View Full Version : Real Life Piloting?
11th Sep 2008, 19:13
Unsure if this is right section, but anyway...
I really want to be a pilot in real, as will many other people on here. Im currently in Year11 in High School/Last year, and I was wondering what's the first step for me in becoming a pilot?
Is there any aviation courses in college, ect, that I need to take? Or do I just go to a Flying School?
And how much approx' will this cost me?
11th Sep 2008, 20:32
Basically... Finish school then decide if you want to go to college/university if not then go straight to a flight school and start training.
Costs vary from £35,000-85,000.
12th Sep 2008, 14:39
I guess that means I dont need to go to college/uni' to be a pilot? :D
12th Sep 2008, 15:42
12th Sep 2008, 15:59
and a quick read of Rainboe's own post...
a quick read of your enquiry showed up 3 grammar lapses
Still we don't practice that which we preach here, simply not cricket old chap.
12th Sep 2008, 17:18
Perhaps considering joining the Services and serving your country for a few years to repay learning to fly?
That approach will go down like a lead balloon at the Armed Forces Careers Office (AFCO). It will save you the effort of having to pass Officer and Aircrew Selection Centre (OASC) because you will not get that far. You need to demonstrate that you want to be a military pilot, not just someone seeking an alternative route into civil aviation.
12th Sep 2008, 20:09
12th Sep 2008, 20:42
Yellow Sun- all very well to say that, but an established route to an airline career is from the military in all countries, so a wannabee should consider this as an option open to him if he has the motivation as well to go in the military. Have you got any suggestions for him?
I know, I took it. But if you go into an AFCO with that as your aim you are on a hiding to nothing. That is sound advice.
12th Sep 2008, 23:37
Rainboe (http://www.pprune.org/members/104343-rainboe), I'm not quite sure what the point is that your trying to say about my grammer. My grammar isn't exactly the best on PCs as I would rather write faster ect... So I normally miss out 's if thats what you mean...
My writing beats my typing. And Ive been reading other topics and most people have said fly for the RAF or something, but then there are stonger arguements about why not to do that so, I think I'll leave the RAF out of this...
The Real Slim Shady
13th Sep 2008, 10:32
Before you spend a penny on any training go and get the Class1 medical.
Once you have the medical certificate you can proceed to empty your wallet.
13th Sep 2008, 19:08
I'm in exactly the same position as you year 11, wannabe airline pilot and a couple of flying lessons under the belt. The careers advice woman and some reserching online also contacting airlines to ask what kind of things they look for in a prospective candidates education suggests, finish school (get good grades). Then go and get A levels if you fail the medical you you have a qualification to fall back on. Preferably studying Maths, English and physics. Apparently they look good even if you fail.
Then look to flying schools both self funded and sponsored by airlines although becoming more and more scarce. Many flying schools offer financial aid. London University offer an aviation course that gives an ATPL and a degree in aviation management. Then when you have an ATPL offer your services for free to parachute schools for instance or glider clubs.
Also when looking at sponsorship a good way to show that you are truely enthusiastic about flying is to have self payed yourself through a PPL course. Hope i'll see you in the skies some day, good luck.
13th Sep 2008, 21:41
If you decide on the military route then beware! The current situation does not bode well for the airline industry for the coming months/years. As the industry is basically cyclical then this comes as no real surprise.
The military is a well trodden path to the airlines. However it takes time, commitment and dedication. The CAA dispensations to military pilots as far as hours flown and exams required don't start until at least 2000 hours. New JAA accreditation are floating about somewhere and it is unknown if any dispensations will be given at all! Given that many squadrons 'average' monthly flying rate will be 15-18 hours per month and taking leave and ground duties into account you won't be hitting the magic number for a fair few years. Most recruiting stations would boot you out of the door if your 'primary aim' was a short cut to civil flying cheaply. As would most training squadrons. Add in that the return of service for the military will be at least 6 years and you will be starting your 'civvie' career late. The up sides are camaraderie, fantastic flying and lots of fun. Plus the ability to fly aircraft and helos to the limits of their operational ability.
Otherwise go for a recognised flight training school, work hard, pass everything first time and hope you get picked up by a good carrier. Downside, expect to pay upto £85,000-£120,000 for your training. Upside, early into a carrier if you're lucky and a good start on the 'seniority' ladder.
20th Sep 2008, 00:38
Then when you have an ATPL offer your services for free
...only if you want to make yourself deeply unpopular. Some of us have to fly for a living, chap. How many lawyers or doctors do you know who provide their professional services 'for free'?
I realise you're still pretty young, and wish you every success. I was mad keen to fly at your age also, but there comes a time when it becomes Your Job (enjoyable as it still is), and for me flying is my sole income. Having people knocking at the door offering to do our job for nothing doesn't exactly rock my boat ;)
25th Sep 2008, 17:02
"London University offer an aviation course that gives an ATPL and a degree in aviation management"
Anyone who wants a career as a management pilot at 16 needs looking at by a medical professional...:}
Wholly agree with Speed Twelve, It becomes your job no matter how much you love it. I certainly wouldn't go around whoring out your flying services after you invest 70k+ into training, the key word investment meaning there is a return after a period of time no? :rolleyes:
Besides I don't really know of many opportunities other than instruction or RHS for a CPL/IR 150hrs. Not many Air Taxi firms would touch someone with a blue licence for single pilot ops. And as for banner towing and crop spraying gigs, I would struggle to find many of those either.
We're all keen and love our job, I certainly do, and there aren't many airline pilots who are desperately unhappy, but I'm afraid you can't just do it for the love...
unless your Bruce Dickinson:)
25th Sep 2008, 20:38
Definatly not looking at aviation management! Actually definatly not looking at anything that doesn't involve an office at 37,00ft. Just saying that it's a useful thing to have under the belt because it gives you doorways for if you can't immediatly find work as a pilot.
Thanks for the advice on the "whoring of services" was actually told about that one whilst on work experience as a good way to build hours. :eek:
26th Sep 2008, 16:44
Well considering alot of airlines are trying to offer voluntary redudancy and unpaid leave to various management, I wouldn't bank on airline management as some 'safe' bet.
If you want some sound fiscal advice, learn an in-demand trade, eventually get your own little business and fly for fun!
But... As we all know the heart can rule over the head, so if you are intent on doing it for a living I would suggest maybe having a lesson or two to see if it actually is for you, then doing your Class One medical to make sure nothing can stop you health wise.
There is no easy route into this game, you can either stump up the 60k+ via a bank loan and go for an integrated course, with an aim to be taken on after leaving direct into the RHS.
Or go modular, spend half as much, take longer (depending on your finances and availability for training) and apply to airlines, flightschools and everything and anything that involves flying an aeroplane for a living.
There are many pitfalls, and I know from personal experience of people who have failed and quit at the first JAA exams, and people who have failed and quit at the end of their line training in an airline, and every other stage inbetween.:(
Given the rate of cadets being dumped into the job market with 150hrs, you need to differentiate yourself from the others. Be it all first time passes, some background in aviation, an honours degree, anything that can make an airline recruiter pick you and not the next candidate.
Being tagged to an airline can help, and this generally happens through the integrated route, but don't count this as some kind of security, just ask the thomsonfly cadets from Jerez. :ugh:
Sponsorship is more or less a thing of the past, RVL/Highland Airways being probably the only ones left that I can think of. The Government won't help either so you really do have to go it alone in the training world.
AND remember it's never in the bag until the ink's dry on your final line check report, and even then, standards must be maintained to the required level!
It takes time, effort, dedication, money and some degree of luck to make it into the RHS, and if your only 16, it's a long way to go yet, the youngest guy I know of was 18 when he joined GB, but that's the exception and not the norm.
It's a fantastic career, and sitting at 35,000 feet makes you realise it was worth it, but go into it with open eyes and dedication and hopefully you'll be one of the ones warming a seat on the flightdeck of some type or other :)
27th Sep 2008, 19:48
Thanks for the great reply. :ok: Found it really interesting.
I've actually started some flight lessons for the PPL. Just some small things that I wanted to get cleared up that I wasn't to sure about. If I could get my PPL and then also get some hours under the belt with the PPL. Would this kind of thing set me apart from the next candidate?
I don't have unlimited resources, but i'm ready to work every night of the week to be apple to stump up the £120 to lease an aircraft on the weekend to build some hours. Would that be a good idea or a stupid waste of money?
Thanks in advance.
27th Sep 2008, 23:23
I'm not massively far in my aviation career, i've done instructing for a year, aerial survey for 6 months and just about to go single pilot IFR charter, but this is the route i wanted.
First of all, regarding your age i'd be thinking twice about getting yourself into the cockpit of an airliner (not counting the massive downturn of pilots at the moment!) as soon as possible, like another poster said it is a job, i knew a guy who was 25, captain of a 737, JAA examiner etc etc done incredibly well but was bored and could see himself changing careers in 10years time! Personaly i've worked my ass off for many years to get a paying job and in a fortunate position to still be young enough to be able to take my time and try several different flying jobs before settling into work!
I knew a few young guys who got themselves jobs in the operations departements of airlines, bizjets, charter firms etc, you baisially file flight plans etc but very much aviation related and looks great on your CV, again shows a real dedication to wanting to be a pilot (and can pay quite well!). Also try looking outside the box, even though i was raised in UK the opportunity arose for me to do my training in New Zealand, i'm not saying everyone gets this opprtunity but there are many other paths out there away from Oxford and Jerez.
One more point is that seeing how your doing your PPL and looking to hour build modular is probably a good option, most integrated students start with maybe 1-2 hours flying. Again I would discourage integrated especially at the moment, its an AWFUL lot of money with no guarantee of a job and a very unstable market.
Best of luck to you, the best bit of advise i had to learn hard way is apart from getting from A-B, NOTHING happens quickly in aviation! I believe most other pilots would agree!
28th Sep 2008, 23:11
It always amazes me how some people run to the Airlines as quick as they can walk, And end up in the RH seat and then wish they had done something else with their money/loan?
That's only a small minority thou, And I think most 'newbies' seem to enjoy the 'Actual' job.
Although sometimes you can fly alongside some 'Boring' type pilot's who don't have as much enthusiasm what the job needs, And that makes the job a bit harder.
I'm not painting a dark picture here, Just commenting on some of the type of pilot's you may eventually work with.
29th Sep 2008, 19:05
Hours building isn't a waste of time, but if you want to go to one of the bigger schools, it's pointless to do 150/200 hours of PPL flying because it won't help too much beyond the VFR phase of training. I went to FTE with 70 hours on a PPL, now whether that set me apart from other candidates at the job stage, who knows? But to have done that at 16/17 hopefully showed enthusiasm! :)
29th Sep 2008, 21:48
I was wondering what's the first step for me in becoming a pilot?
Surprised nobody has mentioned it already, so I will......
Try looking here :-
Wannabes Forums - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/wannabes-forums-102/)
All the questions you are thinking of will have been answered in those forums at one time or another. Use the search function too to help you look for the info you require.
I'd start with reading these threads :-