Servisair ? Mishandling of FR3882 at Luton 25th Sept

[PIK3141]

FR3882 to Malta was caught up in the Swanwick ATC Computer failure on 25th Sept. With passengers queued to board at 1630 for a scheduled 1640 departure, a young lady announced from an adjacent gate a delay of 2 hours and a departure at 1840. That was it, the passengers dispersed, mostly staying in the gate area. At around 1745 an announcement was made seeking passengers board immediately, for what was an 1807 slot. Come 1810 with passengers all apparently boarded, the crew announced 25 passengers were missing. They dribbled on over the next 20 minutes. The slot was lost and we sat for nearly two more hours, and got away around 1950 ish, so sat in the Ryanair B738 for nearly 5 hours through the delay and flight time.
Might I suggest to the handler, Servisair is it, that next time an aircraft is subject to an ATC slot delay, that when you make the announcement, you instruct the passengers to stay in the immediate gate area, in case the slot comes forward ? That is what I expect from a 'professional' handling company. To allow the passengers to dribble back to the main terminal was unprofessional, and stupid, caused the loss of the slot, and a further 2 hour delay, which was nearly a longer delay, and nearly a cancellation. In future please do your job properly with that first announcement, as most handlers I would hope, would know to have done. Take note Ryanair, your handler let you and your Customers down, in a very avoidable manner

[Mr Angry from Purley]

PIK
No need for a public telling off though. Pilots also make mistakes and I could easily point a few out from this web site. :\

[frontcheck]

You realy cant win in this type of situation, if you asked the passengers to stay in the gate area there would be complaints of lack of facilities ,being treated like cattle etc., but when you allow passengers the freedom of going back to the terminal , you run the risk of missing a slot if it is brought forward. It is nothing to do with professionalism, the agent was doing what she was probably told and was working on the information at the time. In my airline, we board , send a ready message and hope the slot somes forward, that is the procedure, but try getting some crew to follow this is not easy, they prefer to make their own rules.

[caaardiff]

This thread was hardly worth posting.
It may have seemed to be a bad handling delay to you, but in reality its a tough situation.
On the day in hand, aircraft were given 3 hr slot delays when the issue first arose. Later on this changed to 6hrs +, then when resolved came forward with short notice
Most aircraft around the country were getting these slot times.
The situation the gate agent faced;
1) Allow the pax to go back to departures and await further information in the comfort of the departure lounge. (as nobody in any airport knew exactly what was going on that day)
2) Keep the pax at the gate and potentially face further abuse for them being held there like cattle for anything up to 8 hrs because the situation at swanwick was not resolved and all flights faced big delays (Then you would have something to complain about!!)

If option 2 was followed that would mean you would have been stood at the gate for over 1 1/2 hours, not knowing what time you would actually depart! I cant imagine many pax being happy with that either.

I'm sure it wasn't only Servisair that faced this situation as the majority of UK flight were effected that day.

Some people just have to complain about anything:ugh:

[Taffy1]

Surely RYR are at fault here too. If the ground handling agent are given an estimated departure time, this would have come from the airline or crew, if airline then recieve a slot that is earlier than the estimated departure time they have given to the handlers then to be honest they are asking for trouble here. I would have thought you have 2 options here -
1. Board the flight anyway for on time departure, close the aircraft up and get a ready message put in for the the slot. (my option!)
2. The airline refile the flight plan for the new estimated departure time, they would then recieve a slot that would be no earlier than this time, in this case not before 1840. (to be fair, on the evening in question an estimated departure time would have been a guesstimate!!)

I know at times like the evening in question it can be chaos, if the airline don't tell the handling agent that they are trying to get an earlier slot then the airline are to blame.When flights are delayed like this, staffing is a huge issue for handling agents, if the airline aren't willing to board the flight on time to wait for a slot, even if it is 2 hours for the pax sat on the aircraft, then that flight risks losing the staff to board it and go into a queue.

Glad to not be a dispatcher anymore :ok:

[flyflybaby]

i was working in cork airport on the night in question and it was chaos there so i cant imagine what it was like in brittish airports.
We asked people not to leave the departures lounge but they left anyway, so there is nothing we can do if the slot is moved forward which some of them were.

