How's This for a Plan?

[Lt. Kije]

I'm considering taking the wife and cats to the UK. She believes that once we got there she wouldn't be allowed to work, being a US citizen and all, but I would so she would take care of me and do volunteer work. I've got about 3,700 hours as PIC-helicopter, an instrument rating, experience in twins and singles, have most recently flown EMS. Here's the plan:

get hired on at Bristow, in this case Air Log
be an exemplary employee, completing my ATP along the way
talk my way into a twin-engine job (I've already got time in the BK and the Blowchow)
transfer to Aberdeen
move wife and catsOkay, where's the problem? Would it work? If not, why not?

Thanks!

[GoodGrief]

Got JAA certificates?

[Lt. Kije]

Nope, just FAA flypaper. I figured that when Bristow wants to approve my transfer, they'd have me checkride with the person that can issue the required certificates.

[GoodGrief]

No information at all on the subjects, whatsoever.
A bit naive, aren't we...

[Lt. Kije]

Good Grief,

So, apart from snarky, insulting comments from the security of anonymity, have you anything useful to say? Perhaps, dare we to hope, an answer to what I hope I phrased as a polite, respectful series of questions?

However, I'll answer yours, though I assume your omission of the question mark was merely an oversight. What's education coming to these days?

I am not naive, I am confident. I realise that my confidence could be mistaken for naivete in one who know as little about me as does Your Eminence.

I have taken the civilian path in the US, and if you don't know how difficult that was, I suppose I can assume your lack of respect stems from that ignorance. I have flown junk helicopters because I had to in order to have a job. Can you recite the procedure for a tail rotor failure? I've had it happen six times and never scratched the paint. I've had engines quit in the weirdest way possible and gotten my people safely to the ground.

I've flown twins and singles, and been thanked by the families of the people whose lives I've saved.

So if I think I can find an oil platform, it's not that I'm naive, it's that I've done far tougher things than that. If I think I can learn the European variants on regulations that I already know, I have reason to believe that I can.

[unstable load]

Oh, and don't expect to see the cats for 6 months while they are in quarantine, and as for the rest, I suggest you look into it a bit deeper.Right now, as far as plans go, I would not even move across country on that one!

[paco]

Hmm - bit more than just a checkride. Try 13 written exams. You will look much more attractive if you've taken the trouble to do something about that!

Got any multi-crew time?

Phil

[jemax]

The 800 hours of study for the ATPL exams you'll have to take to get a JAA ticket took me 7 months and that was studying full time, no day job and I believe that's reasonably quick.

[FloaterNorthWest]

Lt Kije,

I wouldn't expect the big operators to do anything for you. They have a large pool of people who want to work for them who have already ticked all the boxes.

You may also want to look into the Psychometric testing that they do and the conduct of the interview. I feel you may fall at this hurdle.

I wouldn't want, currently, to move to this country but the best of luck.

FNW

[ATPMBA]

JAA - you need get through the ATPL writtens. You can do a distance learning course and you may have to travel to the UK for exams and an initial 1st class physical. You may need to budget $7,000+ for GS, travel, consolidation courses just for the ATPL writtens. Those exams are tough, you will be humbled. I started the course and got side-tracked, I did an MBA degree and it was an easier than the ATPL. An example is in the FAA IR guide they have not even one page on the magnetic compass, ATPL had 32 pages!!!! You even learn how to do a compass swing and calc all the coefficents. American ATP's KNOW NOTHING. I'm not putting down American ATPs but I'm telling you like it is. American ATPs get from point A to B safely but do they know falling snow may cause precipatation static and effect the accuracy of an ADF? Or how wide a 1 degree VOR radial gets from the station (Rule of 60). Lot's of good stuff but as a professional do you want to be the best or just someone who gets by?

Do you have a college degree? Garduate degrees are better. Search the web for UK Immigration. You may come across an online qustionare as they use a point system.


Also, after September 30th the OCS drilling ban expires unless congress votes it in again. If the OCS opens up you may have some good oppurtunities here in the states.



Best of Luck

[[email protected]]

Lt Kije - our govt is broke, our cost of living is going through the roof and we don't have sun in the Summer any more - what on earth would possess you to move over here - even if you did have any of the right qualifications?

