To all the Boys and girls flying in Sudan.

[maxrated]

In light of the deafening silence from our own Intel people re this situation this morning, we might as well pass this around on the pprune.


BY MOHAMMAD OSMAN, Associated Press Writer
36 minutes ago

KHARTOUM, Sudan - An aid helicopter for the U.N.-African Union mission in Darfur was shot down outside a refugee camp on Monday (today), killing all four crew members and scattering debris over a half-mile, Sudanese police and the U.N. said.

Police Gen. Hashim Ibrahim Fadul al-Mawla said the helicopter was shot down in Nyala, the capital of South Darfur. The helicopter was operated by a private company and hired by UNAMID to carry relief materials to Muhajiria from Nyala.

UNAMID spokesman Ahmed Salah said the crash killed the Russian pilots of the helicopter, which belonged to the Sudanese Supreme Company and was contracted to deliver food aid. Salah did not say whether the aircraft came under fire before it went down near the Kalama refugee camp. Two crew members died immediately while two others died later at the hospital.

The governor of South Darfur, Ali Mahmoud, told the Sudan News Agency that witnesses reported the helicopter caught fire mid-flight and burned before hitting the ground
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This Kalma place where the helo went down is only 3 miles south of the Nyala airport. approx radial 120' NYL. Reccomend keep the circuits to the North and fly short tight appraoches tomorrow.

Y'all be carefull out there now !

[2 tymzz]

Many thanks for the info maxrated.
However if there is a risk of getting shot out of the sky i'd suggest that people don't fly there full stop! Or at least until the current security situation is better.

[ARENDIII]

Maxrated,
Thanks for the info, was in Nyala 4 days ago and all seemed Okay-Well appearances may be deceptive. My sincerest condolences to all affected by this-bad news indeed.My particular company pays US$30 extra to crews operating from Afghanistan(not into!) maybe we shou'd now include Darfur? (What do you think?)
Also-can you tell me if you agree with the MSA printed on the Jeppessen letdown charts for Nyala as I have had no success with our safety department in spite of raising this question over 18 months ago.
ArendIII.

[ARENDIII]

Maxrated,
Our aircraft are now fitted with a flight data monitoring device so we cannot fly tight approaches like we used to to avoid the (hot spots)-now we just either take the bullets or we get ****ty e-mails the next day!
Always fly safely-if in doubt-do not go!
ArendIII.

[ARENDIII]

Too true,
Unfortunately too many aviation companies have this attitude, mine is better than most but they still have a looooooooooooong way to go.
We have safety officers-may I say all crews also belong in this category, but the people back home simply have not had the experience or lack the will or initiative to really get to grips with the realities at the outstations.
It is all all too easy to get an overseas company to analyze flight data and then blame the aircrew for (an unsafe approach). Unfortunately it seems that this new technology is being embraced far too quickly by inexperienced management and used as a tool for their own pursuits.
These people will also try and negate aircrew concerns by labelling them as non company people or such nonsense but all it needs is a loss of crew with an associated hull loss and these same people ask-WHAT WENT WRONG? Well-to them I say go and check your outststations and LISTEN to the concerns of your crews, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!
ALWAYS FLY SAFELY!
ArendIII.

[Jacobest]

Arend, sounds like you and I fly (well flew as of today for me :) ) for the same company. Regarding the ****ty emails and the monitoring equipment. Here is a hint. Next time you get one, tell the safety officer he must fly there for a bit. Problem is the plane you and I fly, is a specialized aircraft, and can therefore not be operated like an airliner. Another hint, next time if you know you flying into a tight spot, before take-off, get the load master to remove the flash disk from the unit (right back by the ramp) no more emails!
Fly safe and watch your backs

[AAL]

It is alarmng that critical information about imminent threats to aviation safety in Sudan and Somalia is deliberately being withheld by the AU/UN from the aviation fraternity obviously for fear of operators reconsidering flying into/out of these hotspots.

Beware guys and be safe!

[maxrated]

Hey guys, My company's management is quite progressive and we are flying operational approaches and departures around Sudan at crew discretion.

I'm quite disturbed that given the current situation in Dafur that your company still expects a normal standard arrival profile ?

God forbid that anyone else gets hit, but if that happend do you recon the company management would be like " Hey guys we just had our plane get shot down but the good thing is that they were nicely stabilised and in the slot at the time ." ???? WTF.

Still, 2 days after this incident we have heard nothing , nada, niks, iziko, diddly squat , sweet F/A officially from anyone in UNMID/UNMIS/UNHAS about this or the implications of this on the aviation security situation at Nyala airport.

