AAC or RAF crewman??

[cbzz101]

Hi, I apologise in advance for a lengthy post and a lot of questions but i'm looking for a bit of help. I would like a career as a crewman on helicopters but am unsure whether to go for AAC or RAF. I'm 28 with a degree, active lifestyle and a keen interest in the military. I did try for RAF WSOp recently but did not pass OASC (failed exercise phase) - can try again but only once, and there's obviously a chance I might fail it again! Have started my army application and scored well on my BARB, pretty confident about the rest of it so hopefully be no issues with that. Problem is, with the RAF I could get streamed any way and don't know if I would really enjoy EW or ACO, as to me it really seems its pretty much a desk job in the sky (please correct me if i'm misguided here!) I'm really looking for a more active, hands on job. However with the army there is a chance I wouldn't get the opportunity for crewman - does anybody know how available places are for this? Also do you only spend a few years doing this job and then go back to ground duties? Can anybody tell me a bit more about the crewman's role in the AAC, is it as challenging and as involved as WSOp and is there opportunity for progression in that role? With the army there is also the possibility of pilot training down the line but is there an age limit for this? I know in the RAF that they spend quite a lot of time flying and on deployments at the moment, is this the same with the AAC? Sorry, a lot of questions I know but any help, advice, info or opinions would be really useful. Thanks

[airborne_artist]

AAC Rear Crew (as door gunner, systems operator or winch op) is not a direct-entry trade. It requires two years' service (normally in the AAC) and completion of Groundcrewman Class 1.

Soldier Career (http://www2.army.mod.uk/aac/recruiting/soldier_career.htm) refers.

Frankly, you'd be bored for the first two years. Great guys, but not really a graduate-level role.

[cbzz101]

When you say AAC Crewman are you talking about Observer or Door Gunner?

Either

[timex]

Have you thought of RN crewman? SAR, Junglie, Pinger?

AAC crewman are employed in the rear of the aircraft as Doorgunners and as Operators of the camera/Video kit, they do a great job but you cannot expect to spend your full career doing the job (unless you are very lucky).

However you can apply to go Pilot from the AAC once you become L/Cpl!:ok:

[cbzz101]

Too old for the RN as far as I can tell.

Preference would be winch op or door gunner, and I realise it's not direct entry which is one of the draw backs for the AAC.

[Jackonicko]

What's your degree? Do you have any special facility with languages?

If so, WSO (S) might be an idea?

[cbzz101]

Degree is in physiology and sports science. Too old for WSO and don't really fancy the linguist role - wanting something more active!

[Mr Point]

Jackonicko,

What's your degree? Do you have any special facility with languages?

If so, WSO (S) might be an idea?

You could work for the BBC with that level of factual accuracy! :}

Mr P

P.S Before you reply, I am just taking the p**s.

[Jackonicko]

AIDU,

Thanks for the correction. You're quite correct. The lads who used to wear the 'S' brevet.


Mr P,

I often do! And I post on PPRuNe with no attempt at research, checking, etc.


CBZZ,

So you want to be in the air, but not sitting down to work? You want physical challenge, not mental?

If you're g.ay, how about air steward? (Joke!) If not, then WSOp sounds just right. :ok::ok::ok:

[Judge Rembrandt]

Cbzz,
See pm.
Cheers
JR

PS AIDU - I had you in my ignore list but you have reappeared. I see you still contribute in a positive and constructive fashion. Will need to pop you back in the ignore box - you are the weakest etc etc
Bet your nickname is 'Thrush', eh?

[Jackonicko]

No harm done, no offence taken.

[Tiger_mate]

At age 28 you are not in a position to choose. I have heard from numerous sources that OASC will fail a 'youngster' in need of some maturity knowing that he/she is motivated and will return, especially if already serving in a ground trade. However a civilian over 25 regardless of how well educated has little chance of sucess at OASC second time around.

The jobs of AAC v RAF WSOp are continents apart and had you done sufficient research into your 'chosen career' you would know this already. When I first saw this thread (as your first post) my thoughts were, "Military troll seeks AAC v RAF bunfight" and I am as much amazed that this has not happened as I am amazed that AIDU has not given you direction to the sticky at the top of the page.

Notwithstanding what I have said, and if this is a genuine enquiry, you cannot go through life wondering what 'may have been'. Therefore my advice FWIW is for you to apply for OASC again, and at least if you get chopped you can put that aspect of your life into the archives. If doubt as to which service remains, remember that an application alone is not a commitment, and you can choose what to do with a positive outcome.

[cbzz101]

Hi, thanks for all the replies guys. This is a genuine enquiry and I have done a lot of research into both jobs but I've found getting info on the crewman role in the AAC a bit harder than WSOp which is why I posted here. I realise there is a big difference between the jobs but I see positives in them both which is why I'm having trouble deciding what to do.
Also does anybody know if I do try OASC again and fail, and then apply for AAC, would I be able to apply for pilot training if I get in (dependent on age restrictions and rank, etc) as I only get two shots at the aptitude tests at cranwell? Due to my age I know I didn't do the aptitude tests that were specifically for pilots but I don't know if some of the tests I did were generic for all roles. I have been told age for NCO pilot training in the army is 34 at the moment but varies with requirements, can anybody confirm this or put me right?

