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mytyresareflat
7th Sep 2008, 19:13
Evening all..Just hearing some rumours that FUT may not be operating this time tomorrow due to the inevitable fuel pressures and not hedging their fuel this year..I hope sincerely for all that this is not the case as they are a nice bunch of people....

Rainboe
7th Sep 2008, 19:20
Previous thread already running in Airlines Airports etc. Please say you didn't pick it up from there?

mytyresareflat
7th Sep 2008, 19:22
no....just got it from a friend and thinks its a real shame if its true...know a few guys working there and this is the last thing they need

John Giles
7th Sep 2008, 19:36
Yep.Its true.No flights tomorrow.

Rainboe
7th Sep 2008, 19:43
It's always a real shame when businesses go bust and people lose their jobs, especially in sudden hard times like we are entering. We're all just trying to pay our mortgages and car loans and school fees, and it doesn't help when people pop up in various forums making a big game of 'let's guess who will be next to go under!', like some absurd game of grown up pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey. I'm surprised such posts are allowed to stay, but they are. What fun! (not). If another good airline is going under, I don't imagine anyone feels pleasure right now except Mr. O'Leary.

Mister Geezer
7th Sep 2008, 20:34
Is Futura Gael affected as well?

akerosid
7th Sep 2008, 20:37
Sadly, yes, it will be; it's wholly owned by Futura.

It's sad to see Futura (or, of course, any other airline) go; it's been a presence on the Irish charter scene for nearly 20 years (indeed, EI was a founding shareholder, back in 1989, with 20% but subsequently sold its holding). It's been a regular operator on the Irish market - DUB, ORK and SNN - since then.

Commiserations to the airline's employees at what must be a very distressing time.

http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5739610&nseq=1

eagle21
7th Sep 2008, 20:42
due to the inevitable fuel pressures and not hedging their fuel this year..


Well the barrel is at 106$ now so let's not just blame everything on fuel cost.

StoneyBridge Radar
7th Sep 2008, 20:44
Only in Spanish, I'm afraid, but you get the gist:

http://www.ultimahora.es/segunda.dba?-1+7+446613

La compañía aérea Futura ha anunciado hoy a sus operadores y proveedores que se ve obligada a cesar sus actividades antes las dificultades económicas que atraviesa. Futura tenía la intención de presentar un concurso de acreedores, pero desde Aviación Civil se le advirtió que esta decisión obligaría a las autoridades a retirarle la licencia de vuelo. Ante esta situación la charter mallorquina dejará de operar a partir de las 00.00 horas de mañana lunes.

spider_man
7th Sep 2008, 20:47
The airline Futura today announced its operators and providers who are forced to cease their activities before the economic difficulties being experienced. Future intended to present an arrangement with creditors, but from the Civil Aviation warned that this decision would force the authorities to withdraw the licence of flight. Faced with this situation the charter Majorcan cease to operate from 00.00 pm tomorrow Monday.

eagle21
7th Sep 2008, 21:01
More info:

Initially the airline will stop operations for 24 hours. The the Civil Aviation Authorities will decide on their future.

There are strong rumours of corruption in the airline.


This is not the first time an airline suspends operations for 24 hours in Spain. Iberia did it in the past and now are a very successful venture , let's hope this will be the case for Futura ( unliklely )

EC-YKA
7th Sep 2008, 21:32
Found this on the Spanish pprune Futura thread:

Mañana se presentara el concurso de acreedores junto al ERE y el plan de viabilidad a Fomento. Las operaciones de vuelos quedaran suspendidas desde las 24:00 de esta noche durante al menos 24h.
Desde la DGAC se advirtio a FUA que si paralizaba las operaciones les retiraba el AOC.
Hoy han estado volviendo los aviones vacios a PMI para evitar que los precinten.

My translation:
Tomorrow a meeting with creditors and ERE will take place and also the viability plan will be presented to the corresponding government department. Operations will be suspended from 24 hours tonight (o.ooh Monday) for at least 24 hours.
DGAC warned Futura that if they suspend operations their AOC would be suspended.
Today all airplanes have been ferried to PMI to avoid them being grounded elsewhere.

Very sorry to hear ....

juliett

babemagnet
7th Sep 2008, 21:40
How much planes do they have? And do they only do charter flights or also line flights?

dontdoit
7th Sep 2008, 21:50
It's never been the same there since Willie Walsh left.

CargoOne
7th Sep 2008, 22:02
Furura is (was?) around 10x 738 and 5x 737 classics, so I would say if they go it will create quite a big gap on Spahish charter market. Next week will be hot with many tour operators trying to re-arrange their charter programes and find a new operators.

aerosexual77
7th Sep 2008, 22:23
Rainboe,

I was the one who originally posted that Futura was about to go bankrupt. There were then posts from yourself and others to state that I was irresponsible and living in a fantasy land, even tough I stated that it was from a reliable source. This is a news and rumour network and I asked the question did anyone have any more info on what i had heard. It now transpires that I was not so wrong.
As much as I never like to see an airline go under I would never make a random, reckless thread unless I tought the source was very reliable.
Its more frightning to see such a well eatablished player gone under we must ask whos next?

Capot
7th Sep 2008, 22:36
Aerosexual

Futura have not, on the evidence, gone bankrupt. You could help by choosing words more carefully. Do you know what that one actually means, in legal terms?

aerosexual77
7th Sep 2008, 22:57
Capot,

Bankruptcy is being unable to pay back your creditors. It looks like that the companies that leese the aircraft to Futura have called in money that was owed and they havent got it.
I hope the people who dont come out of this short are the workers on the front line and the passengers who have saved all year for their annual holiday.
I do hope they can make an arrangement with their creditors and avert bankruptcy.

Riu
7th Sep 2008, 23:21
i knew Futura had something around 35x 737-800 -700

greatoaks
8th Sep 2008, 06:34
Futura International : 19 x 737
Futura Gael : 3 x 737

yoland
8th Sep 2008, 08:19
Another one bites the dust. Futura Gael ceased operation from midnight last night.Sorry for all the folks who lost their jobs.:(

yoland
8th Sep 2008, 08:36
Its no longer Rumour and News but a fact.

Morbid
8th Sep 2008, 09:18
Futura has been in a bad way for a while.

Their business model has recently been to fly for others either on a charter or wet lease basis. Great in an expanding market... not the most suitable model for a contracting one as its normally the sub contracts that are 1st out the door.

As far as I know last week saw internal negotiations with staff to reduce all salaries to 1000€ a month for 6 mths. Naturally this didn´t cover the basic living costs of most staff and a strike was voted through. The strike never went ahead as I believe the directors made the full financial position known to staff. Staff have a none too shabby shareholding in the company.

Yesterday saw a petition to the Transport minister for a 24hr grace period to conclude a creditors meeting and to see if the company can achieve sufficient backing from exisiting shareholders and creditors to continue. I am led to understand the grace period has been granted. (Incidently this is the same minister who knows next to naff all about aviation in Spain and has tried to treat the Spanair accident as a political football). I´m also led to believe that the debts are numerous and large although not insumountable. Thing being it will require someone to invest substantial sums to turn the business around and who wants to invest in aviation at this moment in time?

As for acusations of corruption... This is Spain and there are always accusations of corruption everytime something goes wrong. Can´t accept that the business model didn´t work instead preferring to find someone to blame.

Finally, condolences and simpathies for all in Futura

On another note also announced today was a 30% downsizing in staff from Spanish regional carrier Lagunair.

de_man
8th Sep 2008, 09:45
is it futura or futura gael (subsidary) that has ceased ops?

Johnny F@rt Pants
8th Sep 2008, 09:47
De man - see post number 7:\

It's both, they're all one company:{.

Azreal
8th Sep 2008, 10:02
Futura had approached their creditors to ask for 2 month moratorium on payments until a new business plan could be finalised. All this sounds reasonable but the new business plan would include a moratorium of at least another 8 months. The lessors decided to remove the aircraft and place them elsewhere at better rents instead of taking such a large open position with Futura. Ultimately it was this decision allied to the large unpaid Eurocontrol fees that forced their hand.

