Aurora Project

[sharksandwich]

Apologies if this subject is in the wrong forum (ie pPruNe), but is there any hard evidence the Aurora Project existed? If so, what happened to it?
Also, are there any genuine ufo stories? (by genuine, I mean genuinely unexplainable).
I should say I am a committed skeptic.

[Gulf4uk]

was not this an ET Type Yank thing flying around a Scottish Airfield so the storys went HYPERSONIC UFO style . GOOGLE has plenty#

Aurora Project Hypersonic Aircraft (http://accelerationresearch.tripod.com/)

and on UTUBE
YouTube - Project Aurora - The Flying Triangle UFO? (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VLkVKKW063s)

One story had an Airfield that disappeared under ground after every
flight NO doubt swept by Nessie near Macrenhenish

so over to the Experts

Tony

[sharksandwich]

I am quite happy for the mods to remove this thread if they feel it is inappropriate.
I have see the stuff on youtube.
I was hopng, since this is a more serious forum, that there might be something that is a little more genuine that pilots or spotters had actually seen
Regards,
shark

[Gulf4uk]

All theses UFO And things on line and in books seem to be more Funny
than serious sorry if sounded sceptical over this one but it was around
for Years not much known about Truth. Something we know is out there
but the Yanks will never Admit it . Where we are FARNBOROUGH many
years ago there were UFO sightings over The RAE and mil areas all
were hushed up until recently but parts of those files were removed
Same i suspect this project there might have been something out there
but the many story's were positively Silly at times . Recent Sightings
of UFO Over UK Very interesting but made look stupid cos it was in
the SUN

Tony

[oversteer]

I am no great lover of conspiracy theories but this clip on youtube was interesting.

YouTube - secret aurora plane trail filmed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_-Tf9ZGDfA&feature=related)

In what ways are vapour trails that look like that generated?

[barry lloyd]

One story had an Airfield that disappeared under ground after every
flight NO doubt swept by Nessie near Macrenhenish

Gulf - did you mean Machrihanish - or were you being deliberately obtuse?

[captain_flynn]

Just out of interest why is Machrihanish not put to good use now? It has a nice long runway but from what i've heard very little flies in and out of there.

[Gulf4uk]

hi

Should have looked the correct spelling for that .Sorry

Tony

[wiggy]

Will someone please explain the fuss about these "mystery" contrails" I flown across the pond behind and below other aircraft often enough to see all sorts of funnies, usually caused by a whole host of either meteorological phenomonem, or just interaction with jetwash or vortices.... I've even seen the "pulse jet" contrail much loved by the conspiracy theorists, trouble was it's always attached to something mundane like a 757, 767 or 747, etc etc...and I really can't see why the contrail in the youtube link is regarded as anything out of the ordinary.

As for Aurora concept itself, lets see, I've got keyhole satellites that have got resolution we here can only dream of, and if I really want to do stealthy fixed wing recon I'm sure it's easier to design some sort of recon package that would fit into the weapons bay of a the likes of the F-117 or the B2 than design something that goes booming along at Mach 5 plus.

I do believe in UFOs, in that people do see things they can't explain or identify, I don't I don't believe in Flying saucers, but I do believe in Machrihanish:}

[EGLD]

From the horses mouth, so to speak

Ben Rich, former head of Skunk Works and lead designer of the U2, SR-71, F-117........etc

"The funding for the competition [between Lockheed/Rockwell and Northrop/Boeing to build a stealthy, long-range successor to the B-1 bomber] came out of a secret stash in the Air Force budget. A young colonel working in the Air Force "black program" office at the Pentagon, named Buz Carpenter, arbitrarily assigned the funding the codename Aurora. Somehow this name leaked out during congressional appropriations hearings, the media picked up the Aurora item in the budget, and the rumor surfaced that it was a top secret project assigned to the Skunk Works - to build Americas first hypersonic airplane. That story persists to this day even though Aurora was the code name for the B-2 competition funding. Although I expect few in the media to believe me, there is no code name for the hypersonic plane, because it simply does not exist."

And earlier in that chapter;

"....during one very slack period in the mid-1980's, the Reagan administration was ready to sign up the Skunk Works on a three-year feasibility study for developing a hypersonic plane, which, by definition, mean a aircraft capable of flying faster than five times the speed of sound. The Reagan science advisors were proposing an airplane that flew at Mach 12 and offered me a million dollars per Mach number to show how it could be done. The trouble was that I couldn't design such a vehicle if they offered me 12 billion. That project was nothing but a simple-minded boondoggle from start to finish."

This book is 13 years old but, Ben Rich was a pioneer of building Stealth aircraft, and was largely responsible for the SR-71's staggering performance, described as being 30 years ahead of its time. I doubt such a plane is even possible using conventional means, I guess that's not to say that there aren't new breakthroughs in technology since then...

Great book by the way, tells the mind-blowing story of the development and use of the SR-71, F-117, U2 aircraft, as well as snippets like the test pilot sent into the desert in a Cessna to find a suitable site for testing secret aircraft projects, say a dry-lake bed for instance, where Skunk Works did their test flights, during which all personnel on the airbase were told to go inside their windowless offices as these aircraft were so top-secret at the time.

Amazon.co.uk: Skunk Works: Ben R. Rich, Leo Janos: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skunk-Works-Ben-R-Rich/dp/0751515035/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222518255&sr=8-1)

[Newforest2]

A little more on the Aurora and a lot more on Machrihanish.

RAF Machrihanish (http://www.dreamlandresort.com/black_projects/machrihanish.html)

[oversteer]

and I really can't see why the contrail in the youtube link is regarded as anything out of the ordinary.

Yes, I made a point today to check out the contrails that got left as we headed toward dusk.. and more than one exhibited this "doughnuts on a rope" effect..

Unless there were lots of Auroras (Aurorae?) flying about :)

[SLF-Flyer]

In the early 90’s, I was in Dunbar (Scotland) looking out to the North Sea while on holiday in August. In the bright sunlight I saw a aircraft that looked like the space shuttle flying at low level at some distance.

It had 5 engines mounted in the tail, 1 at the top, 2 in the middle and 3 at the bottom.

I asked my son’s who were with me, if they had also seen it. Alas they all missed it.

During the winter that year, one of the national papers on a Saturday (Daily Mail or Express) had a report of a strange aircraft being sighted by a oil rig worker, who was also a part time member of the Royal Observer Corps. The line drawing that was with the report was 100% what I had seen. I believe that the same drawing was published in Flight International.

I have tried to find a copy of the newspaper , with no luck so far.

If anyone has a scrapbook of newspaper cuttings about aircraft from the early 1990’s. Please have a look to see if a you have a copy of the drawing.

Do not publish it on the web, as it may still have copyright on it. Just put a note here, that it has been found.

As they say on the X files. The truth is out there.

[staplefordheli]

I used to work up there at the time the wokka went down and one of our guys had a farmhouse next to the Machrihanish perimeter. He swore that something was going on in there in the 80's and early 90s and that he had often heard an unidentifiable engined plane taking off in the early hours when foggy, but that the noise (which was unlike a normal turbine) was lost in seconds as though it had accelerated out to sea at great speed.

