So Where Are All Fresh Fi Jobs ? [Archive]

donPablo

1st Oct 2008, 21:22

Poland - plenty of FI jobs, :ok: a beautiful EU country with JAA of course, no need to validate, just come and fly... the only "but" is... polish language - no chance without it. But as a Londoner U probably have a lot of them around ... find some and force him/her to theach U aviation terms in polish.

This ain't joke there is a real shortage in Poland of FIs as most of low hours were "sucked" by the regionals but as mentioned polish is a must ;)

greenno

3rd Oct 2008, 11:58

I have the same problem like you.

Try in China but you need convert your lincece and read some about flight school in this country before apply.

:8:8

jawad

3rd Oct 2008, 18:41

i have tried in china..they r not aceepting pakistani pilots .....asnd they also require to be fluent in chinese...guys need more help and advise...where should i go and start looking for FI jobs...thanks 2 all of you ...gettin all replies from u guys...

jawad

jamestkirk

5th Oct 2008, 11:15

about a year ago jerez came to the airfield i worked at (FI) and said they would consider taking FI's with less than 500 instructional. that may have changed but if you like spain.

jawad

5th Oct 2008, 19:57

i am willing to go any where in the world....but i dont know spanish will that count in getting a job.......any guys thanks to every one....with your positive replies.....please let me know if any of you get hold FI job....any where in the world.....i hold Pak CPL/IR/FI

cheers,
Jawad

Rob82

6th Oct 2008, 08:33

Haven't looked into this place myself but one of my mates now works there after just gaining his FI rating.

Leading Edge Flight Training (http://www.flyleadingedge.co.uk/flighttraining/opportunities.php)

Rob

jawad

6th Oct 2008, 11:02

thanks mate.......so guys any one of u have any info on middleeast FI jobs?

greenno

8th Oct 2008, 17:52

Jerez is looking for FI IRI CRI FTE::Jobs Opportunities (http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/page.php?page_name=jobs)

:=and is not neccesary speak chinese to work in China, but it is true that you need convert your licence.

3 writing exam, CPL, FI and IFR plus Level 4 exam.:ugh:

I'm not sure if one or two flight exam.:ugh:

mikehammer

9th Oct 2008, 09:04

Ummm. There aren't any.

Sorry.

WWW

Hilarious, but sadly not true.

Wee Weasley Welshman

9th Oct 2008, 10:41

A recession and its winter and a house price crash and you are telling me there are normal levels of interest in doing a PPL course or keeping current? Are you telling me that instructors are being snapped up by airlines desperate for pilots?

As far as I can see the demand and supply of FI's low and high and its going to get worse.

I agree the market was pretty good at the start of this year.

I speak solely of the UK market here.

WWW

EK4457

9th Oct 2008, 12:30

WWW - goodness me, give it a rest.

Firstly, recession not confirmed. Unless you are Merv King and are about to announce it.

Secondly, a house price crash has zero effect on the vast majority of the population's cash situation. A basic understanding of economics tells you that the only home owners affectd by a housing slump are those forced to sell. That is not many. If your average house drops 15% in value, it makes no difference to your monthly income/outgoings.

Thirdly, winter. Eh? Do we not have a winter every year? Do we see masses of FIs made redundant in November and re-employed in March? No, we don't. The fact is that FTO's keep roughly the same numbers of FI's all year round and just vary the amount of flying each gets if the wx is crap. Simple.

Besides, you show me an FTO which isn't mad busy in Jan/Feb with trial flights bought for christmas presents.

The ratio of jobs to instructors is very good. The amount of FI's I know is in double fugures. None are out of work. I have been offered a job as an FI and I haven't even started my FIC.

Don't get me wrong WWW. I know times is tough. And the credit cruch has yet to peak. Anyone who is going to start training now should think very carefully, particularly about taking out a loan.

However, you seem to have a preconcieved idea that the end is neigh. Which is fine. And you go on about it. And on. And on. Your perogative, if a little tedious. But now you have resorted to making up imaginary factors (recession, winter) or factors which while serious, are not cash sensitive (housing) to put the FI industry down when it is probably the healthiest aviation related industry out there.

