Defence Is Now An Election Issue – Poll Reveals

[Mr Grimsdale]

I'm not ex-forces but I thought some of you might be interested in this, I know it's only a poll but...

NEWS RELEASE

EMBARGO: 00.01hrs, Sunday 28 Sept 2008

DEFENCE IS NOW AN ELECTION ISSUE – POLL REVEALS

Three quarters of voters say that Britain’s Armed Forces are “dangerously over-stretched”

Over half say that they will consider each party’s Defence policy when deciding how to vote

Defence is now an election issue for the majority of the British public, according to a new opinion poll by ComRes for the United Kingdom National Defence Association .

More than three quarters of voters (78%) believe that Britain’s Armed Forces are “dangerously over-stretched”. Seventy per cent think that the Government is “failing to give the Armed Forces the resources they need”. Only 32% feel that the Government “treats our Armed Forces with the respect they deserve”.

Over half of the electorate (57%) say that they will consider each party’s policy on Defence when deciding how to vote in the next election. This figure rises to 63% among voters in vital seats in the South East.

Results from the poll of 1,002 adults, carried out by ComRes between 19 and 21 September, reflect voters’ concerns about the state of the UK’s Armed Forces.

Shadow Defence Secretary, Dr Liam Fox, is due to lead a discussion on the Armed Forces later today (Sunday 28 Sept) at the Conservative Party Conference in Birmingham. Immediately prior to the debate, the UKNDA is holding a conference fringe-meeting at which leading figures from within the Conservative Party and the Armed Forces will call for a Tory manifesto commitment to increase Defence spending.

Author and broadcaster Prof. Richard Holmes and Gulf War ‘Desert Rat’ General Patrick Cordingley will join former Shadow Defence Secretary Bernard Jenkin MP and former MP Winston Churchill (grandson of Britain’s wartime leader) on the platform at this meeting to endorse the UKNDA’s campaign.

The UKNDA last week published a major report – Overcoming the Defence Crisis – setting out the case for a 40% increase in Defence spending to meet current requirements and likely future threats, and calling for regular Defence reviews. The report argues that “Defence provision should be threat-driven, not budget-driven.”

Former Chief of the Defence Staff, General Lord Guthie, a Patron of the UKNDA, said: "Defence has been under-funded, and risks have been taken with our security and the size and equipping of our Armed Forces for many years. The Government has now been foced by events, and the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, to urgently find additional funding for our servicemen and servicewomen - but it is too little, too late.

"Despite repeated warnings, our Services are neglected and under-resourced. This has cost lives. Hopefully, politicians of all parties will now recognise their responsibilities, and how we have to be prepared for the future and the unexpected."

UKNDA President Winston S. Churchill - grandson of Britain's wartime leader - added: "It is time that Britain's politicians woke up to the fact that there are votes in Defence, and that the public overwhelmingly feel that this Government is 'failing to give the Armed Forces the resources they need' - and they are absolutely right!"

UKNDA Chief Executive Cdr John Muxworthy commented: “Our Armed Forces are chronically under-funded. In the past two decades, Defence spending as a proportion of GDP has halved. This has left our Forces dangerously over-stretched, as the British public has recognised. The latest opinion poll confirms that Defence has become a key election issue, with the majority of voters backing the UKNDA’s call for increased Defence spending and a fairer deal for our nation’s hard-pressed service personnel and their families.”

-Ends

For further information or interview opportunities please contact:

Cdr. John Muxworthy, CEO, UKNDA, tel 01264 860693, email [email protected] ([email protected])

Andy Smith, PRO, UKNDA, tel: 07737 271676, email [email protected] ([email protected])

Greig Baker, Director, ComRes, tel: 0207 340 9637 / 07738 931036, email [email protected] ([email protected])

Editor’s Notes:
1. The United Kingdom National Defence Association (UKNDA) was formed in 2007 to campaign for sufficient, appropriate and fully-funded Armed Forces. UKNDA's President is Winston S. Churchill, the former Conservative MP, war correspondent, and grandson of Britain’s wartime Prime Minister. Patrons include three former Chiefs of the Defence Staff – Lords Guthrie, Craig and Boyce – as well as former Labour Foreign Secretary Lord Owen and former Liberal Democrat Leader Sir Menzies Campbell. Please see www.uknda.org (http://www.uknda.org/)
2. The poll was carried out by ComRes on behalf of the UKNDA between 19 and 21 September 2008 and comprised telephone interviews with 1,002 adults throughout Great Britain, with data weighted to demographically represent the adult population of Great Britain. Please see ComRes - Welcome (http://www.comres.co.uk) for further details, or email [email protected] ([email protected])
3. The UKNDA’s “Support our Armed Forces” fringe-meeting will be held at Austin Court, Cambridge Street, Birmingham, at 1300hrs on Sunday 28 September. Details from Andy Smith on 07737 271676.
PRESS INVITATION – DRINKS ABOARD THE NARROWBOAT “[U]RUMSPRINGA”
Journalists attending the Conservative Party Conference are invited to join UKNDA CEO Cdr John Muxworthy and PRO Andy Smith for liquid refreshments aboard the narrowboat “Rumspringa” (5 mins from the Conference Centre) from 1700 on Sunday 28 Sept. Please call 07737 271676 or 07721 624980 for detailed directions.