Others up there reported strange activity with navy seals seen on the road off the base , however as the yanks were in and out of there, anything was possible (it even had a bowling alley)
I dont doubt that F117s also went in and out of there pre-public unveiling and were responsible for many UFO reports in the North of scotland
If you wanted a base away form prying eyes with no land to fly across to get to remote parts of North America, the Mull has it.
There were even rumours in the town at the time from local coast guard of American personel on scene at the Wokka before any other services arrived there and they all b!!! off staright away. The base was then mothballed in the next few months with the yanks pulling out.
however it could all be overactive imagination in a very remote but scenic place
who knows

[Icare9]

It had 5 engines mounted in the tail, 1 at the top, 2 in the middle and 3 at the bottom.
Er, how does that make 5???
Perhaps it was the Space Shuttle and used as a faster way to get US oil workers to and from the rigs??
Do we have any conclusive proof that other known aircraft or airliners leave these donut on a rope contrails, distinctive noise etc??

[Gulf4uk]

hi

very interesting place funny how one name gets mentioned and
Everyone Seems to know about . Did or does something still go
on there we might never know . Found this as well

http://www.geocities.com/yoda448/area51/aurora.gif

Tony

[oversteer]

Do we have any conclusive proof that other known aircraft or airliners leave these donut on a rope contrails, distinctive noise etc??

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6238/img0052cz9.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0052cz9.jpg)http://img521.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Rubbish pic but taken by myself today at about 6pm. I was near Wycombe, so assume it was something flying over the London TMA.

Now it could have been a coincidence and been Aurora.... I'll have to check the heathrow webtrak tomorrow afternoon! :p

[sharksandwich]

I suppose I was rather hoping the Aurora did exist- perhaps a development of something like the X-33:
Lockheed Martin X-33 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_X-33)
Also, the space shuttle orbits at 17,000mph,which could point to another high speed craft, but since it slows considerably on re-entry (down to the speed of a conventional airliner I believe), I guess the Aurora is just another myth.
EGLD's quote:That story persists to this day even though Aurora was the code name for the B-2 competition funding. Although I expect few in the media to believe me, there is no code name for the hypersonic plane, because it simply does not exist.", and oversteers observations of "donuts on a rope contrails" with conventional craft, seem pretty conclusive to me.
The aurora does nor exist.
Pity, really.
Thanks for all your replies.
shark

[tonker]

About 10 years ago i was in a nightclub in Swindon talking to a B1 bomber crew, and eventually the conversation got round to the Aurora.

"Sir, i don't know what your talking about" drunken burp and slur....

"But that thing goes so fast it takes 3 US states to turn 180 degrees in"

[SLF-Flyer]

Sorry, not good at maths. It should have been six engines.

If anyone can remember the newspaper item and drawing, let us all know.

[ManofMan]

Well here is my two penneth.....we live in an age where most mobile phones have a camera on them, most households have a camera and i am sure that quiet a few have digital capability, we have lenses that can photograph a fly on a cows backside from a mile away. But nobody has ever taken a picture that proves without doubt that UFO's/Secret aircraft actually exist, i have read with great interest this thread but every picture is slightly blurred/distorted ???

There are groups of people who sit outside the likes of area 51 on the lookiout for goverment cover-ups, but not one of them has ever taken a picture to prove without doubt they exsist ???

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Very strange, I've just clicked on this thread, and a black helicopter has landed in the car park. There's a couple of burly chaps getting out of it and they appear to be

[Just a spotter]

Gulf4uk (http://www.pprune.org/members/127026-gulf4uk)

The image posted reminded me of the "theory" surrounding a two stage launch vehicle (a-la space ship one and white knight) using a derivative of the XB-70 Valkyrie as the carrier.

JAS

[pinpoint]

Hey Sharksandwich...

I have talked to a few people whom have seen and viewed the Aurora Project up close. Two from one of the planes subcontractors, another from a Base official and another individual, whom was a ranger stationed at Groom Lake AFB who viewed the plane. So there is ample evidence that the plane still exists.

Pinpoint

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I have talked to a few people whom have seen and viewed the Aurora Project up close. >>

More hearsay. Just about every book on UFOs is based on 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand stuff but there is no conclusive evidence (and I'm a "believer"!). Let's have some pictures.......

[chevvron]

The film of the contrail shows a perfecty normal contrail, whilst the remark in the 'RAF Macrihanish' link says 'brown structure function unknown' - it's the station water tower fer chrissakes!!

[Skyfan]

Whilst governments still build stuff and people take an interest there will be UFO reports. Just take a look at the 'X' designations and see how many there are. Was the SR-71 'normal' for it's time? If you saw it today would you not think 'What the hell is that?' My brother once saw it at (as I understand it) one of its very limited UK appearences and it was still glowing orange/red on approach.

An AV enthusiast or pilot/crew might look at a B2 and see the general evolution involved, but what about joe average? I was stunned by it and I've been a spotter since I was knee high to the family dog.

I generally disregard anything that involves LGM or the various 'abduction' scenarios as complete tosh. Anything that's accompanied by half the worlds special forces and a fleet of helicopters is, er, not exactly discreet.

But in many cases I think there is a grain of truth at the core of many UFO sightings. I just don't happen to think that the truth is 'out there', it's far more likely to be sitting in a wildly expensive shed somewhere with boffins crawling all over it.

[aviate1138]

Skyfan said in part
"My brother once saw it at (as I understand it) one of its very limited UK appearences and it was still glowing orange/red on approach."


Aviate 1138 doubts the veracity of that statement.
What was your brother smoking? SR 71's don't glow red hot approaching any airfield!!!!!
Was it near sunset? SR71's made a number of flights from the UK. Upper Heyford, Macrihanish, Mildenhall, Sculthorpe even afaik. For many years.

If the human race is cursed, it is cursed with having a brain that must find a solution to every problem. Hence religion, chemtrails, Area 51, ghosts, global warming etc.

Glad to see the pics back from the moon showing various Apollo leftovers. Better res pics due to hopefully shut up the fake moon landing conspiracy theorists once and for all/ever.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<it was still glowing orange/red on approach>>

Well, that has to be the funniest thing yet on here!!

However, let's keep the pot boiling... An ex-RAF controller who, sadly, is no long with us, was talking to an RAF Nimrod one night over western Scotland. The crew asked if there was any other known traffic as they believed they had something close underneath them. Nothing was known to ATC..... until the target of the Nimrod "split" and the second one shot off out to sea at incredible speed. The controller who told me this was a reliable, decent person who was as curious as the Nimrod crew. Think what you like....

[Skyfan]

Do you not have anything better to do than criticise every detail of everyone elses posts (and PM them into the bargain, just to make sure they get the point - HEATHROW DIRECTOR)

Did I claim to have seen it myself - please read it again. Do I claim to be an expert in any form of aviation - er, no because I'm not.

The incident in question occured at an airshow ( I BELIEVE sometime in the early to mid 70's just after I was born, sadly I didn't make a note of the details) when the aircraft in question was not due to appear but in fact diverted from other business to give people a bit of a show.