Where are all the FTO's going under? Where are all the unemployed FI's? Jawad is having probelms due to his license not the industry.

If you want to tell it how it is then fine. But don't make it out to be worse.

EK

Wee Weasley Welshman

9th Oct 2008, 13:35

EK 4457: Well I was a flying instructor for 7 years and I've seen a few downturns before. I know this year has been good for schools. A lot of airline recritment has seen FI turnover be quite high. A lot of people have made a lot of money out of house price inflation and a booming economy and the baby boomer generation is now retiring. Those 25% pension draw downs often find their way into GA. Good, I'm really pleased.

But.

Recession. Its here. You know it, I know it and within a couple of months the official figures will show it.

Secondly a HPC means the effective end of the £9BILLION a year mortgage equity withdrawal spending in the consumer economy. Regardless of anyone losing anything or selling anything. On top of that negative equity or fear of it hits consumer spending particularly on discretionary leisure services like flying instruction. Always has done, always will.

Thirdly yes Winter is a slowdown time for flying schools and there are plenty of part time instructors who barely work over the winter and full timers who are really part time by November. I was one for a year or two. I can show you a few FTO's who are pretty damn quiet in February every year.

The FTO's going under will be along shortly and the instructors looking for work the same morning. Wish it weren't so but it will be.

Hell a little hiccup like Sept 11th sent PPSC, SFT, Four Forces and European Flyers bust within months.

But as you only did a PPL in 2006 you probably don't appreciate that people like me (and I'm early 30's so not too crusty yet) have been in this business long enough to have seen this all before. Your ignorance of what has gone before leads you to dismiss me as some tedious delusionist. Fair enough. I can understand that.

I can offer no advice regarding FI opportunities in the sub-continent as I know nothing about that.

WWW

MIKECR

9th Oct 2008, 13:57

Jawad,

Theres a couple of ad's in this months GA flying mags for FI's, including restricted FI's...UK based. These are the one's that are advertising......but there's plenty who dont. Your best bet is to make some phonecalls.

hitmanishere

9th Oct 2008, 15:55

Theres a couple of ad's in this months GA flying mags for FI's, including restricted FI's...UK based

Hmmm.... If I'm not mistaken from the posts by JAWAD, he is a Pakistani national with a CPL/IR FI rating from PAKISTAN and with no instructional experience...As far as my knowledge goes, Working in Europe as a pilot or an FI is not possible for this guy because of the licensing and immigrational requirements of the EU...

THE MIDDLE EAST: not possible without some instructional experience..
South America: :confused:

Africa:South Africa is out of the question....But sefofane is looking for flight instructors for its flying school
sefofane, air charters, charter service, aircraft, southern africa, flying safaris, guided air safaris, wilderness safaris, south africa, botswana, namibia, zimbabwe, zambia, beechcraft, baron 55, baron 58, beech 1900, king air 200, cessna, cessna 20 (http://www.sefofane.com/employment.html)

The only places that I know of where he could possibly try and get a job with Zero experience were China and malaysia..But according to JAWAD he cannot work in the above mentioned countries as he had explained in earlier posts...

SO that leaves JAWAD with no option but to try and get a job in Pakistan itself:sad:....

JAWAD:I'm almost in the same position as you are,the only difference I can work in malaysia as an AFI......Try and get some hours from the local flying clubs and then apply for jobs outside pakistan.. I'm sure the paki flying clubs would let you fly their A/c's if you tell them that you will work for FREE:*...

jawad

9th Oct 2008, 16:52

thanks for all ur replies....mr hitman thank u very much...i have applied in safone air...job scope here as a fi is bad no empty slots in flying clubs...i wanna move out from here.......it might take time for fi job....in pak

cheers,
jawad

a797

9th Oct 2008, 19:30

Wow - WWW is in his early 30s??

Holy crap i thought you were in your 60's or something, shocked i am!!

I thought only old men with aching backs and stiff knees rant on about how miserable the world is!

Real eye opener :ok:

Wee Weasley Welshman

9th Oct 2008, 20:55

Old men rant because they know the mistakes young men are about to repeat.

t' internet only shortens that process by half a century and puts it in your spare bedroom. Incredible when you think about it.

