Top UK FTO says "BA do not accept modular pilots, EVER"

[flyhigh747]

flyhigh747 was recently informed of a predicament.
flyhigh 747 was told that one training along the Modular path, would be rejected from future employment with the UK's flagship carrier regardless of hours and experience.
flyhigh747 knew that the carrier would not accept Modular trainees from any FTO and knew that they only accept a certain few from the 'top 4' as low hour self sponsored direcy entry pilots on the integrated course.
flyhigh747 was, understandably, fairly perplexed and put-out.

Is this true or indeed just a rumour? Discuss, and hopefully the wolves of pprune will have their fun.

[overstress]

Speak in English and stop using the 3rd person and then I might be in a position to reply to you.

[RED WINGS]

I know plenty of Mod guys who are working for BA now!

[Alex Whittingham]

Untrue. You would be surprised how many long serving BA pilots come from the JAA modular or old CAA 'self-improver' routes.

When BA were last recruiting they took direct entry pilots (DEPs) from either integrated or modular backgrounds without distinction. The requirement for DEPs was, I recall, 500 hours plus in commercial operations. They also recruited some ex-military pilots in relatively small numbers.

What they wouldn't do is take in modular trained pilots without experience, although they would take similar integrated cadets.

So, no. Taking the modular route does not automatically bar you from working for BA but it's not going to be your first job.

[mini-jumbo]

As Alex has said, they will not take low hours modular pilots. Once you've got the required experience, then the route you took to get that experience (i.e. modular or integrated) is of no particular interest.

[Artificial Horizon]

ARTIFICIAL HORIZON WAS A MODULAR STUDENT!
ARTIFICIAL HORIZON NOW WORKS FOR BA!
ARTIFICIAL HORIZON KNOWS NOT OF SUCH A RULE!
ARTIFICIAL HORIZON KNOWS THAT MODULAR STUDENTS ARE NOT ACCEPTED STRAIGHT FROM FLIGHT SCHOOL (NEED EXPERIENCE TO JOIN AS A DEP)
ARTIFICIAL HORIZON IS NOW WONDERING WHAT THE F**K HE IS ON ABOUT:eek:

[411A]

In reality, it should not matter, anyway.
BA is able to train their new guys properly (one would hope) and, having flown with a few of the BA First Officers years ago, while on secondment to another carrier, found them to be top notch in every respect.
The same can be said of Qantas guys, as well, as I had the pleasure of flying with some of them also, many years ago.

Having said all this, under no circumstances whatsoever, would I allow them to taxi the airplane (and yes, some of our aircraft at the time had a RHS tiller).
Similar with other line Captains at the company.

After all, we can't have F/O's taxying over frangible lights, now can we....:}

[olster]

The info is completely incorrect.Also BA is not the national flag carrier;it is a very large airline in private ownership like others.No disrespect to top notch BA pilots.b/rgds.

[White Knight]

What's that 411a - they're ok now??... Just a couple of days back the Brits couldn't handle big airplanes (aeroplanes in English) when they were running over lights in Miami:ugh: Well, according to you!!

[JennyB]

If you weren't banging your head against a brick wall you might have read what 411A wrote??

[JB007]

Ditto with all the above - know many employed by BA who were CAA self improver or JAA modular...

Feel a thread move to a Wannabes Forum coming on...!!!!

[Aerospace101]

Yeah agree with the above. Basically the marketing people like to make the statement that BA only takes integrated students. But that only applies to low hour graduates (which they keep quiet about)

The requirement for DEPs was, I recall, 500 hours plus in commercial operations

Alex W. - I believe it was 500hrs on aircraft with weight >25T. Ie you cant get in with 500hrs on light a/c!

Anyway who cares - BA aint recruiting; Integrated SSPs or Modular DEPs, and probably wont for a few years to come.... :eek:

[FL370 Officeboy]

I don't see what the big fuss is. BA themselves admit they don't take modular pilots straight out of flying school....they only take integrated students as SSPs. If someone is looking at an FTO it is not unreasonable to assume that they are thinking about their employment prospects upon graduation. Their chance of employment IMMEDIATELY AFTER GRADUATION with BA is nil. So, if the school is saying to a prospective student that they have no chance of being taken on by BA after graduation that is true. If the student wants to join as a DEP after building the required experience they are free to do that.

[corsair]

So nothing new there. FTO wants to sell integrated courses to innocent wannabee BA pilots. So he exaggerates a tad. Result is that their profits go up nicely. What they usually fail to mention is that BA and one or two others like Aer Lingus like to cherry pick the best of the classes at a time when it suits them. So don't expect a call if you averages are a bit low and your timing is off.

Most other airlines don't care too much and let's face it that's where most of the jobs are.