It had APPARENTLY come from some distance at one hell of a rate of knots en-route and passed over the airfield, thus the 'approach' I refer to was not an approach to the airfield but an approach to the show, before exiting very soon after (very convenient, yes, but also true). I ommited absolute specifics as it was purely an illustration of some of the stranger aspects of aviation and the potential for 'mythology' therein, NOT a claim to have witnessed the event.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Skyfan.. What on earth are you talking about? I looked at my PMs OUT box and it reveals, in recent weeks, one PM to you about scanners, one to someone about their medical query, one in response to someone who thanked me for some input, one about FISO work and 2 to a friend who had offered me a ride in his aeroplane. I also offered in-forum what I thought was a helpful response to you about aircraft possibly doing crew-training.

As for the red-hot SR-71.... it was a joke, right? Aviate1138 seems to agree with me. Did I say anything suggesting that YOU had seen it? Please read my post again.... and who said anything about you being or not being an expert?

[Skyfan]

HEATHROW DIRECTOR,

Yes, the PM I refered to is the one about scanners and not related to this thread. Perhaps I misread your intent and if so I apologise, but as my first post on these forums I felt the PM was a little heavy handed. This may have led me to overreact to the above comment re 'the funniest thing yet' - I was simply recounting part of a tale that I was once told.

I'm a born sceptic when it comes to unidentifed craft and all the mubo jumbo often associated with them, perhaps I should apply the same rigour to unverified reports :ok:

[Whitehatter]

There's an old chestnut which is attributed to someone who was very senior at the Skunk Works, which goes that whatever is in the public domain is actually fifty years or so behind what they are actually doing in their highest security research facilities.

The US military budget is so vast that money can easily be shunted into corners for this stuff. I'm sort of excited that there are amazing things out there in the "black" that represent the sort of advances that will keep aviation progressing, rather than the boring tube-and-two stuff the civil airframers are cranking out.

[The_Steed]

I think that there is little doubt that the US have been building something but there is a lot of mis-information about exactly what.

From what I've read, the best evidence was that collected by the USGS which showed something creating massive sonic booms across the US.

Apparently the only known thing which could create booms like them was the space shuttle after re-entry and it wasn't flying on those occasions...

[coldair]

Hi all,

If you want all the MOD info on UFOs you will find it here;

Fascinating reading !


Ministry of Defence | Freedom of Information | Publication Scheme | Search Publication Scheme | Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) in the UK Air Defence Region - Result of Internal Review (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UnidentifiedAerialPhenomenauapInTheUkAirDefenceRegionResultO fInternalReview.htm)

Here is the summary of the report, note the MOD says UFOs (UAPs) definately exist.
http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/7D2B11E0-EA9F-45EA-8883-A3C00546E752/0/uap_exec_summary_dec00.pdf

[Dr Jekyll]

The second page and no mention of the 'Boscombe Down Incident' yet!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Oh yes.... what really happened at Boscombe?

[Saracen87]

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1259/dsc3522.pngNewly Newly signed up to pprune and just noticed this conversation as I spend most of my time on the military and private flying forums. Anyways it jogged my memory of a photo ive got taken by someone else granted, but it is interesting, and still got the file. I used to frequent this other military aviation forum (cant remember now, but i think its a deadlink now) and a newly signed up guy with supposedly no interest or background in aviation, posted a photo he took on his digital camera that he wanted identifying. Taken in the states somewhere, cant remember exactly now but on the western side. This inevitably led to some saying it could be Aurora and wot not. Not sure if im convinced something like that exists but it is an interesting looking thing. Anyway will attach a scaled down photo as the original file is far too big to even send via email, dont know if this will work as you need to zoom in and its the first time ive uploaded images so bear with me. The original is better quality. If anyone wonts a better version pm me.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Looks like an A330, or similar, with the sun glinting off it's engines!

[Saracen87]

Could be but the tail configuration is hard to explain. I thought maybe a mig 25, I hear theyve been flown out of test ranges in America.

[fchan]

Codlair, you statement is misleading. Whilst the report says they exist, it says they are not caused by a foreign nation or an extraterresial, but rather something like a plasma caused by unknown atmospheric effects. So it’s an unidentified weather/electrical phenomena but not any sort of plane or spacecraft.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

My wife, a keen spotter, just walked in as I was looking at the piccy. "Nice A330 with the sun glinting off its engines" she said!!!!! Honestly!!

Maybe you'd better upload a high res version....

[Saracen87]

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8392/dsc3522enhanced.tifCant Cant put the higher res up yet. Just remembered its on my old comp which i need to dig out. Will do it later as off out in a sec. But ive got a copy which I enhanced a bit. Not saying it isnt an airbus btw but im still intrigued. You may need to copy it and zoom in on photoshop or something to get a good view.

[Saracen87]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1403/dsc3522enhanced.pngSorry just realised it would still be rubbish quality if u zoomed in. This will give u a better idea. Have to go now but will upload better ones later if anyone wants them.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

OK.. but it still looks like a civil airliner to me, certainly nothing to generate any excitement here.

[captain_flynn]

I agree with Heathrow Director, its probably an A330.
Definitely an airliner type though.

[BOAC]

More importantly - what are all those black flying saucers?

[Skyfan]

They'll be the cleverly disguised special ops choppers. ;)

[Saracen87]

Yea, it probly is something boring but thought it would be good to get the forums take on it.

[aviate1138]

Just South of Farnborough, Hants on August 2nd 07:20 local I look up and see that at least 15 Auroras have overflown in the previous hour or so. Can't be the same one trying to confuse me because they take so long to do a 180, don't they? :rolleyes:

Doughnuts anyone? Sorry, Donuts.

Now how did they manage the silent booms?

All together,

"I see a Contrail and you see a Chemtrail......"

[con-pilot]

Just South of Farnborough, Hants on August 2nd 07:20 local I look up and see that at least 15 Auroras have overflown in the previous hour or so.

Now that is just not true. :*

Hell, we only have ten of them lef...............err, never mind. :\

[Cpt_Pugwash]

Slight digression maybe, but perhaps the forum members can have a try with this (http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/latestheadlines/4522450.Is_this_really_a_UFO_over_Westbury_/) ...

We get lots of low-level Hercules over this way, but I can't say I've seen the other object.

[crackling jet]

There was an item on BBC1 several weeks ago on Sunday morning 7-8.00 o' clock ish, where they go through the most viewed U Tube clips, one of these clips taken from a weather satalite showed what they discribed as a vapour trail starting over California tracking over Pacific towards Japan very near to asian northern hot spot of the moment, then turning back to nearly three quarters of the way back to point of departure. it said that owing to the time window of the satalite, the object must have been moving at incredible speed to be able to observe the full length of the vapour trail.

A second point of view is, would they have got rid of an asset such as the SR71 without a suitable replacement, as a few years ago when they extended the retirement date due to gulf situation, stating that it was a useful asset due to time required to retask a satalite, when the SR71 could be airborne and on it's way in a fraction of the time.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Crackling jet, do you perhaps have a link for this video ? Have tried youtube etc, but there seems to be no mention of this at all. Perhaps it was 'pulled' ? Nonetheless, I'm curious enough to see it.


SHJ

[Skyfan]

Report on BBC today about official release of UK government docs. Apparently a low-flying 'UFO' sighting in 1993 over Devon/Cornwall area may well have been some sort of classified aircraft type, and that's official.