WWW

MIKECR

9th Oct 2008, 21:05

Welshman,

Your early 30's!!??.....you need to get out more mate before you need the happy pills(seriously!!)!! Im actually quite shocked. Victor Meldrew eat your heart out. I thought I was old bitter and twisted and had lost all faith in humanity after 12 years of the Constabulary...but you Sir take the biscuit!

G-SPOTs Lost

9th Oct 2008, 21:28

History Repeating Itself

1. Boomtime everybody gets jobs - www = Hero
2. Busttime nobody gets jobs - apparently www doesn't know if he needs a sh1t or a haircut
3. Airlines stop recruiting - everybody gets FI rating
4. Posts on Pprune "so where are all the fresh FI jobs then???"
5. Reality check posts get met with derision and disbelief
6. Goto 2 for 3 years........
7. If 3 years is up goto 1

Exactly same happened in 2001 the only thing missing is the infamous best ever Blackadder quotes thread from the same era.......errr in fact

I want to see how a war is fought so badly.......

Well, you've come to the right place then, there hasn't been a war run this badly since King Otto the Incredibly Stupid ordered 8,000 viking helmets with the horns on the inside.

tupues

9th Oct 2008, 21:51

I am shocked! WWW, you act like a 55-60 year old who we don't really like but respect because of your years of experience and wisdom gained from those years. To hear you are in your early 30s is a complete suprise. So when you talk about the economy in 1990 etc you were in your mid teens?!

Watch out everyone- 3000 posts on an internet forum can change you for life!

VFE

9th Oct 2008, 22:12

Oh grow up children. Like or loathe WWW, he's only giving you the benefit of his knowledge and I'll bet a pound to a pinch of **** that his knowledge is worth more than any aspiring wannabes here so stop using him as an excuse to ignore the bleedin' obvious because you are only fooling yourselves! Recession is all but upon us (in fact, take a look at the stock market data from the past week and tell me we're not wiping our feet at the entrance of a worldwide recession!) but as far as this moment in time goes, there has been no drop in interest in learning to fly at my flying school and trial lessons are still shifting via the usual crop of intermediary shop window/google outfits.

So there's some comforting news at least.

WWW is basing his predictions on the previous recession but there's nothing to say that this credit crunch come recession will mirror previous recessions is there? Think about it. Times change and the world works slightly different now than it did 10, 20 or 30 years ago so we may not see a set trend repeat itself this time. Disposable cash will still be around for those who didn't base their business success on credit in the last 10 years. We are in unique times. Kenneth Clarke said earlier this week that it's a credit hangover and that it will last until at least 2010. If this is the case then we've just gotta sip the orange juice and ride it out, simple as that.

But back to the main issue behind this thread - -that of FI jobs - - my insincts tell me they must be drying up although on a daily basis I see nothing which leads me to verify this assumption. Indeed, I know of work available at nearby schools to me right now but how long that will last is anyones guess...

VFE.

MIKECR

9th Oct 2008, 22:23

VFE,

What exactly are we ignoring? What am I fooling myself with?? Do tell!:confused:

Am I some young niave 20 year old with nappies stuck up my arse ??

clunk1001

9th Oct 2008, 22:26

Actually I think WWW mis-typed that, when he says “early 30s” he must have meant “early 1930s” right?

Forget house prices, winter slowdowns, global economic crisis and the fact that every airline (or school - to be on topic) you might have got a job from is going to go bust the day after you finish your training, what you really want to worry about is the airline industry turning you into Victor bl:mad:dy Meldrew after just a few years! ;)

portsharbourflyer

10th Oct 2008, 00:17

My only comment would be 9/11 didn't send SFT bust, the school was in financial trouble well before 9/11. Remember there were plenty of students at SFT training and plenty of students signing up for courses up to the time it went bust. Although SFT went under soon after 9/11, it was too soon after 9/11 for the affect of 9/11 to have affected trade. Do seem to remember it didn't take the management team/ a certain director from SFT to resume operating a training school just over road form the SFT not so along after (what is now EPTA).