[BEagle]

Thanks for the info., MrG!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

But will the wretched NuLabor Government listen to voters any more over this than they have over anything else? Somehow I doubt it.

The next backlash Brown and Darling are going to have to face is the outrage expressed over their utter greenwash concerning vehicle excise duty. Potentially more vote-losing than Armed Forces overstretch, because it hits voters directly in their pockets.

[spheroid]

The UKNDA is not affiliated or in any way connected to any political party. However the UKNDA will monitor and report on the views of political parties when and wherever they deal with matters related to Defence and the Armed Forces.

Yeah right.......

[speeddial]

Indeed, one hopes that the line "Journalists attending the Conservative Party Conference are invited to join UKNDA CEO" was suitably repeated on previous press releases with an invite at the Labour party conference?

[Mr Grimsdale]

Apparently they did hold meetings at both the Lib Dem and Labour conferences. I think the relevant press releases are available on the UKNDA website.

[spheroid]

I wonder how many Labour delegates went to the UKNDA meeting?

[Essexbird]

But will the wretched NuLabor Government listen to voters any more over this than they have over anything else? Somehow I doubt it

Time to oust them at the 1st available oppertunity then, me thinks..... :}

[Jackonicko]

There are many good reasons for ousting Labour, not least being the growing proof of 'Prudent' Gordon's utter ineptitude as Chancellor. PFIs have been hidden borrowing, and it's clear that Mr Brown has mortgaged our future to (or beyond) the hilt.

But while I would welcome a change, I see no evidence that the Tories would grasp the nettle and do what's necessary, and that is to dramatically increase taxation. Efficiency savings may help reduce Government spending, but if it were that easy...... even the slack-witted Gordon would have done it already.

It's politically impossible to reduce spending on popular areas like education, the NHS and the elderly, so if you want to reduce Government spending, it will be areas like Defence that will take the brunt of any cuts. And because the Tories have the unearned and undeserved reputation of being 'sound on defence' they can and will get away with wielding the axe.

Historically, it is an unpalateable truth that the Tories have imposed bigger cuts on the Armed Forces than Labour have done, so anyone thinking that a Cameron government will be a good thing for Defence is, I suspect, sadly deluded.

[Essexbird]

I can assure you that I am not deluded, and do to a certain extent find myself agreeing with your comments. It is a sad matter of fact however, that these days none of the political parties will probably ever give enough funding to our forces, period. I am therefore, at a loss as to what to suggest. It is my own personal belief that all parties are equally as bad as each other, so is it a case of better the devil you know or time for someone else to have a go, I don't know! :ugh:

[minigundiplomat]

I fear a little 'lead and lag' at play here. Defence has been working it's way up the public awareness stakes recently, but I fear economic events over the last fortnight will have bumped it way down the publics big list of things to spend money on, if we still had the cash and hadnt taken on two banks.

When your struggling to pay a mortgage, troops in Iraq/Afghanistan are a long way away. Im sure some kind people will disagree, and still give a t£ss, but the average man in the street would probably respond with....

'Armed who.....?'

[Jackonicko]

I think that under this Government, the stock of the Armed Forces is at a high. They may not give you the tools you need to do the job, and they're certainly guilty of increasing over-stretch, but they appreciate that they have world class forces, and have tried to facillitate public shows of appreciation.

With Afghanistan and Iraq in the news daily, the public are aware what the forces are doing, and there's widespread admiration for what you chaps do, even among sections of society who may have disagreed with the invasion of Iraq very strongly.

But (and you just knew there would be a 'but') Government and Public support for the Armed Forces can be guaranteed only for as long as it doesn't necessitate another penny in the pound on income tax, or any diversion of funds away from those parts of the state which affect them directly, whether that's universal child support (such a useful means of paying for the pony's tack, don't you know), winter fuel payments for pensioners or even TV licencing.

[Essexbird]

Mind you it doesn't sit well with Joe Public when we read how the MOD has squandered away millions of pounds from its budget due to incompetency - Chinook MK3's and over budget/late Eurofighter spring to mind....! Not really the way to go about getting public support! :hmm:

Not my own opinion by the way!

[minigundiplomat]

Is that training bra cutting in a bit 1.4G?

Are you feeling a little unloved? Did Mummy not breastfeed you? or has the thread not drifted towards the world of VC10 stewards?

[Hangar_9]

Who is this prat? ^^^^^^^^^^^^:mad:

[Essexbird]

1.4G - I didn't expect to find your comments on this thread. I wasn't aware you were able to follow stories unless they were in picture format, after all there are NO PHOTO's here! Sorry to disappoint you, but this is an adults only discussion!!!!! :p

[Ogre]

Apologies for dragging this thread back to the original post, but I have to ask a question regarding the stats shown.

"More than three quarters of voters (78%) believe that Britain’s Armed Forces are “dangerously over-stretched”. Seventy per cent think that the Government is “failing to give the Armed Forces the resources they need”. Only 32% feel that the Government “treats our Armed Forces with the respect they deserve”."

Of those people polled, how many will actually get off their behinds at the next election and vote?

[Essexbird]

how many will actually get off their behinds at the next election and vote?

Probably not even half! Unfortunately society is becoming too much of a whining culture. People will moan and slag everyone else of (this forum no exception :rolleyes:), stating how 'if things were done this way, blah blah blah', however when called upon to do something about it personally, most, as you say, can't even be bothered to get of their behinds!!!! I'm afraid it will just be a case off wait and see as to which group of incompetents will take the reigns of the country next - after all, one thing assured, at some stage they WILL be incompetent - I bet my taxes on it!

[Mr Grimsdale]

Dunno if you're interested or attach any credibility but...

TIME FOR A PUBLIC DEBATE ON DEFENCE, HOLMES TELLS TORIES

Author & broadcaster Prof. Richard Holmes joins military and political leaders to call for a new relationship between the Nation and its Armed Forces

Major-Gen. Patrick Cordingley, Bernard Jenkin MP, and UKNDA President Winston Churchill put the case for Defence Reviews and higher spending

UKNDA makes its presence felt at the Conservative Party Conference

Leading military historian Prof. Richard Holmes has called for a public debate on Defence. Speaking on Sunday September 28 at a UKNDA [United Kingdom National Defence Association] fringe-meeting at the Conservative Party Conference, Prof. Holmes – the best-selling author and presenter of the popular BBC TV series War Walks – said the time had come for “a national debate about Defence and more honesty from politicians about what our Armed Forces can do”, adding that the present Government had “a prince’s appetite for commitments but a pauper’s budget to carry them out.”

Holmes, a vice-president of the UKNDA, which was formed last year to campaign for “sufficient, appropriate and fully-funded Armed Forces”, told the meeting in Birmingham that he had been involved in Defence all his working life, serving for 36 years in the Territorial Army from private to brigadier. He had decided to speak out, he said, because the relationship between the nation and its Forces had become unbalanced and “nobody who has the best interests of the Armed Forces at heart can remain silent.”

UKNDA President Winston Churchill, former Conservative MP and grandson of Britain’s wartime leader, said that there could be “little doubt that Britain’s Armed Forces are in crisis”, with less than half the budget they had two decades ago. Funding had shrunk to “a mere 2.3% of GDP – the lowest since the ‘locust years’ of the 1930s when inadequate Defence provision paved the way directly to world war. As a result of grave under-funding, our Armed Forces are today too small for the commitments placed upon them. This in turn causes extreme over-stretch, with intervals between active service tours of duty all too often measured in months not years. This leads to family pressures, even break-ups, and the threat of mass resignations.”

Front-line troops, Churchill said, were “all too often committed to battle with equipment that is defective or obsolete. Members of our Armed Forces are being killed or wounded totally unnecessarily, due directly to under-funding. Government ministers, indeed our politicians collectively, should hang their heads in shame at this betrayal of the Military Covenant.” Meanwhile, he said, global threats were mounting – “an unstable nuclear-armed Pakistan, Iran building a nuclear capability and threatening to use it, China and Russian rearming, while the latter flexes its muscles by invading its neighbour, Georgia, and threatening Ukraine.”

Churchill also announced the results of the latest public opinion poll on Defence, conducted by ComRes for the UKNDA, which had shown that 78% of the British public believed the Armed Forces were “dangerously over-stretched”. Seventy per cent thought the Government was failing to give the Armed Forces the resources they need, and 57% said they would consider each party’s policy on Defence when deciding how to vote.

