RAF gnd ops and EU Ops 1

[c130jbloke]

Hi all,

I have been asked a question about the above. With Air Tanker soon to start ops at BZZ, what problems would there be with combining the provisions regarding Flt / Gnd / Trg ops within a civil document (EU Ops 1) to fit the military application (with current RAF regs) and therefore achieve the associated approvals ? Or is this a case of chicken and egg, or (err) egg and chicken

Any views or opinions would be appreciated or direction to a relevant document.

Thanks in advance,

C130Jbloke

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C130JBloke

I know of AirTanker- but not much about it; the first question that comes to mind, is the AirTanker operation going to be conducted under a civilian Air Operator Certificate (AOC) or not? I assume here it is, otherwise I suspect you wouldn't be asking the question. But EUOPS1 1.001 does state that it does not apply to aeroplanes used in military operations- so I'm not sure what angle you're coming from.

However, if it is under civy regs you wouldn't be including any procedures in EUOPS1 itself as this is the operating rules and requirements; however, the requirment for an civil air operator to have an Operations Manual (and I use the term to include all volumes of the Ops Manual) is where the SOP's would be defined. First take a look at EUOPS 1.175 and SUBPART P 1.1040 regarding operating manuals.

The operating rules of JAROPS and the new EUOPS generally govern the way the operator will conduct operations, however- there is scope for an operator to agree with the regulator (the CAA in our case) a set of SOP's which are acceptable to the authority- which is actually what happens when the Ops Manual is submitted to the authority prior to getting an AOC.

In the first instance, I would speak with the CAA Flight Operation Inspector who has oversight of the program and discuss just what it is you would wish to include or vary. Considering the special nature of the AirTanker program and its military application- I would think that they would find a way to dovetale your RAF requirements alongside the EUOPS rules into the AirTanker Operation Manual and SOP's.

[c130jbloke]

Hi,

Yup, exactly right.. The jets will be used for Air to Air refuelling one day and then (possibly) charter runs the next. With a combination of mil and civvy crews, what is the best way to proceed regarding compliance to the relevant regulations ?

A bunch of us sat around and got nowhere fast trying to work it out - hence the questions.

With regard to AAR and troop runs to AFG - pretty straightforward go with the RAF rules, but with a civvy company running RAF ac and possibly employed in commercial routes also all we saw was grey upon grey when looking at the rules.

Also is EU Ops 1 chopping to some EASA document in the future too ? (we are mil types:ugh: talk about the EU and we think of cows)

Thanks,

C130JB

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C130Jbloke

I think one has to differentiate between civilian ops and mil ops- one is governed by State legislation- Air Navigation Order - EUOPS etc. and the other by your RAF rules and SOP's. In the commercial role I can't see you getting away from the civy AOC requirements- and that would include your Ops manuals, SOP's and aircraft maintenance and aircrew requirements. However, it might be that you could establish a procedure whereby you step out of the commerical role and operate to RAF Military SOP's when engaged in the air to air tankering role or for any mil ops for that matter- and I said earlier- EUOPS does not apply to military operations.

However, I can envisage an issue with maintenance, not my area but I suspect that could prove problematic in some areas.

My first instinct is to say the two roles won't mix. The complications of having civilian pilots and military pilots flying together in commercial ops are considerable- unless, your AirTanker RAF pilots are licensed, rated and trained to commercial AOC SOP's standards, and meet all the flight time limitation requirements etc.

Actually, C130Jbloke- the more I think about it, I don't think you can find the answers without the involvment of the AirTanker commercial operations team and the CAA flight ops people. In particular with your plans for the aircrew, both pilots and cabin. So many issues are starting to come to mind, I'd be here all night.

A pal of mine was involved with the BAe bid some years ago so I have some insight into the program, we actually discussed these issue back then- I would have thought that the commercial ops people would have worked this through with the CAA by now. There are always ways and means but, you won't get them yourself without the CAA involved, at least for the commercial side of the operation.

Just had another thought; you might want to think about the insurance implications of this. For example, the procedure of changing from commercial to mil role might need a notification procedure/acknowledgement by them. Don't neglect this one.

[c130jbloke]

Err OK and thanks :ok:

This will keep the crewroom lawyers going for ages !!!!

Thanks again.