View Full Version : FAA Written Exams>>Can it be?
16th Sep 2008, 12:39
Although I am JAA, my new FAA licensed friend recently told me that he sat all his FAA written exams PPL, CPL FI before even stepping foot into a plan, could this be true?
16th Sep 2008, 15:49
Well, it my always my impression that for Integrated, at least a PPL (Pass) is required before sitting the JAA theory exams. For Modular I am certain that a PPL is required.
So, I am assuming you are FAA? Or can someone advise whether you can sit all exams, by this I clearly mean doing a CPL and or IR or FI without having a PPL practical
16th Sep 2008, 16:44
On most JAA integrated courses (CTC being the exception), all of the ATPL exams are completed before the student starts the flying.
16th Sep 2008, 16:55
....which, by default, means that the course is not integrated - it's modular, dressed up as integrated (and charged likewise).
16th Sep 2008, 17:08
I'm not sure I understand your point...
16th Sep 2008, 20:56
It doesn't matter - if the Authorities don't care then what's the point in fretting about it.
The entire industry is just "smoke and mirrors" - it just needs to "look" good.
But (shouldn't start a sentence with "But"), if all the exams are done, then all the flying is done afterwards, it cannot be an INTEGRATED course. Can it?
The course is done in modules - ground, then PPL equivalent, then hour building equivalent, then CPL equivalent, then IR equivalent.....and the "progress tests" underline that.
It's modular - you just do it all at one school, wear the same uniform and pay twice as much. But it's modular by definition of what an "integrated" course is supposed to be (and used to be).
(I did it again).
16th Sep 2008, 23:29
Actually, one of the common feature of the integrated courses in JARland (again CTC excluded) is that all of the ATPL exams are taken before the flying programme commences.
I understand the semantic (linguistic?) point that you are making. However, as I understand it, for a course to be "integrated" under JAR, a number of criteria have to be met. If these criteria are not met, then by definition the course cannot call itself integrated, and is by default modular. Whether or not you do flying at the same time as exams is irrelevant as a determinant.
In fact, on the old CTC course the flying programme commenced from week 2 in New Zealand, about two months before ATPL study started. The old CTC course was modular, and yet you could, I suppose, argue that it was the most "integrated" course on the market.
17th Sep 2008, 02:55
Yeah, yeah - you must be right.
I was talking of the days before you were old enough to hold a CPL.
17th Sep 2008, 03:30
With FAA rules (see FAR 61), you can take all written tests any time before start of flight training.
This applies to PPL, CPL and IR.
Passing grade is 70% or better.
Written exams remain valid for 2 years.
Should you not complete the flight check within 2 years, you have to complete the written again.
There is even a FAA licence (certificate) you can obtain without an oral/practical exam.
The FAA Ground Instructor Certificate.
You can take the written Basic Ground Instructor.
Then take the Instrument Ground Instructor.
With the above, you can be issued a Ground Instructor Certificate.
It permits you to give required FAA classroom instruction.
Included, you can be a simulator/ground training device instructor and train pilots for the IR...
No medical certificate required.
Ground Instructor Certificates are permanent, no expiration dates.
If you hold a Ground Instructor Certificate, you are NOT required to pass the Fundamentals of Instruction again, which is part of the the written CFI Flight Instructor exam.
17th Sep 2008, 09:03
BelArg made that ground instructor thing sound too easy. What he forgot to mention was:
1. You must make your application for the certificate at the FSDO. (Part 1 of your non-existent oral)
2. There's a recency of experience (3 months as a ground instructor in the past 12 months) and/or endorsement (from a qualified ground or flight instructor) required to exercise the privileges of the certificate (same as the pilot certificates with their non-expiring nature). (Part 2 of your non-existent oral).
3. Any sim training you provide may NOT be used to comply with any flight currency or rating requirements where the use of a simulator is authorized. Only a qualified flight instructor may provide/endorse that training.
I've never heard of any 61, 141, or 142 operator using someone with a ground instructor certificate only to provide sim training. The only exception, by reg, would be if the sim was part of a 121 training operation, and the instructor was a typed ATP.