Four Forces, "financial management" or "intentional mismanagement" as the case was by the Iverson brothers may have more to do with downfall of Four Forces than 9/11.

flaps 15 3 green

10th Oct 2008, 00:39

Jawad, If you fly, or even worse instruct, like you write i wouldn't want you teaching me.. no offence.

a797

10th Oct 2008, 02:26

He did live with her but she got so irritated with his constant moaning and ranting about the economy that she had no choice but to kick him out.

I think he now lives and sleeps in a pa28 cockpit with only his laptop and pprune to keep him company!!

Anonymus6

10th Oct 2008, 09:05

Could anyone, or on of the agents (administrator) close this thread. It main subject was about how jawad to get a FI job, not to attack WWW about his age or wisdom.

Jawad at the curren market the only place that take fresh FI is china, pakistan don't have good relationship with china so it will not work. Same with India. Why not try flight schools in Africa (nigeria) and caribbean. I'm certain I saw an add on www.climbto350.com (http://www.climbto350.com) regarding a FI job in Nigeria for few weeks ago. Try this website www.pilotcareercenter.com (http://www.pilotcareercenter.com) and call every flight school where you might be able to validate your pakistani FI license to tha state of issue.

Ignore this negative comments from certain individuals in this website. I have been in similar situation,, just hang in there and the job will come.

good luck, if I find something I will let you know.

bye:ok:

Wee Weasley Welshman

10th Oct 2008, 09:49

Victor Meldrew - Hmmm, at times yes.

I got a PPL at 17, was instructing by the age of 20, was a commercial instructor to Integrated and Cadets in Jerez, and these days a skipper in the 2nd largest UK airline. I'm a couple of years shy of mid 30's, married, live on a farm, shoot, ride and spend a bit of time trading on the markets.

Miserable and bitter I am totally not.

Lucky I am.

Ignore me you shall.

WWW

Grass strip basher

10th Oct 2008, 10:08

"Firstly, recession not confirmed. Unless you are Merv King and are about to announce it.

Secondly, a house price crash has zero effect on the vast majority of the population's cash situation. A basic understanding of economics tells you that the only home owners affectd by a housing slump are those forced to sell. That is not many. If your average house drops 15% in value, it makes no difference to your monthly income/outgoings."

Must be nice on your planet EK4457... back here on planet earth only those inhabiting padded cells think the UK isn't in recession. Sometimes I wonder if some of you folks ever venture out into the real world.... life may well deal you a pretty unpleasant surprise in the next 6-12 months

a797

10th Oct 2008, 10:41

nothing to see here!

Wee Weasley Welshman

10th Oct 2008, 11:19

Checked it out. Wasn't funny, made no sense. Quite liked the quotation of The Proclaimers but other than that a waste of life.

Do you have anything else to share? I do hope not.

WWW

BlueRobin

10th Oct 2008, 13:30

Weasley can look after himself I think. Mod-bashing gets you nowhere :ok:

jawad

10th Oct 2008, 13:38

Guys........can any of u have any info on fresh fi jobs.......

jawad

Troy McClure

10th Oct 2008, 15:41

WWW - Christ, I think I'm you, just a year behind. I Dooon't belieeve it....

:)

mikehammer

10th Oct 2008, 15:50

This is all getting a bit personal, let's just stick to the facts, many of which I suspect WWW interprets well to form an opinion which will be borne out in short time. G Spot puts his own experienced slant on this.

However, I think Portsharbourflyer has a point about SFT. Also WWW, the fact is that PPSC went under before Sept 11th, and a few of their students ended up at SFT. Lucky they were not.

Additionally, you claimed there were no jobs, which is not the case. However it is clear in this thread that there are far fewer than in the recent past.

Lastly I don't like the video either, I don't get it, so it's not funny to me. There again I am older than WWW by some margin, so perhaps that's the problem there.

a797

10th Oct 2008, 15:54

Video taken down, just a little bit of fun amidst all the gloom :)

Nothing personal at all towards www, just some of us are surprised hes so young, he's wise beyond his years!

No offence intended.

a797.

