Flybe to start the MPL

[potkettleblack]

Link to an article on Flight Global attached. With FR slowing down recruitment and Flybe moving towards the MPL I forsee even tougher times for wannabes. Those two outfits would historically take the largest slice of low houred pilots.

Flybe will be the first UK airline to train pilots to the MPL (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/26/316595/flybe-will-be-the-first-uk-airline-to-train-pilots-to-the.html)

[nickyjsmith]

From a business point of view, its a good idea, it will keep pilots at the airline unless they can afford to upgrade their licences.
From a pilot point of view, i would imagine these guys would be well looked after as they are least likely to move and so will form a stable pilot force for the airline to work with.

[no sponsor]

A cunning plan to handcuff f/o's to the airline. Does anyone actually ever stay at Flybe for more than a couple of years?

;)

[Willie Everlearn]

There are mixed feelings about the MPL. Good for 'the chosen' I suppose. But recently, the Danes laid off a number of RHS MPLs. Who now have nowhere to go because they don't hold a 'regular' licence. No one, it seems, will take them with their MPLs. :eek:

Good idea?
Bad idea? :eek:

[xbilz]

Willie said it. It was Sterling Airlines which hired world's first 9 MPL and they all had been flying sectors. flybe must be aware of this fact and I guess they will have some contingency in their scheme to make it look more attractive. We will have to wait and see. I might apply ..I only have my class 1 medical ... no licenses.

[ford cortina]

I can only imagine that Flybe will be inundated with CV's so no real need to have a back up plan.

[daviojk]

I wonder which FTO they will be using?

[EGHH]

My money would be on AFT at Coventry. Don't have any first hand information though.

[1800ed]

They use FTE for their 'Mentored Pilot Scheme', so perhaps there?

[Wireless]

A cunning plan to handcuff f/o's to the airline. Does anyone actually ever stay at Flybe for more than a couple of years?

Yes they do

[xbilz]

No, they have used FTE in Jerez, AFT in Coventry, Oxford and PTC in Ireland as well. Surprisingly, they never dealt with CTC directly (cadets might have gone to flybe indirectly) and given the current situation CTC might have been looking for another scheme to keep them going... so we can speculate but Brian Watt is keeping it secret till October 20th 2008. We will know when its advertised and the fight will begin. I guess they will be looking to take probably 6-8 cadets.

[potkettleblack]

Whichever FTO they use the level D sims play a big part of the training so that will probably swing things one way or the other. Be interesting to see how it all pans out for them. There are a number FTO's that have secured bragging rights recently as being an "approved" Flybe school. Might be only short lived once the first MPL candidates get on line.

[blueskybird]

do you guys think the MPL course will cost less than the current intergrated courses due to the fact that they fly more of their course requirement flying hrs in a sim and thus money could be saved due to not so many days 'lost' to bad weather, tech a/c etc which all ends up adding to the total??? :confused::confused::confused:

i really hope so, would love to become a pilot, but can only come up with about £30K:rolleyes:

CHEERS and happy landings :ok:

[student88]

I'd be very reluctant to part with my money for a licence which is yet to be proven. Just look at the MPL pilots who worked for Sterling. Yes they just happened to be the last through the door but they're also going to find it even harder to find another job compared to the average job seeking pilot.

I'd try not to let your finances dictate what licence you head for! It could end up costing you more in the long run, not just money!

S88:ok:

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Dont underestimate how much a level D sim costs to operate.

Anybody taking this on though should budget over the next 5 years or so some dosh to upgrade to a "proper" license

Any port in this storm

[Adios]

I would think a Level D sim is only required for the type rating at the end. The earlier bits could be done in an FNPT II so long as it is one based on a multi-crew aircraft. That leaves quite a few players able to do all but the TR in house, but maybe FlyBe will subcontract parts to different players. I think the only one they currently have a programme with that has Level D Q400s for the type rating is OAA in Stockholm, but they could just deliver the TR as they do now.

[1800ed]

Is there anywhere I can read about what an MPL is? I'm interested to find out what the difference is between it, and say a CPL or an ATPL because I'm considering my options. (I'm not going to be doing my training for my commercial licence for a least a year or two though!)

[EGHH]

Read through the presentations on here:

Multi-Crew Pilot Licence Forum 2008 (http://www.ftoholdings.com/MPLforum/home.htm)

N.B. FTO Holdings own AFT. Also intersting that this thread which is "invisible" to the bulk of the Rumours & News readers has had no hysteria or chest beating whatsoever...

[Grizzle]

Adios
You are almost there.
The MPL is an approved course and is done in 4 parts, needing the participation of one FTO and one TRTO. The last phase, phase 4 is completed by the TRTO and is a type rating, using a level D sim. Flybe have their own TRTO and their simulators are currently situated at Farnboro.

Flybe will likely introduce the MPL at some stage next year and my money would be on FTE at Jerez.

no sponsor - there is no need to be handcuffed to an airline - just pay for it all yourself and be a free agent :p

Ford Cortina - Flybe do not accept CVs - only on line applications. Any previous schemes have been advertised in Flight with the first point of contact being the FTO.

[G-BFUN]

Hey Guys
I posted a comment on the FlyBE thread but I think it may be more relevant here.
I have a concern in the fact that I am going to start my prof pilot studies late next year and I would dream of a job with FlyBE. I love their outfit and they seem a very decent, reputable employer who are keen on low hours pilots.

My Concern.. With this MPL...
Is the fact that it makes perfect business sense to any airline, you get someone who will stay at the airline, you start the cadet training the airline way from day1. But its a grey area at the moment and my big worry is that I would start on either inte or mod course next winter and then be qualified say beg 2011 being a low hours pilot with a CPL/ ME/ IR/ MCC but half way through your training all the airlines say that they will only take new pilots via their MPL schemes and as a new traditional fATPL holder 6 months later you have no route into any airline as I am sure this MPL would catch on if it is a success.

This is a big concern to me. What does everyone else think?

[angelorange]

If you get an MPL it is specific to the airline - if they choose to ditch you like STERLING did to it's MPLs then you have to find more money to get CPL/IR ATPL(f).

And who will lend you the money?

Go modular and get some life experience instructing, target towing, para dropping, glider towing, bush flying or similar!

[AdamLT]

How much would the MPL cost? And what is different to it other than being airline focused?? I guess it's like the CPL/IR, and a TR on the particular aircraft the airline will want you to fly.

[Grizzle]

Adam

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/344999-flybe-2.html#post4432674

[AdamLT]

Cheers Grizzle :)

[Aerospace101]

Just spotted this in this weeks Flight

Europe's largest regional carrier Flybe has chosen Jerez, Spain-based Flight Training Europe as its partner organisation in creating the first multi-crew pilot licence (MPL) course for a UK-registered airline. The carrier and the flight training organisation are working with the UK Civil Aviation Authority to create an approved MPL course.

Flybe's head of crew training Brian Watt says the first course, which the airline hopes will begin in February, will consist of between six and 12 ab initio trainee pilots. Course graduates will go straight into the co-pilot seats of its Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 turboprop fleet. From 2010 Watt sees the potential for two courses a year, but that will depend on how requirements develop.


Watts says the airline will interview aspiring pilots and put them through a selection procedure. Successful candidates will be offered a bonded contract involving up to £20,000 ($35,700) of funding by the airline, with assistance in financing the rest of the costs.

Wasnt exactly surprised to see FTE get the contract, seeing they have the longest running mentored scheme. Says alot about OAA, cabair and the other training providers they could have gone to...

[xbilz]

when is it going to be advertised or opened up for applying??

[rogerg]

Says alot about OAA, cabair and the other training providers they could have gone to...
Just wait a couple of months, it could all be different.

[Grizzle]

That is true, but it is good to see FTE & Flybe leading the way again.....;)

[5 RINGS]

Aerospace101

Quote:

Wasnt exactly surprised to see FTE get the contract, seeing they have the longest running mentored scheme. Says alot about OAA, cabair and the other training providers they could have gone to...

Unquote.

Only one guy out of 11 was from FTE on my course a few months back...so now tell us what it tells about FlyBe's relationship with other approved schools?

[Grizzle]

5 Rings

That may well have been the case although how many on your course were new starters and came straight from school?

I believe that Flybe's largest supplier of integrated school recruits come from FTE - but not on every course :ok:

Flybe will of course take quality candidates from any source.

[Aerospace101]

From FTEs website

Further details of the course and selection will be announced soon.

[Novaxeth]

If you get an MPL it is specific to the airline - if they choose to ditch you like STERLING did to it's MPLs then you have to find more money to get CPL/IR ATPL(f).

And who will lend you the money?

Go modular and get some life experience instructing, target towing, para dropping, glider towing, bush flying or similar! No, that is not correct. When you are in training to get your MPL-licence you have to do your training with an airline company and be trained on a multi-pilot aircraft. When the course is finished and you have the MPL-certificate in your hand it is NOT airline specific, (which is a misunderstanding and is not correct.) A MPL-pilot can be emplyed in any company, on any multi-pilot aircraft (after type-rating) just as an CPL/IR licence holder.

However, for the moment there is a good idea for those who has a valid MPL-licence to get CPL/IR. MPL is not yet recoginzed by the companies beacuse it is a new licence with new regulations, to increase the chanses to get a job out there it would be a good idea to convert for CPL/IR... In a few years when the amendment is recognized by the companies i don´t think this will be any problem.

[Grizzle]

to increase the chanses to get a job out there it would be a good idea to convert for CPL/IR...

With the Flybe/FTE scheme there will be no need to increase the chances of getting a job. The job will be offered subject to successful completion of the course. Flybe will not be interested or have the resources to train individuals who were not to be employed by the company. They may take on a little 3rd party training work for a small fee :). Flybe will sponsor to the tune of £20K and the training will be a three way partnership. Flybe and FTE will also help with the securing of the funding for the rest of the course. The students bit is to pass the course and then work for Flybe for an agreed period. Should be a win win all round and help those less able to secure private funding get under way in our career. Once the pilot has 'served their time' they would be free to stay/leave or do a type rating with another company. The only advantage of converting to a CPL/IR would be to go and fly single crew aircraft, if that was a desire. That being the case I would suggest the MPL is probably not the way ahead. Each to their own..........

[32SQDN]

From FTE website:

FTE and Flybe Cooperate for MPL Training

FTE is very proud to announce that it has been selected by Flybe, Europe´s largest regional carrier, as its partner to conduct the UK´s first MPL training program. Flybe and FTE are working jointly with the UK CAA to put in place the regulatory requirements for an MPL course to commence in Jerez early in 2009.

The Flybe/FTE MPL course will take ab initio pilots all the way through to the right seat of Flybe´s Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 turbo prop aircraft, using advanced training techniques and simulation.

Further details of the course and selection will be announced soon.

[Maude Charlee]

Wasnt exactly surprised to see FTE get the contract, seeing they have the longest running mentored scheme. Says alot about OAA, cabair and the other training providers they could have gone to...

lol

Don't think OAA will be crying into their Chardonnay just yet. They are the provider for the Flybe E195 TR and recurrent sim training. Contract probably covers some 150 pilots, twice a year, against maybe 12 annually for the MPL.

:ok:

[Novaxeth]

With the Flybe/FTE scheme there will be no need to increase the chances of getting a job. The job will be offered subject to successful completion of the course.Grizzle, you are probably right. But i were mostly thinking about those from sterling that ended up unemployed because of the downturn that suddenly came upon us all... :/ And who knows. Flybe:s students may end up without a job when their course are finished too, and IF they do i ment it could be a good idea to convert to CPL, ME/IR.

But as i said, i only think that is a problem for the moment. In a few years there will be no need for a MPL pilot to convert.

[henshad]

Does anyone worry that the MPL will take over the traditional way of becoming an AIRLINE pilot.
I am just starting my commercial training and it worries me that I may finish and no airline taking on low hours fATPL pilots as they all get their staff from their own MPL courses.
(Esp. as FlyBE are big recruiters of low-hours pilots)

[5 RINGS]

Quote:

That may well have been the case although how many on your course were new starters and came straight from school?

I believe that Flybe's largest supplier of integrated school recruits come from FTE - but not on every course

Flybe will of course take quality candidates from any source.

Unquote:

Not any source I'm afraid...that's a pity for the good guys that trained in non approved FTO, but joining will be much harder, simply because interview slots will be allocated to approved schools first!

On my course, 80% were fresh from school...the vast majority from AOT, one from Cabair (me excluded, because it's not my first job)...and I come across many faces I saw at cabair as well.

Don't oversell FTE, there are other ways to join Flybe.

[G-BFUN]

Do you think you would still have a chance getting an interview with Flybe if you did the self sponsored fATPL course for e.g. with FTE even if FlyBE are running their MPL courses there?

[clanger32]

G-BFUN...
Not being funny, but it's starting to look like you've not read anything that's been written here...I'm probably being unfair and there's just something that hasn't completed the picture for you just yet, so I apologise in advance.

FlyBE (ANY airline that wants to use the MPL route) will be highly unlikely to use only that route to source pilots. This is because they would need to be 100% accurate in their forecasting AT LEAST 15 months in advance. NO airline does this...most struggle with forecasting their requirements 15 DAYS in advance.

Therefore, FlyBE and all the other airlines will - for the moment at least - continue to take fATPL students. HOWEVER, FlyBE have stated that they will only take low hours pilots from the three major integrated FTOs (Cabair, FTE and OAA) and "one stop modular"...namely Atlantic flight training, Coventry, Aeros, Gloucester and PTC, Ireland. I'm sure there are exceptions and slight differences that others will know better than me on, but that is as I understood it direct from Ian Cheese a year ago and backed up on their website (here):
Flybe.com - Pilot sponsorship (http://www.flybe.com/vacancies/pilots_sponsorship.htm)

Therefore, if you have your heart set on FlyBE, and self sponsored, through ANY of the routes named on their website, you'd have as much chance as most others of being successful....I'd hazzard a guess that would be better odds than 'winning' a place on the MPL scheme, which will offer maybe 12 seats initially.

I hope that clears it up...a read through FlyBEs recruitment pages will also be worthwhile.

[potkettleblack]

PAT have aparrently got themselve added as an "approved FTO" as well but haven't made it in lights on the Flybe website. That pretty much covers just about all the decent modular FTO's in the UK that Flybe will hire from!

PAT - Flight school graduates and flight training developments (http://www.pat.uk.com/news.html)

[Grizzle]

Five Rings

I am am not an ex FTE grad and have no wish to 'over sell' them. The fact is there are a lot of them in our crewrooms too. One of their recent starters told me that FTE had stated that Flybe had recruited 25% of all their output in the last two years, therefore

I believe that Flybe's largest supplier of integrated school recruits come from FTE - but not on every course


There are certainly a lot of recruits from Oxford & Cabair amongst other schools too. The reason for the focus on FTE is only because Flybe & FTE have announced the MPL - the subject of the thread.

also

Flybe will of course take quality candidates from any source.


provided they comply with the criteria you suggest :ok:.

Don't oversell FTE, there are other ways to join Flybe.

It would appear you and me both ;)

[G-BFUN]

With the modular approach to Flybe, I have read numerous articles in flight etc that flybe req that your flight training to be done at no more than 2 FTO.

Obviously I will get in touch with flybe to firm it up but was wondering if anyone knew for definite from what stage in your training.

Is it just commercial onwards (after writtens)? e.g.
PPL place A
Writtens fATPL place B
then no more than 2 providers after this for your CPL/ME/IR/MCC?

So tech. from the start you could have done your training in 4 places, your PPL at one place, your writtens ar another, THEN CPL/ME/IR somewhere else, MCC somewhere else as well.

Cheers guys n gals.

Also do you think it makes a big difference if you went with a FTO that is not on flybe's recruitment pages, like Bristol or Stapleford? As they do have Atlantic and Aeros on their website.

[1013 with altsel]

It doesnt make a differance!!!! I was modular and trained at four schools in total! PPl, ATPL exams CPL and IR , MCC. Then got a job with Flybe!!! And I know many others that did the same!

[5 RINGS]

Grizzle,

glad to see the gap between us shrinking ;)

[Maude Charlee]

In analysing Flybe's modular preference for no more than 2 FTOs for training, forget anything and everything to do with PPL stage training.

They are talking about commercial training only, and yes, I believe this also includes the groundschool.

However, remember, Flybe are only one of a large number of airlines/operators where you can start your commercial career. Go down whichever route best suits your circumstances, and which you believe gives you the best chance of gaining that licence. Don't blinker yourselves to just one potential employer, however good a place it may be to get your career underway.

Once you have a certain level of genuine commercial experience under your belt, the world is your oyster and all this will seem trivial and irrelevant. A bit like your school exam results once you've been working for a living for X number of years.

[Mister Geezer]

once you've been working for a living for X number of years.

Eh... 'work' - what is that MC? :}

[Grizzle]

5 Rings
Tres bien ! ;) I wasn't aware of a gap :ok:

[xbilz]

Please stop it here before the thread is hijacked by one FTO and multiple FTO scenarios ..:ugh:

This thread is to discuss and share flybe MPL scheme information. Keep it this way .. please !

Thanks :ok: