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SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 10:45
As an aspiring pilot, the RAF is an option for myself but i am worried that i don't have the motivation or 'want' to have the military way of life.

I couldn't think of anything better than to fly fast jets or even transport aircraft for the RAF and the fact that everything is paid for and there is a sense of secruity is a big part of it when considering career options. However i am not sure whether i want that 'way of life'. I know people say that if you dont want it 110%, then you will not get through selection/training.

I need some opinions on my attitude towards joining the military. People have said to me before that if i have ANY doubt about wanting to join, then dont bother but im after some more constructive advice. I cant think of anything better than flying fast jets on military ops but at the same time i would love to drive home from heathrow knowing that i can go fishing that evening or meet up with some people at the pub etc. I want to live knowing that if i want to leave my job i can, if i want to move house i can etc etc.

I apologise for the vagueness of this question and would like to hear any opinions or advice on my views.

Sentry Agitator
8th Sep 2008, 11:02
I need some opinions on my attitude towards joining the military.

Here you go - Don't! your attitude isn't what we are after sonny.

sunshine band
8th Sep 2008, 11:05
If you want to go home at night, join the airlines, but that won't always allow you to be at home. Try becoming an instructor at a flying club.

As you don't even know yourself if you have the motivation, you've no hope in getting in... May I suggust you look inwards rather than trying to get someone else to tell you what you already know yourself, but may be afraid to ask.

The RAF may be an option for you, but, if you're not motivated, you're not an option for us- sorry!


SB

airborne_artist
8th Sep 2008, 11:11
I want to live knowing that if i want to leave my job i can, if i want to move house i can etc etc.

In all reality you won't have this option in the RAF. But then again, you won't have it in an airline role either. In both cases you have to go where the company sends you. The difference is that in the RAF you won't have a £70,000 loan plus a type-rating bond to work off/re-pay.

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 11:14
Okay i have phrased this badly. Its not necessarily the motivation that im worried about, but more about the military way of life. I have the motivation to do anything i want to do and i doubt i would be considering a pilot job if i didnt. Its more of the military life and whether it suits me that i am concerned about. No use saying "find out yourself" because its very hard to actually know how you will feel after being in the RAF for 5 years.

I was in the air cadets, i have been on military bases and worked on them as well, but i still went home at the end of day.

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 11:21
I understand this point but you bring up the money issue. I fighting myself as to whether this is why i 'want' to join the RAF. I would love to get paid to fly, get paid to train, do excersises in the woods, go on a skiing course etc and of course, do not want a £70,000 loan for my trouble.

This is the issue i am trying to work out. After all my honest answer to "why would you like to join the RAF?" would be something like:

"Well, i get to fly fast planes with guns, travel the world and have a job that i am both proud of and extremly happy with, and whats more, you are paying for it all"

Wrong answer im assured.

airborne_artist
8th Sep 2008, 11:24
Airline - turn up, work your detail with guys/gals you might not have worked with before, go home, do whatever you do with whoever you like (if they are free, you'll do lots of earlies/lates and weekends).

Military - wake up in mess/tent/container where ever you happen to be that day. Start work with bunch of guys you know well, banter with, who you back up to the hilt, and you know they'll do the same for you. Finish work, perhaps. Where conditions allow - go on the piss/pull/beach with them. More banter. Carry/get dragged back to bed.

Spot the difference?

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 11:41
airbourne_artist, please dont ever transfer to the recuitment section of any military organisation. Going out on the piss/pull/beach is not my idea of job satisfaction. I like beer, i like girls and i like the beach but i fail to see the point in your mentioning of this.

airborne_artist
8th Sep 2008, 11:48
Going out on the piss/pull/beach is not my idea of job satisfaction. I like beer, i like girls and i like the beach but i fail to see the point in your mentioning of this.

Should I be :ugh: or :E at this?

Flt Lt Mac
8th Sep 2008, 11:50
Going out on the piss/pull/beach is not my idea of job satisfaction.

Gay....................................................

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 11:57
See, this is the type of people that i try not to get involved with yet they surround me in every walk of life.

How very very sad to persume that someone is gay or "un-cool" because they dont want to get drunk and pull girls they wouldnt even look twice at if sober.

I have this same problem with every single one of my mates who are all 18-21. "Oh here comes the loser that doesnt want to spend his paycheck on alcohol and throw it all up at the end of the night, after having to get carried home with some STI you got from a fugly girl in the bar"

You ******* sad acts.

timex
8th Sep 2008, 12:03
Sparksfly, I think you've answered your own question. Mil life is full of crap but also full of great times with great mates around you, you seem to be only interested in the RAF teaching you to fly and swanning around? As to the birds/booze thats a part of Mil life (along with banter)!

Forgot to mention, if you are only 18-21 then maybe you need to experience a few more things before you try to join.

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 12:11
Perhaps i have answered my own questions here. Just a shame that BA don't operate Typhoons i suppose.

Jackonicko
8th Sep 2008, 12:11
I quite admire your strength of character, in abstaining from going out on the lash and pulling, yourself. I'd question whether your intolerance of other people doing so would allow you to fit into ANY employment in which working with others plays a part, however, and I'd suggest that your attitudes smack of immaturity.

There are plenty of youngsters in the forces who don't get bladdered, remain faithful to girls back home, but who still socialise, still know how to have a laugh, and who don't view their mates who do drink and f*** with open contempt. The need to be able to fit in is vital. (And it would be with BA, too. No-one likes a co-pilot who doesn't want to go out and have a good time with the rest of the crew when you have three days stuck in Houston, say.

There's an old phrase to the effect that "you don't want to go to war with a w*nker on your wing." Would your mates view you as "one of them" or as an isolated, rather supercilious and stand-offish cove? Who is the sadder act, here? Who is the w*nker?

But as an 18 year old Farnborough school boy, perhaps you've never experienced enough stress for alcohol, going out with mates, etc to be a valuable form of unwinding.

Advice:
Grow up.
Develop some tolerance of others.
Lighten up and take that stick out of your @rse.

Flt Lt Mac
8th Sep 2008, 12:33
"Oh here comes the loser that doesnt want to spend his paycheck on alcohol and throw it all up at the end of the night, after having to get carried home with some STI you got from a fugly girl in the bar"


Still Gay........................................................

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 12:35
I have no problem with people doing this however when i become the target and the one that doesnt fit in, it starts to annoy me. I don't want to come across as a complete straight edge who doesnt want to have fun. I spent from the age of about 15 to the end of college going out, drunk 7 days a week having fun etc. You tell me to grow up, but this confuses me somewhat. I go out, have some drinks have some fun and i get told to grow up. I stop drinking and have fun being sober and now im getting told to grow up again :ugh:.

This isnt a dig at people socializing and having fun, i do it too! I suppose im just angry that the best answer to my military way of life question was "go to the beach, get drunk and get carried home".

I think maybe i need to experience this when im older (not after i have 'grown up' but in 5 years time. My best mate earns £800 a month and spends £700 of it on booze. We get on great and he respects the fact i don't want to go on the lash every night and i respect the fact that he enjoys doing it.

So who's the w*nker? Still me i guess, i think the rest of my flight training will be more successful if i was hungover for my lessons and putting them on the credit card instead....

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 12:38
11 posts and 2 of them calling me gay....:ok:



Just cause i don't say it, don't mean i aint thinking it.

Flt Lt Mac
8th Sep 2008, 12:39
i would love to drive home from heathrow knowing that i can go fishing that evening or meet up with some people at the pub etc. I want to live knowing that if i want to leave my job i can, if i want to move house i can etc etc

Go and get a bank loan and stop wasting our time. That is my advice on your views.

Still Gay though....................................

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 12:46
A bank loan for that stinger missile i just ordered for you?

I apologise for wasting your time, perhaps if i received some serious answers and advice this wouldn't have turned into an argument.

Flt Lt Mac
8th Sep 2008, 12:50
Okay let me put it another way so that you understand. My advice to you is to go and get a bank loan and become an Airline Pilot. You will be wasting your time applying to the RAF as you appear to have neither the character or determination required to fly a Typhoon. Now stop wasting ours and your time. Serious enough for you?



























Gay.................................................

althenick
8th Sep 2008, 12:53
I quite admire your strength of character, in abstaining from going out on the lash and pulling, yourself. I'd question whether your intolerance of other people doing so would allow you to fit into ANY employment in which working with others plays a part, however, and I'd suggest that your attitudes smack of immaturity.

There are plenty of youngsters in the forces who don't get bladdered, remain faithful to girls back home, but who still socialise, still know how to have a laugh, and who don't view their mates who do drink and f*** with open contempt. The need to be able to fit in is vital. (And it would be with BA, too. No-one likes a co-pilot who doesn't want to go out and have a good time with the rest of the crew when you have three days stuck in Houston, say.

There's an old phrase to the effect that "you don't want to go to war with a w*nker on your wing." Would your mates view you as "one of them" or as an isolated, rather supercilious and stand-offish cove? Who is the sadder act, here? Who is the w*nker?

But as an 18 year old Farnborough school boy, perhaps you've never experienced enough stress for alcohol, going out with mates, etc to be a valuable form of unwinding.

Advice:
Grow up.
Develop some tolerance of others.
Lighten up and take that stick out of your @rse.


Jacko - I never thought i'd say this but BZ on the post and agree with you 100%

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 13:07
Thanks for the advice Mac. Do you fly Typhoons because you seem quite immature...

Wader2
8th Sep 2008, 13:32
SFH,

Let's put this another way.

You are wet, tired, cold, hungry (wtch). Your hands are numb and the chip on your shoulder weights 300 lbs. You rely on 3 or 4 other girls and boys not to let go of the pine pole. You only have another 3 miles to carry it.

Do you want to do it?

No you f*****g don't but, at the end of the day you need to do it before you get a commission.

You want to learn to fly. You are wearing dpm, carrying a pack, have an SA80, you are wtch and you still have to smile, encourage and cajole during the leadership phase. Still want to do it?

i would love to drive home from heathrow knowing that i can go fishing that evening - nope. You will be drying kit, cleaning kit, bulling kit. You might grab a coke before pub -set. It will be dark when you get up a couple of hours later, or a few hours if you're lucky.

Or meet up with some people at the pub etc. See above. The difference is that you have no choice who these people are. They are the guys and gals you have been posted with.

I want to live knowing that if i want to leave my job. Simple, you can't. You might want to fly fast-jets; you might be trained to fly Nimrod - your preference, our choice.

i want to move house i can etc etc. At last something you can do or your own free will. Only thing is, there is no guarantee that you wil be posted near where your house is. Or that you won't be posted as soon as you have moved.

So, if you want a gay old time - get some motivation and go for it.

But personally, if I was you, I wouldn't bother.

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 13:37
Thank you for the reply. These are the answers to the questions i asked :)

RAF_Techie101
8th Sep 2008, 14:03
Oh I love motivational threads where the non-military (gay) type tries to tell the military ones what their job should be like and how they should behave...

Brightens my day up no end out here...:ok:

Wader2
8th Sep 2008, 14:03
SFH, for almost a year now you have been focussed on entry into civil aviation and say that you are earning enough for self-sponsorship. What has changed? Why are you now looking at the military option?

It really does look as if you should pack up your tent and look elsewhere. Sorry but the rest of the guys are right. You are in it for the duration or not.

minigundiplomat
8th Sep 2008, 14:06
Sparks

I respect your right to live your life anyway you see fit, and it is not for us to judge or disparrage just because your views do not conform to our own.

My advice for you would be that the military is not what you are looking for in any shape manner or form.

Good luck


MGD

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 14:24
Wader2 - Its just an option that has always been there. I have all the information from the RAF, its just a case of sending this application form off. I know i am setting myself up for a career in the commercial world but the more i learn about the RAF the more appealing it becomes. If we forget about the money aspect, its the lifestyles that im trying to work out. Either one is a whole hearted commitment with little or no chance to change, so i want to make sure i select the option that i feel most comfortable.

I have realised that i am asking the wrong type of questions here, because so far the verdict from everyone here is no because i dont want to get drunk in my time off. I think that is slightly unfair, but its also unfair of me to ask such questions and perhaps they would be better directed to the RAF careers advisors instead.

Raf Techie, i never said what your job should be like and how you should behave. If you read the original post thats what im asking :rolleyes: not telling.

MGD, maybe it isnt and thats what i am trying to find out. I spoke to someone today who contracted for the RAF and he said he found it a bit too Macho man and jarhead. Just one persons opinion of it but it all helps me build a picture.

goldcup
8th Sep 2008, 14:31
The RAF, macho man and jarhead!? Man, you really are gay!

Wader2
8th Sep 2008, 14:32
SFH,

Fair enough.

Life style - commercial pilot - go to work, fly, home or hotel and reverse. Days off.

Military - go to work, secondary duties, fly, cr^p, home or tent and reverse.

airborne_artist
8th Sep 2008, 14:36
Someone found the RAF macho and jarhead - ROTFLMAO - what would they have thought of a military organisation :E

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 14:54
That basically answers my questions. Thanks Wader.

As for the rest, im just passing on what i was told :D

c-bert
8th Sep 2008, 14:55
Someone found the RAF macho and jarhead - ROTFLMAO - what would they have thought of a military organisation

Well in fairness it is all beech volley ball and singing at women in bars...:E

cynicalint
8th Sep 2008, 15:00
Well in fairness it is all beech volley ball and singing at women in bars...


Must hurt hitting a solid wooden ball though:E

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 15:01
I wont bother posting in the military section again, 2 people out of 20 with actual useful answers and opinions, its like :ugh:

Im sure the banter is great fun on base but here while someone is asking for advice it really doesnt help.

:ok:

Airborne Aircrew
8th Sep 2008, 15:04
SFH:

its just a case of sending this application form offActually it's not just a case of sending out the application. Commitment to a military lifestyle is just that, a commitment. It's not just a means to an end, (flying aircraft), without having to spend your own precious cash. It's the tacit acceptance that, (far more than flying for an airline), you may die flying that aircraft and that you will be asked to go willingly into situations where people will actively try to kill you often with sophisticated weapons. It's the understanding that people will be trusting their lives to you and expecting you to be in a given place at a given time despite the fact that those nasty men are shooting things at you.

So far, in your initial post and your subsequent responses I have seen nothing that instill any confidence in me that you are likely to be able to manage that level of commitment or generate any significant level of trust from your peers.

Artist:

Poke off red nose.... :E

diginagain
8th Sep 2008, 15:06
It might have been worthwhile browsing the Mil board to get a feel for the level of responses previous posters on similar matters have received.

Best of luck with your chosen career.

Don't let the door bang you on the backside on your way out.

(That's banter)

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 15:22
Yeah i think that just about seals the deal. Whats the point dying for your country, especially this one. I will stick to the civi world where i fly for a company who pay my mortage and not worry about SAMs etc.

Over the last year my views have changed on the military aspect. At first i was keen to be part of it but i think after thinking about it for a while its just not for me. World war I & II had heros facing certain death to save the country from invasion, now our boys are dying in someone elses' war.

Don't ask what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.

Jackonicko
8th Sep 2008, 15:24
Additional:

You need to

1) Grow up.
2) Develop some tolerance of others.
3) Lighten up and take that stick out of your @rse.
4) Show your betters some respect. Many of those on Military Aircrew are exactly what it says on the tin. They have been and done it, and deserve your respectm and it's a shame that this needs pointing out to you. You are not their equal, nor anything close, you cheeky young whipper snapper.

And you would not stand an earthly of being selected, anyway. You lack maturity, commitment, dedication and knowledge, and you lack the humility and people skills to be of any interest to the RAF. And unless you buy your way into a cockpit, then I'd predict that you're f*cked when it comes to the airlines too.

airborne_artist
8th Sep 2008, 15:28
its just a case of sending this application form off Matthew 22:14 - Many are called but few are chosen - if you think it's a case send off the form and straight to Cranwell to start training, then it's really not for you.

Listen to Jacko - this forum is unlike almost any other on Pprune, with the possible exception of JB. In between the lines it's all true, and if you can't take the way it's delivered, then you need to think long and hard.

johnfairr
8th Sep 2008, 15:33
Let's try and add a bit of realism here. My father flew Spitfires in WWII, became an ace, was shot down and carried on with his previous peace-time career after the war.

My brother went to Cranwell straight from school, flew Hunters and F-4s, left as a 3*.

I joined the RAF as a Nav flew F-4s, but wasn't quite good enough to sustain a career.

A few years ago, my then 17 year-old son, who had been mad keen on the RAF, suddenly said, "Dad, would you mind if I didn't join the Air Force?" I said, "No, of course not, you must do want think best, but at least tell me why"

"Well, if I join the RAF and I fly fast jets, it seems likely that I'll have to kill somebody someday, and I'm not sure I could handle that". His reply was heartfelt and sincere and I only thank God that he realised it before embarking on an utlimately doomed career.

Face facts, Sparks, life is not swanning around in a swanky mean-machine, armed to the teeth and posing at air shows, Red Flag and any bar big enough for your ego. It is a matter of life and death and with your attitude, as other posters have put more succinctly, I doubt the RAF would want you, no matter how determined you might be. The people at Cranwell have seen it all before.

Go find an alternative.

Best of luck

jf

RAF_Techie101
8th Sep 2008, 15:39
Additional:

You need to

1) Grow up.
2) Develop some tolerance of others.
3) Lighten up and take that stick out of your @rse.
4) Show your betters some respect. Many of those on Military Aircrew are exactly what it says on the tin. They have been and done it, and deserve your respectm and it's a shame that this needs pointing out to you. You are not their equal, nor anything close, you cheeky young whipper snapper.

And you would not stand an earthly of being selected, anyway. You lack maturity, commitment, dedication and knowledge, and you lack the humility and people skills to be of any interest to the RAF. And unless you buy your way into a cockpit, then I'd predict that you're f*cked when it comes to the airlines too.

And this from the man who, as a reporter, is usually on the recieving end of such abuse...

Cheers for brightening up my day dude, and for what it's worth a couldn't agree with you more. I also think he should try being groundcrew first - best way to become a pilot if you ask me, I just wish I had 60 grand to do it...

SparksFlyHigh
8th Sep 2008, 15:58
"Just a case of sending the application off" - Is the stage i was at when thinking of joining the RAF, not how 'easy' i thought it would be, not saying they would read it, not saying i would pass all of the tests, not saying i would walk straight into cranwell. Again, another misunderstanding.

Please Please PLEASE can we stop with whether or not the RAF would want me. Who are you to say whether i would get in if i wanted to, based on one thread on the internet. You don't know anything about me, not my qualifications, not my aptitude, not my physical abilities. I obviously should have uploaded my cv with this thread because everyone is jumping to conclusions.


"Additional:

You need to

1) Grow up.
2) Develop some tolerance of others.
3) Lighten up and take that stick out of your @rse.
4) Show your betters some respect. Many of those on Military Aircrew are exactly what it says on the tin. They have been and done it, and deserve your respectm and it's a shame that this needs pointing out to you. You are not their equal, nor anything close, you cheeky young whipper snapper.

And you would not stand an earthly of being selected, anyway. You lack maturity, commitment, dedication and knowledge, and you lack the humility and people skills to be of any interest to the RAF. And unless you buy your way into a cockpit, then I'd predict that you're f*cked when it comes to the airlines too. "

You think i have a poor tolerance of others? Well in this thread, i do and so would you if you asked for advice and just got insulted by the vast majority.

I have respect for the people who i aquire knowledge from, and i respect those who can give me guidance and advice, however, i am equal along with everyone else in the world. You are not a higher being if you are in the RAF, you are not superior to me. Again, i have respect for people in the RAF, just like i have respect for anyone else but your coment is completly out of line and absurd!

Solid Rust Twotter
8th Sep 2008, 16:01
These RAF types are just giving you a hard time, Sparky. I reckon you'd get a far better answer on www.arrse.co.uk if you ask them. I think the NAAFI Bar is probably the best place to post your question.

johnfairr
8th Sep 2008, 16:04
Naughty, Naughty, Rusty! Who let you out of the Trabb??

jf

diginagain
8th Sep 2008, 16:10
Please, God, no!

RAF_Techie101
8th Sep 2008, 16:13
And as the great Peter Griffin once said - "Anyone who doesn't want to go to war, is gay..."

Pontius Navigator
8th Sep 2008, 16:14
SFH,

Sorry FH but you are plain wrong Who are you to say whether i would get in if i wanted to, based on one thread on the internet. You don't know anything about me, not my qualifications, not my aptitude, not my physical abilities.

Almost everyone here who has posted has been through the process. Some here have been very close to the process. May I assure you that you would spend 4 days at OASC to allow us to detail exactly why you are unsuitable.

Sorry but it true. An experienced instructor or selector can make an extremely accurate judgement in a few minutes. It might seem unfair. It might be seen as judging by appearances. When people fail it might seem as if we are working to fulfill a prophecy. We are not.

At a meet and greet, after one hour, Mrs PN and I decided you would pass and who would fail an 18 month course. We were 95% correct, not just on pass/fail but the order of the failures and passes.

You have been assessed for far longer than one hour. You have now got the opinion of some very erudite and enthusiastic people. Believe them and do what you said you would do. Look elsewhere.

Solid Rust Twotter
8th Sep 2008, 16:14
It's a fair cop, Mr Fairr....:E

Jackonicko
8th Sep 2008, 22:27
You need to chill and re-read this thread.

You've experienced some mildly harsh banter, and have received some friendly and well meant (if unwelcome) advice. Whatever path you choose, you might want to consider why it is that you have provoked the reaction that you have, and perhaps think about how you might generate a more positive response.

Most of those posting here have done far more than I have - I've merely passed OASC aptitude tests, done UAS, done OASC again, passed and been given a Cranwell entry date before suffering a medical problem that put paid to my chosen career option, and because I didn't want to join in a ground branch I pursued journalism, and fly for fun.

But even with my limited experience, I can tell that you lack the maturity and humility to get through IOT (even if you passed selection), and nothing in what you've posted makes me think that you could convince an OASC board (they are very sharp cookies) that you had the required dedication and commitment.

Your first post was VERY illuminating, and not only because it showed your inability to use capitals or punctuate properly.

"i would love to drive home from heathrow knowing that i can go fishing that evening or meet up with some people at the pub etc. I want to live knowing that if i want to leave my job i can, if i want to move house i can etc etc."

Your reaction to AA's post (read into it and it's an explanation of the nature of military cameraderie, not a simple paean to drinking and high jinks) was equally telling.

Your comment that it was "a shame that BA don't operate Typhoons i suppose" was another illustration of the nature of your commitment, while I hope that "Yeah i think that just about seals the deal. Whats the point dying for your country, especially this one. I will stick to the civi world where i fly for a company who pay my mortage and not worry about SAMs etc.

Over the last year my views have changed on the military aspect. At first i was keen to be part of it but i think after thinking about it for a while its just not for me. World war I & II had heros facing certain death to save the country from invasion, now our boys are dying in someone elses' war.

Don't ask what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you.. was an attempt at banter. If you think that, then why are you even considering an application.

When you started answering back at #17 (you're a callow newbie on a professional pilot's bulletin board - in this context you are not their equal) made me suspect that you would be unable to take or exercise discipline or leadership. Your testy "I'm sure the banter is great fun on base but here while someone is asking for advice it really doesnt help" demonstrated to me that your social antennae need some adjustment - you're a guest here, and you have provoked every bit of banter you've received.

Your qualifications don't matter. Your aptitude doesn't matter. Your physical characteristics don't matter if you're not the 'balanced extrovert' that OASC is after, and if the board officers don't think you'd be able to fit in, or that you would be the "w*nker on someone's wing."

Like MiniGun Diplomat, I'd want to wish you luck, and hope against hope that this interlude on PPRuNe will provide you with a useful life lesson.

And I'd echo MGD's advice that "the military is not what you are looking for in any shape manner or form."

AllTrimDoubt
8th Sep 2008, 22:33
Who are you to say whether i would get in if i wanted to, based on one thread on the internet.

You'd be surprised sonny.

And no, based on what I've read, you wouldn't get in. Trust me...!:E:E:E

Airborne Aircrew
8th Sep 2008, 22:53
Jacko has said it superbly... Hat's off to you Jacko... But I'll add the following because I believe it to be quite telling:-

i am equal along with everyone else in the worldThat is an utterly erroneous assumption on your part. Worse than being simply erroneous it assumes that any individual is capable of exactly the same results in any test or trial as any other individual. Plainly, that is an incorrect assumption because, were it to be true, (at my peak - which, in itself, is telling), I would have been competing in the 1982 Olympics... But I wasn't "equal" enough to those other marathon runners to compete.

Equality is a myth promulgated by the weak and inept to try to ameliorate their inadequacies. Simple as that. In the end they are still weak and inept.

Samuel
8th Sep 2008, 23:21
You can complain as much as you like about the response you have seen here, but the fact remains that the RAF know a thing or two about selection of the people who want to fly. The fact that they know more than you for example, is why so many don't get to be one of that elite and hugely talented bunch.

I don't care about your personal background, not at all, and I don't give a fat rat's arse whether you bat for the B side, but I will tell you that, based on the attitude shown here, the RAF won't want you. You won't get past first base, and you most certainly won't make selection. You have none of the attributes required. As an aside, I would hate to think you were flying anything I was a passenger in!

tutgby
8th Sep 2008, 23:28
What a thoroughly entertaining thread!
Best of luck for the future, wouldn't say that you're what the RAF is looking for but that's my own humble opinion! :E

By the by, learn to take banter in any shape or form, you look much more like an a***hole if you complain about it! :O

Wiley
9th Sep 2008, 00:34
Sparky, on my pilot's course, we had a bloke who was a lot like you (or should I say, "to judge from the unfortunate comments you've made here, you seem to be a lot like him"). He arrived on course with a full commercial pilot's licence, which seemed amazing to the rest of us at the time, and in the first few days of the course, when we were all sussing each other out, that gave him and his (many) opinions huge 'street cred'.

He never saw an aeroplane, at least in the Services. Never got near one. I think he was the very first to be 'let go' by the System - and as far as the rest of us on course with him were concerned, the System took far longer reaching that conclusion than was necessary. I suspect he only got onto the course because of his considerable flying experience when someone decided to overlook what must have been the many red flags that must have been raised by the rest of his profile.

The service life isn't for everyone. You may be very well suited for any number of career paths and you may prove to be extraordinarily successful in quite a few of them. (For example, merchant banking comes immediately to mind. ...or airline management.:):):)[Inside joke - just kidding.]) However, from your comments here, I think you've saved youself a few wasted hours filling in complicated application forms, and it would seem that quite a few others who have jumped through similar hoops to the ones I did agree with me.

L1011GE
9th Sep 2008, 03:39
Is this thread a wind up?

and yes he sounds GAY........I can say that now I am outside!!

Seymour Belvoir
9th Sep 2008, 05:27
I think SFH has gone off to sulk.







Jacko...fantstic.

GlassCollector
9th Sep 2008, 08:18
Please take this in the light-hearted nature that it is intended -

"At a meet and greet, after one hour, Mrs PN and I decided you would pass and who would fail an 18 month course. We were 95% correct, not just on pass/fail but the order of the failures and passes."

I am surprised the figure isn't 100%.

(Just the way I read it first time!)

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 09:08
Firstly I would like to apologize. I seem to have provoked a reaction existentially and the whole thread has revolved around that and the ensuing arguments.

I feel that I have been treated unfairly in some respects in regards to some of the insulting replies. When I say 'insulting replies', I refer to the ones that have no intention of helping or answering any form of question or giving any manner of constructive criticism. However, I respect the people who know more than me about this subject and I wouldn't have asked here if I didn't.

I fully understand that although perhaps harshly put forward, there is advice to be taken from this thread, and I HAVE taken it. I would like to remind people however that a lot of what I have been scrutinized on in this thread, relates to my somewhat angry and confused replies/defence. I feel that this thread does not accurately portray my attitudes due to the aforementioned reasons but I am in no way out to prove anything to the people on here.

I would like to thank the useful comments and personal messages I have received, they have helped to answer the questions I set out originally. I am impressed that a lot of people have stuck together here and I think that shows what the RAF is really about, great comradeship. Perhaps I am a bit behind on the banter and inside jokes, but please bear with me. This thread was never to ask for opinions on whether or not I would pass OASC, IOT or any other form of training or selection.

Before anyone meticulously analyses this post and picks me up on my grammar, spelling or general command of the English language, I apologize as in my previous posts I was writing on a post-it note which appeared to have been using my full mental capacity. (Thank you for reminding me that Heathrow is a proper noun and thus should be capitalized. That was definitely not a mistake and for people to even bother to mention it in a public forum on the internet, shows that the intention of their post may not be to help and advise the thread starter).

I am still undecided about joining the RAF and I understand that in some cases that means I shouldn't. However I still endeavour to find out even more than I already have about the RAF as well as myself, because at the end of the day, that is what really matters when considering such a career path.

SFH

Flap62
9th Sep 2008, 09:19
Blimey!!

Where is the real SFH and what have you done with him!

From my perspective (which is becoming rapidly more distant), while the flying cannot be compared to anything else, the times that I think I will remember with the greatest clarity in years to come will have happened on the ground. Whether that was bantering round a coffee bar, in a mess bar or wherever it's the relationships and cameraderie that stays clearest in the mind. If you are of the type who would rather get away from it at the end of a day then the military probably isn't for you.

topcat68
9th Sep 2008, 09:37
'I am still undecided about joining the RAF'

I still think you are getting confused with 'joining' and APPLYING to join the RAF.:ugh:

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 09:42
:D:D:D

I am still undecided about trying to join the RAF.

Thanks for the advice. :ugh:

mr ripley
9th Sep 2008, 09:52
SFH
I admire your honesty about your concerns.

Flying both mil and civil involves getting on with people (sometimes who you would not rather be with) in a variety of circumstances.

There are similarities and differences in the 'way of life' of both careers.

In the military on ops (and the frequency of ops depends on the aircraft type) you are working hard as a team under trying circumstances and the buzz is immence. At home base the work load is variable but no matter what you do and where you go you are attached by an invisible bungey cord to base. How much you throw yourself in to sqn life and mess life can be up to you. However I never saw any point in being in the RAF without a social involvement (as it paid dividends when deployed).

In my airline I go away more often than I did in the military, but for shorter periods and come home when I should. We always go out, be it just for a quiet drink or more. Sometimes its 2 people, sometimes its 15 and I have had some cracking times. The flying is mostly routine and relaxed but you have to be able to get on with people. Most of the time I am flying with people I have never met before. I can leave the job behind when I leave Heathrow and have time to do what I want in my spare time. (although I prefer aerobatics to fishing).

Both jobs are about how you get on with people. You certainly have to be motivated to end up on the sqn or on line. However the military is a way of life shared with people who mostly have the same values and is a lot more fun.

Tourist
9th Sep 2008, 09:57
SFH.

Be honest, your mum wrote the apologetic post didn't she?

Dan Winterland
9th Sep 2008, 10:04
Speaking as someone who spent 17 years as a RAF pilot and since 7 years as an airline pilot, I would suggest that you are suited to neither from what I have read here. You may have the means to pay your course and self sponsored type rating, but I would suggest to you that the motivation and determination for that route is not too different from the military. And when you are in a position where you have three bars on your shoulder, you've paid off your training debts and your starting to feel satisfied that you have acheived your goal, how much freedom do you think you will have?

As a junior F/O in an airline, you will be based where the work is, you will work weekends, you will work late into the evenings, you will do nightstops, you will do temporary basings and you will have to sell up and move house when you change employers/base/get a command/get made redundant.

The generally acknowledged personality type who is best suited to be a pilot is the stable extrovert. I don't see much difference between my airline colleagues and my ex military mates. I get the impression you are not the type.

c130jbloke
9th Sep 2008, 10:06
Sparky:

I feel that I have been treated unfairly in some respects in regards to some of the insulting replies.

That's cos you put up gay posts.

But on a serious note, you have come across as a bit of gimp and have posted a fecking silly qiestion ref your desire to join the RAF. So if you think that you have been hard done by then:

1. You probably have been - but man up and get over it.
2. You probably have been - but make up your own mind :=
3. You probably have been - and if it's a problem then go find a local council to work for and have a winge to their anti banter welfare officer. Or just have a nice cup of tea instead.

C130JB:}

Wader2
9th Sep 2008, 10:13
To pick up on Mr Ripley's post How much you throw yourself in to sqn life and mess life can be up to you. However I never saw any point in being in the RAF without a social involvement (as it paid dividends when deployed).

In days gone by when the VC10 was part of the shiney fleet, and as near as dammit flying like a civilian airliner, some crew members used to commute long distances to work, fly, and return home. Ultimately this counted against them.

I knew one ex-VC10 Sqn Ldr (that's an in-joke BTW) who was posted after his two tours and demoted because he lived with his wife, near her work, some 150 miles away. I knew another who, I think, was denied a captaincy and left the fleet for the same reasons.

In the Services 'company-men' are at work or on immediate call 24/7. Besides their primary job, whatever it is, they will also be involved in organisation of sports or social events or other ancilliary duties, activities and duties that would not be found in commercial aviation. To be honest, quite a few folk see the job of IIC Wives' Club as a PITA but a necessary evil in the Service family.

People who just turn up for duty and disappear home, without the social element, are generally seen as not pulling their weight. This was quite clear during the TV series, was it Fighter Pilot?, where the Chief of Air Staff was apopolectic when the 'star' said it was 9-5.

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 10:13
Dan Winterland:

Thank you for the comparison between military and commercial life. This was actually on my mind for exactly the reasons you mentioned, however i think that for the worlds best job, i can accept that and adapt accordingly. I do not have the money to self fund myself, but i am working towards it on my own back. (not sure why someone thought i won the lottery).


C130Jbloke:

I'll go for the cup of tea i think.


Tourist:

She's dead.

AIDU
9th Sep 2008, 10:18
Oh no you mentioned the VC10. Cue Beagle. At least nobody has mentioned the Chinook, Vulcan or Red Arrows yet.:cool:

Flap62
9th Sep 2008, 10:19
SFH,

You know, I think you might just be getting the hang of this!!

c130jbloke
9th Sep 2008, 10:30
I'll go for the cup of tea i think.

Yeaaaahhhhh !! That's the way son - up and at 'em :ok:


It's still a gay thread through. But with AIDOO just coming in, I'm sure we will get real fireworks soon.

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 10:41
I will put you down as my reference then :}

AIDU
9th Sep 2008, 10:53
Sparks what type of forklift do you drive?

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 10:57
Thats a bit dated now, but i used to drive counter balance fork lifts.

I have a new job now, helping you military boys out somewhat. Anyone in the Harrier maintanence role?

AIDU
9th Sep 2008, 10:59
Explain..............................................

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 11:02
Bae Systems.

RAF_Techie101
9th Sep 2008, 11:09
Ahh - the Sea Harrier...



Now that was a great thread...

AllTrimDoubt
9th Sep 2008, 11:23
My guess is it's the same old SFH, but today he's sober!

And the banter's improving. :D

(Still chop you though!) :E

Wader2
9th Sep 2008, 11:45
Bae Systems.


Aggh,

Second cue for BEags and the Bungling Baron of BWoS stories.

Wessex Boy
9th Sep 2008, 11:50
I was once an enthusiastic teenager, got an RAF Flying Scholarship at 17, went back to Biggin Hill teh following year and expected to be welcomed in and handed the keys to a Tonka....but wasn't.

I desperately wanted to fly for a living so decided (after narrowly missing British Airways ab initio selection in '87) to go for NCO aircrew, do a tour and then re-apply for Pilot.

I did Swinderby easily, struggled a bit with AAITC (pine poles, Bl**dy pine poles) but got through, and then settled into Loady ground school. At this point my immaturity started to get the better of me and I came across to some of my peers as an arrogant tw*t, made it very clear that I was only doing NCA as a route to pilot (I was somewhat politcially unaware...), and developed my social skills (able to wake-up in a Biffa Bin with someone else's bike)

Passed ground school and got streamed rotary and headed off to Shawbury, this is where I really p*ssed people off...the instructors were (in the main, ahem) a good bunch of very experienced guys at the pinnacle of their careers, what they didn't appreciate was a 19 year old PPL telling them that this was only a stepping stone to greater things. The Pilots didn't appreciate a mere trainee talking baggage thinking he was good enough to join their ranks.

My scores for every flight were average or higher, I scored the very first B+ for Nav, but 2 days before my FHT I was called in front of the Crewman Leader and told that even if I passed, I would not pass the course, my 'Personal Qualities' were not sufficiently developed for me to assimilate into a front-line Squadron, especially as I had been ear-marked for 72.

My confidence was shot, I scored the first ever E- on my test, it was awful. I was back-squadded and given the most evil little instructor they had, I had to start the course again and re-earn all my solo ratings. It was hell, of course in the end I was summoned to the Crewman Leader's office and he had his shiny silver axe lying on his desk....

I have been in the exciting world of IT for 19 years:bored:, and have just re-gained my PPL after a 17 year gap, but it was my maturity and attitude in the squadron crewroom that did for my flying career, not my ability or capability in the air.


Oh yeah, I'm probably still a tw*t, but a more mature tw*t:ok:

johnfairr
9th Sep 2008, 14:09
Can't help feeling that the difference between post #59 and post #68 is that they were written by different people. Why the sudden reversion to "i", after he had cracked the capitalisation of it in #59? English was pretty good, grammar very acceptable from a supposedly 18 year-old.

Or am I being totally fooled by his reasoned arguements? Hell of a sea-change in a matter of hours. Perhaps it was a fishing trip/wind-up from the boarding officers at Cranwell, or whatever they're called now.

jf

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 14:56
Yeah you're right i pay a company to write some of my posts.

My grammar improves when i want it to. This is an internet forum, i am at work with stuff to do, i don't care for proof reading my posts most of the time and when i do take a moment to write a post, i may press shift ocasionally and the result is I instead of i.

What the f*uck difference does it really make? If you spelt bread wrong on your shopping list would you re-write the list?

Seriously, what a complete load of bullsh*t.

I apologize for the 'grammar pretty good for a supposedly 18 year-old'. I didn't even take English any further than GCSE :8

P.S i will edit this post and capitalize the 'i's' later, or maybe pay that company to re-write this whole post so that it meets the standards of the internet.

goldcup
9th Sep 2008, 15:32
You sound like just the sort of guy I'd LOVE to be on a Squadron with/sit next to on a flight deck. I foresee a wonderful career ahead of you in aviation regardless of which path you choose. You obviously take criticism well, can engage in healthy banter and are eloquent and educated enough to construct a well-reasoned and compelling case.

Or maybe not. Perhaps the world of forklift truck driving would miss you too much.

johnfairr
9th Sep 2008, 15:32
One of the qualities looked for in any potential officer candidate is, funnily enough, quality. Whether it be in dress, speech, attitude, demeanour or written communications, where quality means getting it right first time. If you are playing around with multi-million pound bits of kit, like aircraft, then that quality is paramount.

Your posts would appear to written, by your own admission, in a lazy, couldn't really care, mode. I refer to the paragraph above.

jf

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 15:37
So having written posts in a 'lazy, couldn't really care, mode' means that if i am in control of an aircraft, i am lazy and don't really care? And because i write i instead of I on the internet, that means i would do it on a C.V or application form?

Come on John, let's be realistic here.

topcat68
9th Sep 2008, 15:40
You really are coming across as a bit of a Knob,having said that,I don't think you see that as a problem,do you?:mad::mad:

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 15:52
No, i don't see me comming across as a 'knob'. I ask for advice on here, i get more insults than help. I re-read, realise a lot of it is banter, write to apologise and now it's happening all again.

What chance do I have. I didn't study English at Oxford, neither did a lot of pilots, i have explained that i don't have time for proof reading any posts on the internet, yet people are still picking out f*cking mistakes as if it matters!

People really don't want to be on a flight deck with me? Well i wouldn't want to be on a flight deck with anyone that feels it is necessary to insult me if i ask a question.

No-one on here knows anything about me, my qualifications, abilities etc yet still see fit to "predict" and "suggest" that i am a complete failure and will never get a job.

It doesn't seem to matter what i write, i will still be put down. Earlier i was told to grow up because i DIDN'T go out drinking every night. I have been called gay, i have been called a knob as well as the other personal attacks that have been issued. If i apologise for taking things too seriously i am bombarded with criticism, if i stand up for myself, the same happens.

Romeo Oscar Golf
9th Sep 2008, 15:54
Super thread, almost takes me back to crew room days!
SFH......please apply and let us know how it goes.
For reference, I applied in the 60's 'cos the advert said I could earn more as a fighter pilot in the RAF than I could earn as an insurance surveyor in the City. This was true, however I didn't know one end of an aeroplane from t'other, and had no military background or interests. To everybodies surprise I was accepted, and never looked back for 19 years. Mind you, despite flying as a civilian, post RAF, on the same military aircraft for several years, there are some who say that I still don't know one end of a jet from the other, nor do I pretend to understand the military mind, but if you've "got it" there is no better way of life.:cool:

Airborne Aircrew
9th Sep 2008, 15:55
So having written posts in a 'lazy, couldn't really care, mode' means that if i am in control of an aircraft, i am lazy and don't really care? And because i write i instead of I on the internet, that means i would do it on a C.V or application form?It's not that you know the difference, it's that you chose not to discipline yourself to do the right thing. Remember, the truest test of character is what you do when no-one is looking. ie: When it really doesn't matter - just like writing on the internet - it really doesn't matter - but it doesn't hurt to do it correctly either. Typos are typos and the grammar and speeling police are tossers, (see what I did there... :} )

The problem is the attitude sneaks up on you and you start doing the wrong thing when you meant to do the right thing. I had someone apply for employment with me once who spelled his last name incorrectly... :sad: Laugh, I nearly died...

How do I know he had misspelled his name? It was spelled one way on his CV and another way on the cover letter. Needless to say, he didn't get an interview. That should be a lesson to you: Don't believe that an, apparently, inconsequential and obscure error will not be noticed. Attention to detail is important in my work - I practice it and expect my employees to practice it too.

airborne_artist
9th Sep 2008, 15:56
i have explained that i don't have time for proof reading any posts on the internet

Some might think this displays any or all of:

Sloppiness, arrogance, lack of real commitment, or just being plain lazy. If you use Firefox it does it for you, even. How hard is that?

Dry your eyes, Princess. Here's your first ride:

http://www.lifelounge.com/resources/IMGTHUMB/My-little-pony.jpg

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 16:06
Or maybe i really don't have time for it? I jump on the computer in between jobs at work and quickly type out a post before continuing with what i was doing. This means that i am a complete tw*t and i will never get a flying job. :ok:

If you had 1 minute to do the pre-flight inspection, pre-start and after start checks, im sure you would make a mistake but maybe you could take your time with all the checks and have just done the best pre-flights ever.

Airborne Aircrew
9th Sep 2008, 16:11
If you had 1 minute to do the pre-flight inspection, pre-start and after start checks, im sure you would make a mistake but maybe you could take your time with all the checks and have just done the best pre-flights ever.I'm neither the grammar nor the spelling police - but that makes no sense whatsoever. Sorry, you've finally made it into the ranks of Silly Fish... More commonly known as Dumb Bass...

Artist:

You owe me a keyboard... Was that the 9 year old in you? :E

NickB
9th Sep 2008, 16:15
This is great stuff, (LOL), truely great.

Really brightened up this dull September day! :ok:

airborne_artist
9th Sep 2008, 16:16
If you had 1 minute to do the pre-flight inspection, pre-start and after start checks, im sure you would make a mistake but maybe you could take your time with all the checks and have just done the best pre-flights ever.

Er, no. You really don't have the first idea, do you? :ugh:

AA, sorry about the keyboard :E

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 16:17
I am making a comparison. I dont have time to proof read and apply the English Language to my full ability. So what? Shall i tell my boss?

"Erm, excuse me but i have been receiving a lot of irrelevant complaints about my spelling and grammar so i will need to have a longer lunch break in future. Im sure you understand....oh what was that? You are too busy at the moment? I don't understand? You must make time to listen to me because it is far more important."

Apparently on these forums you are not allowed to do anything quickly and you must take your time to write posts and then have them checked by third part companies to ensure that there is absolutly no mistakes.

Arty Fufkin
9th Sep 2008, 16:21
Sounds like a nutter to me.

Pontius Navigator
9th Sep 2008, 16:33
I am making a comparison. I dont have time to proof read and apply the English Language to my full ability. So what? Shall i tell my boss?

Er no, what you actually mean is I can't type. Typing, capitalisation and punctuation are life skills, just like your 20 times tables. What you should tell your boss is that you are not capable of fast, accurate work and you need more time and less work.

In aviation less work is never an option. Until the solar system is readjusted more time is also limiting at about 24 hours per day.

SFH your responses and replies are so good that the whole thread should be moved to the wanabee sticky. Two of the lessons drummed into me in initial training were plan ahead and attention to detail.

My father also taught me that if a job is worth doing it is worth doing well. Later I learnt from experience that there are two ways to do a job, the quick and the proper. The difference is that you always have to do the proper job even if you did it the quick way first.

In your case, if you have insufficient time to do the job in a minute, wait until you have time to do it properly. Attention to detail saves lives, taking short cuts kills people. Taking short cuts means flying with pins in - bomb pins, seat pins, undercarriage pins - we all do it but we also learn from it and allow sufficient time to do it properly. If we come under pressure then we recognise this and s l o w down to eliminate errors.

Final advice? Change your nickname and repost in the sticky.

minigundiplomat
9th Sep 2008, 16:37
Proper fruitcakery. This is great!

SFH - I gave you the benefit of the doubt to begin with, but you are either a wind up merchant, or T.A.P.S.

My final words of advice to you would be to stop talking when it is obvious you don't know what it is your talking about.

If I was you, I'd cut your losses and go back to whatever it is youve been doing for the other 3 days of your adult life.

Airborne Aircrew
9th Sep 2008, 16:47
My father also taught me that if a job is worth doing it is worth doing well.

Brother????? :eek:

Funny though... It was my father's favorite phrase - amongst many...

Arty Fufkin
9th Sep 2008, 16:56
My Father's favourite phrase was

"Fight Fire With Fire!!"

That's why he lost his job with the fire brigade.

BlackIsle
9th Sep 2008, 17:01
SFH - how much more input from anybody on here do you need? You have not demonstrated ANYTHING LIKE the requisite attributes or attitudes to begin to think about taking your questionable interest in a military career (flying or otherwise) any further! Forget it , write it off, think again - hard, about exactly how you intend to fit in anywhere.

Roland Pulfrew
9th Sep 2008, 17:37
SFH

Please could you explain just how much longer it takes to type I as opposed to i ? Does it actually take any longer at all?

I didn't do English beyond O-level either, fortunately "when I were a lad" we didn't have the Internet and O-level gave you a good grounding in the correct use of the English language. Just because certain professors say that we should allow txt spk to enter everyday usage doesn't make them correct.

This is a forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground in our world it pays to strive for accuracy, in almost everything we do. If you want to join, you have to play by our rules. You do yourself a disservice in continuing to use i instead of I. As many have pointed out already, it is either a sign of laziness or arrogance; either that or you are a great wind-up merchant on a very successful fishing trip!!

RAF_Techie101
9th Sep 2008, 17:47
I didn't even take English any further than GCSE


Well that's a non starter then - A levels are needed for a Commission, at least maths and English...




And on a related note, my father always told me to walk a mile in someone's shows before I judged them.

















That way, when you do judge them, you're a mile away, and you have their shoes...:E

KeepItTidy
9th Sep 2008, 17:48
Well if you want to know about motivation issues within the RAF I have a good one, currently OOA and they have removed the bar from us because some idiot screwed up yet all have to be punished. At this present time we are all on a downer as the powers above like to play god and think they have control when in reality all they have done is screwed over people made them annoyed and made the work effort go from highly over productive to like do not care nothing gets done.

Thats motivation for you ,most of the time you have it and work it , then one day it gets ripped from you and takes a while to build up again.

Hope this helps

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 17:50
If you are going to criticise my posts, please make sure that yours' are correct first :)

SparksFlyHigh
9th Sep 2008, 17:53
KeepItTidy,

That was a bit on topic wasnt it? I mean i asked for advice but what i wanted was 6 pages of spelling police reports.

goudie
9th Sep 2008, 18:06
Having read through this thread I'm not entirely sure, who is taking who, for a ride

tykepilot
9th Sep 2008, 18:13
SFH

There are three ways to do a job:

The right way, the wrong way, and any f****** way!

And your posts are??

Jumping_Jack
9th Sep 2008, 18:23
I am at a loss as to why so many folk here are wasting so much of their lives responding to this guy.....Jeez by now i :E would have thought most would have moved onto a rather more worthwhile thread. Uh oh, now I'm wasting my life! :{

Tee hee

J_J

PPRuNe Pop
9th Sep 2008, 18:33
I can see no further use of this thread other than answering the peurile rants of the same person - here and in another thread.

Waste of time, waste of space.

Closed!