Air Europa while not in a similar situation has agreed to return 2 x A330 and a few B737-800 to GECAS over the next month, unless they can restructure their current operations. As they are backed by Globalia the doomsday scenario is not likely but retrenchment is still on the cards.

de_man
8th Sep 2008, 10:14
unfortunately, that's what i had thought.:(

hopefully they'll be able to work something out

aeroground
8th Sep 2008, 10:24
good luck to all involved been there myself more than once


Irish regulator withdraws Futura Gael's AOC

Ireland's aviation authority has withdrawn Dublin-based charter carrier Futura Gael's air operator's certificate, while Spanish parent company Futura International Airways is declining to comment on the status of its remaining carriers.

Dublin-based Futura Gael operates charter flights to the Mediterranean, Eastern Europe and Egypt. According to Flight's ACAS database, the Irish carrier has a single Boeing 737-400 which is owned by Airplanes Group.

Futura Gael is said to have ceased trading overnight and a spokeswoman for the Irish Aviation Authority says: "Their air operator's certificate has been withdrawn."

A spokesman for Ireland's economic oversight body, the Commission for Aviation Regulation (CAR), says: "My understanding this morning is that [Futura Gael] has ceased trading while looking for an investor. They stopped flying at midnight."

The spokesman says Futura Gael is not obliged to notify CAR if it ceases trading and he was unable to give a definitive confirmation of the airline's status, but Futura Gael was "under watch" by the CAR, owing to concerns over its financial viability, and subject to regular regulatory review meetings.

A Dublin Airport Authority spokesman also says he understands that the carrier ceased trading at midnight.

A Futura International Airways spokeswoman declines to comment, saying only that a statement "regarding everything" will be released later today. The Spanish civil aviation administration could not immediately be contacted.

Palma de Mallorca-based Futura International Airways was founded in 1989 and is owned by Futura Global Aviation Holdings. Its fleet comprises 19 aircraft: 11 Boeing 737-800s, seven 737-400s and one 737-300. Flyant operates three aircraft, two Boeing 737-300SFs and a

testpanel
8th Sep 2008, 12:56
On another forum there is talk they may be back flying as of tomorrow......

babemagnet
8th Sep 2008, 13:31
Big mess in Holland and belgium TUI chartered 5 737s from Futura for the Summer season big delays now for passengers out of EHAM and EBBR.

eagle21
8th Sep 2008, 14:46
Futura not closing down


From el.mundo.es http://www.elmundo.es/elmundo/2008/09/08/baleares/1220866810.html


Airline will continue to operate with half the fleet, and staff...

Flights restarting tomorrow apparently, 8000 affected pax relocated on other flights



I am afraid I can't find a translation, so I will use online translator:

/displays the contest of creditors to the judge and will reduce its group to half The company presents/displays the suspension of payments in the Court of Mercantile nº1 Of 22 airplanes with which it operates at the moment in summer, it will remain with between 12 and 14 Seguran that the price of petroleum is ' to them; destroyed the forecasts of Future it presentsingresos' An airplane of the company in the airport of Palma de Mallorca. Updated 08/09/2008 Mondays 14:27 (CET) EDUARDO COLOM PALM. - Airline Future has presented/displayed contest of creditors - old suspension of payments before Court of Mercantile nº1 of Palma de Mallorca, that will have to decide if it admits to proceeding this request, according to confirm sources of the Court Superior of Justice. This situation must to the crisis that crosses the company by the ascent of the price of petroleum, among others causes. Another one of the measures that it anticipates to carry out the company is to reduce to its group and its fleet to half, according to the own company. Of 22 airplanes with which it operates at the moment in summer, Future it will remain with between 12 and 14. Which, they admit, could suppose the reduction of half of the group. The fundamental cause is that " it has increased the debt of the airline due to the incremeto of the price of petróleo" , circumstance that " it has destroyed the forecasts to them of income in verano". The airline has predicted to resume the flights tomorrow and argues that the unique reason by they have stopped which them has been for " to reorganize its fleet facing the presentation of concurso". Altogether, parón has affected about 8,000 passengers, who already are relocated in other flights. The company asked for yesterday to Civil Aviation the temporary cease of its activity and the dependent department of the Ministry of Public Works and the Economy has given today authorization it retakes so that it, have indicated the same sources. ' It has pillaged to us by sorpresa' The member of the committee of company Alexander Juárez, CCOO, has indicated to the journalists to the doors of soothes of the company, where a meeting between the Future direction of and the workers is being held, of which the employees will have to return to their jobs and now to retake with normality their activity. " It has pillaged to us to all by sorpresa" , Juárez in relation to the temporary paralyzation of the activity and the request on the part of the company of the old figure of the suspension of payments has explained to do against its bad economic situation. Juárez is addition that the company has communicated them that has received the authorization of Civil Aviation to retake its activity, which are prepared to reinitiate " of form inmediata". The CCOO representative has said not to understand why the activity became paralyzed yesterday and has denounced " great opacidad" of the direction of the company, which would have, in his opinion, to have one " position clara" in order to explain what it is happening. Juárez has been also " very crítico" by " decision unilaterally to stop the activity of empresa" , adducing one it causes stranger for the workers. " A financial reason would not have to disable actividad" , it has indicated the CCOO representative, that is addition that it " it has neither feet nor cabeza". The unionist also has argued who the company can present/display a contest of creditors and continue its commercial activity with normality. He has explained thus it to Juárez journalists after the meeting who have maintained. Proposal to the workers This news takes place 10 days after the direction of the airline presented/displayed to the unions a plan of business for 2009. Between the activities contemplated in this plan, the company anticipates to realise temporary suspensions in its operations, that would affect to near 130 workers, according to the data that the president of the company committee facilitated, Julian Potter, the past 28 of August. Future it emitted an official notice that same day, warning that the objective of the company is " to align the interests of the shareholders and the workers of the Futura" Group;. The company made a proposal to the workers to reduce of drastic way the wage to them, in exchange for advantages with action of the group. This newspaper tried to contact, without success, with its president, Roman Pané. The workers of the airline met last night in soothes of the company, in Palma de Mallorca, after he knew himself that Future he will cancel all the flights anticipated for today, according to confirmed to this newspaper the services of the company in the airport Are Sant Joan. Future International Airways was founded, in 1989, by the Irish Aer Lingus. The Future Group account with a fleet of 38 airplanes, the family Boeing 737. The last year, transported 3.7 million passengers and had consolidated data of invoicing of 330.9 million Euros. The shareholders of the company distribute between the managers and employees (a 53.5%) and the British investment fund Hutton Collins (a 46.5%). The directive equipment and this company/signature took control of the capital of the company in October of 2007, after the decision of Capital Corpfin and Aer Lingus to sell their participation. The operation was led by the present advisor delegated of Future, Roman Pané. The own bottoms of Future were valued in 70 million Euros. Before this crossing took place, the shareholder structure of the company was formed by the bottom of Capital Corpfin risk capital, like majority partner, with a 67%; Aer Lingus, founding company of the airline, that stayed like financial investor with a 20%; and the directive equipment and employees, with a 13%. The entrance of Hutton Collins allowed the directive equipment to increase its participation until reaching the majority. Future independent charter of Europe is considered like the more powerful company. At present, it has diversified his activity with complementary businesses.

billyg
8th Sep 2008, 15:56
This from the Spanish Press


Palma, Sept. 8 (EFE) .- The president of the charter airline Futura, Roman Pané, has advanced the feasibility of the plan will lead the company to cut half its workforce-about 600 of its 1,211 employees, and reduction "drastic" of its fleet of high season, from 22 aircraft to 12 or 13 aircraft.

Pané has offered a press conference in which he explained that the presentation today of a contest voluntary creditors and the critical economic situation of the company should be so crucial to the "bestial and" speculative "rise in oil prices.
Tomorrow, Tuesday, as insured, Futura will progressively resume the activity of its flights, and on Friday before Civil Aviation must submit a plan for viability, which wants to agree with unions.
After meeting this morning for about three hours, the management and employee representatives, PAN has appeared before the media.