[Troglodita]

Lt Kije,

Some advice!

To use your words: -


I have flown junk helicopters because I had to in order to have a job.


Never admit this ever again outside of the USA!

Can you recite the procedure for a tail rotor failure? I've had it happen six times and never scratched the paint.

Yes I can - as a JAA TRE/IRE/SFE/FAA Check Airman/Instructor I teach the procedure on Class D 6 axis simulators but would question your sanity whereby you continue to fly "junk helicopters" that suffer this level of catastrophic failure.

Once again I suggest: -
Never admit this ever again outside of the USA!

Finally


and been thanked by the families of the people whose lives I've saved.


May I respectfully suggest that you didn't save anyone - you put lives in danger recklessly and needlessly by knowingly flying "junk helicopters"

Trog

[blade root]

I think Hitler had less maybe/what if's in his plan for world domination...

All the best to you and Eva !!!

[Whirlygig]

If neither you nor Mrs. Kije have UK citizenship and/or right to work here plus only having FAA licences, you're facing a whole heap of paperwork and permissions plus converting to JAA.

In order for Bristow in the UK to employ someone from overseas, they have to prove to the Home Office that they cannot find a suitably qualified and experienced EU citizen to do the job. That might be a tad tricky as there is not a great deal of recruitment going on at the moment.

You will have to sit the 13/14 JAA exams although with your hours, you may be exempt the classroom element. Your conversion for flying for CPL will be training as required and the IR conversion is a minimum of 15 hours plus a twin-engine rating.

Have you considered the cost of living in Aberdeen? If your wife cannot work here (and it's unlikely if you are both US citizens unless she has a qualification that is needed - we're short of bloodstock trainers apparently!) then supporting the both of you on a co-pilot salary may be difficult.

Your plan as it stands needs a lot more research and I'm not being rude or sarky!

Cheers

Whirls

[Lt. Kije]

I'm sorry. I thought this was the PPRuNe board. From the level of politeness and respect I perceive that I have in fact wandered into JustHelicopters. My mistake.

I'll go over to PPRuNe instead, where I've had the experience of asking respectful questions without being insulted for my trouble. Good day.

Oh, wait a minute. While I was writing that, I see that Whirls has replied like a gentleperson. Thank you. I agree that the plan miight need more research. My research has begin with asking the people who are there. It seemed the shortest way of finding out whether or not to continue the research.

[flyer43]

I'm sorry. I thought this was the PPRuNe board. From the level of politeness and respect I perceive that I have in fact wandered into JustHelicopters. My mistake.

Actually, I think that you have been let off quite lightly at the moment! Watch this space.....
For somebody who states up front, "I am not naive, I am confident", you are obviously not confident enough to research your requirements through the normal channels before looking to Ppruners to do all the leg work for you.
However, in between all the wit and sarcasm, you have been given many gems of wisdom and truth from which you should be able to make a reasoned decision......

Brian

PS: What on earth does "gotten" mean?

[GoodGrief]

Don't know what to think of this guy...

Look at his thread here:
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/339650-contracting-advice.html

It is from August,his wife has the job of her dreams, they don't want to move.

And

He had never had an accident or incident.

I would consider an engine out or a tail rotor failure an incident...

[Matthew Parsons]

Lt Kije,

Heed the criticism and information with respect to the way you present yourself. Despite similiar language and linked pasts, you will discover that there is a different culture and the people here are helping to educate you on that.

The cats may not need 6 mos. quarantine. Check out the Pet Travel Scheme at Defra, UK - Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (http://www.defra.gov.uk)

They aren't kidding about licences, it is much more work than you've acknowledged.

Despite the problems with the country some have identified, I would quite willingly return there to work.

Good luck.


flyer43,
In some english speaking countries "gotten" is a valid past participle of "get". Also, gotten is still in use in the UK within phrases such as "ill-gotten".

(Goodgrief, sorry for attributing the last to you)


ATPMBA,
Having written a harder exam does not make a better pilot. More knowledge does not necessarily make a better pilot. Be careful of how you boast or who you criticize.



Troglodita,
May I respectfully suggest that you didn't save anyone - you put lives in danger recklessly and needlessly by knowingly flying

Well said. Not only did he admit to knowingly endangering his passengers, he also ensured that "junk helicopter" operators can stay in business.


Matthew.

[GoodGrief]

Hi Matthew,

"gotten" wasn't me.
I know what it means.

[Jarvy]

Stay in the US is my advice. I'm about to move to the US (CT) and life there seems much better but then I won't need to work as its my wife that has transfered. So its a FAA cpl for me and plenty of golf.
Our cat is coming, he has his passport and is all ready to go.
Jarvy

[flyer43]

Lt. Kije

Your music's not bad though, so maybe you should concentrate on that........??

[Whirlygig]

Yeah but he's going to want to bring all the furniture, not just the suite! :}

Cheers

Whirls

[ATPMBA]

FYI

What is the highly skilled worker category?

The highly skilled worker category is designed to allow highly skilled people to come to the United Kingdom to look for work or self-employment opportunities.


Who can apply as a highly skilled worker?

Unlike our work permits (soon to be replaced by sponsored skilled workers - tier 2), you do not need a job offer to apply under the highly skilled worker category. When you apply you are awarded points based on your qualifications, previous earnings, United Kingdom experience, age, English language skills, and available maintenance (funds).

[Whirlygig]

Not sure Helicopter Pilot is classed as a highly skilled worker! (http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/workingintheuk/tier1/general/eligibility/pointsassessment/qualifications/)

Cheers

Whirls

[darrenphughes]

Stay in the US is my advice. I'm about to move to the US (CT) and life there seems much betterThat will ring true if good ould' Mc Cain doesn't get into office! Otherwise 4 more years of the current FIASCO will turn things for the worse, even worse than it is now!!

Having written a harder exam does not make a better pilot. More knowledge does not necessarily make a better pilot. I gotta agree with the first sentence but not the second. I'm doing the ATPL(H) right now and most of the questions make me want to shoot myself:yuk:! But I still believe knowledge is more than half the battle to stay safe in this business. You know the saying "A superiour pilot uses his superiour knowledge to stay out of situations where his superiour skills are required to get out of"

Just my thoughts! Not that anyone asked for them, but you're getting them anyway:ok:!!

Lt. Kije, You've got a good 6-9 months study ahead of you before you'll get to fly in the UK. Unfortunately sad but true. I do think the standard of living is higher though, so you may find that it's worth it.

[Revolutionary]

Aw C'mon! C'MON!!! You have had 6 (six) tail rotor failures?!? And several engine failures? All in 3,700 hours?!?!?

The only way I would believe that is if you were flying a Rotorway Shark built out of driftwood by a retarded monkey.

Seriously, many people will never have even a single catastrophic component failure in the course of an entire career. Those that, by their own admission, fly 'junk' helicopters may up the odds somewhat but not to the point of having a calamity every 500 hours on average.

You should be banished to Siberia for telling such grotesquely tall tales, Lieutenant. Check with Bristow though... they may have a base there.

Hmmmmmmm, deep breath Revo. Okay. I feel better now. About your question: There are two problems with your grandiose plan. One is that Air Log in Louisiana and Bristow in Aberdeen are not close sisters as you assume, but rather distant cousins with about as much in common as Barack Obama and Dick Cheney. Working for one will likely get you no closer to working for the other.

The other problem is more of a philosophical one, and here I am speaking to you in a fatherly sort of way (although I am quite sure that I never met your mother): If you spend years focusing on that one dream job to the exclusion of everything else, you are in for a letdown once you get there because that dream job of yours will turn out to be quite mundane -like every other job- within about two weeks.

My advice (if you still want it): stick with the first three bullet points and don't worry about where it will lead. Down the line something will come to you. And your wife. And your cats. Good luck, Pinocchio.

[Matthew Parsons]

darrenphughes,

I guess I should qualify, "More knowledge does not necessarily make a better pilot." I agree that more relevant knowledge does, but being able to describe the tool used to set the rivets to attach the wing tends not to help one become a good pilot.

Much like being able to do all the work of a compass swing. Don't we train AMEs to do that stuff? If we can do their job does that make us better pilots? More versatile employees, perhaps, but not better pilots, IMO.

Cheers,
Matthew.

[darrenphughes]

darrenphughes,

I guess I should qualify, "More knowledge does not necessarily make a better pilot." I agree that more relevant knowledge does, but being able to describe the tool used to set the rivets to attach the wing tends not to help one become a good pilot.

Much like being able to do all the work of a compass swing. Don't we train AMEs to do that stuff? If we can do their job does that make us better pilots? More versatile employees, perhaps, but not better pilots, IMO.

Cheers,
Matthew.Couldn't have said it better myself. I think we'd all be better off if we were tested on books like "Cyclic & Collective" and "Fatal traps for helicopter pilots" and many other books like that, instead of the DRIVEL that the JAA thinks is important.

[handbag]

Ok, so you think the US sucks.Have you been to Scotland before and had first hand experience of the 'Jock'?Take a vacation first then make you're mind up!!:}

[darrenphughes]

Ok, so you think the US sucks.Have you been to Scotland before and had first hand experience of the 'Jock'?Take a vacation first then make you're mind up!!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

I'll take it that was aimed at me! I don't know where you got "the US sucks" from. Everyone knows that the global economy is in the ****ter right now, but having lived in Ireland & California, spent a ****load of time in England and Scotland working, and now living in New York, I think I'm qualified to make the observation that the standard of living for the average "Joe" is slightly higher on the east side of the pond. And I think it'll get a lot worse for Americans if the grave dodger gets in!!! But that's just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions!!:hmm:

[SASless]

Crab,

Less the Sunshine....you just described the USA....price of petrol went up Dollar a gallon today alone....due to Hurricane Ike heading into the GOM.

I'm thinking of trying to find a Winkle franchise for purchase in the UK....at least the beer is real there!

[parabellum]

Rather a long time ago I enquired as to why we had to do the compass swing questions for the ATPL and was told that the CAA, (actually BoT then!), had to assume worst case scenario. This might mean you have landed somewhere after a lightening strike, for example, and with no AME available, because you are multi faceted and can do compass swings you could over see a swing and legally depart! (Can you believe it!:rolleyes:).

Personally I forgot everything I knew about compass swings five minutes after the exams! If you really want to test yourself try the question that only gives three headings! I had to sit Instruments twice because of that, barstewards!:ouch:

Lt. Kije, if you are still with us, invest in a 'phone call to the CAA in the UK. In the past they have sent out a form on which you list ALL your experience, licences held etc. return this form accompanied by certified true copies of your log-books and licences and a fat cheque, they then assess you and advise exactly what you will need to do to get a UK licence. As has already been mentioned, it is quite a lot.

[Lord Mount]

Troglodita & Matthew,

In the pursuit of a ballanced argument I have to say that having read the earlier post regarding being thanked by the families of the people whose lives he saved, I immediately assumed he was talking about his EMS flying.

I don't think he was bragging abut saving people whose lives he had put at risk by knowingly flying them into unsafe conditions.

That having been said I believe he is now aware that the rules and regulations pertaining to employment in this field are far more complicated and stringent on this side of the Atlantic than he had envisioned.:ugh:

[Troglodita]

SASless

Stop Press: Margate Seafood Purveyors Weekly.


Ill Health due to heavy metal poisoning forces sale

Winkle and Jellied Eel mobile unit complete with propane boilers, scum skimmers, winkle pins and hi tech advertising units (blackboards and 4 sticks of chalk) for sale.
Margate area. Would suit semi retired seafaring gentleman with multi lingual tendencies and ability to deal with Truckers.
Never raced or rallied – new tyres in 1987 – MOT till end September.

Ask for Chas or Dave.


Just what you were looking for - mind you - don't think you can just turn up as a US citizen and steal a job that could be easily done by highly skilled Bulgarian, Romanian, Latvian or Polish workers! Your 2 day course at the ACME school of Clam Bakers will not be any use to you here!

Oh no - you will need to sit 13/14 exams including learning the latin names of every shellfish or marine vertebrate known to man and know the entire process from initial discovery of oil or gas deposits to the production of the propane being used for your boiler! Then there is food hygiene and Elf and Safety and even safe disposal of used winkle shells so as not to exacerbate Global Warning to consider.

Will this make you a better Winkle Seller - of course it will - stands to reason!

Oh no - we don't issue Winkle licences to all and sundry stamped "Not valid in the UK" and have loads of foreigners turning up on foreign shores claiming to have all sorts of rubber stamped qualifications and harming the natives!

We have Standards.

Stick to the Caribbean mate.

Trog

[Whirlygig]

I'll take it that was aimed at me!
Actually, I don't think it was. I suspect it was aimed at the thread starter!

Troglodita :ok: :} :p ;) :D

Cheers

Whirls

[darrenphughes]

Actually, I don't think it was. I suspect it was aimed at the thread starter!

Troglodita http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/badteeth.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/tongue.gif http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif :D

Cheers

Whirls

Good point. I thought it was a reaction to my little rant about standard of living! Whoops!!:O

[Senior Pilot]

I'm thinking of trying to find a Winkle franchise for purchase in the UK....at least the beer is real there!

I'm sorry, SAS, but the adoption papers that we submitted were rejected due to your Louisiana heritage, so no EU passport after all :=

And CAMRA have also rejected your application, due to a destroyed palate after too many years of watching Bud adverts :p

[rudestuff]

don't forget, if you go to Aberdeen - there's the language barrier.

[Phil77]

Matthew P.: :D:D:D
(very thoughtful... couldn't have worded your first comment better - not even in my mother tongue :ok: )

I don't know if knowing how ADF's work in a snow-storm will make me a better pilot if you hardly have any NDB's in the US anymore?! Not to mention that I try not to be in icing conditions (in a helicopter that is) in the first place.

Agreed, the US-system should demand more knowledge than it is now, but the european system certainly overshoots the target.

(I have the study material for the JAA ATPL on the shelf at home, so I know what I'm talking about)

[Mr Toad]

Lt Kilje you will by now have realised that your UK ambition may not be simple.

If you and your family really want to live and fly here, follow the good advice in Parabellum's last paragraph. Once you have an Assessment you can start working out whether and how you can acheive your ambition. Refer also to Whirls's DERA link and Immigration advice.

Finally it's got to be said that there are no job guarantees in this life. So don't sell up until you've acheived everything you need AND have a signed contract of employment in your hand. Meantime keep earning good US$.

It's quite a gamble, your plan. Good luck.

[FLY 7]

I love the UK, England can be a great place to live with easy access to most of Europe. Scotland is a bit more remote, but will appeal more to some people, less to others.

We have enjoyed strong economic growth, but the sentiment is not optimistic, with the threat of recession (and two poor summers doesn't help the mood:bored:), so the timing for anyone re-locating might not be ideal.

Having said that, do a lot more research, and bear in mind that the best opportunities can often be found just before an economy emerges out of recession.

Good luck

[EN48]

"having lived in Ireland & California, spent a ****load of time in England and Scotland working, and now living in New York"


California & NY not necessariliy representative of quality of life/cost of living in the U.S. It could be argued that these represent the lowest quality and highest cost regions. Cost of living in may other areas as much as one half less. Perhaps an even greater difference in some areas.

[ShyTorque]

We got enough darned cats here, already..... :rolleyes:

[paco]

Especially these...

Cats That Look Like Hitler! (http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com)

Phil

[BlenderPilot]

I have flown junk helicopters because I had to in order to have a job. Can you recite the procedure for a tail rotor failure? I've had it happen six times and never scratched the paint. I've had engines quit in the weirdest way possible and gotten my people safely to the ground.

I've flown twins and singles, and been thanked by the families of the people whose lives I've saved.

This made me think, isn't being a pilot about determining which aircraft are airworthy or not? (Which aircraft are going to endager the people you carry and yourself)?

You said you've had 6 tail rotor failures, and more than one engine failure, so to me it sounds as if you are "not doing any job at all" regarding making sure your aircraft is safe to fly, and I doubt that relaxed is going to do well at a place like Bristow.

I don't think 6 tail rotor failures and it's share of engine failures can be called "bad luck", it's more like carelesness about the aircraft you fly. The word Preflight comes to mind here.

You have been very close to instead of "being thanked for saving people in an emergency" being called "negligent and endangering the lives of the people who trusted you aboard those Junk Helicopters" you are talking about.

[Droopy]

Well, as a professional one would expect that you have taken an interest in the NTSB reports on your various incidents. References/links for the rest of us to peruse would therefore be easily available.....

[helimutt]

troll alert. 16yr old's wind up.:=

[Teefor Gage]

helimutt -
Not if the link in his user profile is correct! But he could well have tarred himself by now .......

[JBL99]

He seems to have gone very quiet ?:rolleyes:

[darrenphughes]

Just checked out the website, and aah, this guy is starting to look like a total fruit to me!!

[JBL99]

I just hope he hasn't had another one of his "incidents" !

[[email protected]]

Yes, his website does make it look like helicopter flying is a long way down his list of priorities.

Would you get in a helicopter with someone who looked like this?

Darren Raleigh - A Bard of the Harp - PICTURES (http://www.darrenraleigh.com/photos.html)

[Dan Reno]

Let the personal attacks begin.

How immature is this?

[Whirlygig]

We got enough darned cats here,
...and bitches, so it would seem! :}

I quite like his music; sort of stuff I murder on the banjo! :ouch: :p

However, from an immigration point of view, it puts a different complexion on the situation as artists and musicians have different rules and criteria if they wish to live and work in the UK.

Cheers

Whirls

[[email protected]]

It's called banter Dan, lighten up:) I'm sure someone of the stature of the multi-talented Lt Klije will come back with a witty riposte in due course.

He does, however, seem to have gone very quiet since the conflicting stories on two different threads were highlighted.

[ivakontrol]

Am I missing something?

'I have flown junk helicopters because I had to in order to have a job. Can you recite the procedure for a tail rotor failure? I've had it happen six times and never scratched the paint. I've had engines quit in the weirdest way possible and gotten my people safely to the ground'.

I thought he was referring to flying model aircraft? ;)

[[email protected]]

Clearly I have to spell out what I thought most would understand - I was referring to the 3rd picture on the bio page where Darren is in full Shakespearean Actor garb - a bit of a luvvie to us Brits.:)

[handbag]

thread starter

1} select edit post

2}select delete

3}no reason required

[ShyTorque]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShyTorque
We got enough darned cats here,

...and bitches, so it would seem!

HoHo Whirls, GOTCHA! :E

Now just how did I guess that the Norfolk branch of the cats protection league would be first on the scene.....? :p

Talking of licence upgrades, Howgozit gal? :)

With regard to getting in a helicopter with someone who looks like this, yes I would and have in the past. My view (despite my previous banter), is that if he can get himself a licence and the right to work in UK, I wish good luck on him. Meanwhile, I'm off to harp lessons because they will obviously soon be needing a replacement over there. ;)

[Sven Sixtoo]

Hi

The one thing missing from all the comments is anything about Aberdeen.

Now I was born there and lived all of my first 22 yrs there and a couple of the next 6 yrs, so I'm biased.

The best I can say is that Aberdeen (like Laphroaig) is an acquired taste. Its 56 and a lot degrees North (that's the same as the bottom of Alaska, and a hundred miles or so north of Moscow). I have bitter memories of winter snows, which weren't even pretty - the snow is just around melting and accumulates in heaps and gets unprettily in the way. The north-east wind anytime from November to March is just miserable.

I flew SAR for 5 years out of a base just north of Aberdeen. I frankly admit that I have diverted on a SAROp in a Sea King while Bristow's pilots out of Aberdeen were punching through the weather in a 61-N. I will not, for a variety of reasons, work for Bristows on the North Sea run. (OK I'm at the end of my career and don't need a job from them).

On the other hand, the Scottish education system is magnificent, so if you are bringing the kids you would do hard to do better. Also, Scottish healthcare is better than the UK generally (and is mostly free), and Aberdeen houses a fine teaching hospital with high skill levels.

And it's a remarkably civilised place given worldwide standards for oil cities.

Sven