Heir Force One

[ORAC]

Also known as One's Air Force.....

Torygraph: Queen prepares to review designs for 'Heir Force One' (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/theroyalfamily/3089751/Queen-prepares-to-review-designs-for-Heir-Force-One.html)

The Queen will review designs for her own £7 million private jet next week, the first of her 50-year reign, it has emerged. Four firms have been approached to build the executive aircraft and are expected to submit their bids on Wednesday.

The Queen is reported to have taken a close personal interest in the new jet's design. It will seat up to 13 people and is likely to include reclining seats embroidered with the royal crest. There is also rumoured to be plans for a compartment on board the craft for The Queen's beloved corgis.

A source told The Sun: "For the first time in her 50-year reign, Her Majesty has decided to buy her own plane. It will be exclusively for her use and that of the Royal Family. She has taken a very personal interest in its design and it's fair to say it will be far from an ordinary aircraft – it will be literally fit for a Queen."

The scheme for an executive aircraft was proposed in the Gershon review into government efficiency and announced in June.

The Queen shares the use of VIP jets with the Prime Minister and senior ministers and travel clashes has often meant she and other royals have been forced to hire other planes at significant cost. Last year, the Royal Family spent £5.5million on official travel, much of it on charter aircraft.

The source added: "From the public's point of view it's good news, as it will save taxpayers' cash. It will be used on official public engagements and be far better value for money."

Learjet, Raytheon Hawker, Cessna Citation and Gulfstream, were the firms chosen to submit their concepts.

The financing of the deal is not yet clear. The Royal Family may buy the plane outright, or it could be funded by the government. Republican critics have referred to the aircraft as Heir Force One.

A Buckingham Palace spokesman said: "The Queen has put this out to tender. The jet will be solely for the Royal Family for official engagements."

[Always a Sapper]

In other words :ok: to you Brown...... well done boss.








(:ok: the closest I could find to the right smilie.... wrong didgit, but I guess you know what I mean)

[PICKS135]

The Queen shares the use of VIP jets with the Prime Minister and senior ministers and travel clashes has often meant she and other royals have been forced to hire other planes at significant cost. Last year, the Royal Family spent £5.5million on official travel, much of it on charter aircraft.

Where does it say on 32[Royal] Sqn minister / PM ??

Betty should take priority over some little money grabber. After all its her train set. She just lets them play with it now and again.

[Dan Gerous]

The Queens S76 visited our town earlier this year, as Princess Anne was doing several engagements in the Borders that day. I went to take some pics of the aircraft and had a good long chat with the crew. One thing that came up was at that time, they were looking to buy a new helicopter, and they were going to get more for the old one than they paid for it, so I would assume it would be a good investment. Hope they paint it in that lovely Maroon colour.

[BEagle]

Just don't let HRH Prince Charles try to fly it.....:uhoh:
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/Internet/zxzxz.jpg

Maybe Wills or HarryH could get type rated on it, once they've passed all 14 CAA exams first, of course...:hmm:

[Lister Noble]

No chance,it's not organic!;)

[minigundiplomat]

HM is worth every single penny. As opposed to the current government who are not worth the steam off my p1ss.

[SMT Member]

7 Million Sterling? Seating capacity for 13? Not going to get much jet for that sort of money, unless it's for the interior decoration only of course!

[spheroid]

Where on earth does she think she will get the money to fund this wasteful project? Shame on her

[Two's in]

She has taken a very personal interest in its design

Would that be like which NACA airfoil delivers the most fuel efficient transonic cruise and whether the deep stall characteristics of a high tail plus the associated empenage mounting complexity outweigh the benefits of the cleaner air control functions? Or would that be shagpile or carpet tiles type of design interest? The Sun makes her sound like she's up in the attic of Buck house with a Blueprint and a Sharpie.

...and at least Raytheon Hawker allow some vestige of British design to continue, however distant it may be these days.

Where on earth does she think she will get the money to fund this wasteful project? Shame on her

If you don't know where the Queen gets her money from by now you haven't really been paying attention.

[taxydual]

So, HM The Queen is putting her hand in her pocket and paying for something that will benefit the country.

That's leadership.


Discuss.











I dare anyone to.

My only caveat. The Captaincy and Crew of the aircraft MUST be serving members of HM Forces.

[spheroid]

Per head the royals are already 17 times more expensive than MPs. The British monarchy is tens of millions of pounds more expensive than comparable elected heads of state in Europe. This constant demand for more public funding is outrageous.

Britain is facing serious financial challenges, people are losing their jobs, the country is getting heavily into debt, yet all the Queen can think about is grabbing more of our hard earned cash.


The true total cost of the monarchy to taxpayers is above £150m a year, equivalent to over 8000 new nurses, 7000 new police officers or 15 new schools

[GreenKnight121]

In other words http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif to you Brown...... well done boss.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/Game%20stuff/rimshot.gif




(http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif the closest I could find to the right smilie.... wrong didgit, but I guess you know what I mean)


I think you mean this: http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/finger.gif
http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/finger.gif

[merlinxx]

It's about bloody time that HRH E-II had a proper dedicated aircraft, not one of the shagged out 125s/146s of 32 (Sorry chaps you are chums, but you ain't the Queen's Flight yet) let alone the 10s or 1011s @ Brize.

It's a disgrace, as HRH is the Head of the Commonwealth she deserves a acft that befits her status. If you disagree, I don't give a sh*te, I'm a Royalist through and through.:ok:

[MReyn24050]

Per head the royals are already 17 times more expensive than MPs. The British monarchy is tens of millions of pounds more expensive than comparable elected heads of state in Europe. This constant demand for more public funding is outrageous.

Britain is facing serious financial challenges, people are losing their jobs, the country is getting heavily into debt, yet all the Queen can think about is grabbing more of our hard earned cash.


The true total cost of the monarchy to taxpayers is above £150m a year, equivalent to over 8000 new nurses, 7000 new police officers or 15 new schools

The Queen is Britain, when I joined the Army all those years ago I signed allegiance to the Queen and I still feel that way. God forbid we loose the Monarchy, Britain will then be even more insignificant that this present Government has allowed us to sink too. I would hate to live in this country if we had a President. Can you imagine Blair or Brown as Preseident? Forgive the rant the above quote just raises my bloood pressure. If this government stopped wasting taxpayers money on other ventures then it would pay for the nurses, police and education. God save the Queen

[taxydual]

Spheroids are round objects.

Round objects are balls.

Endex.

[sanddancer]

HM the Queen is worth every penny, as stated it's a travesty that she doesn't have an aircraft more befitting - and it shouldn't be shared with the likes of Brown etc

[H-D]

Ma'am,

Pm me if you need my services, I am sure we can work out a reasonable deal.

[Runaway Gun]

H-D,

If one can also fly, it would be an advantage :)

[chornedsnorkack]

Learjet, Raytheon Hawker, Cessna Citation and Gulfstream, were the firms chosen

Why no Dassault?

[brakedwell]

Anybody know where I can find a serviceable Heron? :cool:

[knowitall]

"yet all the Queen can think about is grabbing more of our hard earned cash."

the royals recive the civil list in return for the considerably higher income from the Crown
Estates going to the treasury

If someone is of the opinion that we should have an elected head of state as a point of principle, thats an argument i can respect, if not agree with,

Cost however is a pathetic argument for binning the royals Presidnts still cost money to move around and protect, in some cases A LOT more!

[gibbs]

I seem to remember that Katie Price (aka Jordan) was also going to get her own private jet. Perhaps they could pool their combined resources and buy one together. Now there is a sight HRH emerging from a bright pink Hawker 800 with peter Andre carrying the crown jewels !!!!. Or maybe Katie emerging from same pink plane withThe D of E helping her with her crown jewels

[ZH875]

I seem to remember that Katie Price (aka Jordan) was also going to get her own private jet. Perhaps they could pool their combined resources and buy one together. Now there is a sight HRH emerging from a bright pink Hawker 800 with peter Andre carrying the crown jewels !!!!. Or maybe Katie emerging from same pink plane withThe D of E helping her with her crown jewels


Or Jordan holding William's Crown Jewels.:O

[cazatou]

The Old Fat One & spheroid,

Do I understand correctly that when you swore a solemn oath of allegience to HM The Queen and her Heirs and Successors YOU WERE COMMITING PERJURY?

I trust that every penny of "remuneration" that you were given for your "Service" was donated to charity - obviously no-one of your persuasions would wish to accept even a single penny from a Head of State that you so obviously despise.

[Clockwork Mouse]

Dear Fat One,

I quote you from the only thread that you have started on PPrune:

"I left age 47 and took a bite out the pension with resettlement commutation. Although a few years off, I am currently calaculating how much more wonga I need to hoard before I set sail for the land of free Tapas".

