Flour Bombing - Organising CAA etc

[RS2]

Looking at trying to organsie a few events next year and the possibility of including spot landing competitions / flour bombing competitions.

Can some one with experience advise me on the legalities in terms of what we need to do if we want to organise a flour bombing competition.

Can it take place at a fly-in where public are paying to get in, does it have to be closed to club members, is it classed as a display in anyway, how do you go about getting aropund the rules governing dropping items from an aircraft etc etc.

Thought it might be fun to have it as part of the activities during a fly-in weekend, but didnt want to end up with the scenario as it being classed as a display just because public were visiting the airfield by road at the same time.

Thanks in advance for any help.

ps Please mail me if you prefer.

[Mike Cross]

You need an exemption from the CAA (it being illegal under the ANO to drop anything without one). I believe the fee for issuing the required bit of paper is a little north of 200 quid, which is why we no longer do it. CAA issue guidelines with the exemption.

Interestingly of course the 500 ft rule still applies, which could cause you a problem in theory with spectators or judges.

No problem with spot landings. My own preference is that if your mains touch down short of the line the attempt is void and the nearest after the line (or on it) is the winner. So long as you actually land you're exempted from the 500 ft rule.

Suggestion - ban dragging it in on the back of the drag curve. It's noisy, annoys the neighbours, and could suddenly dump you on the ground if you get a gust. Insist on normal approaches. Also consider the neighbours and don't do it continually all day.

[BackPacker]

Suggestion - ban dragging it in on the back of the drag curve. It's noisy, annoys the neighbours, and could suddenly dump you on the ground if you get a gust. Insist on normal approaches. Also consider the neighbours and don't do it continually all day.

When we do this sort of thing at our club (we don't call it a competition but "practice" event for legal reasons) we have a safety pilot (a club instructor or very experienced pilot) in the RHS. He or she is not Pilot in Command but will warn of situations like that. He/she also judges altitude keeping on downwind (less than +/- 50 feet = +10 points, less than +/- 100 feet = 0 points, more than +/- 100 feet = -10 points) and judges the quality of the flare/landing.

Something we've experienced in the last few years is that it's not a good idea to make the actual runway threshold (even if a displaced one) the threshold of the spot landing competition area. Better move it up (if possible) something like 50 meters. Otherwise you are going to set a record for number of aircraft that actually landed short of the legal runway in a single day. (We did.)

Scoring: We get three attempts each, one of which has to be a glide-in (power to idle below 500 feet). Scores are tallied up, most points is the winner. Penalties of course for landing short of the box, for not maintaining altitude on downwind, for rough/flat/nosewheel landings and for using power on the glide-in below 500 feet.

[RS2]

Thanks for the replies so far, just the sort of info and advice from past experience I was looking for.

[ifitaintboeing]

The LAA hold such a permission and an exemption from Rule 5 for their LAA Pilot Coaching Days which include flour bombing and spot landings.

Come along to Popham on 5th October and have a go!

More details:

PCS (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/PCS/pcs.html)

Pilot Brief for the activities:

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/pdf/PCS/PCS%20POPHAM%20BRIEF.pdf

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For those organising such events:

The cost to the organiser is £103 per application. Dave Evans at the CAA is who you need to speak with. The details are in CAP403

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP403.PDF

and this AIC

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/current/aic/yellow/EG_Circ_2004_Y_086_en.pdf

PM me for more details.

Regards,

ifitaint....

[Mike Cross]

From the aforementiond CAP 403
In deciding if an application for a Permission under Article 80 should be made, the Flying Display Director should note that the 'open to the public' requirement is the principle requirement rather than the 'advertised' element. If the general public are permitted onto the site for the purposes of witnessing the event, with or without payment, during the Flying Display, an Article 80 Permission will be required.

This is wonderfully wooly and you need to go to Art 155 of the ANO to decide whether or not what you are intending is actually a Flying Display
'Flying display' means any flying activity deliberately performed for the purpose of providing an exhibition or entertainment at an advertised event open to the public;

I'd disagree with the CAP403 interpretation, it's the ANO that has legal force, not the CAP and it defines it pretty well. IMHO a prosecutor would have to prove that it was an advertised event. If he can't the case would fail.

I'm very pleased to see that the cost of the exemption for Flour Bombing has indeed been reduced to 103.00

Details here http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/ORS5~233.pdf

[formationfoto]

Flour bmbining (or indeed any article dropping - such as tedy bears on parachutes - or streamers) requires an article 66 exemption. As Mike Cross suggests this will not exempt you from rule 5 but you could also apply for a Rule 5 exemption (The CAA have to pay for themselves somehow).

I hold an article 66 exemption which allows me and my fellow DA pilots to provide flour bombing etc at any airfield. This doesnt help your situation but proves that the CAA are willing to assist with any special requirements you might have.

By the way a hardboard 'castle' does not appear to count as a 'structure' for the purposes of Rule 5 and remember you can be lower than 500 ft providing you are not CLOSER than 500 ft to person, vessel, etc.

The article 80 requirements (air display) apply to an advertised event even if the advertisement is only word of mouth and the purpose is an aerial demonstration.

One thought - if you do obtain the article 66 exemption then you can also do streamer cutting on the same exemption. Buy 12 Tesco value toilet rolls, stick then in a Cessna 150. Climb to 1500 ft, have particopating aircraft 500 ft behind and 100 ft lower. Throw out a toilet roll (there is a technique to this which involves pushing the centre out a little to make it a cone shape), participating aircraft then tries to cut the toilet roll.

Descends at around 500 ft every 30 seconds. Thrwow the next one out for the next aircraft 1 minute later.

This. and flour bombing should be properly briefed with emergency drills and should really have someone who has done it before in charge. Also for pilots who havent done much unusual attitudes etc. a safety pilot in the aircraft.

It is great fun and forms part of the 'Seething circus' display act I run

[formationfoto]

Oh one slightly interesting point. The art 66 exemotion is free if it is only for dropping of ashes. I can see an obvious thought emerging here but don't go there!

[RS2]

Many thanks for all the replies, may have a rethink on original intentions.

[NigelOnDraft]

Scoring: We get three attempts each, one of which has to be a glide-in (power to idle below 500 feet). Scores are tallied up, most points is the winner. Penalties of course for landing short of the box, for not maintaining altitude on downwind, for rough/flat/nosewheel landings and for using power on the glide-in below 500 feet.Our club specified that the aircraft had to useable afterwards as well :=

NoD

[BackPacker]

Our club specified that the aircraft had to useable afterwards as well.

After my third landing the aircraft spent about three weeks in the shop before it was legal to fly again. They never deducted any points for that - they even offered me the chance to try again in another airplane.

(The bird I struck on short final wasn't so lucky though.)

[mixture]

CAA aside, your insurers might have something to say about it too. :ok: