Rans S6 and similar

[rauxaman]

Hi Guys-

I posted last week about becoming involved in more "grass roots" flying and the S6 was suggested as an aircraft that suited my budget (12k) and needs (operate on an permit from a field/strip).

Had a look on the various sites and it looks interesting (the tail dragging version looks more natural) and was wondering if anyone has or has had direct experience of the S6, I intend to operate as a Group A aircraft.

Also does anyone publish a book of reviews similar to those seen monthly in various magazines as I have not definitely decided yet?

Ta R

[Rod1]

There was a group “A” S6 on my local strip until recently. It appeared to be well suited to UK strip conditions and the owners liked the aircraft a lot. If you want reviews of aircraft then Flyer will sell you a reprint for very little money.

Are you a member of the LAA? If not join, the Light Aircraft mag (free to members) is very good and is full of the sort of aircraft you are interested in.

Rod1

[sleemanj]

Had a look on the various sites and it looks interesting (the tail dragging version looks more natural) and was wondering if anyone has or has had direct experience of the S6

Popular aircraft world-wide as I'm sure you have discovered.

Our club (of 150 members or so) in NZ operates two S6, both 582 with pre-sewn skins off grass (and sometimes less improved farm strips). They have proven to be strong and reliable training aircraft.

Both aircraft are now tricycle, we previously had one as a tail dragger.

Short story is that after a number of mishaps and we thought new training regimes, new gear configuration, larger wheels, better brakes etc had "sorted out the problem", a real doozy of a on-it's-back sealed the deal and the insurance pay-out had us rebuild as a trike. Not saying that a tail dragger S6 is a bad thing necessarily, it wasn't a death trap, just that our specific tail dragger S6 did not prove to be a viable platform for continued training of low time pilots. The pilot was uninjured, thanks to the strength of the design.

Main skins have lived to about 1500 hours, the aircraft are stored in a nice dark hangar even between flights when sensible, don't even think about storing with any UV exposure or they will perish far too quickly.

We had a main gear leg fail at about 1200 hours, in a manner in which it was not obvious until the aircraft was airborne, and the gear leg was hanging from the brake cable. The aircraft was not otherwise damaged in it's bicycle landing however. We had a destructive analysis performed on the surviving leg and it basically came down to metal fatigue. Lesson: it's pretty cheap insurance to replace the main gear legs every few hundred hours.

I won't discuss engine matters really because that's the same whatever aircraft. As mentioned we use the Rotax 582 but are considering moving to 912 eventually, but purely from a TBO stand point (rebuilding an engine every 300 odd hours is a bit of a drag).

In short, no particular show stopping vices, strong construction, stands up to the rigors of training pretty well.

[Them thar hills]

RX
The S6 is happy on a short strip.
My preference would be tailwheel, but the local S6 is tricycle. It lives on a < 300 yards strip, no problem at all.
The toe brakes are cable operated, but I believe later models have hydraulic anchors which are much better.
Cruise is 100 mph + on a Rotax 912 (80 horse). The S6-116 has decent rate of roll and is OK in crosswinds. A bit more flap would be useful, they're 3 position, but fairly small in area.
Cabin ventilation is not optional ! Winter flying can be a bit chilly for some parts.
tth

[jonkil]

May have been myself that reccommended the S6.
I have flown quite a few of them, from the 503 ! to the 912 versions.
503 is underpowered, still a good little aircraft, I flew it home from the UK to Ireland... 503 obviously a microlight with all up weight of 390KGS... still love to fly it though... available from around 5k upwards
582 either micro or A class, good all-rounder.... climbs 1000fpm 1 up or 600fpm two up.... excellent aircraft with up'ed to 450KG all up in micro form, available from around 8.5k for a type with a few hours done, expect 12k for a good one.
Rans S6 with the 912 is really superb, the later ones have real good cockpit area that is draught free and a cabin heater to boot. Immensely agile with 1000fpm 2 up, no issue. 100mph cruise at a push, but will cruise happily at 85mph all day, comfortable with light control forces... all S6 need handy feet work, even the tricycles... micro is 450KGS all up, not sure about the A class. 912 versions usually 15K upwards, good ones are 18k plus and some examples make in excess of 20K.
All the S6 are super strong lattice frames, all built using aviation grade alloy and steel and all fixings are AN grade. Excellent strong aircraft that has stood the test of time... yes the legs are known to break, usually due to fatigue and heavier than usual landings... someone stated that it is a good policy to change those every few hundred hours... that is good advice, parts are relatively in-expensive. As stated earlier they need to be hangared and definitely protected from prolonged UV sunlight, the dacron skins will fade and deteriorate quickly if stored outdoors.
As it goes, the Rans S6 is a good all rounder and you could do worse than talk to John Whiting, the original importer of the Rans... he is a wealth of knowledge and a very approachable chap... drop me a PM and I will forward you his details. Good luck with whatever you decide, I don't think there is too many dis-satisfied Rans owners out there.

