Parachute for Super Decathlon

[will fly for food 06]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could recommend a parachute that I could comfortably wear in a Super Decathlon?

Thanks in advance.

[Fuji Abound]

Out of interest - why?

I found the Super D tricky enough to get in an out, I am not sure you would have much chance in the air.

[will fly for food 06]

Because I have short legs and I am forever forgetting the cusion :ugh: So I would like one that is strapped to me:uhoh:.
Its better to have one and not need it than to need it and not have one. Unfortunately parachutes are now in my mindset. I had always done aerobatics with either a parachute or had the martin baker option to hand. Now I dont have that option I would like to give myself a chance. I have read previous posts and understand what some peoples thoughts are.
The super D is fitted with a nice red handle that removes the door. I agree that the rear seat doesnt have much of a chance to clamber forward under any sort of G force. During my career I have had aircraft that dont always behave themselves but have eventually come out of spins. I am not looking to explain why I would like a parachute. Do red bull air race pilots wear them? If yes whats the point at that altitude?
If someone has worn a parachute in the Super D and would recommend one then I would like to hear from them.

[martinprice]

I wouldn't fly the Super D without a parachute and, in fact, I'm so used to it that I even wear it for cross-country flights. I'll try and find out exactly what I'm sitting on - not my plane - and let you know. You could also email/call Allen Silver at Silver Parachutes in the San Francisco Bay Area (http://www.silverparachutes.com), who also has a bunch of training material on how to get out of the plane in an emergency. I had a very interesting conversation with him about this a few months ago - turns out that in the Decathlon you can't just pull that pin out because of the other latches on the door.

[englishal]

They are required to be worn in the USA, and I know places that rent Super D's so I suppose there must be some.....

Actually there is a very good point to wearing one.....From memory, but essentially......One member of the British Aerobatic team was practicing in the 70's without a parachute on (Not in a Super D), and part of the wing spar broke under 5G and the wing started to fold up. He realised very quickly that it only started folding up under positive G so he rolled inverted and the wing snapped back into position.....He had something like 11 mins before the engine stopped to think what the heck to do...He said that if he was wearing a parachute he'd have climbed to a safe altitude and bailed out....he wasn't. After a bit of experimenting he found that indeed if he rolled right way up the wing started to fold.....In the story he recounts that by this time he was shaking with fear as he was facing imminent death. In the end he made an upside down approach, rolling right way up just above the ground and the wing folded and the aircraft settled on the ground. He walked away, and they estimated that the wing tip cleared the ground by a few inches as he rolled upright....

So yea, wearing a parachute makes great sense :ok:

[will fly for food 06]

The Super D only has a two minute inverted system so wont have as long.
Thanks I will ask some of the other schools that operate her.

[javelin]

But then he smacked himself into a mountain ferrying a Heinkel :(

If you are coached, semi proficient and sensible, you will not break a Super D. It may catch fire, but so may a Cessna 150.

Just because you had a parachute in the WABC, doesn't mean that you need one now.

I have flown a Zlin 526 with a parachute but it was my seat cushion, without it, it was extremely uncomfortable. Other than that, I wouldn't bother. Yes, yes, yes, I know people have jumped out of stricken aeroplanes and survived. Be realistic, we are talking about a Super Decathlon, not an unlimited Extra, Zivko or Edge.

Save the money, weight and hassle :ok:

[eharding]

I keep referring to this article, but for me it sums up the situation perfectly:

http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/Journal_Nov_07.pdf#page=39

Make your own mind up. With specific reference to the Decathlon, if possible, select an enclosure type which can act as a subsitute for the existing seat cushions - if you can remove the seat back, a backpack type, or if the seat base cushion can be removed, a seat pack. I use an Irvin GQ seat pack in the Yak, and an Irvin Silhouette in the Pitts & Extra - although a lot of people I fly with use the National backpacks. If possible, get hold of a few different enclosure types and makes and try them out sitting in the aircraft - what works perfectly for one person can mean mild agony from buckles poking into bits of someone else.

However, as the article above shows, so much of the effectiveness of emergency equipment is the attitude you have towards its use.

[will fly for food 06]

Thank you for the info. Here is a link to some crash reports of the aircraft.

http://www.8kcab.com/Safety-analysis.html

Some of the aircraft departed at low level with no chance or recovery. There are few people who were saved by bailing out of a super D.

[Pitts2112]

WWFF06,

To get off the "to wear or not to wear" discussion and back to your original question, I wear a Softie seatpack chute in the Pitts. If I remember my Super D days correctly, I would guess you have more room to adjust vertically than horizontally so I'd think a seatpack, rather than a backpack, might be most suitable. Softie make a seatpack specifically for the Pitts (narrow seat pan) that may work just right. It's not soft and cushie, but it's perfectly comfortable for a couple of hours and I've done several of those legs in one day and been in good shape at the end (both of me and the day!).