[goth_babe4000]

to be honest, if the agent had of or hadnt not have told the pax to stay in the gate area, they no doubt would have wondered off anyways, if there is delays for any reason pax feel this is extra time for drinking, or looking round duty free.

[groundhogbhx]

As someone who had to suffer the goings on that afternoon it sounds that they did the best they could. We had 3 hour delays for all flights using London airspace and then everything went back to 2344z. No one could give any idea when flights would go so some boarded, others decided it was better to leave the pax in the lounge. All these decisions were based on what could be given to the pax on board the aircraft. When the problem cleared it was a mad rush to see who could get out first. Not my idea of a fun afternoon:(

[mickey71]

not the handling agent at fault at all,real catch 22 situation alot of the airlines policy is to board for an ontime departure and to try and bring the slot forward but very hard when the whole atc system is down as we all know and as for boarding for an ontime departure yes it can work but you also can end up with a riot on board and accusations of we are being held prisoner!

the other point i would add is not matter what you can say at the gate area someone always wanders of or finds a little world of their own to fall asleep or gets to comfy in the bar!

its also just as hard for the airline, in the day and age of high fuel prices they are trying to flight plan the best route possible without getting their knuckles rapped and overspending on the fuel bill and you usually find its no more than 2 people working in an atc cell for an airline so when dealing with an airline the size of ryr,ab,ezy or tui in that situation you are up against it trying to get your acft away,as is also the handlers job trying to balance the staff and equipment to get everyone away and no airline or handler is better than anyone at trying to get the flights away its a case of hardwork and teamwork for the respective company with believe it or not the passengers at heart .

its a nightmare scenario to be in working or as a pax and one i dare say we go through time and time again,like all things everything breaks down now and then,and isnt it better to have safety than disaster.

aviation at the moment is going through a tough time and will do so for the next year or so,but then so is everyone else so instead of finger pointing or bickering then we should all at least stick together and try and lift each others morale from which i have read on this thread people appear to be doing that.

best of luck everyone

[DeltaIndiaSierraPapa]

I am an ops controller at a handling agent at MAN (not Serisair). I was working the night in question. All of our Southbound and Continent bound flights were imediately badly affected by slot delays. In our case, flights that were due to depart at say 5ish were copping for 7 hour slots. That was the case for about 45 minutes after the initial failure of Swanwick. After they got back online however(much quicker than initially expected), I spoke to ATC who informed me thay were allowing southbound slot delayed flights to depart, on a first come first serve basis with 6 minute route separation. The slots however are issued from Brussels and they were not ammending them (the slots). SO all we COULD do was to call the pax back to the gate, get them on as quick as possible and hope for the best. Sometimes you win and sometimes you ride out a ****ty slot.

Not the handling agents fault at all.

[Tyrekicker2]

Should passengers be boarded in cases such as these, so the aircraft can depart at short notice in case a revised slot is allocated? IMHO this is an airline policy issue - and the policy should be clearly stated to the handler. A major carrier I used to work for (and susequently handled as a customer) had a clear policy for this situation - pax to be boarded.
Sitting on board for an hour or two extra is not a pleasant experience for the passengers, but at least they can be kept up to date with the situation by the cockpit crew. And it is not such a frustrating experience as the missing if the improved slot outlined in the first post.

[Trabbi]

Most of the airlines have a policy to board passengers when the slot leads to an 1 hour delay or less, hoping to improve the slot in the coming tens of minutes. If the slot delay exceeds one hour, the crew decides what to do, board 'em or leave 'em at the gate. That's the game everyday.
The crew don't want them on board in a sticky plane on the ground and the handling agent don't want them at the gate tieing gate personell.
I don't see a mishandling in any way. Can't satisfy SLF anyway, they always complain, put 'em on board, they feel like prisoners, keep 'em at the gate, they want to go to the plane (as it would make any more sense).

[boeingbus2002]

One airline had a 1hr 30 minute time frame. If slot was outside this time, crew were able to refuse boarding until a slot improvement. However sometimes the slot was 1hr 35min from STD and moving around. As mentioned its a catch 22 situation. Ideally gate staff want pax to stay nearby so as to provide info or for quick boarding. However many pax would just rather go straight to the bar for another pint!
Might we ask what other options the original poster would suggest in this situation? We all know of the various scenarios which would develop. Things aren't always so clear cut when you are pax!