It might also have been a Russian rocket on re-entry but both were expected in the area. Of course, they didn't say that at the time....:)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Slightly off topic, for which apologies, but those recently released papers also dealt with the Rendlesham Forest incident. Can someone please confirm that Lt Col Halt later admitted that it was a hoax? I'm sure I've seen that somewhere..

[panda-k-bear]

Did Aurora exist or not? Who knows. There's one conspiracy theory that has it that the YF-23 was actually "Aurora". There is one oddity, though, that I've never seen satisfactorily explained - mainly because I never bothered to look.

Why did a YF-23, or something that looks very like one, crash at Boscombe Down back in September 1994? What was it doing there? What actually was it?

There's no real possibility of denial - there are photos of the thing with the back end covered in a tarp, nose section sticking out. I still have the edition of Air Force's Monthly with the photos in it. A C-5 was alleged to have shown up pretty sharpish and carted it off. The RAF denied the C-5 had visited, supposedly, but I'd have thought C-5s were a bit hard to miss.

So what was that all about then?

p-k-b

[sharksandwich]

UFO files: secret US spy plane Aurora could be behind sightings - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6039934/UFO-files-secret-US-spy-plane-Aurora-could-be-behind-sightings.html)


and Redlesham Forest:
Rendlesham Forest incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendlesham_Forest_Incident)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

sharksandwich.. Thanks for the links. I have the book "Left at East Gate", which is very interesting. Just can't get out of my decrepit brain that the whole episode was a hoax...... just like the Gulf Breeze Sightings.

Back to Aurora.... the Boscombe Down incident is detailed here: RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day (http://www.dreamlandresort.com/black_projects/boscombe.htm)

[hoodie]

But where are those photos, panda-k-bear?

I've followed that Boscombe Down story for years, in some detail, and have never seen the photos that you describe. Their existence is often claimed, but when challenged nobody quite seems able to find them...

It has often been discussed, with much plausibility, that the "object wrapped in tarpaulin" was actually the rolling dummy ship's flight deck device that had recently been moved from DRA Bedford.

Many of the other assertions in "RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day" don't stand up to much scrutiny, either. For example, the C-5's arrival was more than a few days later, and there is compelling evidence (from civil ATC) that it had been expected for some time, as it was returning UK aircraft from a trial on the other side of the Atlantic.

In fact, there seems to be no evidence whatsover that anything crashed at Boscombe in Sep 94; the whole thing seems to hinge on a Wilts police closure - in broad daylight, not at night - of the A road that passes under the 05 threshold, due to a recovering fast jet with a particularly sticky in-flight problem.

2+2=55, for much of the claims in that article.

"Aurora" may or may not exist - my guess is that something fascinating almost certainly does - but an incident at BD in September 1994? I don't think so.

[Skyfan]

Regards the Col. Halt denial, I remember reading a fair bit of stuff at the time it became big news (as you do).

If I remember it right, he did initially believe it which prompted the infamous memo. He then was made to look like a bit of a prat for claiming UFO's were visiting US bases and told to drop it, by which point the memo's existence was suspected.

Halt then decided to deny it completely as a variety of people went after the memo, a position he maintained for several years.

He then decided to 'go public' after leaving USAF, maintaining the original account based on his memo was accurate and making a few TV shows based on it.

Obviously a lucrative business this close encounter stuff....

[panda-k-bear]

But where are those photos, panda-k-bear?

I've followed that Boscombe Down story for years, in some detail, and have never seen the photos that you describe. Their existence is often claimed, but when challenged nobody quite seems able to find them...

It has often been discussed, with much plausibility, that the "object wrapped in tarpaulin" was actually the rolling dummy ship's flight deck device that had recently been moved from DRA Bedford.

Many of the other assertions in "RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day" don't stand up to much scrutiny, either. For example, the C-5's arrival was more than a few days later, and there is compelling evidence (from civil ATC) that it had been expected for some time, as it was returning UK aircraft from a trial on the other side of the Atlantic.

In fact, there seems to be no evidence whatsover that anything crashed at Boscombe in Sep 94; the whole thing seems to hinge on a Wilts police closure - in broad daylight, not at night - of the A road that passes under the 05 threshold, due to a recovering fast jet with a particularly sticky in-flight problem.

2+2=55, for much of the claims in that article.

"Aurora" may or may not exist - my guess is that something fascinating almost certainly does - but an incident at BD in September 1994? I don't think so.

Fair enough... it just seemed, 15 years ago, remotely credible, unlike a lot of other "incidents". Obviously after all that time there's a lot more data and information available - and I haven't looked into it for 15 years but you evidently have, so there you go - another one conclusively disproved.

p-k-b

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Skyfan.. agreed and thanks for confirming what I had heard. Wish I'd written a few books in the past !!

Regarding pictures.. I've been interested in UFOs for nigh on 60 years and I've yet to see a convincing photograph or video of a "true" UFO. I'm not sure that such pics exist. Somebody showed me a video clip recently of what was supposed to be an unusual craft - which it might well have been - but it had a flashing red anti-collision beacon suggesting that it did not originate from outside of Earth! I live in hope, though.

[sharksandwich]

Rather sadly, this thread confirms what I believed - no Aurora, no UFOs.
On a forum dedicated to those who spend their working lives in the sky, and those whose pastime is looking at the sky, nothing to support the existance of UFOs or "secret" experimental aircraft has been seen or reported.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I was involved in several UFO incidents during my time in ATC but I have put details on here several times so nothing new I'm afraid. Two at Heathrow and two abroad. Those abroad were impossible to explain and one still frightens me to think about some 40+ years later.

[SpringHeeledJack]

For those that might have missed these tales, how about recounting them again on this thread HD ?



SHJ

[chevvron]

Just a few points from 'RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day'(#59)
1: Since when has it been an RAF Station? It's operated by MOD/DPA not MOD Air.
2: 500 - 510 mhz is I believe in UHF TV transmission territory - hardly suitable for confidential communications!
3: Boscombe test flying callsign is 'Gauntlet'. 'Tester' is used by the Empire Test Pilot School, and Blackbox was originally the callsign of the Radar Research Unit at Pershore, which moved to Bedford then Boscombe.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

And Chevvron really knows what he's talking about guys...

[sharksandwich]

HEATHROW DIRECTOR, I agree with Spring Heeled Jack!
I have tried to find your previous posts and failed to find them.
If you have seen unexplained things, could you recount some of them here, please? Or put in a link?

[sharksandwich]

Information from HEATHROW DIRECTOR with his permission:

UFO EXPERIENCES

North Africa. Late 1960s.

I was employed as an Air Traffic Controller at an international airport, located some distance inland from the city. There was no radar equipment at the airport. However, a large military air base located nearby had extensive radar facilities where my colleagues worked under contract to the military. One of their tasks was the provision of Area Radar Control for which my unit was the Area Control facility controlling the large TMA.

Basic ATC procedures called for us to telephone the radar unit and provide them with all flight plans and estimates which we received from the parent ATCC in Malta. In this way the radar unit was updated with all aircraft movements and had them readily to hand should we telephone for radar assistance. (In those days the procedural controller ran the show and the radar controller was there to provide assistance when required).

