Formation Flying question

[MadsDad]

Hopefully there is someone here who can settle a pub argument, before it turns into a full-scale brawl. The argument is about the numbering of the aircraft in a 'diamond nine'. The general consensus is the formation is:-

. 1
. 2 3
. 4 5 6
. 7 8
. 9

but I have reason to believe it may be:-

. 1
. 2 3
. 6 5 4
. 7 8
. 9

Can anyone who knows confirm which is right please.

(And the thing looked ok when I sent it. Damn editor keeps shifting it left on the line).

[5 Forward 6 Back]

Last time I was involved in one, you had 3 sections:

1
32

45

6
87
9

Which form a 9 thus:

1
32
465
87
9

But I know at least one unit that does it differently.

[newt]

1
3 2
5 4 6
7 8
9



Seems to ring a bell!!

[MadsDad]

Thanks for your responses gents.

From the sounds of this everybody is going to have to buy everybody else a drink. :ok:

[Madbob]

As I have a non FJ background and it was a long time ago anyway, can someone in the know explain in a tactical low level cross-over, who goes high and who goes low? I seem to recall that the guy on the left stayed low and that the guy on the right went high.

This makes sense in a side-by-side cockpit as in the Vampire, JP or Hunter T7/T8 with P1 sitting on the left but I may have got this wrong. Might be the reason why I was sent Group 2!

MB

[FILYSI]

1
32
645
98
7

[6foottanker]

Madbob,

I too eventually went 2 Gp, but I seem to recall it all involved lots of " chicken...tikka...masalla"! Perhaps I ended up in the right place then.:ok:

[threeputt]

In my experience the crew initiating the turn avoided the other ac. Bit more "A" level when doing night /IMC parallel track though, with "box" turns and the like.

3P:ok:

[PPRuNeUser0211]

outside man avoids... and if there is no outside man "tac-wingman" avoids

is my understanding.... (although I've had two near misses as "tac-lead" so perhaps my word is best not taken!)

[BOAC]

In my day (yes, i know...), from below, Arrows had

. 1
. 2 3
.4 6 5
. 8 9
. 7

Cross-overs used to be 'outside over'

[H Peacock]

Seem to recall 3456 states 'evens on the right and odds on the left' ie

1
3 2
5 6 4
7 8
9

Believe the 'experts' swap 7 & 9 and use:

1
3 2
5 6 4
9 8
7

All shown from above!

[TruBlu351]

It starts off as a basic 4 ship building block.

1
3 2
4

4 is the slot guy who sits behind #1. Note that #2 is on #1's right. General rules is #2 sits on lead's right.

Add the wingers 5 & 6 join in (general rule evens on right) so....

1
3 2
5 4 6

Then the rules progresses, evens on right with 9 as another slot filler!

1
3 2
5 4 6
7 8
9

Regarding tactical turns, general rule is lead #1 is the lowest guy in the formation, but the person turning first has the option to go high or low depending on terrain. Over flat terrain, I would expect lead to stay low and wing to go high (only slightly).

Once this initial high or low "trend" has been set (by the person turning first), then the other person does the opposite for deconfliction.

However, the contract always applies, 4 avoids 3 avoids 2 avoids 1!!

[davejb]

On the Nimrod we used to go:

1 2
3
(4.5)
6 7
8 9
10
11
12
13

- if that's any help?

(4,5 - when we changed formation the beams would move back to acoustics...and 13 would be in the galley filling the teapot).

[Two's in]

It's much easier with today's Defence Budget...


1

[ShortFatOne]

DJB

Please stop making me choke on my coffee!:ok:

You could have added that on some flights (when the P1/N1 felt brave enough);

21
3
(4.5)
76
8
9
10
11
12
13

[Dimmer Switch]

Or, again on the Mighty Hunger, on long transits, once Biggles had it all nicely trimmed out:

1
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13

Followed by the dynamic cross-over to:

1
.
.2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Ah, we knew how to have fun in them days !

[davejb]

...not forgetting the '12 people hiding from the copilot in the toilet on intercom' gag....

[BOAC]

Hopefully there is someone here who can settle a pub argument, before it turns into a full-scale brawl. The argument is about the numbering of the aircraft in a 'diamond nine'.

Now look what you've done! They'll be posting their lunch menus soon....

[Dan Winterland]

Or the C130 at El Centro.


2
4












1 3 5

[BEagle]

Presumably that Mighty Muncher reference to all the back end sharing the lavatory together was actually:

1
.......
2 3 4......etc

Quite common on a certain squadron.......

[Loopdeloop]

I seem to remember the Tristar having a somewhat unconventional formation makeup when doing tanker trails which I'm having difficulty portraying using a traditional keyboard.

[Busta]

Wingman avoids, 'twas ever thus!

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.

[Zoom]

Distilling this discussion down a little, have I got it right so far:

In my day
I would expect
to have fun
sharing the lavatory together.
I'm having difficulty
from above
I've had two near misses.
I seem to remember
It's much easier
from below -
a somewhat unconventional formation.
I ended up in the right place
the back end -
another slot filler.
I may have got this wrong
so perhaps my word is best not taken,
'twas ever thus!

If so, remind me not to go formation flying with any of you lot!

[PPRuNeUser0211]

I'm pretty sure being able to cobble that lot together says more about the reader than the authors....

[Zoom]

Took ages. Not worth the trouble, then?

:{