As explained above, cutting the workforce does not have much to do with the situation of the company with how the situation facing the aviation sector, which must make a "major effort to adapt to an environment that will never be what it was in the past. "
The airline has been in the past eighteen years, recalled, a "reference" for the sector in management, profitability and safety of their flights, but "unfortunately" the company is experiencing today by economic problems caused by a "plenty of reasons", as the drop in demand and, most importantly, for both crude.
Payment of the oil that has faced Futura in July and August "has destroyed" the results of summer the company, whose principal activity is recorded in the summer months.

During the winter, Future plans to maintain 5 flights, but is forced to reduce its fleet during the high season, has been clarified.
The viability plan, as has commented Pané, supposed to reach agreement with staff of the company and creditors, and "perhaps" alienate any of the assets of the company.

The "reason" in which the direction of Future yesterday decided to discontinue its aerial activity for 24 hours was "planning for how the operation should be done when it comes to air traffic", has maintained the president.
"Yesterday we were scared, but today at least we have an illusion as a company and fight for it," he asserted Pané, who has been clarified that the 1,211 employees, 800 are fixed and about 600 work in Spain.

In addition to the decrease in staffing, has realized the president, should also be a "major effort" in terms of salaries of workers and "achieve imaginative ways to make the enterprise viable" as they agree that both address as employees, as he said.
Pané has not quantified the debt of Futura, but it has realized that the cancellation of the company's operations for 24 hours has affected some 8,000 passengers.
Moreover, the works council of the airline acknowledged that the situation of the company will mean cutting its workforce.

This is explained by the works council member Alejandro Juarez (CCO), has said that trade unions aspire to "preserve" jobs and the continuity of the company.

The leader of CCO has pointed out that unions are "very critical" with the decision "unilateral" of the company today paralyze the airline business for 24 hours.

The template Future "it feels like a huge nerves," he acknowledged Juarez, who has announced that unions will "pose anything to keep jobs."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

testpanel
8th Sep 2008, 16:26
Some of you know how well some pilots are/were being paid in Futura the last years?
(i heard some figures......)

eagle21
8th Sep 2008, 16:53
Some of you know how well some pilots are/were being paid in Futura the last years?
(i heard some figures......)


and your point is...

JW411
8th Sep 2008, 17:24
I have absolutely no idea but he might be referring to "brown envelopes". I have certainly seen them being passed around with an EC callsign on them.

vanHorck
8th Sep 2008, 18:33
Guess the point is that if some staff were being paid over market rates it makes for bad business and is a short term gain only for those receiving the brown envelopes.... to the detriment of all others

testpanel
8th Sep 2008, 18:40
VanHorck,

Thank you....

Jox
8th Sep 2008, 18:56
Now that is definitely a rumour, but please let’s not take it too far. We could all end up in a similar boat with the future uncertain for all.

Thoughts for all at the company, here’s hoping.

Jox :ok:

vanHorck
8th Sep 2008, 19:13
Welcome!

The reason i clarified is that the industry seems to suffer in some circles from an illness: Pedantics

And that makes for lousy pilots (CRM)

I d love some of the PPRuNe posters to get off their high horses

Be good!:ok:

dingoxh
8th Sep 2008, 19:46
Futura will not operate tomorrow or ever again. Meeting in PMI today and I was speaking with someone who is that meeting and they are not going to operate ever again. What a pity , because lovely crews and fleet. Its just bad manaagement that finished them....not the oil crises. most of their work is sub charter so they dont have to pay for the oil....

1200 people have lost their jobs in spain and 90 in ireland.....i hope all will be able to find somthing soon

eagle21
8th Sep 2008, 19:48
some staff were being paid over market rates

This makes me laugh. We don't have a Central Airline Bank that sets the average market salary.

Each airline decides how much they pay to their pilots, then pilots apply for position in the airline of their choice.

Maybe the quality of the pilots/staff is also above market average.

Anyway never blame employees for how much they cost to the airline, it is the airline's responsability ( managment ) to design a bussiness plan that works, and there are plenty of airlines where it works. IB,BA,LH,AF,IWD,SIA,FR,EZY.

And then the ones where it does not work such us: AZ,OA,JKK....


It is my belief that if airline managers spent all the time they spend trying to reduce cost in trying to generate more revenue things would be very different for us all.