[PIK3141]

Things were very clear to me, the minute the young lady made the announcement, neglecting to tell passengers to stay in the gate area.
We all know slots can come forward, do we not ? A compromise would have been to announce boarding in say an hour, in good time to meet the projected slot. As it was, we missed the slot when it did come forward by 23 minutes, and were maybe lucky to get another slot, and hence lucky not to have been cancelled, especially since the crew faced a delayed start to a 7 hour round-trip to Malta. As it was, we sat on the aircraft for nearly two hours anyway before the 3 hour flight to Malta.

Suppose the pax had boarded at normal time, then yes, the wait aboard would not have been pleasing. But which would the passengers remember for longer, that wait, or, had the flight been cancelled, the loss of everyones trip ? Lesser of two evils, is it not ? Hence, I consider the boarding of the flight was mis-handled, and I would expect a professional handling agency/airline policy, whichever, to have done better on behalf of their Customers. I also take issue with saying you can never keep the SLF happy, as they are the Customers, who pay the wages.

[Dropline]

Suppose the slot hadn't come forward? Then you would have had people complaining they had been called back to the gate in an hour for no reason.In a situation like this we do the best we can with the information we have available. Another poster has already made the point that ATC was up and running again much quicker than initial reports suggested it would be. When passengers were informed of the delay, slots were not expected to come forward as quickly as they did. With a normal slot delay it is generally ryanair procedure to board up on time and file a ready message and wait for the slot to come forward. However this evening in question was not a normal slot delay. ATC computer systems had failed, hence a ready message would have had no effect. ALL flights were delayed due to the ATC failure, and it was impossible to predict when ATC would be up and running again. As a handling agent we also follow the instructions of the airline...have you considered the fact that the crew may have refused to board the passengers once they were told the ATC system had crashed? Ryanair crews are worked harder than most, and may have wanted the chance of a break! Some of your fellow travellers would have been as annoyed at being kept on board the aircraft as you were that people were allowed to go back to the departure lounge. There are better facilities available in the departure lounge than there are on board a B737, and staff probably felt they were doing the best thing in terms of passenger comfort. Just because you didn't like the decisions made, (which may actually have been made by Ryanair and not Servisair), does not mean you were mishandled.

[Beer_n_Tabs]

Oh no..... he didn't use that line

as they are the Customers, who pay the wages.

Somebody please tell me that was wind up :p

I always wonder if the likes of people like you moan when you have to queue up in a supermarket. Do you give 'em what for then and tell them that as you are buying their bog rolls that you are paying their wages, and therefore should not have to go through the humiliation of queing with the other riff-raff.
Perhaps all these people throughout the country who are fortunate to have good old you paying their wages should all line up, kneel down and buff your bollocks for you at the same time, you damn hero you.

As Benny Hill used to say.... Ruddy Pirrock (chinese accent required). :=

(i really think that a 'sticking middle finger up' emote should be added to this)

[Dropline]

....As if the cost of a Ryanair 1p fare would pay anyones wages!!!

[PIK3141]

Well Beer and Tabs,

If the passengers don't pay the wages, I certainly don't know who does...

[Beer_n_Tabs]

Been a VERY busy bunny so not had the chance to check the thread recently......

But anyway..... so on this particular occasion you had a complaint about the handling agent I believe. Not the airline who as I am sure you know are a sub contractor to the airline.

So who's wages exactly do you pay at the sub-contractor? Maybe you paid the wages of the person on duty who was out of sight trying to figure out the problem. Indeed perhaps your vast cash injection to the company could have bought the bog roll or coffee.

Not that, that should detract from the fact that you actually don't pay any wages at airline or handling agent.....period.

You.... buy a service from a company.

[DidIdothat]

I don't post very much because I find it very dificult to join in on what is normally is a (our handling is better than your handling) issue. When will everyone realise that all agents are in the same boat and fighting against the ever so right types as PIK3141.

Sack the girl/boy/man/woman who made the call at the gate or is this really what PIK wants. The days of boarding and sending the ready message should return but at what cost?

This person did the best that they could on the day. Come on PIK state your colours and when did you last deal with (if ever) a slot delay at the gate facing people like yourself.

Good on you all and try and stick together instead of infighting. This is one thread that you have all won.

Did :D