UAS Help (Long post!)

[Tommo89]

Dear PPRuners,

Warning: Long post!

From a young age I’ve wanted a career in the armed service. Flying, and aviation in general is my passion so naturally I want to be an RAF pilot. However, bearing in mind how difficult this is to achieve I would happily go into another job within the RAF related to flying. I decided a while back that I wanted to do a degree though - direct entry is hard, most pilots have one and it serves as a back up if you don’t make it.

I recently started at university, (after 3 Cs at A Level in English, Business Studies and Sociology) and went straight to the UAS stand during the fresher’s fair prepared with some research on current affairs, RAF and some history/info on this particular UAS as you’d expect. I dressed smartly and paid attention to ‘manner and impact’, eye contact, polite but not over-familiar etc. The interview went well, and the person that interviewed me seemed impressed with what I had done previously (ATC for 5 years, reached CWO, 2 Flying Scholarships from the cadets and Air League, Duke of Edinburgh’s Award, various camps and work experience within the RAF). It wasn’t really an interview, he just got me to expand a bit more on what I’d put on the form.

I thought this would put me in good stead, although I am fully aware that competition is very tough and that you should avoid focussing on cadet achievements too much because the UAS and ATC is very different - I know the UAS are more interested in leadership skills, potential to become a decent officer etc.

Anyway after the brief interview I was told to expect an email with details of the formal interview. A week and half went by with no response, so I rang them and was told that if I had not received an email then unfortunately my application had been unsuccessful and the only thing I could do was try again next year and hope that I progress a little further than the fresher’s stand!!

I can’t express how much I want to join the UAS, and how disappointed I am. Pretty much everything I’ve done over the years has been to try and improve my chances of getting in, and now it feels like I’ve hit a brick wall and it’s been for nothing! I would give it as much commitment and dedication as I possibly could – I know how valuable the opportunity is, and how much you can gain from it in return.

What’s frustrating is that my friend has been given an interview but has told me many times that he has no intention of joining the armed services (religious/cultural reasons). Of course he will not make this known, and even if he doesn’t get in he’s had the chance of an interview unlike me!

I would imagine that the main reason I’ve not been given an interview is because of my degree. It’s a BSc in Air Transport Management. Perhaps they’ve taken a look at this, and thought it’s too orientated towards the civil aviation market and therefore I have no intention of joining – the placement year probably doesn’t help. This isn’t the case though, the degree is meant to act as my backup plan! It might be that my grades and the way I came across in the interview let me down. I’d be surprised though as I felt it went well. The much longer interview I did at Cranwell recently for my flying scholarship went well, and I managed above average in the aptitude test that I did for my flying scholarship (granted it’s not the full OASC one but still worthy of something?)

The purpose of this post is to ask for any advice, hints or tips you can offer. So far my only idea is to write a letter to OC asking for an interview to go on the reserve list. I know that I’ve been told to wait until next year, but I don’t feel happy just leaving it if there’s something I might be able to do. If I have an interview and get rejected I would accept that, but it feels like I’ve not had a chance. Would writing to him perhaps show some dedication and determination? I don’t want to irritate them by going against what they’ve said... What do you think? Any other ideas? :confused:

Thanks for reading this, and a huge thank you in advance for any contributions. Apologies for the length, but I feel that for any valid contribution you need to be aware of the situation!

[Flap62]

How nice to see a post that is well meant, well written and deserving of proper advice.

For my tuppence worth I think that if you were to write to the CO paraphrasing the above and asking for guidance on anything you might do to improve your chances next time, I cannot think that he could be anything but supportive.

Good luck - I'd give you a chance!!

[Lyco360]

Tommo ready of an equally long reply? First of all sorry to hear you didn't make it into the UAS. Secondly have a look at the OASC candidates and wannabes thread, there is a lot of good advice related to all things RAF recruitment wise that is relevant to getting into the UAS.

You've mentioned it but I can't emphasis how important it is to distance yourself from the superduper keen ATC cadet image. The examples you mentioned on your comment all seem to be ATC. You have to get out and do stuff off your own bat. The ATC will give you plenty of good experiences for comparatively little money but its a double edged sword! Try taking up a team sport through your union, or if you're not into field sports try sailing, or diving (both good examples of teamwork in critical circumstances). Most unions will have clubs for these. Make sure you have as many if not more examples of leadership and teamwork etc etc outside ATC as you have inside.

Secondly; how set are you on Air Transportation Management? I take it you're in your first year. You'll find its often easier once you're in university to transfer to another department. Could you transfer to an established more traditional course? You may well find that would also be of help to you if the RAF fell through completely. Do not believe your tutor when he says a degree is a degree and it doesn't matter what its in or where it comes from. That is no longer the case!

Remember, you can still apply next year, and there is 12 months between now and then which is plenty of time for you to concentrate on getting more diverse activities under your belt!

As for your friend I'd question the extent of his religious and cultural beliefs if he is willing to waive them so easily. If they are indeed that serious he probably won't want to hang around that long! Thats another potential space for you next year!!

Good luck!! Lyco


Edited to say...

I should add that the fact you're on here asking for advice is enough proof that you have the drive to get in, don't get too down hearted. As you've already its a hard path to follow, stick with it!!

[gashman]

Tommo,

I had simialr issues when I tried to get into the UAS. Before we even got an interview, we had to go via the Adj's office to fill in some paper work. He was effectively a fanny filter and sent the hot ladies through and told the likes of me to bog off (no places that year etc etc). That was the end of my first attempt. I spent my first year at uni getting stuck into my degree and planning what to do for my summer hols. As a top tip, do more stuff to further your CV as it is current achievements which will impress, not resting on past laurels. As an example, I got in touch with Camp America and went to work in the States for 8 weeks and went touring after that.

The second year I went to the UAS and got through to the final medical, which I failed on account of eyesight. (As an aside, it must have just been an off day, too little sleep or too much booze the day before maybe...). The only thing left to do was to go and apply to the RAF for a Bursary (my third attempt to get in if you count the Sixth Form Scholarship-which resulted in a Flying Scholarship). Whilst I was away experiencing the "delights" of an American Summer Camp for the second summer in a row, I received a phone call telling me I had been successful.

I spent the last year at university flying loads and having a fantastic time. Once in the UAS, I was told that the main aim for the UAS was not to recruit people into the RAF, but to persuade those uncertain about a career in the RAF to join. As a by-product, high calibre graduates, having spent time in the company of forces personnel, are more likely to be supportive of the forces in their future positions of responsibility. By doing an aeronautical degree and being so obviously geared towards joining the RAF, the selection board for the UAS, may have thought that you are going to join anyway, and decided to try and convince someone else instead.

In summary, don't get focussed on not getting though this time. Try joining some other clubs in the mean time (team sports are always a popular choice, as is skiing and sailing) aiming to impress the RAF board, no the UAS board. Plan something for the summer (like earning cash to show you have a strong work ethic, or charity work to show community spirit).

I know it is depressing not to get through at this hurdle, but it may be that you are so obviously destined to get into the RAF, that they chose not to spend time convincing you to join.

Oh, and after all that hastle to get in and lots of disappointment, I got there in the end and have flown some ace jets in some amazing places; been scared a lot; laughed a lot; met some great lads and lasses. It's worth the set backs, keep knocking at the door, someone will let you in.

GM

[ImageGear]

Get someone to take a poll in a fast jet crewroom as to how many got in to Cranners at the first, second and third attempt, I think you'll be very surprised.

Imagegear

[Irish Tempest]

Why not try RN NCE entry for the Military Aviation Academy? Becoming v popular... nothing ventured nothing gained. The RN's requirement for fast jet drivers is ramping up due to JSF and CVF requirement. Speak to your ACLO for further details. Remember 'you don't need to be a pilot to be in the RAF'... and you don't need to be in the RAF to be a pilot !

Please PM me if you want any further direction wrt aquaints special flying awards etc...

IT

[Melchett01]

That has to rank as one of the best written, most cogent posts I have read for a very long time - especially from one at the start of their prospective career. You are obviously an intelligent individual - either that, or you have a knack for words, in which case you'll find ISS a doddle or end up as a journalist.

I wouldn't be overly worried about an initial rejection; often the important thing is how we react to disappointments. It is very easy when things are going well, not so when they aren't. It's how an individual reacts to those difficulties that marks them out. Keep plugging away, if you really do want it enough, this will be a minor set back, and as has already been stated, there are an awful lot of people sitting around crew rooms who had to apply several times before they were successful. I remember my first AEF flight when I was in ATC. My pilot at the time was a Buccaneer driver and he told me that between him and his last nav they notched up 11 attempts at OASC, and he was told he'd make a 2nd rate Herc nav on a good day with the wind blowing in the right direction. And whilst I breezed through my UAS selection, if you count Flying Scholarships, it took me 3 attempts to get past OASC.

Keep up with the degree, especially if you enjoy it. As far as the RAF are concerned, they really don't care what you do. However, if the RAF doesn't work out for whatever reason you will have it to fall back on.

[noprobs]

First, think about the numbers involved. There are 14 UASs covering the whole of the UK. Each is affiliated to 5 or 6 universities. Most of them have a student establishment of around 75, of which 35 are new members each year. The freshers' fairs produce about 300 expressions of interest for these 35 places, leading to about 60 full interviews for final selection. So the odds against your getting in on this very good deal are considerable; many admirable people don't succeed. So don't feel too bad about it.

Second, consider what UASs are there for. They can give experience of the RAF to new people, they can improve individual skills, and they might attract people to an RAF career. As you have 5 years of ATC experience and 2 flying scholarships behind you, and sound committed to an RAF career, what more can be gained by you or the UAS (funded by the RAF and the defence budget) from your membership?

Finally, look at what to do next. OASC look for rounded individuals with experience of many aspects of life. The UAS selection process follows much of that used by OASC, looking for qualities such as sporting prowess, cultural diversity and sense of adventure. So shop around to see what else you can do at university with this in mind. You can still apply to OASC for direct entry or sponsorship at any time (noting that you are no longer limited in the number of attempts at aptitude tests).

Per Ardua ..... :cool:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Having been involved in recruiting for a UAS I can tell you that the process at Freshers Fair is pretty hit and miss: until you get to the formal, structured process you won't really be subject to an objective assessment.

The chat at Freshers is designed to weed out those candidates who are patently unsuitable: regrettably the shiny keen "I was a CWO" is probably less likely to be selected as they do present themselves, and this is no reflection on you as an individual, as immature, lacking exposure to the big wide world.

The subject of your degree is irrelevant: a balance between the arts, sciences and humanities is always needed and AT Management would not prejudice your application.

The advice about getting out and about and broadening your experience is first rate: join a couple of clubs / societies at Uni and network.

Don't give up or become disheartened: don't distance yourself from your ATC experiences but use them as the building blocks to step up from.

[BluntM8]

Tommo, like yourself I was knocked back when I first applied to join the UAS. At the time I thought it was the end of any hope I had of flying fast jets, but I was wrong. As has been mentioned, you would be amazed how many people were rejected on their first go.

I would echo the advice given above, a polite letter to the UAS squadron commander asking for advice on how to improve your application for the next year would seem sensible. If it's worded anything like as well as your post, then you should do fine.

Don't give up - you stand every chance of success next time around. Best of luck.

Blunty

[TomH1408]

Joining the UAS requires you to have a least 3 semesters left to study at university, it may be that a year placement in a 3 year course (I assume its a 3 year course) somehow disqualifies you from getting a place i.e. only attending for two semesters then going on placement. Someone with a little more knowledge can confirm or deny this but it may be that it was no fault on your part that you didnt get in it but the timings of your course. As everyone said keep trying dont let this setback get you down too much.

[Double Zero]

Tommo,

My best wishes for your future, strikes me you're the sort of person worth their weight in gold, rather than the " who is your father, which hunt does he ride with ? " set !

The above comment about going the Fleet Air Arm way may have a lot going for it, though my impression from the outside is that one may have to put up with even more B.S. than the R.A.F; though ship-board deployments seem quite short duration at the moment ( with Afghanistan as the alternative, but by the time you are qualified anything could be happening ).

I'm not R.A.F, but reading the above posts could certainly help on the sailing side, especially if you're vagueley near the English south coast.

I used to have a chum who was known for larking about at BAe, and had a sometimes rather flippant attitude, though keen on the Territorial Army where I suspect he did rather well.

I have a team photo' of him striking his 'Roman Pose' next to me on early Harrier GR5 trials...

He's a Wing Commander now !

Good luck, and the offer stands re. sailing club.

[Laird 'o' Balmullo]

I fully agree with the above comments, join some clubs, get stuck into your degree, etc.

I too applied, keen as mustard but pretty niave, to join the UAS during my first year at Uni unsucsessfully. I cannot say I had the best interview bit nevertheless, it was dissapointing not to be accepted. When it came to applying to join the RAF, having not been in the UAS and indeed making that clear at the AFCO, in no way put me at a disadvantage, and I sucsessfully got though OASC.

The UAS, just like the ATC, is very much a recruiting tool for the Air Force, that is its purpose. Without being too censorious, the UAS is pretty much like any other University Club or Society - a drinking club, although slightly more formal, I'll admit.

Anyway in an end to this ramble, The important thing - Do you want a career in the RAF? It appears that you do. It so, a setback like this is more likely to be benifical to you when you go to Cranwell for four-days-of-fun at the end of your degree.

Good luck, and enjoy University!

[airborne_artist]

Irish Tempest wrote:

Why not try RN NCE entry for the Military Aviation Academy?

but Tommo89 had already said: "I recently started at university"

Mutually exclusive, IT, as you can't do the FAA in-Service degree if you already have one, and we hope/expect that Tommo will complete his course.

Tommo - my advice - join one of RAuxAF, TA or RNR. You can not get mobilised from TA etc. as an undergrad, you'll learn a lot about military life, and when you get to OASC you'll have good story to tell.

A good mate of mine was in 21 while at uni, and walked OASC as his leadership skills were clear. Got chopped F3 and went Chinook, so his green knowledge came in handy after all :E

[Cattivo]

Tommo

To boost your chances even more, the new ruling is that you DO NOT have to have 3 semesters left ie final year studes are eligible.

noprobs post is spot on by the way.

Apply again, which will show you're keenness and go out and do stuff this year to boost your cv for next year.

[orca]

When I was at university the crabs that had got sponsorship were made to join the UAS. (Which was, obviously, also made to accept their presence - quite a bitter pill to swallow in a couple of cases....I would imagine!)

My point is, could this chap/ chapess not apply to OASC, VFR DCT - then be placed into the UAS by default when successful? Imagine, if you will, you are the boss of said UAS. You get a telephone call to say "Your QFI rejected me, but i am still absolutely dead set on joining up, can you give me some pointers?" - followed shortly by "Hello, OASC here, you have a new bursar". Might also be fun to see the selection officer at OASC when this bright young chap pitches up, does wonderfully, then points out that the UAS wouldn't have him/her?

Keen on joining up? Fill out the forms and have a go. The worst that could possibly happen is that you give a very clear demonstration that you mean what you say! Lots of chaps seem to get bunched about an incremental form of joining up, starting with cub scouts, cadets, Womens' Auxiliary.. etc etc.

Not really necessary - and i can vouch for all the posts above which allude to the fact that there might not be a direct correlation between UAS flying and current occupation!

Best of luck.

[BEagle]

The interview went well, and the person that interviewed me seemed impressed with what I had done previously (ATC for 5 years, reached CWO, 2 Flying Scholarships from the cadets and Air League, Duke of Edinburgh’s Award, various camps and work experience within the RAF). It wasn’t really an interview, he just got me to expand a bit more on what I’d put on the form.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

Perhaps the fact that you'd already had 2 flying scholarships might have worked against you? 'Over qualified' for the new dumbed-down UAS syllabus?

Good luck and keep trying!

I was a UAS recruiter once. It was obvious to me that the students were pretty good at working out who would fit in with the UAS way of life best, so I involved the senior folk at Freshers' Fairs. They would also see off the utterly unsuitable in a rather more robust way than we were permitted to. When the forms came in, there was a secret pencil code on the top right corner which gave me a pretty accurate thumbnail of the applicant - so I would then 'arrange' the 2-man interviews accordingly, or so they hoped. For example, a number of spots meant 'A bit of a spotter', 'J' meant it was some young lady they'd cornered who they wanted the Junta to interview, 'D' meant Daddy was in the RAF etc etc.

But actually that was all a bit of a laugh - all interviewees were of course treated the same. And we didn't always use the 'which way is the pen pointing' decision making method either, although it was fun twiddling pens around to see whether the students had briefed the applicant and to watch his/her reaction!

I'll never forget my first interview - the applicant could bore for Britain! Heaven know how he was ever accepted for interview; I did the first half and handed over to my more experienced colleague for the second half whilst I read what he'd written..."Has all the animation of a stuffed cabbage without any of the virtues".

Despite what some might think, UAS interviews are very honest.

Although one UAS boss was rather startled when he asked "You've heard what the UAS can do for you, what do you have to offer?" to a female candidate. Whereupon she said "Let me show you" - and peeled off her clothes. He'd been set up by the QFIs who'd hired a professional stripper; she actually did pretty well at the interview as well, I gather, and she thought it a great giggle. Obviously this was all in the days before the PC-miseries began to hold sway!

[Flik Roll]

OP,

Do not let it dishearten you. Why not give OASC a bash? That way if things go well you are on the UAS regardless and if they don't; well you'll have something to go on for your second attempt nearer to the end of your degree and if by that time you are on the UAS you will get a lot of help and advice and you can miss out the AFCO bit as well. The aptitude testing rules have recently changed (no longer 2 attempts but as many as like given that you are under tha age limit and they are sat a year apart. UAS studes can even go down for the weekend to just do aptitude, so don't worry about using up your '2 lives')

Crack on with extra-curricular clubs; drop the Air Cadet stuff (I know for a fact that those that can't move on from the ATC do struggle and get a lot of banter.... we had one who was still doing LL duties and on the UAS!)

You may also want to think up some good answers because I have a feeling the degree may have been a sway there especially if you are uber keen on flying; they'll put 2 and 2 together and think you're after a cheap PPL which is why I think the bursary route may be a good idea as others have quite rightly suggested.

May I ask, which UAS was it? PM me the answer if you want. Good luck, at least you can do English good and proper like :} And you have the motivation. I'm sure TPD will be along shortly to show you how much motivation can do for you WRT the UAS/RAF. Also why not hop over to thestudentroom.co.uk and then find the Armed Forces forum? Massive UAS thread over there etc.

[muppetofthenorth]

As has been said, not the end of the world by any means. I got turned down in my first year, but reapplied the next and went on to have 3 extremely successful years out at Woodvale.

One friend of mine was turned down at his first try, only to get on the following year and is now the Senior Student.


And, incidentally, we had a Bursar join the sqn recently who was still so heavily involved with their ATC commitments that they never turned up to sqn activities and was chopped within a matter of months.