Its just bad management that finished them....not the oil crises:D

EC-YKA
8th Sep 2008, 20:24
dingoxh ... that would be a very sorry thing to hear ... any reliable source to the bad news you're spreading??

dingoxh
8th Sep 2008, 20:50
i know 3/4 people at the meeting in pmi and one of them has said that they are not operating tomorrow.....so i guess someone at the meeting is as reliable as it gets...he would have no reason to spin me a fib.....

EC-YKA
8th Sep 2008, 21:13
Ok, I just had a look at the recent spanish press releases and found:
Futura admite que "es posible" que sus aviones no vuelen mañana · ELPAÍS.com (http://www.elpais.com/articulo/economia/Futura/admite/posible/aviones/vuelen/manana/elpepueco/20080908elpepueco_2/Tes)

My translation:
>>
Futura admits the possibility that some flights might not “take to the air” tomorrow.
The charter company has suspended their payments. The agency's board assumes that there will be cut downs to staff numbers and asks to accept the viability plan. Spanish Civil Aviation has openend an investigation to the matter. Palma de Mallorca - 08/09/2008
*
.... *
The charter company Futura confirms the possibility to suspend some of their flights tomorrow due to “some customers might deny to operate with their flights”, as the chief of human resources of the airline, Pere Torrens, stated. The board of Futura, the airline that today suspended all their operations for the day and presented an offer to creditors – former suspending all payments - informed today in a meeting for the staff of the airline, that the airline does not have sheduled, adverse to former announcements, any flights for tomorrow.
Torrens confirmed “it's possible that some flights may be cancelled “on petition of clients that may have chosen to work with other operators.” .The manager accredits flight cancellations to the unique situation of a company like Futura who “for the first time in aviation history” maintains its commercial activities also they have suspended payments to creditors. Torrens points out that Futura should “start anew (like starting from zero) their relations with their clients” also he highlights that the company intends to maintain the sheduled services for tomorrow!

Staff cutdowns
The president (chairman) of Futura, Roman Pané, has forwarded this morning that the vialbility plan of Futura includes a cut down of staff of about 600 of the actual 1211 person staff force and that the fleet reduction will range from 22 to about 12 or 14 aircrafts. Pané explains that the presentation of the suspention of payments and the critical economic situation of the airline is due to the “monstrous and speculative raise in petroleum costs”. The manager points out that Futura will resume the activity of their flights and on Friday will present to Civil Aviation their viability plan which they will aline ( conform) with the implied syndicades (organisations).
Just before,the board of Futura did recognize openly that the momentarily situation of the airline does imply a cutdown on staff employment and asks to be informed in detail of the future plans of the airline. (?)
Civil aviation has opened an investigation on Futura for having suspended their operation in “unison decision” and demanded for Futura to present a throughout report regarding their financial situation and their garanties and founds for resuming operations.
<<

I stand to be corrected for any error unintentionally made and I wish Futura and all their staff that everything may be sorted out by Friday and no further disadvantages may result ....

All the best,
Juliett

EC-YKA
8th Sep 2008, 21:17
dingoxh ... thank you for your answer. I'm convinced that noone implied within this "problem" has any mayhem to spread ... it's just that I'm overly sorry to hear and read such bad news ...

greetz from PMI
Juliett

mokilu
8th Sep 2008, 21:25
...............................

oceancrosser
9th Sep 2008, 02:39
I confirm this.
Tomorrow we will not fly again. We can not access to our rooster (via Intranet) since sunday evening. Skyops (crew/planes control application) is also not working.
We received a sms message in which we are informed that the CEO is not controlling FUA, Director of Operations is missing (in order to keep all his bones complete...). The "Concurso de Acreedores" is a bankruptcy process controlled by the spanish Government.
Although we love Futura, we are nearly all looking for job. There is probably no solution if all the lessors, clients and providers loose thrust in Futura.
Does anyone need 250 well trained B737 pilots?
Flydubai, JAL, KAL, China?...