Wee Weasley Welshman

10th Oct 2008, 16:22

I'm clad in rhino skin me so no offence taken friend.

FI employment at the moment ISN'T bad I happily concede. There was even almost a shortage at the start of the summer which was nice to see.

PPL work accounts for 90% of all FI wages though and historically PPL work dries up in a recession. There is anecdotal evidence that voluntary and non-voluntary redundancy payouts leads to a few more PPL aspirants and people who use a job loss as the spur they needed to persue the dream of a flying career. Its pretty thin gruel though.

I know that PPSC wasn't a Sept11th thing per se but I was just making the point that even that hiccup was enough to send FTO's under and that is does happen both recently and on a significant scale.

Right, its Friday night so I'd better go and get my disco clothes on ;)

WWW

StudentInDebt

10th Oct 2008, 18:11

I've met WWW and had far too many beers with him. From my hazy recollections I can confirm that he is definitely in his early 30's.

I was a full-time PPL instructor for slightly longer than him and I can tell you from bitter experience that it only takes the slightest interruption of perceived cash-flow to stop people coming to the flying school. People I know on the outside of aviation with the sort of cash to burn in the circuit every weekend are currently very nervous, when I last saw this type of behaviour it was just after the tech-stock boom (most of my students were city traders) - at least one school on the airfield went bust within a year. Then there was September 11th, aviation recruitment stopped overnight and didn't really pick up for about 18 months, we didn't take any instructors on for that period as no-one could move on.

My airline is telling me that the situation we now face is far worse than post Sep 11th and 1991, for once I believe them :(

jawad

13th Oct 2008, 11:59

so guys....any updates.....job opennings any where in the world......for fresh FI's

jawad

Anonymus6

14th Oct 2008, 13:04

jawad,

there are no jobs!! stop asking people here.

G SXTY

14th Oct 2008, 14:03

Jawad, if you are 'LHR' based, do you have a JAA CPL and FI rating? If so, how many UK flying clubs and schools have you visited? In this game you make progress by going out, hanging around airfields, meeting people and making contacts. In the UK at least, airlines have virtually stopped recruiting FOs, which means fewer FIs are moving on to airline jobs, which means fewer openings for FIs. I wish you luck but have no doubt that your search will get a lot tougher in the coming months.

Reading these pages, I am quite depressed by the personal nature and general unpleasantness of some postings directed at WWW. Unlike many 'contributors' to this thread I was training at the time of 9/11 and had a grandstand view as the industry tanked. WWW attracted similar abuse for saying similar things then. He was correct in 2001 and I believe (sadly) that he is right again - the only question mark is over the size of the downturn.

This thread neatly sums up why so few current airline pilots can be bothered to post on the wannabe forums. Any attempt to inject a dose of realism - based on our own experience - is generally met with accusations of 'negativity', 'pessimism' and best of all; 'you forget what it's like to be a wannabe'. Some of you might want to stop and consider that maybe - just maybe - some of us (and particularly WWW) have see all this before, have watched fellow wannabes bleed themselves dry through lack of jobs, cash and currency, and are offering their advice in the vain hope of preventing others from making the same mistakes.

Chucking juvenile slings and arrows at the messenger will only convince more of us that posting on here is a waste of time.

Wee Weasley Welshman

14th Oct 2008, 14:18

I get plenty of privately sent thank you's. More recently they've been for people thanking me for warning them from making a horrid mistake but generally they have been from people thanking me for encouraging them and pointing the way to their new career.

When times are good I bang the drum loud and hard for becoming a pilot and joining this fantastic profession. I spent 2003 - 2007 pointing people towards the CTC website with a big thumbs up. I wrote about 2005 being a golden age for Wannabes as jobs fell like apples to the orchard floor...

Then I'm a miserable doom monger when the message changes.

It goes with the sheriffs badge.

