war zone "Search and rescue"

[joesoap123]

Hi Guys,

I am flying into Iraq for a air freight company.
It was said to me when hired that there will be "search and rescue" offered in Iraq however this has been neglected by the company and we are told not to persue the issue or get another job.
Companies who fly into war zones like iraq ,should be expected to have a private security company offer search and rescue for downed crew.
This should be stated in a written contract.
Although very expensive it could save the lives of the crews and avoid them ending up on "You tube" under "beheadings".

I know that the US/ allied forced are not obliged to conduct "search and rescue" thus at this stage , many crew flying into this war zones are left to their own devices if downed.
Clients pay excessively to the companies flying into Iraq however this does not always filter through to the pilots.

Any thoughts on this matter.

[ONKYO]

Are you worried about engine failures or surface to air threat ????

If its the latter then a quick recap of whats out there :

Apart from light arms fire during t/o and landing and mortors on the ground we have the good old MANPADS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MANPADS).

There are many out there but here are probibly the 2 most common in Iraq.

1) The American FIM-92 Stinger, The FIM-92B can attack a/c at a range of up to 15,700 feet (4,800 m) and at altitudes between 600 and 12,500 feet (180 and 3,800 m)

file:///C:/Windows/TEMP/moz-screenshot-1.jpgfile:///C:/Windows/TEMP/moz-screenshot-2.jpghttp://home.nycap.rr.com/mismedia/SAM/SAM%20Use%20in%20Current%20Terrorist%20Operations_files/stinger%2818%29.jpeg

or Most probilbly the Russian SA-7 Grail,The maximum range and altitude of these missiles were consistently underestimated in the West. For example, although an altitude limit of 1,500' was widely quoted, an SA-7 hit an Omani jet (in 1974) at 11,500 feet.
http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/j/SA-7.jpg
Most importantly is the history of the the SA-7 Grail, The missile has seen use in a large number of conflicts.Between first firing and June 1970 the Egyptian army fired 99 missiles resulting in 36 hits. Syrian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria) forces shot down 11 Israel aircraft with an unspecified number of missiles in 1974.North Vietnam forces achieved 204 hits out of 589 firings against US, aircraft all would have had counter measures and wraning systems.

During the Rhodesian Bush war (1964 - 1979) terrorists utilised the Strela against unarmed civilian aircraft and brought down two Vickers Viscount passenger aircraft belonging to Air Rhodesia. There was great loss of life.

A missile was fired on a DHL airbus leaving Baghdad in 2003 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident), striking and forcing it to crash land.

al Qaeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda) is said to have produced an hour-long training video on how to use SA-7s.

Welcome to Iraq my friend ............................

[theRealFlyingNomad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUhnEQZBmz4

I think we are out of the initial topic, but well, this is always interesting to know what kind of snake is able to bite your a*s...

You know, if the Yanks do hire so many contract companies into Iraq and Afghanistan, it is also because you will not hear about a South-African or South American Civil plane beeing shot down, in the US news...or just between the Weather of today and the last Football match results...

The public opinion in USA is more and more against the War that any "Yank" aircraft shot down over there wouldn't help the senate to smile in front of angry familes....

So WHY should the Army send a Combat Search and Rescue unit to go and seek for you....

No mate...you are alone..and I actually wonder why do you guys still accept to take part in this whole S*it in which we have NOTHING to do....and even more for such small cash...

Who will be the one bringing the rest of your cold body to your parents...

We are civilians...not Military freaks...

Good luck anyway...

[unstable load]

Joesoap,

A company flying into there will be getting paid handsomely for the job. If they have chosen to do nothing about the possibility of your getting downed there, then at least they should let some of that moola filter down to you guys.

Personally though, I would not bother showing up to work for a bunch whose policy is

not to persue the issue or get another job.



and I would take their advice re the job.

I don't know if you have been shot at, it's nothing like the movies. Adrenaline is brown. There are better ways of trying to make a buck, they just take longer, but at least you will most likely be around to spend it.

[Doodlebug2]

Easy Joesoap, don't go..:=

[startvalveopen]

Not much happening in Iraq now. Been flying there for almost 8 mths now. I have never felt threatned whatsoever. I can promise you that it is safer living on BIAP surrounded by the US military than living at home.:{

Gives live a bit of a sharper edge too.Dont tell you're mother though!:ugh:

[theRealFlyingNomad]

Ok, I know we don't wear kaki's..But as a reference, and because I'm much more into military stuff than civilian: if you check in "Air Force Monthly" mag, the amount of Aircraft beeing shot down every month into Iraq (including UAV that are also powered by Turboprob engines), this is pretty scary.

How many take off's did you do there? 10-100-1000? even more maybe...Do you have any sensor on board? any Chaft/Flare dispenser pod attached on the belly of your nice toy? Any Kevlar re-enforced cokpit? no I guess..(actually, the Voyageur DHC-7 operating for the Dutchs in Afganistan has one..so was the Denim Air Fokker 50 flying for the Norwegian Army out of Kabul )

So how many time have you been "painted" without even noticing it...
Com'on mate, Iraq is No joke, and when all of the Warning and Caution Panel of what used to be your plane will turn into a fantastic Christmas tree, It will be too late to think if yes or no it was a good idea to accept to fly "some stuff" for "Freight companies", for so litle money, and into a War Zone!

And if you feel cool at the bar after your two months tour, trying to impress the chiks with your great War story, just avoid to tell them that all you do there is fueling the War, in the name of the US Mobility Air Command...of Uncle Sam's Oil buisness...

Anyway, Good luck mate...

[joesoap123]

Not feeling threatened does not mean there is no real threat.
Maybe you are a bit out of touch with what is happening around you?This is Iraq we are talking about.
You may have a change of this feeling once your engine stops and you have to land somewhere "safe" and unsecured with no search and rescue.

I feel much safer at home than in any military base, especially one in Iraq.
But thats only me.

If there is no danger as you say, why do you say: "life gets a sharper edge" ?

I think the issue is company obligation and responsibity toward their employees to have systems in place to reduce their risk within limits.
If a construction worker feels safe without his helmet on site, does that relieve the construcion company of their safety obligations?

The issue is :
At present, there is no "search and rescue" facility in place for many pilots flying into Iraq because it is too expensive for the companies.:=

[theRealFlyingNomad]

By the way...
If you survive the impact with the ground, may I suggest you to run away as far as you can from your doomed aircraft (don't forget to take the ELT with, to will give you a sense of "hope" they will come and help you)...

The reason?
Easy: What do you fly? (please, don't tell me "mail for the yanks".I guess you fly for the Deutch "red and yellow" post, only them accept to deliver civil freight into War Zone)
So you (as I did too) probably have been checking what exactly you carry on board of your machine. Do you? yes you do, and if you don't know yet, please next time before to depart on your journey to Saddam's playground, take a few minuts to check what is labelled on your parcels.
"Raytheon Aircraft" is one of the exemple I do remember of. Who is Raytheon? yes, they build the Beech 1900D, sure.
But when you see the price written on the box, and the very few amount of C-12 (King Air 200 and 1900 in military version) flying for the USAF, and ESPECIALLY when you know that Raytheon Aircraft is the biggest provider of missiles and Laser kits of Uncle Sam's army, you might start to concider twice going with all of that crap into what used to be a Beautiful Iraq.

So I tell you what might happen if you end up on the ground with what used to be your plane: Up there somewhere a guy is going to call in his cokpit "Bombs Away...Bombs Away.." ...then the nice whisling sound of a GBU-16 (or a new JDAM maybe, never saw it in real yet, might me pretty cool too) will arise your attention when the US Mobilty Air Command (for who you have been risking your balls) will use one of the kit you delivered to them a few month earlier, to guide a Paveway down to the rest of your plane and burst it into thousand of pieces unusable by Iraqi Rebels (on a military way, or propaganda way...)

You play by the rules...

Enjoy your next trip ma Boet...

[Golf_Seirra]

Skylink had a private helicopter of their's go down and the Americans were more than happy to send some of their guys to go and pick up the Russian / British crew. Almost seemed like they were bored...

Admittedly, was not too far out of town....

You should have a good chance of getting their help as long as you carry someting of value to them in yours.....KBR pax gets you good "brownnie" points.

Viva Los Badbag. :oh:

[DHC8-FO]

Here's an idea...

If it freaks you out, then don't go fly there......?.....

And the US Military will only come help you out if they have the resources to spare at that particular time.......