All with level 4 English I presume? Some of the the Futura crews flying to my base had some real language issues. Sorry about the job losses, inevitable in todays economic environment i guess. Less to do with oil price than other factors. Underpricing etc. :ugh:

Right Way Up
9th Sep 2008, 06:01
All with level 4 English I presume? Some of the the Futura crews flying to my base had some real language issues

This is not the time or place for such comments.

Good luck to the Futura crews, I hope it works out.

muckin fuddle
9th Sep 2008, 06:39
All with level 4 English I presume? Some of the the Futura crews flying to my base had some real language issues


Not very nice under the circumstances............. how's your Spanish then ?

What could Oceancrosser rhyme with ?? :ok:


Edited to ensure evel 4 english for my friend Oceancroser !

andrijander
9th Sep 2008, 07:54
Congratulations: you've just achieved to give them an extra stab in the back at the right time (when they need it least, that is).

It rhymes with to**er and I may not mean toaster by the way.

Anyways: animo compa~neros mucha suerte y desde el MUAC os deseamos lo mejor. Una pena tener que vivir dos eventos tan malos y tan proximos (el otro siendo siendo lo del MD80, teniendo JKK la base ahi seguro que os cae cercano).

Un saludo muy grande y mantened la cabeza alta,

A.

oceancrosser
9th Sep 2008, 11:35
Now I may feel sorry for those Spanish pilots losing their jobs at Futura. But there is another side to the coin as well. I do not feel sorry that Futura is out of business. There is an element of their own doing therein. They agressively undercut other airlines on price for tour operator flights. They practiced flights into realms of flight duty time not achievable by airlines from countries with reasonable FTL limits e.g. the UK. Spain is not exactly a front runner there.
And why is it only acceptable to point to asians and other from far away for their English R/T communications skills, or more exactly lack thereof? A couple of French operators also spring to mind for the same reason.
Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

BusBoy
9th Sep 2008, 11:46
luckily OceanCrosser does not represent the pilot community of which I am proud to be a part.
Best wishes

muckin fuddle
9th Sep 2008, 12:40
Now I may feel sorry for those Spanish pilots losing their jobs at Futura. But there is another side to the coin as well. I do not feel sorry that Futura is out of business. There is an element of their own doing therein. They agressively undercut other airlines on price for tour operator flights. They practiced flights into realms of flight duty time not achievable by airlines from countries with reasonable FTL limits e.g. the UK. Spain is not exactly a front runner there.
And why is it only acceptable to point to asians and other from far away for their English R/T communications skills, or more exactly lack thereof? A couple of French operators also spring to mind for the same reason.
Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura. Now the chickens have come home to roost.

Oh Oceancrosser. Sorry but your earlier comment was directed at Mokilo personally who may well be one of those pilots " you feel sorry for. " :=


You never did answer my question - how is your level 4 Spanish ? ( or Chinese, Malaysian or even French now !! )

levantes
9th Sep 2008, 14:37
I'll bet oceancrosser only speaks English!
But hey... who needs to speak a second language!:rolleyes:
Oceancrosser please decide! You are happy because now that Futura is shuting down pilots will have more time to improve their English (Linguaphone), or you are happy because the pilots will get a chance to find a job somewhere:hmm:(to practice their English) with better FDP limitations!:*:*

mokilu
9th Sep 2008, 15:34
Dear oceancrosser,

some people seem to be stupid when they are quiet; others do confirm what they are when they write.
Spanish 16B was more restrictive than EU-OPS part Q.
Undercutting: CPT average month salary of 9500€ and 6000€ for a F/O. Can you undercut anything with this salaries
ICAO level 4: you are right. This summer we had new f/o's. 3 were fired two month ago. New pilots usually do not know how to talk on HF. But they can fly and can learn to speak better.

"Pilot jobs have been lost outside Spain due to Futura": where?

PS: sorry about my ICAO level 4 (got as present from the spanish DGAC; french crews got level 6...), but english is my 5th language.

RoyHudd
9th Sep 2008, 17:59
What a shame...Good Luck to all Futura folk seeking work during these difficult times.

apaddyinuk
9th Sep 2008, 18:17
Good luck to all the Futura lads and lassies. Ignore what OceanTosser is saying!

Back when EI used to handle you guys in DUB I had the pleasure to meet some very funny personalities in the flight deck!