All the best,
Jon

(ps) I don't fly S6 all the time, I am however a fan as you can guess !

[rauxaman]

Thanks for the replies... this is the beauty of pprune... one asks a question about a particular light aircraft and then gets replies from Yorkshire to New Zealand!

I gather the S6 is well liked and quite strong except obviously from fatigue caused most probably by use as a trainer. Also has a very capable short field capability but wear some thick socks in winter.

Whether I invest in a nose wheeled or taildragger will probably depend on what comes along, from what I am reading as long as I buy carefully then my investment should be reasonably secure (more than a British Building Society) as long as I don't break it!

Does anybody out there NOT like the S6?

It's a pity Pilot/Flyer don't publish reviews as compendium volumes... they used to do the "ILAFFT" in hardback, I have a 1992 on my bookshelf... I would certainly put one on my Christmas list.

Thanks for the feedback once again :ok:

RX

[rauxaman]

We stepped on each other transmitting Jon :\

Thanks for the pricing advice... the 912 is probably out of my range but a good 582 should be achievable.

Thanks, RX

[ChampChump]

Whiskey Kilo Wanderer is your man. He's got more hours than most in them.
I've given him a nudge....:ok:

[Rod1]

Not sure if this link will work for non LAA members but give it a go;

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/204%20RANS%20S6-ES.pdf

Rod1

[Jucky]

RX

I have to say that I didn't like the S6 when I flew it. I flew a tricycle 912 powered machine. I found it had poor control harmony and I recall it needed an excessive amount of rudder to keep it in balance making it very tiring and uncomfortable to fly. It is however the only S6 I have flown so it may have been that particular airframe that flew like that.

Regards,

Jucky

[Whiskey Kilo Wanderer]

Hi Rauxaman,

I’d concur with the above comments, based on fifteen years and over two thousand flying hours of ownership. If you can find a 912 version, you would probably find it better in the long run (the 582 is thirstier and has shorter TBO’s).

With regard to Jucky’s comments, like most aircraft of this type, the S6 displays significant adverse yaw. If you are carrying significant rudder pressure all the time, check the rigging and if necessary install a fixed trim on the rudder. Any tendency to fly ‘one wing low’ can be corrected by biasing the flaps. There is an adjustable rear strut option as well. Obviously being a light side by side seating machine, disposition of fuel, people and baggage will influence the lateral trim. Quite a few S6 have aerodynamic pitch trim, in place of the original bungy cord system. This is one of the best modifications for improving the feel of the controls.

As with all things in aviation, there are compromises. The S6 does most things reasonably well. The design is good for farm strip operation and will tour as long as you are not in too much of a hurry. Even Champ Chump will fly it, but only if her beloved Champ is not available…

Safe Flying,
Richard W.

[batninth]

Might be worth mentioning that you can also get Jabiru 80hp powered examples as an alternative to the 912. They're supposed to be lighter in wieght so carry more, esp if on a 450kg microlight permit.

Personally took one for a test flight & it was very nice but opted for the 582 version for budgetary reasons. Vne on UK S6s is 110mph, and with the Jabiru power it was possible to do it straight & level with ease.

[mikehallam]

The -116 is Class 'A', LAA allow 120 mph vne in the UK. MAUW499kg. Tail wheel looks right, not hard to use, take-off or land.
On the other hand the 503 microlight version on a hot July day took off & climbed very sprightly from our grass strip with two bulky blokes and over half tanks. The owner swears by it. The 503 is a reliable well loved little donk, no water works or oil system to let you down either.

[rauxaman]

I am rapidly becoming an S6 expert without having flown one!!!:O

503... power will be at a premium but is reliable

582... better all-rounder

912... longer TBO, better fuel economy

Jabiru... lighter engine therefore higher load/performance ability

All variants... adverse yaw (I am a seasoned glider pilot so am aware of what this means) will exist but this can be addressed, also handling can be improved by pitch trim modification.

Ok for touring as long as I am not in a hurry... I am not, I've done all of my dashing around in heavy metal American aeroplanes, some trips to the south coast and aviation museums such as Duxford will suit me fine.

Fabric must be protected/preserved, undercarriage seems to be a weakness and don't chop lumps out of the instrument panel for the latest GPS (I won't... I prefer to fly without continually watching a television screen).

I have really enjoyed the positive feedback of this thread and I feel encouraged to get involved in this avenue of aviation.