I think that statement shows the measure of you. I hope that you still maintain the ambition to emigrate and indeed I encourage you to achieve it without delay. However, you should be aware that the land of free tapas which you are so drawn to is also a monarchy. Please don't let that stop you though. Adios.

[spheroid]

Hear Hear...Me 2


Britain still retains a political culture centred on "Her Majesty's Government" - not ours, but hers, a powerful reminder in days gone by of where our place was in the system. The idea of royal "ownership" continues to pervade this culture and to reinforce the idea that the system is not our own.
Despite the extravagant costs of monarchy, and the increasingly erratic behaviour of the royals, our arguments are concerned with democracy, the principle that this is our country and we should choose our heads of state.
We should have the right to elect and hold to account all who hold public office and such people must remember that they are there to serve us, and not vice versa. It is time to claim the right to our own country and to choose our Head of State.

[muppetofthenorth]

Is it "increasingly erratic" or is it just more widely reported?

It's not as if any of them have started frothing at the mouth and eating raw pigeons, a couple of the younger ones dare to go out and drink, the only reason it's made into a big deal is because people know their names.

[Fareastdriver]

I gather that Obama is raising about $40,000,000 a week to fund his election. That's what I call an expensive head of state.

[Baskitt Kase]

...and such people must remember that they are there to serve us, and not vice versa.Having met and spoken with many of the major royals plus more politicians than I can remember, I would say that on the basis of your criterion, we need to bin the elected officials immediately and keep the royals! Concern for the public is strong amongst the royals, concern for public opinion is strong amongst the politicians.

So, aside from the debunked reqasons concerning cost, public well-being/concern for the public and the erratic behaviour argument that doesn't stand the royals in any worse state that the politicos (rents boys and oranges in the mouth anyone?), what do you have against the monarchy?

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

You don't get much for £7 mil in the executive market unless she wants a puddle jumper or something to fly from Balmoral to Heathrow.

Something with good range like a Bombardier Global Express is around the £40 mil mark and would be more suited to her needs.

I feel someone has underestimated the cost a tad.

[Postman Plod]

What would you do if the public voted the queen head of state?? That WOULD be a conundrum! :}

[BigBusDriver]

I may know FA about military matters, but I do know that a new, equipped Global goes for about US$50m. Still a fair bit more than 7mGBP, but also a lot less than 40mGBP. Granted, that price will climb with the addition of things like bowls for the corgis and lumpy bits to keep HM safe from the bad fellas.

For $13-14m she could get into a Lear 45 or 60 or a Citation X (not new though), but all are smaller than the article mentions. In fact neither Lear nor Cessna make a 13-seater unless you count the crew and go for the economy seating.

The Hawker Horizon would be nice, but that's outside the price range. Not sure exactly what they are going for, but I think it's $22m+. A Gulfstream would be nice too, but $14m goes pretty deep into the used market.

I wonder what sort of price incentives will come along for the manufacturers vying for a Royal Warrant though...?

[merlinxx]

Please do not mention my name alongside Republicanism, I am a Royalist through and through as befits 'Arthur's Little Helper'

[MarkD]

bet there's some jets going cheap in the US these days

spheroid - which other European royal family pulls in the tourist coin the Windsors do, pray tell?

[pma 32dd]

spheroid - which other European royal family pulls in the tourist coin the Windsors do, pray tell?

The Beckhams?? :ok:

[threeputt]

9 Barbel Close, Calne, Wilts. Fecker used to scoff my Koi!

3P:ok:

[Blacksheep]

...unless it's for the interior decoration only of course!Going by the interior she has picked for her previous aeroplanes, it will be quite plain and drab. Royal blue carpets & seat covers, cream walls and a bit of chrome plate in the toilet bowl. She has very modest tastes (eg. gaberdine mac, head scarf, green wellies and agricultural Land Rovers) compared to most of England's beloved "celebrities".

As Prince Phillip once told a VC10 captain "If it doesn't eat hay and fart, she wouldn't be interested."

BS
(Ex-32 'B' Flight)

[Tim McLelland]

It's a sad business. Unless I've missed something, I was under the impression that all of the RAF's aircraft were in fact Her Majesty's. It's quite absurd that she should be considering buying one out of her own pocket. I agree that it's a good move under the circumstances - hopefully it'll stop all the media whining every time she wants to hop on a plane, but what the hell is wrong with this country? Why does the Head of State have to finance her own transport? I'm sure the papers will be able to relax when Her Maj starts turning-up in her own little runabout but really, shouldn't she be stepping out of something a little more substantial, with the words "Royal Air Force" emblazoned across it? Or have we lost every bit of self respect and national pride? Or maybe the media would rather 32 Squadron had some sponsors adverts across their aircraft's fuselages, or multi lingual titles in order to embrace our muiltcultural society. I think I'm going to be sick...

[brakedwell]

As Prince Phillip once told a VC10 captain "If it doesn't eat hay and fart, she wouldn't be interested."

In fact it was a Britannia captain.

[Blacksheep]

I stand corrected.

I heard it from a member of the two winged master race at Bisley, but he was a Sqn Ldr so I just assumed he must be a VC10 pilot...


"I say, are you a REAL Squadron Leader or just a VC10 pilot?"

[Wee Jock]

£7million compared to the £9999999000000000000000000000000000000 that G Brown is promising to save his sorry arse....thats the equivalent of about 4 pence I think. Or a trillionth of a painting in Windsor Castle. She's good for it.

[spheroid]

spheroid - which other European royal family pulls in the tourist coin the Windsors do, pray tell?

World Tourism rankings

1. France - 81.9 Million tourist per year - No Royal Family

2. Spain - 59.2 Million tourist per year - Got a Royal Family even if he is Italian

3. USA 56 Million Tourist per year - Got the Beckhams and the Osbornes

4. China - 54 Million - They have Cao Fang and so don't need royalty

5. Italy - 43 Million - Mara La Bella....who else

6. UK...30 Million Hurray, we made it to the No 6 spot with our very expensive Royal Family....all 43 of them !!!!!

[goofer]

Those who blame the media for unsympathetic coverage of this subject should consider one important PR factor...namely the systematic abuse of public goodwill practised by royal spin doctors to distract attention from the royal family's recent singularly un-royal behaviour. It's counter-productive to invoke service personnels' oaths of loyalty if the people enjoying such devotion consider it a license to pursue their personal agendas at the expense of the national good. By all means let patriotic people express their devotion to the United Kingdom - but please don't ask us to do so as an act of subservience to the Windsors.

[Clockwork Mouse]

What singularly un-royal behaviour would that be then? And what are these personal agendas which are at the expense of the national good?

[BigBusDriver]

Un-royal behavior??

Such as the future King commiting to a career that will actually see him personally saving the lives of future subjects??

Or his brother leading troops in combat??

Personally I have high hopes for the future of this Monarchy and think that Gran deserves whatever shiny jet she wants.

[goofer]

Very fair point, BBD. I’m sorry – the lateness of the hour (and a tinge of Glenfiddich) added an unnecessary grumpiness to my post.

Don’t get me wrong. If I had my way, the Queen would waft around the world in either HMY Britannia or in the stately Filton product of the same name – both immaculately polished by teams of stout craftsmen and commanded by square-jawed demigods of the sea and of the air.

Equally, I suppose, if HM must realistically opt for something small and nippy from Wichita then I have no complaint.

My beef is this: the general public may well see such a purchase – especially in these financially anxious times – as an insensitive indulgence. Us loyal chaps might then berate The Sun that “it’s her train set,” that we’re lucky to have a Queen at all and furthermore she and her fine upstanding relations deserve all the jets they want. But not everybody will agree.

That’s largely because The Sun – and much of the rest of the media – have been trading royal exclusives with royal spin doctors for the best part of twenty years. That’s not least, with all due respect to Sir C Mouse, because some royal employers have thought it ok to borrow political-style methods of news management to suppress or spin stories which might otherwise reflect badly on them.

A sad business indeed. This is no longer the happy era of Queen’s Flight Andovers and a deferential press that goes easy on the royal family because “they can’t answer back.” The modern reality is that today’s royal media managers now get their answering back in first, and the public knows it.

So I suggest we learn to reserve our loyalty (and our royal jets) for the office of the Head of State – not the temporary occupant of that office, however personally ireproachable he or she may be. Our American friends don’t always get everything right but they do at least understand that Air Force One is not Dubya’s personal property but legitimate and necessary official transport for the President...and needs to be funded as such.

The alternative, I fear, is an endless, damaging and demeaning squabble about who pays for royal transport…and security…and leaking palace roofs…and 60th birthday parties….and how guilty/outraged/bored we should all feel about it….now where’s that Glenfiddich?