You'll all go on to bigger and better things no doubt!

brendan ward
9th Sep 2008, 18:21
why only wish pilots good luck. now best of luck to ALL FUTURA PERSONNEL

Jox
9th Sep 2008, 21:41
Nice recovery from a bit of thread drift.

Times are hard for all in JAA land, brace youselves guys and girls I fear worse is around the corner. Those on the other side are having it likewise although with a different regime to which we do not subscribe or bid.

The industry regardless of which side we are on is the important one, good luck to those that are searching for a new position, I wish you all well and hope you find sucess quickly.

Jox :ok:

clearasmud154
9th Sep 2008, 22:44
Heard the news of Futura's unfortunate demise in work today. As a load controller who has been dealing with Futura crews for quite a while now I am honestly sorry to see them go - even if the based aircraft arrangement at EGPF didn't really work all that well a couple of years back! ;)


In all honesty though, the majority of the crews were true professionals and an absolute pleasure to deal with - I can only wish them all the very best for the future and hopefully they'll move on to far bigger and better things very quickly indeed.


clearasmud154

Deeko01
9th Sep 2008, 23:04
Clearasmud,

Did u get to meet Capt De Le Cuadra?

BYALPHAINDIA
10th Sep 2008, 02:57
It's a shame it has come to this mess.

I actually believed all that 'Bull****e' on their website - Futura a sophisticated, Well Managed Succesful Airline:ugh:

And the personal message from Mr Big Pane :hmm:

I guess talk is cheap.

Spanish Airlines have lost their appeal now, As the 'Yugos' are coming back in force.

Yugoslavian Airlines are going to make a big pressence in the UK in 2009.

Morbid
10th Sep 2008, 07:22
BYALPHAINDIA

This is the second piece of ill informed rubbish you have posted...

If anyone wants to see his "agenda" : http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/342584-spanish-airlines-currently-most-unpopular.html

Mister Geezer
10th Sep 2008, 18:20
Sad to see 6 Futura 737s sat side by side on the ramp in PMI today! :(

As for the following comment:

Yugoslavian Airlines are going to make a big pressence in the UK in 2009.

Pigs may fly - anyway exactly who is going to make this big presence? The days of big charter operators like Aviogenex are long gone!!! :ok:

WHBM
10th Sep 2008, 20:55
Now dragged down as well appears to be a tour operator, Seguro Holidays, who used Futura a lot out of Prestwick.

BBC NEWS | Scotland | Glasgow, Lanarkshire and West | Budget holiday company goes bust (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7608482.stm)

KOLDO
11th Sep 2008, 20:36
Dear public,

Please, check Extracrew | El punto de encuentro de la aviación | pilotos, TCP, handling... (http://www.extracrew.com) "airline pilots" and "aviation" forum

Need to be translated from spanish, but is worth the effort.
Keep in mind that FUA do 75% charter, so fuel is already paid by others.:=

Pure financing engineering, and more to come....:eek:


Bye¡

CIV5C
13th Sep 2008, 09:18
I heard there was a big staff meeting yesterday. Any news from that?

sammy01
14th Sep 2008, 20:58
To all the Futura staff so sorry to see you go, good luck in all your do.
Flight Support LPL :D:D:D

habubauza
23rd Sep 2008, 03:34
It looks like Futura's operating certificate has officially been suspended if anyone was still keeping track.

Spain suspends operating licence of Futura Airways (Roundup) (http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/business/news/article_1432382.php/Spain_suspends_operating_licence_of_Futura_Airways__Roundup_ _)

dublindispatch
25th Nov 2008, 16:05
Are futura/Futura gael/FlyANT dead and buried as the aircraft appear to be moving around the ramp and Dublin to and from SRT?

Are they rising for the ashes???

CentreFix25
25th Nov 2008, 17:13
Dont think so, probably just the owners looking after/maintaining their aircraft. In my searching for an answer I came across this (http://www.futura-aer.com/) which was interesting reading.

mytyresareflat
8th Dec 2008, 09:25
See a report this morning that the tour operator Sunway Travel are thinking of buying Futura Gael...There might still be a chance :-)