[airborne_artist]

Ring them up - they won't bite:

Soldier Career
SO3 Soldier Recruiting
HQ DAAvn
Middle Wallop
Stockbridge
Hants
SO20 8DY

Tel: 01264 784182

[parabellum]

Possibly better not to mention you have also spoken to the RAF? (If you 'phone the Army).

[loady wannabe]

Ha ha well we all know what ARMY stands for = Air Force Rejected me Yesterday!!! :}

I'm joking BTW

[Mister-T]

Ha ha well we all know what ARMY stands for = Air Force Rejected me Yesterday!!!

Would that not be AFRMY and not ARMY? :ugh:

[Wader2]

as I only get two shots at the aptitude tests at cranwell? Due to my age I know I didn't do the aptitude tests that were specifically for pilots but I don't know if some of the tests I did were generic for all roles.

The test is generic. I believe they now permit one test per year rather than just 2 tests.

However I am told that pilot aptitude increases from age 18 to 24 and thereafter declines; that is why the RAF places a limit of 24 on entry into training.

At 28 you are considerably older than many recruits, even perhaps a year or 2 older than many who leave the army having done 9 years. You need to look at the career length options. Do you anticipate being in the Army at age 50-51 and eligible for a full pension? Do you anticpate jumping ship and joining civil aviation (don't answer that)?

As an aside, the average age of the seamen on Ark Royal is 23.

I know of some AAC aircrewmen who try to transfer to the RAF when their army engagement ends, often at age 38. They are often judged too old and as there is no direct read across from AAC Aircrewman to WSOp they are not accepted.

As Tiger_Mate said, give it a go but don't think the two are interchangable.

[guidedweapons]

Regarding the RN as an Aircrewman you are not too old, A recent fella who applied but failed Grading was 33, You could either join the RN or RM in another trade, before requesting to transfer to Aircrewman, specialising in either Commando role or Anti Submarine Warfare role, both on Helicopters. There is a plan to allow direct entry in the near future for the ASW specialisation only.

Of the three services you may wish to consider this as an option. The training pipeline is much more swift with a great deal of emphasis placed on single pilot operations and Navigation, including DR.

PM me for more detail.

[WSOgirl]

Hi Tiger mate,

I'm intrigued to know more about the following statement:
"However a civilian over 25 regardless of how well educated has little chance of sucess at OASC second time around."

I'm in a similar position to the thread starter and was looking for more info and your post has got me wondering......

Also does anyone know the required aptitude for AAC pilot, ie, both the mimimum and what they realistically look for?

[Wader2]

WSOgirl, PM please.

[WSOgirl]

Done - PM sent.

[contactin]

Guided Weapons is correct. The published upper age for RN/RM Aircrewman is 32. However, there can be exceptions to this and under current Merlin manning levels an age waiver more than likely would be granted

The RN direct entry option has now been postponed to post the Merlin Upgrade programme. So it is still a sideways entry branch

Obviously with your age if you were considering RN/RM then you will need to act fairly quickly. Make an appointment with the AFCO and see what branch will get you in to the RN the quickest (Do not look at submarines because you will not get out quick enough)

If you want any more info feel free to PM me

Good luck

[c130 alm]

However a civilian over 25 regardless of how well educated has little chance of sucess at OASC second time around.

Thats rubbish. I know at least 2 people that fit that criteria who have joined.

[Tiger_mate]

2 people

I suppose that is just a little better odds than a lottery win then.

[cbzz101]

Hi, sorry for bringing back an old post but just wanted to thank all you guys who replied for the advice and info. I was very fortunate and got a chance to finish off my WSOp selection recently and knew it was definitely the way I wanted to go. Last week I found out I've been accepted and I'm really looking forward to getting started. NCAITC does sound a little daunting but I do like a challenge and will work hard for it!

Thanks again.

[Sand4Gold]

Congratulations. :D

[thedonnmeister]

Congrats mate! When do you start RTS??? I'm also going WSOp starting on the 15th April.

Jamie

[Could be the last?]

For info:

You will most likely stream WSOp (Cmn), as the EW side will close down for 12 mths; they say it is due to the MRA4 coming on line and the trg changes needed...........But we'll see.

Well done.:ok:

[thedonnmeister]

Where did you hear that? Because thats great news........:ok:

[TimC]

cbzz101: Congrats and best of luck!

Could be the last?: That's not great news, i was just looking into applying for WSOp (EW)! :hmm:

Anyone know who I should contact about a visit to the NCA school at Cranwell? I visited about 8 or 9 years ago and I imagine a few things have changed.