Thanks again,

RX

[rans6andrew]

the 503 Rans S6 is not a dazzling performer when two up but it is not as bad as some would have you think. My example is upgraded to 430Kg and at that weight it is OK. 430Kg equates to the aircraft, me (86Kg), my partner (won't tell you her weight for life expectancy reasons), full fuel, a few tools, 4lts 2 stoke oil, petrol can and funnel, life jackets plus minimal luggage.

A few weeks ago we flew to the Blois Microlight Fair and the 503 proved to be well up to the task, including dragging us out of a short grass strip on a hot day. We averaged about 70mph and 15ltr per hour for the whole trip.

For everyday jollying about it is cheap and cheerful, easy to maintain and easy to fly. I have just passed the 300 hours PIC in the aircraft and would recommend it to anyone on a budget.

[rauxaman]

Sorry to bother you guys again...

Is there anywhere I can actually fly an S6 with an instructor?

Also... what are the main differences in handling a 2 stroke engine as opposed to 4 stroke?

Cheers RX

[The Flying Pram]

The main thing to be aware of regarding 2 strokes is that they rely on very limited lubrication compared to a 4 stroke. On the 503 it would almost certainly be 50:1 fuel/oil premix, the 582's normally have oil injection with a separate tank. In practice the one thing you don't want to be doing is shutting the throttle completely for any length of time. This means no long descents without either maintaining some power, or regularly bringing it back to cruise setting for short periods. The oil injection system is not quite so critical as it is delivered as a function of both engine speed and throttle opening, so will still have some being supplied with a closed throttle. Don't go thrashing them from cold either! I have manged nearly 1200 hrs without problems in my 447 powered flexwing - so they aren't as bad as many people make out....

[Them thar hills]

RX
You'd do well to try John Teesdale at Airsports Training at Rufforth.
01904 738877
John is very helpful...
tth

[rauxaman]

Used to go gliding at Rufforth back in the late 70's... it'll be nice to go back :)

[mikehallam]

How did you get on after that ?

[flipperthebush]

Would be very interested in how the OP got on, also are there any undercarriage upgrades available?
I have read a few articles about failures and the recommendation was replace main legs every 300 hours!
Any advice?

Roddie

[Genghis the Engineer]

AAIB have issues with the type.

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-investigation-to-rans-s6-esd-modified-coyote-ii-g-myes

G

[Maoraigh1]

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20190626X22553&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=FA
June 2019 US S6 fatal which looks similar to the AAIB ones.

[mikehallam]

With such experienced pilots and no indication, other than flap assymetry of structural failure, one worries.
l find the 116 wing model has benign characteristics.

[Maoraigh1]

A "Biennial" with an instructor checking another instructor, when neither of them is familiar with the aircraft, has lots of possibilities for problems.

[rans6andrew]

I did my conversion to NPPL microlight and then my first 400 hours in a Rans S6ESD. Of all of the microlight aircraft I have flown I found it to be the least likely to lead one into trouble. My example stalled in a straight line, with enough pre stall warning buffet to let you know, and recovered easily. When the flaps were set for landing and the throttle closed then the aircraft settled into a very stable glide. Usually I would set as given towards the end of the downwind leg and pretty much steer to the threshold with the rudder pedals and then land without touching the throttle. If necessary it could be side slipped big time down to 10 feet and still straightened up for a fully stalled landing. It was a delight. As MikeHallam says, a pretty benign aircraft.

I heard that the early main gear legs (hollow tubes) were a little likely to "take a set" if subjected to a "firm" arrival but these were superceded by solid tapered spring steel legs which would bend and then spring right back. I don't know if it was a compulsory change.
Apart from that I think that there was some doubts about the life expectancy of the teleflex cables which control the flap position. These cables are a bowden cable which is effectively un-maintainable as the ends are permanently attached and won't fit through the outer sleeve. The wear and tear of the inner cable cannot be inspected . The best you can do is attempt to force oil into the outer cable from one end and hope for the best. As the two flaps are pulled by independent cables one failure will give serious flap asymmetry............
Lastly, the airframe is totally covered with fabric which is degraded by UV exposure. There is a test for the strength of the fabric but I don't think it is rigorously applied. I saw one or two samples of fabric removed from Rans aircraft that could be torn like tissue paper. I knew it was time to replace mine when I put a finger through the skin on the top of the fuselage one day. To be fair, the top of the fuselage was the worst faded part of the aircraft skins and the weakest when tested. A timely warning.

Otherwise, I would have thought the aircraft had fewer issues than most.

Rans6...............

[Jan Olieslagers]

Gladly supported. I took most of my training on the type and never had an issue. I did get warnings about stalling on the turn to final, but that is a danger to any type. And yes, the fabric covering doesn't last forever but that too is a well-known characteristic. No exceptional degree of care is required on these humble but dependable machines. Small wonder they are around in such ample numbers.