If you want BA badly enough, you can always get it eventually. Quite why you would is another matter.

[Vone Rotate]

Flyhigh747,

Did the FTO who told you that also tell you nearly half their students all went to the same airline....

Was that one airline BA? You would like to think so..Would (in my eyes) make up for paying over the top for the course. No it was Ryanair who do accept modular......:ugh:

Nothing against FR by the way.......

[heli_port]

Top UK FTO aka OAA. It is true for low hour pilots that BA will only consider you if you have come from an integrated background.

TBH if i had to make the choice again with regards to integrated or mod (inlight of the current economic climate) i would go mod but i guess i'll have to stick with OAA now (ATPL exams approaching :eek:)

http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/jumping/jumping0021.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-unhappy-smileys.php)

[flyhigh747]

My apologies for typing in the 3rd person and somewhat decreasing the persona of this forum. However it just came out as a typed in an attempt for anonymity as I would like to join A UK FTO and as such, did not to wish to name them.

Having said that, the majority of the replies have been encouraging as to BA's status on employment, however is it true of them in the current climate?

[Alex Whittingham]

No, BA are not recruiting at all at the moment. This information relates to what they did in the past. They have, actually, taken modular trained cadets from CTC but only a few and I suspect that BA regarded the CTC output quality as as good as or better than the average integrated output regardless of the approvals CTC held at the time.

[heli_port]

They have, actually, taken modular trained cadets from CTC but only a fewThose cadets were accepted onto the BA sponsorship scheme and then 9/11 happened and they were let go; after they completed the CTC training they contacted BA and got onto the BA SSTR scheme (so i understand).

http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/party/party0011.gif (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-innocent-smileys.php)

[Alex Whittingham]

This was quite recently, within the last year.

[VirginSkid]

OATS made this point and I double checked with BA. It currently does not take Modular Students straight out of flight school. i.e as their first job unless they have followed an Intergrated Course.

But after qualification and getting you first job, who cares where you did your training. Even if they did - like any business would, airlines would be flexible to meet demand if needed.

[G SXTY]

Marketing drivel, pure and simple.

BA are pretty unlikely to be recruiting any low hours pilots in the next year or so, so the point is rather academic. What OATS won't have told you is that an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times, and both of those airlines are happy to take candidates from modular backgrounds.

As already stated, BA only make the distinction for low-hours candidates - once you have 500hrs multi-crew time (their normal minimum requirement for direct entry pilots) where and how you got your licence is pretty much irrelevent.

This is not a clever time to be throwing £70k at an integrated course, and the schools know it - expect their marketing claims to get ever wilder and more desperate.

[Megaton]

I did modular courses then 10 months with FlyBE now with BA. Guess what? Didn't spend £70K to get there!

[mini-jumbo]

What OATS won't have told you is that an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times, and both of those airlines are happy to take candidates from modular backgrounds. Sorry, but that's bollocks! As you well know, the figures of how many candidates have gone to which airline are well published on OAA's website, so anyone can go and look, and they will clearly see that the majority have gone to FR.

OAA's claim isn't entirely untrue, as I imagine the people making enquiries with them don't have licences or >500 hours jet time (although before they stopped recruiting, I'm pretty certain you'd need way more experience before being successful), therefore, the claim that BA will only take integrated candidates is correct in this circumstance.

[Aerospace101]

Ham Phisted: How much did the bond with flybe cost!?:ugh:

Theres nothing wrong with what youve done. But thats the reason flybe is introducing the MPL so all the new fresh faced FOs wont defect to BA at the earliest opportunity!

A story someone told me recently: An airline employed a load of cadets from one of the main uk FTOs back in 2004-2005. The majority of them then :mad: off to BA after they got their hours. Said airline had paid for their training, TR-base-line etc. Once they saw this happen they never again recruited anyone from that FTO since 2005. Lesson to be learned...:D

[G SXTY]

mini-jumbo

From Oxford Aviation's website, employment statistics page - graduates who have joined airlines in 2008: Flybe: 21, Ryanair: 67 (total: 88), British Airways: 25. Figures correct as of 5 minutes ago.

So exactly what part of:
an awful lot more of their students have gone to Flybe and Ryanair than BA in recent times
is 'bollocks'?

[mini-jumbo]

G-SXTY,

To clarify, the part that was bollocks (which you have kindly proved) was the part where you suggested the FTO was hidding the facts. What OATS won't have told you... As you stated, it's clearly on their website, it also on their forums and displayed on notice boards and on screens right above the customer services desk.

[Lost man standing]

On the flip side there are companies that would be reluctant to recruit people who did not study a modular course, and would not even consider anyone straight out of an integrated course. Integrated courses are not intended to produce rounded pilots. They train airline FOs. There are many interesting flying jobs out there for which that is not appropriate.

Overall those companies probably hire more low-hour pilots than BA, at least for the foreseeable future!

Incidentally I knew people who were interviewed by BA at the end of their modular course, so at times they have at times had no firm policy against such recruitment. Who knows what will happen when they next start to recruit low-hour pilots?

[Aerospace101]

when they next start to recruit low-hour pilots?

Took 4 years post 9/11 for the first SSPs. Seeing that this crisis is x100 worse than that, I'd guess its not when but if ever again!

[bajadj]

400 years?

i've just googled "cryonics", maybe we could freeze our heads Walt Disney style and ride out the multi century downturn!

:eek::eek::eek:

[Aerospace101]

Whats to say they ever come back to low hour recruitment. Virgin Atlantic sponsored about 6 cadets 10 years ago, then never touched any low hour grads. Why? Because its cheaper to take DEPs from feeder airlines. Guessing theres gona be ample number of flybe, easyjet & ryanair cadets happy to hop over to BA over the coming years... They'll just become feeder airlines to BA. With the ever increasing eroding of T&Cs in this line of work we'll soon have the way its done in the USA. FTO > Instruct > Regional > Airline Pilot.

[bajadj]

Couldn't agree with you more sir. A good friend of mine has just this week done exactly that (flybe to BA). For what it's worth I think the USA system as you descibe above is pretty good. OK it takes while but I like the career progression.

[heli_port]

This was quite recently, within the last year.

no it wasn't but then who cares :=

[clanger32]

I'll second what Sqwkvfr said. There is next to no instructional training of US citizens around Phoenix - possibly because unless/until you make it to the promised land of the nationals, there is next to no money being made.

One of our instructors recounted how he'd gone back to instructing from the regionals, because he couldn't live on the $20000 salary (!)

Therefore I don't think that EASA/JAA land will go this route, but it is an interesting question. This downturn changes all the rules and who's to say the old rule book will ever come back.

However, on the original topic, I suspect their may be some element of "wrong end of stick". I don't think ANY self respecting FTO (and for whatever mud people choose to fling at it, Oxford is that, at least) would knowingly state something that is so easily proven incorrect. I suspect the statement would have been around "BA will not take any [low hours] modular students, so if you want a shot at them as your first job, you need to go integrated"

[Aerospace101]

heli_port you are wrong, but who cares!

They have, actually, taken modular trained cadets from CTC

I can confirm BA has taken a number of ctc cadets. Around a dozen over the past year.

[G-HALE]

The Best UK trained pilots are the ex-air force or the fuglies from coventry!
What that FTO said is total crap

[Callsign Kilo]

As guessed, the FTO is Oxford - mainly because CTC, Cabair and FTE don't band about this statement as often as their associates in Kidlington. This BA 'non-modular' remark has been top of their marketing agenda for years. Although never placed in black and white by Oxford, they are only too happy to tell you when you liaise with their marketing guros. Why?? It's not entirely Oxford's doing, it's the amount of 'Tim nice but Dims' out there who have an unhealthy association with BA being the only job for them. They have no real interest in flying, they found out that they were good at spacial awareness exercises at private school. Becoming a Doctor or a Lawyer would take too much time, so Mummy and Daddy would sacrifice 70K 'pocket money' because young Nigel would look dashing in a neatly pressed uniform and pilot's cap. Better go out and purchase the obligitory Breitling now and throw a deposit down for the Volvo Estate and 'BA P1LOT' Reg while we are at it. Who said the 'romance' of being an airline pilot was dead?

P.S. Don't take the above statement too seriously, it's Friday night, I've had a few scoops and I'm not flying tomorrow! :p

[Golf--Lima--Papa]

As guessed, the FTO is Oxford - mainly because CTC, Cabair and FTE don't band about this statement as often as their associates in Kidlington. This BA 'non-modular' remark has been top of their marketing agenda for years. Although never placed in black and white by Oxford, they are only too happy to tell you when you liaise with their marketing guros. Why?? It's not entirely Oxford's doing, it's the amount of 'Tim nice but Dims' out there who have an unhealthy association with BA being the only job for them. They have no real interest in flying, they found out that they were good at spacial awareness exercises at private school. Becoming a Doctor or a Lawyer would take too much time, so Mummy and Daddy would sacrifice 70K 'pocket money' because young Nigel would look dashing in a neatly pressed uniform and pilot's cap. Better go out and purchase the obligitory Breitling now and throw a deposit down for the Volvo Estate and 'BA P1LOT' Reg while we are at it. Who said the 'romance' of being an airline pilot was dead?



classic mate, Im sure it wont be taken too seriously :)