Cameron urged to “speak up for the Forces”

He called on Conservative Party leader David Cameron to “speak up for Britain’s Armed Forces” and make a firm commitment to increase Defence funding. “Let him state forthwith that the next Conservative Government will immediately increase Forces' pay and will provide more resources for Defence overall. That action alone will give hope to our underpaid, overstretched forces, and will persuade many not to quit, who might otherwise do so in the course of the coming 18 months – something we simply cannot afford to let happen."

This message was reinforced by Major-General Patrick Cordingley, who commanded the 7th Armoured Brigade (the ‘Desert Rats’) in the Gulf War, who said that: “our service men and service women have been treated disgracefully.” Politicians’ neglect of the Armed Forces also had wider consequences, he said. In Iraq, for example, due to lack of troops on the ground, British forces had needed to concentrate on superior firepower, using “excessive force” through air and artillery bombardments, causing unnecessary civilian casualties, displacing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people and leading to long-term problems in the region.

“We need an expansion of Britain’s Armed Forces and regular reviews both of our Defence and our Foreign Policy,” Cordingley said.

Former Shadow Defence Secretary, the Rt Hon Bernard Jenkin MP, a member of the House of Commons Defence Select Committee, said that “under the pressure of current operations our Armed Forces are suffering a slow attrition of manpower, equipment, morale and readiness.” This, he said, would affect not only the long-term viability of the Armed Forces but also the UK’s ability to influence international events or protect our global interests. He welcomed Conservative leader David Cameron’s acceptance that there should be a Defence Review “based on national security not Treasury guidelines” but added that “if we are to remain a capable military power, this will almost certainly mean spending more.”

Jenkin told the meeting that Britain needed “significant, but not outrageous, increases in Defence spending” to provide adequate force levels – a third aircraft carrier, restoration of the full Type-45 destroyer programme, immediate commencement of the replacements for the Type-23 frigates, an extra 18 infantry battalions and an additional armoured regiment, and a significant increase in RAF transport aircraft.

This expansion, together with “filling in the current black hole” in the Defence budget, would require an extra £5 billion per annum, the MP for North Essex told the meeting. “This is a large increase, but given that there have been real-term increases under this Government of £45.1bn in Health and £35bn in Education, it is realistic. By the end of the current spending round in 2011, spending on Overseas Aid, Health and Education will have risen in real terms by 215%, 147% and 75% respectively since 1997, while Defence spending will have increased by just 11%. While the public sector as a whole has gorged, Defence has been starved of its fair share for too long.”

The UK, Jenkin concluded, needed forces “large enough and flexible enough to undertake war fighting and stability ops in several different theatres and would also ensure that key skills are maintained should the threat of a major war develop. There is rightly much talk about respecting the Military Covenant, but the Covenant is about much more than pay rates and accommodation. At its heart it must mean addressing the fundamental question of the MoD’s core budget.”

Among the Conservative politicians and activists present at the UKNDA meeting was Shadow Defence Minister Gerald Howarth, MP for Aldershot.

The UKNDA recently published a major report – Overcoming the Defence Crisis – setting out the case for a 40% increase in Defence spending to meet current requirements and likely future threats, and calling for regular Defence reviews. The report argued that “Defence provision should be threat-driven, not budget-driven.”
-Ends

For further information or interview opportunities please contact:
Cdr. John Muxworthy, CEO, UKNDA, tel 01264 860693, email [email protected]
Andy Smith, PRO, UKNDA, tel: 07737 271676, email [email protected]

Editor’s Notes:
1. The United Kingdom National Defence Association (UKNDA) was formed in 2007 to campaign for sufficient, appropriate and fully-funded Armed Forces. UKNDA's President is Winston S. Churchill, the former Conservative MP, war correspondent, and grandson of Britain’s wartime Prime Minister. Patrons include three former Chiefs of the Defence Staff – Lords Guthrie, Craig and Boyce – as well as former Labour Foreign Secretary Lord Owen and former Liberal Democrat Leader Sir Menzies Campbell. Please see Home - UKNDA - The UK National Defence Association (http://www.uknda.org)

2. The poll was carried out by ComRes on behalf of the UKNDA between 19 and 21 September 2008 and comprised telephone interviews with 1,002 adults throughout Great Britain, with data weighted to demographically represent the adult population of Great Britain. Please see ComRes - Welcome (http://www.comres.co.uk) for further details, or email [email protected] ([email protected])

[cazatou]

Regretably the money is not available - for a very simple reason.

Between July 1999 and March 2002 Mr Brown sold off 395 Tonnes of Gold at an average price of $275.6 per ounce. The current price (at 1200Z) was $856.3 per ounce.

A Pension Fund Manager in the City who presided over such a deal would be looking for a new job - he would not have been promoted to run the entire Company.