Arend have you guys received any gen on this ?

We spoke to the crew who flew the 2 recovered bodies to El Fasher, they said that there were bullet wounds on one of the bodies.

Methinks that the UN are stalling for time because if they have to confirm that the chopper was shot down ( as eveyone in Nyala from army to police to ATC to the local eye witness's say it was) then the UN is going to have to jack up their operation here or pullout.

If anyone gets any further gen on this then please post it.

In the meantime keep the circuits tight and from the Northern side of the airport.

[BUSHJEPPY]

September 30, 2008 (LONDON) — The armed opposition Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) today called for an international investigation of the cause of a United Nations helicopter crash, alleging that the Sudanese security service is behind the crash.

A Mi-8 helicopter contracted to carry food supplies for the UN African Union mission in Darfur crashed near Kalma Internally Displaced Persons (IDP) camp shortly after its takeoff from Nyala. Sudanese authorities accused the rebels of shooting the plane.

Ahmed Hussein Adam, the spokesperson of the rebel JEM accused the Sudanese security service of shooting the Russian helicopter and attributing the responsibility of the attack to the rebels.

The Russian foreign ministry said today that it is initiating an investigation, since three of the four crewmen who died in the crash were Russians.

Adam further said that the security service is preparing the ground to "commit new atrocities in IPDs camps." According to the rebel official, Khartoum has sent additional security units to implement a plan aiming at dismantling the IDPs camps in the region.

"This is a dangerous plan and we are expecting them to commit new crimes," he said

On Monday August 25, Sudanese troops clashed with the displaced population inside Kalma. The armed forces killed 31 people, according to the UNAMID. "30 of the victims were killed by gunshots while a woman fell to her death in a ditch, while attempting to flee the shooting," the hybrid mission said.

The Sudanese authorities justified the raid on Kalma camp by claiming to have received reliable intelligence about weapons smuggled recently into the camp which is at a strategic position because of its proximity to the Nyala airport and railways.

At the time, camp leaders firmly denied the presence of any weapons. They pointed out that Khartoum is planning to dismantle the largest IDPs camp in Darfur, adding if they had weapons at least some of them might dare to use it against the assailants.

Ahmed said such allegations could only be used by Khartoum to neutralize the joint peacekeeping mission when security forces start to forcibly relocate the population of the camps.

Kalma camp is the home to 90,000 people. Government offices were torched and officials expelled from the camp in 2005. The camp which is the largest in Darfur is located near the airport and its existence reminding massive atrocities committed against civilians.

Different Sudanese officials including the President Omar Al-Bashir himself have said that the IDP camps in Darfur must be closed.

(ST)

[maxrated]

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Ok , so basically the rebels and the Goverment agree that it was shot down, although they accuse each other of this, YET, the UNMID spokesperson still refuses to confirm or deny this......:ugh: the stupid :mad::mad::mad::mad:

[ARENDIII]

Thanks Maxrated and J BE(to differentiate from the JB!)
I will certainly think again and ask a few more questions before I fly in this area again, and you can bet the "company" will also get asked a few questions.
You only get one chance in this game and you had better have your ducks in a row.
As for the ****ty e-mails, I have not had the opportunity to answer one of these as I have not had one to date-time will tell.
However, I think you know what my reply will be-if I even condescend to answer such rubbish.
This system is being used to target individual crews which negates the whole system. It was initially introduced on a non-punitive basis but as we all know due to the ineptitude of those who administer it, it will eventually descend into chaos and engender a climate of mistrust.
Surely we can learn from the airlines and adopt procedures and limits that fit with the profiles that we need to fly.
This reminds me of a co-pilot on the sim when we were surely on our way down and I asked for help on the rudders-all he cou'd do was say that he had amber light's on his hydraulic panel!!!
True to company SOP until the earth doth rise up and smite us.
Fortunately I managed to convince him that I needed a bit more from him at the time-we made it, JUST!.
So, here we are all nicely stabilised on an approach-hope the flash card is as crashproof as the FDR and CVR. If not-Why bother?
All the money you spent on flight data monitoring will burn just as surely as everything else-maybe you will hear me asking that on the CVR?
Fly safely chaps,
Do whatever is neccessary to ensure a safe flight-if that includes some awkward questions-go fot it!.
ArendIII.

[weido_salt]

Never, ever, trust the UN on anything, or the local military for that matter.

Too many people in the outfit there for the wrong reasons!!

Yes the "safety officer" should be there immediately, to monitor the situation.

If you are bought down, the UN will do f all for your family, believe me.

Keep the approaches nice and tight.