Complex Single Logbook sign-off ?

[cpl4hire]

OK, I have made a search on this site for the answer and I am currently downloading LASORS but in the meantime could anyone explain the following:-
I flew a Complex Single for my CPL training back in 2002 and when I asked my Instructor if I would get a Rating for Complex Singles was told "No".
I found this strange at the time since you generally need to obtain a qualification for virtually everything you do in Aviation.
I have seen some posts saying its now "differences training" and you should have a logbook signoff by an Instructor and others talking about Grandfather Rights (and not needing a Logbook signoff).
So which applies in my case ?

[julian_storey]

No such thing as a 'complex single rating'.

The SEP (land) class rating on your licence allows you to fly (most) single engine piston (land) planes which weigh less than 5,700kg.

HOWEVER you need to receive differences training in respect of any 'complexities' (c/s prop, retractable gear, turbo / supercharging, pressurisation or a tail wheel) which an aircraft may have.

Once you have demonstrated proficiency with any given 'complexity' an instructor will sign your log book for it.

I believe (and someone will probably correct me here) that you need to have exercised your privileges on an aircraft with any given complexity within two years.

[cpl4hire]

Well, I passed my CPL flight test on a complex single so having demonstrated my proficiency with the given 'complexities' why did I not get a Logbook signoff ? Was it not required in 2002 ?

CPL4hire

[julian_storey]

You probably did your skills test in some thing like an Arrow which has a c/s prop and retractable gear.

If you've not flown something which has these two complexities since then, I'd guess that you would require further differences training. I'm sure that someone cleverer than me can confirm ;)

[hugh flung_dung]

As always, LASORS (although possibly not authoritative) has the answer:

"Differences Training requires both theoretical knowledge instruction and training on an aeroplane or appropriate training device.
"Familiarisation Training merely requires the acquisition of additional knowledge, relevant to the new type or variant. This may be achieved with the assistance of an instructor, another pilot experienced on type, or by selfstudy.
"Familiarisation Training is only sufficient where Differences Training is not required.
"It should be noted that when changing to different types, or variants of types, that fall within the single-pilot single engine piston (SEP) class rating, the Differences Training is specifically required to encompass particular ‘complex’ features with which the new type or variant may be equipped.
These features are:-
• Variable Pitch (VP) Propellers
• Retractable Undercarriage
• Turbo/Super-charged Engines
• Cabin Pressurisation
• Tail-Wheel"

"Differences Training in aeroplanes within the SEP class rating is valid indefinitely. If a type, or variant of a type, within the SEP class rating, has not been flown for some time, pilots must use their judgement to decide if refresher training is warranted. However, it is recommended that such re-training be undertaken when the lay-off is more than two years."

"Satisfactory completion of Differences Training is to be recorded in the pilot’s logbook, and countersigned by the instructor. This certification must include details of the features covered and the type or class within which the training was carried out."

Common sense dictates that a log book with evidence of training and a successful CPL skills test in an aircraft with features requiring differences training is a sign-off for those differences.

HFD

[Whopity]

The SEP (land) class rating on your licence allows you to fly (most) single engine piston (land) planes which weigh less than 5,700kg.Wrong! There is no 5700kgs restriction on a SEP Class rating!

[julian_storey]

Wrong! There is no 5700kgs restriction on a SEP Class rating!

Seriously? I learn something new on PPRUNE everyday!!! :D

[Whopity]

Well it only changed with the loss of Group A in Jan 2000!

If you flew any of the differences in Single before the JAR-FCL requirement for differences came in, Jan 2000, then you are deemed to have the difference on the basis of grandfather rights i.e. you were entitled, so you still are. Log book evidence of the flight is all that's required. Anything post Jan 2000 should have a FI signature in the log book, ideally using one of the stickers designed for the purpose. It can be in the daily pages against the flight, or in a qualifications section.

As there are no formal instructions, a P1S sign off could be deemed to cover the requirement!

[julian_storey]

So does the 5,700kg still stand for the MEP (land) class rating?

[Whopity]

No, when the JAA ratings replaced the national ones 5,700 Kg disappeared completely for licensing purposes. You could fly a Lancaster on an MEP rating as it is not type rated.

[julian_storey]

So on my JAA licence I could legally fly a Lancaster, but NOT a piston Malibu?

Crazy stuff! :\