WWW :)

expedite08

14th Oct 2008, 15:53

WWW does seem to have a knack of getting it right. The doom and gloom is happening whether we like it or not! People banging out 80k plus debt and flight schools are of course going to play it down! Now is not the time to be throwing money away! Keep current!! what ever you all do, but do not throw cash away for nothing! Be patient and wait six months or a year and see where we are then. Plus look out for WWW's posts as they contain an awful lot of sense and good advice! :ok:

jawad

14th Oct 2008, 20:30

mr Anonymus6 this is not ur threat or your forum...u have no right being rude.....if u have any problems go get ur self chked....and this pprune forum is for asking questions and looking for something intresting

ur D,
jawad

Jazzy78910

14th Oct 2008, 23:10

I'm not sure why, but everyone seems to keep overlooking Australia as a potential place to get a first Instructor job. Do a bit of research and you'll find there is plenty of Instructor work across the country.

But I guess you poms have to convert your CPL.?

Mach086

15th Oct 2008, 09:34

sure is difficult

hitmanishere

15th Oct 2008, 10:04

Jawad, if you are 'LHR' based, do you have a JAA CPL and FI rating? If so, how many UK flying clubs and schools have you visited?

G-SXTY::: LHR is Lahore(pakistan) :}in JAWAD's Case...... Not London Heathrow.....

In this game you make progress by going out, hanging around airfields, meeting people and making contacts

The way he writes his posts makes me assume that he is not that type of a guy...:hmm:

G SXTY

15th Oct 2008, 13:40

Ahh, you mean LHE then? ;)

alles clar. . .

jawad

15th Oct 2008, 15:16

so hitman u can judge ppl..if they write Lhr for lahore.....:)
well if u go for local lang in pak we call lhr -lahore in aviation we call Lhe....so can we come back to the topic.....instead of chkin.....country codes :) and judgin ppl..:)

Vortex Thing

16th Oct 2008, 02:50

Jawad you are not helping yourself. This is an English speaking forum and though it may seem trite for people to correct grammar and spelling on some occasions what you write is so incomprehensible that others for the sake of clarity are trying to help you by posting corrections.

LHR to just about any pilot in the world means London Heathrow, you do not live in pak you live in Pakistan. By all means use abbreviations that most pilots will understand i.e Vfe, Vne, etc but if you insist on speaking in 13 year old standard txt speak using words which are ambiguous then expect the sort of response you are getting now.

Back to the thread.......Unless you are not mentioning it in this thread you do not have the right to live and work in the EU. Supply and demand dictates that right now the chances of you finding FI work in the EU are somewhere between little and none.

If you want a job that badly, pack your bags, put in lots of underwear, a credit card, some white shirts, some black trousers, shades, your licence and log books, your sense of adventure, your sense of humour, a touch of humility and a racing spoon. Make a plan and then get your a*se in the grass and get some trigger time in.

If you have to sleep under a few aircraft wings in the bush, sweep a few floors in the desert and work the ramp/ops/dispatch, etc you will meet someone who knows someone else who knows someone else and make it happen. Or you can sit in front of your PC and take flak from those of us who post in these forums to try and help guys like you.....It's your call.

Mister Geezer

19th Oct 2008, 18:28

Folks... You have not being paying close enough attention have you? I am here sipping my cup of tea and having a good laugh at the heated discussion that has taken place! The one thing that you omitted to spot is that Jawad said he has a Pak CPL/IR/FI.

Rather than advise him on jobs, perhaps it will be prudent for us to establish if he has converted his Pakistani licence yet? Otherwise he can try as hard as he can but there won't be any job out there for this poor chap out side Pakistan unless he has sorted out a conversion or a validation!

There are FI jobs out there... always has been and always will be. At the moment the only snag is that you have to look a bit harder for them at the moment! ;) I still instruct in amongst my airline flying and I am having to turn students away since the demand is still very much there! :ok: Credit crunch or no credit crunch there will still be a pool of people with enough disposable income who want to learn to fly. The pool might be a lot smaller in some areas than others and I suspect that the situation that I am in at the moment is a bit unique. I instruct out of Barton and it not surprising that most of my PPL students stay in Cheshire which is a very affluent part of the country anyway! Therefore the situation I am in will not be found in many other places I suspect!

As for WWW turning into a Victor Meldrew? Nah... it is just the normal aging process for those of us that have spent too long in this industry! You should see me sometimes in the flight deck!!! :E