The boundary of our TMA was approximately 100nm around the airfield and all aircraft movements were “known”, i.e. nothing moved without our knowledge. There was a mixture of civil commercial operating into the airfield where I worked, military transports and fighters for the military base and a mix of overflying traffic. The only other aviation activity was one or two helicopters and a few light aircraft operated by a local flying club.

Incident 1 It was during a night shift, when the only aviation activity was overflying traffic operating between Europe and various African destinations, amounting to about a dozen movements during the night hours. As usual, Malta ATCC routinely provided us with estimates on all traffic passing through our area and we, in turn, passed these to the radar unit. During the very early hours the telephone line from the radar unit rang – an extremely unusual occurrence as we rarely needed radar assistance for overflying traffic and the controllers were able to rest before the morning rush. The military ATC assistant had been idly watching the radar and had seen an aircraft approaching from the northwest and rang us to obtain details. We had no information so we contacted Malta ATCC. They too had no information but requested information from the ATC authority for the country over which the object was flying. This proved negative.

The radar unit ATC assistant continued to monitor the situation and soon alerted his controller. At this stage the object was moving fairly fast, but not unduly so, and could easily have been a conventional jet aircraft. However, soon after, the military GCA facility telephoned to say they were also watching the object, which was by then heading directly for the airbase. The military began to get nervous and went into an alert phase prior to declaring a full evacuation – a major event by any standards. GCA soon reported that they had the object on the PAR element and it was very low, apparently making an approach to the base. The object – a bright light - overflew the air base in full view of the tower controllers but without there being any noise. It then turned south and flew off towards the desert, accelerating to the sort of speed which, at the time, no conventional aircraft could achieve (I recall a figure of 1300 kts being mentioned). Soon it had gone from radar cover. All the controllers involved were seriously shaken by the incident.

We discussed the matter for a long time after the event but no explanation was ever forthcoming. The radar controllers (Area and GCA) were all experienced with fast jet traffic; the area controllers had all worked with RAF V-bombers using bombing ranges in the nearby desert and were far busier with military jets than they were with civilian flights. The event remains a very disturbing mystery.

Incident 2 Following the closure of the civil airport for some days, I was the first controller to return to duty – for a night shift, primarily to oversee the departure of a VIP flight around midnight.

Basic facts are: The aircraft was cleared for take off on a north facing runway. As it started to roll, an extremely bright ball of light appeared to the east of the airfield, apparently just above ground level. To me it appeared stationary. However, as it was such an extraordinary event I alerted the crew as they rolled down the runway and they acknowledged that they had the object in sight. Soon after the aircraft took off the light vanished and the aircraft was later transferred to an en route frequency.

A week later I met the (British) pilot of the jet in town and he immediately spoke about the object. As they had lifted off it was apparent that the bright light was moving at some considerable speed towards them and had seriously frightened the crew. However, as they climbed away it remained beneath them and disappeared.

At the time of the event I made as many enquiries as I could with the limited resources available to me. The area from which the object had come was largely “desert” with virtually no habitation apart from shanty villages. There was no military activity there and certainly no other aircraft flying at the time. The local military offered no explanation and were as shaken as me.

Incident 3 Still in Africa but not quite as exciting, more curious – particularly in view of Incident 8 in this piece. Afternoon shifts were always quiet for the first couple of hours with just a few scheduled commercial jets and maybe one or two smaller aircraft flying about. It was a bright, sunny day and I wandered out on to the tower balcony. I saw a bright shining object in the sky, not much bigger than a pinhead, and alerted my Watch Supervisor (an ex-RAF Canberra pilot). One look through the binoculars and he announced: “It’s just a met balloon”, and walked inside to ring the met office, which was just one floor down. The met people had no information and were unaware of any ascent in the area. We made enquiries to the nearby military air base and everywhere else we could think of (not many out there!) but drew a blank. Air traffic started so we logged the event and got on with our work.

Incident 4 A week or two later as we were driving in for another afternoon shift my Supervisor joked: “Be funny if that UFO was still there!” Incredibly, it, or something very similar, WAS there! We passed the information to our colleagues on other watches but there were no other reports of the stationery shining ball.

oooOOOooo
Oxford Airport 1971

Incident 5 Upon return to the UK I was employed at Oxford Airport and was there at the time the “UFO” was recorded by a TV crew. I can’t recall too much – just a very fast moving trail in the sky. It’s probably documented elsewhere.

oooOOOooo

Heathrow

Incidents 6 and 7 Both occurred during my time at Heathrow. Unfortunately, without access to the ATC logs I cannot provide too many details. The incidents were logged and investigated at the time and, so far as I know, no explanations were forthcoming.

6. UK registered passenger jet in, or close to, the Ockham holding area. The crew reported seeing an orange disk shaped object pass close to their aircraft. Nothing was seen on radar. When the aircraft landed the Captain contacted ATC and it was decided that the best way to get the matter properly investigated was to file it as an airmiss rather than as a UFO report. I believe the resulting thorough investigation to have been inconclusive.

7. Foreign-registered passenger jet near Lydd reported a “missile-shaped” object passing close by. I do not know the result of any investigation.

Update: This note, obtained from another Internet site, refers to item 7 above:

21st April 1991, whilst approaching the English coast as captain of a Alitalia McDonnell Douglas MD-80 Achille Zaghetti and his co-pilot sighted a 10 foot long, brown coloured missile-shaped object which crossed directly in from of them at 22,000 ft. altitude. The event took place at 8-00 p.m. and Zaghetti contacted Air Traffic Control who confirmed that they had an unknown target on radar.

oooOOOooo
Finchampstead 2004

Incident 8. On the afternoon of 6th September, 2004, whilst my wife and I were taking afternoon tea in our garden and watching the aircraft heading for Heathrow (09L for landing), my attention was drawn to something glinting in the sky directly above us which I assumed to be a high-flying aircraft, but it was hardly moving. Prolonged examination through powerful binoculars revealed what appeared to be a shiny metallic “ball” and the focus adjustment of the binoculars suggested that it was somewhat higher than the high over-flying aircraft which could be seen passing nearby. The “ball” would fade and almost vanish from sight and then, seconds later, become so bright that it was clearly visible to the naked eye and too bright to look at through the binoculars. I contacted our son – a keen amateur astronomer living near Portsmouth – to ask if any “stars” could be viewed in daylight, for that is exactly what it appeared to be to the naked eye. He assured me that it wasn’t a star (and it wasn’t twinkling either). Venus and Jupiter – the only objects which I would imagine to be bright enough – were both above our horizon, but not close to the position of the object. (I checked the location of the planets using my Starry Night computer programme). It certainly was not a satellite either – these are not, to my knowledge, visible in bright sunlight and they usually move fairly rapidly across the sky.
I had no idea who else to contact. I wondered if it might be a meteorological or other type of, balloon... but its movement was against the wind, which ruled out that possibility.
We watched the object over our garden on and off for over 45 minutes – occasional passage of clouds obscuring our view - but we could not locate in it in the night sky later that evening due to the many stars which were visible.
Although the upper wind was blowing from the east, albeit at low speed, the object drifted towards the east, traversing maybe 5 degrees of sky in the 45 minutes or so during which we watched it. When we first saw it, it was slightly northeast of overhead and moved almost imperceptibly eastward during the period of observation.
See Incidents 3 and 4 above.

[sharksandwich]

Some ufos may be due to natural phenomena which we have yet to fully understand.
I recall the "foo fighters"( Foo fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter) ) have been linked to earthquake lights( Earthquake light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake_light))( YouTube - 30 mins before the 2008 Sichuan earthquake in China (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKMTSDzU1Z4) )(there was apparently seismic activity in the area about the time they were seen).
Also, I have seen what is usually described as "ball lightening" in my house -a white glowing ball about the size of a grapefruit, about two foot off the floor moving through a room and disappearing through a wall - this was witnessed on two occasions by a visitor, who was as goggle-eyed as myself. This occurred for three nights in succession and then stopped (I should say my house is NOT built on the site of an old Native American burial ground!).
Obviously not a ufo,but an un-expained occurence, and one which I would dismiss as imagination if I had not seen it myself.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Might the last example of HD's list have been a satellite in geosynchronous orbit ? Perhaps even one of those 'nosey' ones that peek over our shoulders ? The pulsating of the light might have been the solar panels and/or antennae moving ? I certainly have seen a satellite or two in the daylight before, actually the ISS and that American spy satellite that came down through the atmosphere a year or two ago (by complete chance).

The other of the attacking light from the desert...... that must have been freaky, especially as it was plausible that the USSR might have been the attacking 'aircraft'. Were there any 'experimental' or secret aircraft at the time that might have been under test to see how they might fare in war conditions ? Obviously with the passing of time such information might have come to light contained in released records.

Any thoughts gents ?

[sharksandwich]

..and ball-lightning:

Caught on camera: The 40-mile lightning bolt that shot UPWARDS from storm cloud | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1208711/Caught-camera-The-40-mile-lightning-bolt-shot-UPWARDS-storm-cloud.html)

[Two_Squirrels]

Why did a YF-23, or something that looks very like one, crash at Boscombe Down back in September 1994? What was it doing there? What actually was it?

There's no real possibility of denial -
So what was that all about then?


Like all conspiracy theoreis, what starts as one simple incident, gets snowballed out of all proportion due to soemone (generally who desperatly wants to belive something in the first place) adds 2 and 2 togther, and makes a huge number. For what it is worth, and people who believe the conspiracy theory will not believe me, I worked at Boscombe at that time and can perhaps shed sone light on some of the bits of the equation:

1. There was an incident on a Tornado which was doing trilas with a towed decoy, which failed to retract, hence the shutting of the main road outside the base.
2. There are generally American exchange pilots at Boscombe (at the time, it was Rick Husband I think, the shuttle commander during the Colombia accident).
3. A C5 was at Boscombe to take (or bring back) a helicopter from AUTEC.
4. The unmarked Boeing 707 was an Italian Air Force tanker at Boscombe for AAR trials.
5. The Agusta 109 was at Boscombe for trials.
6. The Gulfstream was a VIP aircraft. (Interesting aside. It was Tom Cruise visting Nicole Kidman who was in the local area making a film. Heale House- Portrait of a Lady).
7. The rolling deck was just being delivered from Bedford. Covered in tarpaulin.

All of these things happened in the space of a few days. As I said 2+2 is a huge number

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Thanks for that Two Squirrels; sets the record straight. Alas, the bananas won't believe you and will insist it's all part of the cover up!!

There's a UFO book by a British author (for whom I once had some regard) which details a "cover up" by Heathrow ATC. The extraordinary thing was that I was "in" on the Heathrow end and what was written in the book was complete rubbish! When I showed the book around to those involved you could have heard us laughing from the M4..

[chevvron]

Trying not to advertise; would that be a goode book?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Chevvron.... Yes, T. I loaned my copy to someone and never saw it again but I recall that it showed a copy of the letter received from Heathrow ATC, which I was involved in!

[chevvron]

I've got a copy somewhere in the recesses of my loft so I haven't read it for years. Bought it at an Antique fair about 20 years ago. I first learnt about Area 51 and Bob Lazar's claims from this, and of course, what Lazar saw and worked on could be something to do with the subject matter!!

[chevvron]

You have to laugh at some seemingly genuine 'reports' though; f'rinstance there was the magazine article where the writer had visited the Farnborough Air Show and claimed he'd heard noises 'from the secret underground hangars'!! (NB the water table is about 6 inches below the surface), and the stuff Jenny Randles wrote about the Rendlesham Incident (Bentwaters); there was the 'mysterious' de-foliated areas at the end of the runway, and the civilian electrician who was called out to trace a fault in the airfield lighting and who was under armed guard while on the base (a USAF base where he had no pass)

[panda-k-bear]

Like all conspiracy theoreis, what starts as one simple incident, gets snowballed out of all proportion due to soemone (generally who desperatly wants to belive something in the first place) adds 2 and 2 togther, and makes a huge number. For what it is worth, and people who believe the conspiracy theory will not believe me, I worked at Boscombe at that time and can perhaps shed sone light on some of the bits of the equation:

1. There was an incident on a Tornado which was doing trilas with a towed decoy, which failed to retract, hence the shutting of the main road outside the base.
2. There are generally American exchange pilots at Boscombe (at the time, it was Rick Husband I think, the shuttle commander during the Colombia accident).
3. A C5 was at Boscombe to take (or bring back) a helicopter from AUTEC.
4. The unmarked Boeing 707 was an Italian Air Force tanker at Boscombe for AAR trials.
5. The Agusta 109 was at Boscombe for trials.
6. The Gulfstream was a VIP aircraft. (Interesting aside. It was Tom Cruise visting Nicole Kidman who was in the local area making a film. Heale House- Portrait of a Lady).
7. The rolling deck was just being delivered from Bedford. Covered in tarpaulin.

All of these things happened in the space of a few days. As I said 2+2 is a huge number


Guess that puts that one to bed, then.

Like I said, it's a long time since I saw the article but I do have it at home somewhere. It's more a case of 2+2+2+1 making a very big number. If a conspiracy theorist wanted to make something of it, then you can see how it might happen with an addled (beer infused?) brain.

Do I believe in UFOs? Absolutely yes.

By definition if an object is flying and I can't identify it, then to me it is a UFO. If someone else can identify it, then no, it's not a UFO to them.

Do I believe in little green men? No.

Do I believe there are other life forms out there? Maybe. But what I do believe is that it's very arrogant of our species to believe that no other intelligent life can exist out there.

Is their technology being used in Aurora? Erm, no.

[DADDY-OH!]

Just a few niggles that remain 'unanswered'.

1). I understand the Gulfstream was flight planned in from & out to White Sands, New Mexico & registered to an Aerospace company affiliated to EG&G.

2). The C5 WASN'T already due in as it's assigned duty was changed while on the ground at 'The Hall'. It was due to fly full of freight from Mildenhall the next day but within hours of the Boscombe Incident it was re-assigned, crew briefed & they told the ground crew to defuel the aircraft as it was "...hopping about 30 mins down the road but didn't know if they could refuel there so they wanted enough to get there, get out again with the load & meet a tanker...". I met the Crew Chief at RAF Lakenheath Flying Club a couple of years afterwards & he was remarkably candid about things.

3). The reports of people living near Boscombe hearing a strange noise or strange aircraft landing that night in particular. It was a Tornado was it? That's hardly a strange type with a strange engine sound as Tonkas had operated into & out of Boscombe for years.
However an experienced ATCO working his radar unit saw a 7700 squark pop up & overheard the American pilot asking London Mil' for a Military or Government Airfield with an east/west orientated runway of 7000 feet or longer. He was given options in terms of bearing & distance before eventually settling on Bos'. The controller concerned is a long standing friend & ex-colleague of a good friend of mine, we all talked about the Boscombe Incident on a number of occasions.

4). I heard a US tanker crew member late one night in December 1995 over East Anglia commit the one embarrasment all pilots commit at one time or another which is transmit on the wrong box, which wasn't so embarrassing but his words ring clear to me to this day. There were 3 tankers Quid 51,52 & 53 returning to Mildenhall . And one of them said "...yeah, we've just heard, the bird is back in the barn...". We were north of Waddo at around 7-9000' & could see the strobes & lights at both the 'Heath & the 'Hall.

5). A former schoolmate of mine who works for BAe & knows the aforementioned ATCO was called to Boscombe to fix something on an aircraft being tested there & asked an official who stated he'd worked there since the late 80's about the night in question & if it was indeed a Tornado why hadn't his department at Warton heard about it or been involved in the post incident 'clean up'. Apparently his facial expression was a picture but he couldn't be drawn on the matter.

I'm not a 'Conspiracy Theorist' by any means & if anything, am pro-establishment. But I'm not totally convinced by the Tornado & Towed Decoy story. Especially after speaking to an ATCO, a senior USAFE Crew Chief & what I heard that cold winters night over East Anglia.

The truth is out there.... in a filing cabinet.
:ok:

[chevvron]

I believe the Cruise/Kidman G4 had a registration something like N328KC not 604M

[sharksandwich]

For nearly 30 years UFO enthusiasts have been poring over a high-profile incident dubbed Britain's 'Roswell'.
But now a lorry driver has come forward to claim it was he who was responsible for the infamous UFO sighting near Woodbridge, Suffolk, in December 1980.
Peter Turtill, 66, said witnesses who reported to have seen strange lights were actually watching a truck filled with burning fertiliser.
Mr Turtill said he had been amazed at the way news of the explosive drama had snowballed over the years - triggering dozens of books, documentaries, outlandish stories and bizarre theories.
US Air Force personnel claimed a UFO had landed in Rendlesham Forest, leaving traces including inexplicable markings on the ground and acute radiation.
Lurid descriptions given by officers at the base have fuelled decades of fevered speculation and claims, with the area around the site said to be a portal or gateway for aliens visiting earth.

But Mr Turtill, of Ipswich, said: 'It really is a load of nonsense.
'There was no real fuss at the time and it was only later people started saying it was aliens and this story spiralled


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1211350/Britains-famous-UFO-burning-lorry-packed-stolen-fertiliser-says-driver.html#ixzz0QEn5cCPA (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1211350/Britains-famous-UFO-burning-lorry-packed-stolen-fertiliser-says-driver.html#ixzz0QEn5cCPA)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I always doubted the Rendlesham stuff but one must ask, why has the lorry man left it so long?

[sharksandwich]

DESCRIPTION:
The name "Aurora" first appeared in a 1985 budget document with a line by that name slated to receive $80 million in FY 1986 and $2.2 billion in FY 1987. Since the item appeared just after the TR-1 (http://aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/u2/), many conjectured this project was a high-speed reconnaissance aircraft to replace the SR-71 (http://aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/sr71/). As early as 1979, the Air Force had begun studying a "...Mach 4, 200,000-ft.-altitude aircraft that could be a follow-on to the Lockheed SR-71 strategic reconnaissance vehicle in the 1990s."
The Air Force, NASA, and several aerospace contractors undertook design studies of Mach 5 aircraft throughout the early and mid-1980s that may have supplied the basic information needed to develop such a concept. The principal difficulties these studies had to address were the development of engines able to power an aircraft at speeds exceeding Mach 5 and developing structures capable of surviving the intense aerodynamic heating experienced at such high speeds (see the Aerospaceweb.org Hypersonic Waverider (http://aerospaceweb.org/design/waverider/) site to learn more about high-speed flight).
If it does exist, many conjecture the Aurora may look something like the Mach 3 XB-70 Valkyrie (http://aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/research/xb70/) or NASA's cancelled X-30 National Aerospace Plane (NASP). Both vehicles were wedge-shaped with delta wings of small area. Both combated heating issues by circulating onboard fuel along surfaces experiencing the greatest heat fluxes. While the XB-70 was propelled by conventional jet engines, the X-30 was to have been powered by advanced ramjet or scramjet engines using cryogenic fuels to operate at speeds exceeding Mach 5.
Based on this technological progression and close scrutiny of the US budget, many observers are convinced the US Air Force was able to develop, build, and test a large high-speed aircraft by the early 1990s. Shortly thereafter, reports of loud sonic booms and sightings of strange contrails over Great Britain and southern California began to surface. Some believe these reports provide further evidence of a very high-speed aircraft using some exotic form of propulsion. It is interesting to note, however, that these reports rapidly trailed off after 1996 suggesting that whatever vehicle mentioned in these sightings may have been only an experimental prototype no longer in use.
The US government has repeatedly denied the existence of an aircraft called Aurora or any similar follow-on aircraft to replace the SR-71. Since the evidence supporting the Aurora is circumstantial or pure conjecture, there is little reason to contradict the government's position. Data below estimated and completey conjectural
Last modified 13 September 2009


HISTORY: First Flight possibly late-1980s Service Entry

existence unconfirmed

CREW: possibly two: pilot and systems officer

ESTIMATED COST:

unknown

AIRFOIL SECTIONS: Wing Root unknown Wing Tip

unknown

DIMENSIONS: Length 115 ft (35 m) Wingspan 65 ft (20 m) Height 19 ft (6 m) Wing Area 3,200 ft2 (300 m2) Canard Area

not applicable

WEIGHTS: Empty 65,000 lb (29,480 kg) Typical Load unknown Max Takeoff 157,000 lb (71,215 kg) Fuel Capacity internal: 88,000 lb (39,920 kg)
external: not applicable Max Payload

4,000 lb (1,815 kg)

PROPULSION: Powerplant possibly turbofan engines for subsonic flight and
ramjets, scramjets, or pulse detonation engines for supersonic flight Thrust unknown

PERFORMANCE: Max Level Speed at altitude: possibly Mach 5 to Mach 8 (some suggest up to Mach 20)
at sea level: unknown Initial Climb Rate unknown Service Ceiling 131,000 ft (40,000 m) Range 8,000 nm (15,000 km) g-Limits unknown

ARMAMENT: Gun none Stations none Air-to-Air Missile none (although some suggest a long-range AAM like the AIM-54 Phoenix might be carried) Air-to-Surface Missile none Bomb none Other cameras, IR sensors, other recon sensors

KNOWN VARIANTS: Aurora Possible high-speed advanced reconnaissance platform

KNOWN COMBAT RECORD:

existence unconfirmed

KNOWN OPERATORS:

United States (US Air Force)

3-VIEW SCHEMATIC: http://aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/recon/aurora/aurora_schem_01.jpg

<U>[edit (http://www.pprune.org/w/index.php?title=Aurora_(aircraft)&action=edit&section=5)] Steven Douglas sighting

On March 23, 1992, near Amarillo, Texas (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Amarillo,_Texas), Steven Douglas (http://www.pprune.org/w/index.php?title=Steven_Douglas&action=edit&redlink=1) photographed the "doughnuts on a rope" contrail (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Contrail) and linked this sighting to distinctive sounds. He described the engine noise in the May 11, 1992, edition of Aviation Week & Space Technology (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Aviation_Week) (p.62-63) as a:
“(...) strange, loud pulsating roar... unique... a deep pulsating rumble (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Rumble_(noise)) that vibrated the house and made the windows shake... similar to rocket (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Rocket) engine noise, but deeper, with evenly timed pulses.”
In addition to providing the first photographs of the distinctive contrail previously reported by many, the significance of this sighting was enhanced by Douglas' reports of intercepts of radio transmissions (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Radio_transmission):
“Air-to-air communications (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Communication)... were between an AWACS (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/E-3_Sentry) aircraft with the call sign (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Call_sign) "Dragnet 51" from Tinker AFB (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Tinker_AFB), Okla. (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Okla.), and two unknown aircraft using the call signs 'Darkstar November' and 'Darkstar Mike.' Messages consisted of phonetically (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Phonetically) transmitted alphanumerics (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Alphanumeric). It is not known whether this radio traffic had any association with the "pulser" that had just flown over Amarillo. (Darkstar is also a call sign of AWACS aircraft from a different squadron at Tinker AFB)”
A month later, radio enthusiasts (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Enthusiast) in California monitoring Edwards AFB (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Edwards_AFB) Radar (callsign "Joshua Control") heard early morning radio transmissions (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Radio_transmission) between Joshua and a high flying aircraft using the callsign "Gaspipe".
“You're at 67,000 ft, 81 miles out" was heard, followed by "seventy miles out now, 36,000 ft, above glideslope (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Glideslope).”
At the time, NASA (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/NASA) was operating both the SR-71 and the U2-R from Edwards (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Edwards_AFB), but it has been confirmed that neither of these types were flying at the time Gaspipe was heard.[5] (http://www.pprune.org/#cite_note-aemann.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk-4) Curtis Peebles (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Curtis_Peebles) claims in his book Dark Eagles (http://www.pprune.org/w/index.php?title=Dark_Eagles&action=edit&redlink=1) that the intercepted radio transmissions were probably a prank on the part of Edwards security personnel.
[edit (http://www.pprune.org/w/index.php?title=Aurora_(aircraft)&action=edit&section=6)] Other sightings


In the highly disputed testimony of alleged physicist Robert Lazar (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Robert_Lazar), he claims that during his employ at the mysterious S-4 (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/S-4_(Sector_Four)) facility in Nevada (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Nevada), that he briefly witnessed an Aurora flight while aboard a bus near Groom Lake (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Groom_Lake). He claimed that there was a "tremendous roar" which sounded almost as if "the sky was tearing." Though he only saw the physical craft for a moment through the front of the bus, he described it as being "very large" and having "two huge, square exhausts with vanes in them." Upon speaking with his supervisor, Lazar was said to have been informed that the craft was indeed an "Aurora," a "high altitude research plane." He was also told that the craft was powered by "liquid methane (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Methane)."[11] (http://www.pprune.org/#cite_note-10)
In March 2006, the History Channel (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/History_Channel) broadcast a television program called "An Alien History of Planet Earth" which examined UFO (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/UFO) reports in the context of secret military aviation programs. During the program, aviation journalist Nick Cook (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Nick_Cook) presented a satellite image (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Satellite_image) of the continental U.S. (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Continental_U.S.) showing a contrail (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Contrail) allegedly originating in Nevada (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Nevada) and extending over the Atlantic Ocean (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Atlantic_Ocean). The contrail was unusual, as it appeared different from other contrails visible on satellite images (http://www.pprune.org/wiki/Satellite_image). The craft that produced those contrails was not visible on the image. Based on the details of the image, it was speculated that it indicated an aircraft flying at a speed of around 7,000 mph (Mach 10.5, or 11,265 km/h).
In December 2006, a Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_-Tf9ZGDfA) was filmed of a "doughnuts on a rope" contrail after hearing a supersonic boom that seemed to vibrate very viciously.http://en.wikipedia.org.wiki

[sharksandwich]

Project Condign

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"These are senior officials and yet they believe some pretty bizarre things."
An inquiry, Project Condign, was eventually launched in 1996, apparently without the knowledge of then defence secretary Michael Portillo. It was completed in 2000 under Geoff Hoon.
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Britain's X Files: RAF suspected aliens of "tourist" visits to Earth - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/6209684/Britains-X-Files-RAF-suspected-aliens-of-tourist-visits-to-Earth.html)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Sadly, none of those links work (for me)... Maybe somebody, or something, has been at work...........

[chopper2004]

Watch @2:33 of this USAF ISR history video and make up your minds :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbqWdXzV-Bk&t=27s

cheers

[cavuman1]

Here is an interesting article which reaches a surprising conclusion:
Aurora (https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/was-americas-aurora-hypersonic-aircraft-real-we-get-to-the-bottom-of-it/)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x384/aurora_aircraft_d1e37ff7093652baf58b7ba70dd6074bb440083f.jpg

- Ed

[SpringHeeledJack]

I don't doubt for a second that Uncle Sam has all sorts of futuristic weapons up and working after being developed in secrecy at the various bases we all know of, however it has always seemed unusual to me that they are never seemingly used in battle. There are enough witnesses, both knowledgable and non, who would have seen/noticed unusual things, especially flying things.

I appreciate that the Aurora, if it exists, would be travelling at great speed and great height, but there's always someone, somewhere looking up at the sky and can see trails and hear noises, not to mention radar operators, both friend and foe, who would notice something unusual.

[Speedbird223]

It's always fun to postulate about such things and there seems to be some genuinely interesting evidence out there....the fact that Chris Gibson just happened to be on one of the world's top aircraft recognition teams and saw this is a pretty amazing coincidence.

I flew out of Boscombe Down in the early 2000s with the University Air Squadron and had I known about the crash before I left I'd have been keen to ask at least the friendly support staff attached to the squadron what they remember. Not that I'd expect to get to the bottom of it (ha!) but maybe just to get some details/recounts beyond the couple of well known rumours.

[thetimesreader84]

...it has always seemed unusual to me that they are never seemingly used in battle. There are enough witnesses, both knowledgable and non, who would have seen/noticed unusual things, especially flying things.

The three that jump out at me are the F-117 which took part in the invasion of Panama when still technically on the secret list. There's also "the beast of Kandahar" which turned out to be the RQ-170, or the "Stealth Black Hawk" used in the Bin Laden raid, details of which are still very scarce. That's just full sized aircraft. Drones are the latest thing - just saying.

Towed decoys were used over Kosovo despite being kept secret (I think embedded photographers were banned from taking / releasing photos showing the decoy housing on the aircraft they were so secret).

Stuff is being used "in battle". You just have to know where to look!:ok: