1 Time forming a Union

[1 Timing Ghost]

To all,

The pilot body at 1Time have finally come together, in numbers, to start a formal 1Time pilots union, or two.

We are in due process at the moment for formal recognition.

Due to the company and various management figures failing to listen to the body of pilots who work long hrs and get paid minimal salaries with little to no benefits (their salaries were ok 3 years ago, now we are the lowest paid in the industry).

A time has come when us the fraternity who keep everybody else at 1Time in work, to make some positive changes for everybody, both financially and legally.

One can't play the arguement anymore that its 'their' company and they can do what they want. 1 Time is a listed company on the JSE with shareholders (some are pilots) who have vested interests in this company and im sure would be more than happy to see a company perform better than it is at the moment.

The pilots also have a huge vested interest, in being part of a growing company. For many 1Time has become home and is no longer seen as a stepping stone. The pilots see a future and are willing to stick it out. 1Time is going places and to go places, they need Pilots.

1 Time would not be where it is today if it were not for the hard working Pilots who have done a lot, maybe too much, without much recognition in the form of benefits, better working conditions & financial gain.

The bottom line; The basics are not being met.

If any of you have any input and ideas, we would be grateful for your assistance. :ok:

Thanks

[Lynessa]

I was under the impression that jobs for pilots are falling out of trees.
Why would you want to go to all this trouble if you can move on.

[JMSP]

Sadly, this will probably be the beginning of the end.
The friction between crew and management is going to be wild.
Good time to get our CV's into the market as this will sinks us for sure.

[rudder hard over]

If I may answer the above, 1-Time is unique in that the standards are high, the vibe is young and healthy and why move somewhere else where its all yes sir no sir, 3 bags full sir. Makes sense for some, to stay in a healthy growing airline and adress the salary issues, rather than move on! Unions sorted out many salary issues at some other Airlines, both in SA around the world. If 50% + 1 belong to the union, the pilot body has a say according to law. Makes sense to me

[Sir Osis of the river]

Excuse me Rudder Hard Over but,

One Time, and I know them personally are not unique. Flitestar, Whom I knew, and I assume Sunnair and Nationwide, were young, dynamic and ready take on the market. They were all get up and go airlines and the staff, from Aircrew to groundstaff were more than willing to go the extra mile to make it work and yes, secure their jobs. In the end could the unions protect them??

Are any of them still around?.....NO

(However, in their demise, the union did get us a three month settlement.)

So, while I am glad the crew of 1 Time have formed a union, and I wish them all the best, I think this is the beginning of the end.

[flux]

Personally I don't believe it is the beginning of the end. Maybe a start of a very mutually beneficial relationship. There is no doubt of the need for a union at 1Time, as there will only be one voice to negotiate, winge etc. Management and pilots should all embrace this, because it is a tool that should serve both parties. In the same breath, why not air our dirty laundry in the Sunday Times (I am a 1Timer). There is a thread on SAA at the moment, and their union. I have not seen them trying to negotiate on pprune. Neuter has any one of their flying fraternity called any of their management names on here. Come on guys, lets sort our crap out, we don't need to sink to this!

[imustbemad]

This is long overdue. Posting this on prune is the only way to get our dearly beloved management to get their heads out their a$$es and sit up and pay some attention! It can’t , however, be guaranteed that they won’t spend more time trying to rout the posters here than on the issues at hand!
Some things are more important than reserved parking bays!
It is laughable to think that forming a union will cause the demise of the airline. Market forces will be responsible for that, not wage negotiations.
To suggest that pilots leave if they are not happy at 1time, is deplorable and smacks of a management comment. 1time has lost too many pilots since it started and it makes a refreshing change in this industry to find those that want to stay and at the same time improve conditions for their fellow pilots. Can you imagine if every industry were to have the “if you don’t like it , leave” attitude, it wouldn’t be long before there were no pax to fill the planes as they had all pi$$ed off to greener pastures. You must have your head further up than I thought!!!
Good luck to the union and those of you big enough to take on the smiling assassin. The only thing he values more than his bulging wallet is stepping on his pilots.

[f18]

the management at 1 time that is the top management is ok its the lower man that really need to wake up.They are so busy trying to ass creep that the bbc africa cant even fly ,well what else do you expect from a frustrated flight engineer,and as for mr harrison well he does not give a dame as long as the money keeps coming .Guys get the union going or they will screw you big time.big fish in a small pond that is them.

[Cue Ball]

Sir Osis

I am trying to understand your post and as far as I can deduce you say Flitestar and Nationwide folded because of the pilots forming a union. I don't think so , we have a few ex Nationwide guys at 1 Time and they say that forming a union actually got them a salary increase and improved their working conditions. Seeing as you think forming a pilot union would be the beginning of the end of 1 Time I would love to know what alternative you suggest in order for the pilots to be able to negotiate better working conditions, and how you came to the conclusion that forming a union will bring the airline to its knees. I wait with bated breath!:hmm:

[Doodlebug2]

Why not chat to ALPA-SA and ask for some advice/assistance. Good luck, exciting times ahead!:ok:

[boyracer]

I have worked for both types of airline, one with a very strong union and one without, The unionized airline is fantastic its like your own big brother is watching over you. I can imagine how difficult it is to get your union going , the most important thing is to have almost 100% membership.This union will make 1time better for all. go for it its worth it. Well done to those who have started the union it takes big round things to do it :D

[myfivecents]

I believe you must pursue this option - its the only way to get a hold of things.The oil price will forever be the reason you dont get a salary increase. The current Rand/ Dollar will be added to the excuse no doubt.
I see the following obstacle for you though:
Management will limit you by splitting the in - house guys and the Apbco guys. They will try and prevent Apbco members from having any say on the grounds of not being in the full time employ of 1Time.Interesting times ahead.
Unfortunately BBC Africa will never do anything for the pilots-too busy keeping management happy. Fatal that he is not looking after the pilots interests.But I suppose he has to be management orientated otherwise he would lose his Director status.Clever again of management.

I will follow this thread with interest.

Regarding the demise of Sun Air and Fitestar- it had nothing to do with the union. Flitestar's demise was caused by political interference to my knowledge and Coleman Andrews cleverly "bought" and then closed Sun Air down to steal the local market share that they enjoyed. The union had no say-there wasnt time;it closed within 2 days!

[Shrike200]

Any manager who views a union as the 'great enemy' clearly has a lot to hide. They should be welcoming a two way communication channel that allows differences to be settled and binding agreements to be made. It works both ways.

Nationwide's union managed to slowly chip away, and it made a difference. Guys, it's a good thing. Do it - don't expect miracles, take a diplomatic and long term view, and you can bring both sides to the table and make a better place for all. Good luck. People who argue that one should just 'move on', clearly haven't reached the point in their life where stability is important. There's nothing wrong with trying to improve the place where you work, to the benefit of all; indeed it's an honourable attitude - it shows that you see the good, you'd like to stay, but there are some problems you'd like to see sorted out. Good for you.

[DropTheDunlops]

Why not chat to ALPA-SA and ask for some advice/assistance. Good luck, exciting times ahead!

Best advice given by DoodleBug. ALPA have been through this before with Nationwide(NAPA) and Mango(MAPA). NAPA fought Nationwide management in court and won the case for full recognition. Because of the outcome of the case, MAPA received recognition from their management and are well on their way to success. ALPA have all the resources and experience in the aviation industry.

Nationwide's union managed to slowly chip away, and it made a difference.

NAPA did manage to eventually negotiate better salaries, jumpseat policies, overall better working conditions for the pilots. They were just about to sign a regulating agreement and a roster rules agreement before NTW shut shop. All the agreements were drafted by ALPA and were based on SAA's and SAX's. NTW was going to be a hybrid of these airlines.

So what I'm trying to say is, don't waste your time with other "unions", approach ALPA and get professional guidance and benefit from years of experience!!!

[Pitch&Fan]

How about obtaining the draft NAPA / NTW recognition (regulating) agreement from one of the ex-NTW chaps. Make the required changes, consult with ALPA-SA about the legal mumbo-jumbo, and get to the negotiating table ASAP.

Might just save you guys a lot of time and trouble?

Good luck. This is never easy.

[dendronite]

Good luck. This is never easy.

It will take courage, patience, effort and perseverence to get things in order. The end of the day I think 1 time is a great company with lots of potential. Not witout its problems of course:{

[DropTheDunlops]

How about obtaining the draft NAPA / NTW recognition (regulating) agreement from one of the ex-NTW chaps.


I can help you with that. PM me and I'll forward those agreements to you. You'll need the legal advice from Jacques at ALPA though - he knows what he's talking about.

Good luck guys.

[CJ750]

Who is this BBC Africa at 1 Time

[myfivecents]

That be the Chief Pilot. :}

[nopoal]

Hi to all!!!

I know that is a bit off topic, but are they hiring pilots? Any chance for expats? Any email to send resumes?

Thanks

:ok:

[Jangys]

Does not suprize me.....that this is happening. The ever struggeling airline community gets another blow from their own staff. :=

Maybe every single employee "including crew" should put more effort into making the airline survive these trying times.

We all have to tighten the belt, do you think "crew" is the only sufferers within your organization??? :confused:

:yuk:

The demise of 1-Time will leave even a bigger smile on the faces of Mango and SAA.....come on people......

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

[Setron]

Hey Jangys!

Either you are "BBC Africa" or you are so far up his bum that you both speak with the same voice...:yuk:

[Slave to Love]

I am one of the esteemed members of the 1Time frat. and it's great to see that people can voice their opinions without reprise. We are after all a democracy and each individual is allowed their say, no matter what.

Democracy is about the freedom of speech and it's up to the "other" individuals to see this as well. Every person is entitled to voice their concerns and ideas, without any form of victimisation.

The article I see has been posted to create discussion and debate, however "hot" it is, both positive or negative, so as to build a platform of information. It is a simple tool for debate. I can already see people bringing emotion into the picture outside this forum, don't.

Thats why its called PPRUNE (its the new worlds secret weapon for democracy and World order).

I think its great that some of the guys at 1Time are putting some form of recognition together;it means the guys will hopefully start to work as a team. Nothing really gets done if people act alone. So be a team and a 1Time team at that.

For those who don't know the meaning of the word 'team', please look it up in the Oxford Dictionary. (bit of sarcasm for the select few)

I would like to add that is is imperative for all involved to work together and strive for better things. This is called team playing. It is not seen in typical form in the aviation industry, so its a pretty new concept for some of us.

Guys keep it professional and above board and I am sure through time, issues will be worked out. Let the guys handling the negotiations and union stuff, do their jobs. They know what they are doing and doing it for all concerned, which includes management.

Good luck and enjoy the ride

STL

p.s for those of you who take this thread personal, maybe you should check with your local AVMED, for possible blood pressure issues ;)

[Setron]

Very emotional and inspiring, STL!:{
... but you forgot to say AMEN!

AMEN! :)

[Jangys]

I am not even familiar with BBC Africa - who-ever he is..... I have no ties with 1 Time......

So, go bark up his tree "Setron" not mine.

Man.....!!!

or you are so far up his bum that you both speak with the same voice...
:yuk::yuk::yuk:


No wonder...