If you find yourself at Popham, I can let you try mine on and see if it works for you. Drop me a PM to arrange if you'd like.

[martinprice]

Softie seatpack is what I'm using too, I think - same chutes get switched back and forth between a Pitts and Super D. I like using a seatpack chute because I'm not particularly tall and the elevated seating position works better for me.

[will fly for food 06]

Thanks. I will look into softies. I dont have very long legs and fly with a cushion when teaching from the back anyway but I may end up with tall people aswell.

[pilotohog]

Hi,

I do have strong wedge 311 parachute for my super decathlon and I did purchase them since I do also have short legs and also because it has a special wedge shape of the parachute system to put you in a slightly reclined position, much more comfortable. You need to remove your back cushion anyway.

I feel very comfortable specially with possitive G´s with this wedge shape in the lower back. I aldo ordered mines with the aerobatic harness that moves the snaps to the chest rather than on the legs, much more confortable specially when you are tightenig your seat harness.

National are very good, a little bit more thinner but without the wedge shape.

In Spain it is mandatory as well to wear parachute if you are going to fly with or more than 45º uplines/downlines and 60º banks......

Best regards,

Miguel

[Lister Noble]

Out of interest,what is the minimum height for these to deploy?
I flew in a glider recently and wore one,it certainly makes one feel more secure.
Also cost,is there a ballpark figure?
I fly an L4 Cub,no aeros and not much room in there,so probably not practical.
Lister:)

[pilotohog]

In the case of the strong parachutes, the manual says regarding time and height that it depends on your speed at deployment.......
-------------------------------
Limited to use by persons up to 115 kg (254 lbs) fully equipped (person, clothes, and equipment except parachute), and up to 150 knots IAS.

Generally, opening times are from 2 to 3 seconds and
the distance fallen would be from 150 feet to 300 feet. This does NOT mean that you should plan on jumping or pulling at 300 feet.
-------------------------------

Plus the time you need to think about jumping or not, time to open door, time to jump and pray.......I guess less than 1000 feet you do not need to pray anymore.....:eek:

Best regards,

Miguel

[will fly for food 06]

Thank you pilot hog. I think that is the parachute our school will buy. We are going try them on and see how they feel inside the aircraft before placing our order. I was wondering about the aerobatics straps because of the ratchet harness system.

[Mike Juliet]

This makes interesting reading. I am currently in the process of producing an emergency parachute designed specifically for use in GA aircraft. It weighs less than 5lbs, opens in under one second and less than 50ft from pulling the handle, and features a state of the art fully steerable canopy. I won't go into great detail as it is still in the design phase but I am hoping to have the prototype ready for testing in the next 12 months. Aerobatic pilots will love it as they won't even know they are wearing it.

I have no idea if there will be any great demand for it, but I am fed up with the ridiculous oversized bulky equipment that is currently sold to pilots as being the 'best available' when most of it is based on 1970s designs. The plan is to build the equipment to suit the requirements of light aircraft pilots, so size, weight and ease of use are the main objectives...and of course 100% reliability!

[pilotohog]

Prior to the super decathlon I had the chance to fly the Cap 10 and I remember that I was actually stickin the aerobatic straps on the legs with the harness, this is why I did purchase my parachutes with the aerobatic straps, those of the cap 10 were really uncomfortable.

I actually have dual ratchet harness as well and very comfortable. A couple of months ago I flew with national parachutes, normal straps and dual ratchet harness and I have to say that I did have problems sticking the straps on the legs, still, this may depend also on the pilot body I guess, shorter, taller, bigger, thinner.....back cushion in / out......

By the way, I did order them in the US rather than in europe, at that time, way way way cheaper than here.....

Best regards,

Miguel

[checkpointcharlie]

Hi,

As previously mentioned Allen Silver is your best bet. He knows the Super D well and is able to offer sound advice. Out of interest which aircraft are you flying ?

[Madbob]

WFFF 06

Read this story. Living proof if ever there was as to why to wear a 'chute IMHO. (And a helmet and gloves....)

MB

Freeflight Testimonial (http://www.freeflightent.com/citabria.htm)

http://www.freeflightent.com/images/citabria.jpg


When I arrived at the airport on the afternoon of April 10th 1999, I was ready to fly. I had just finished a shift as a Crime Scene Analyst for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. It was a beautiful Saturday and work had been reasonably slow all day, giving me time to ponder the flight I had scheduled for 1500 hrs.. I drove to the hangar and picked up my helmet and parachute and then proceeded to the opposite end of the airfield to the shade hangar where a Citabria 7KCAB was awaiting my arrival. I had logged about 40 hrs. in this plane in the last two years and felt like I knew the aircraft like a good buddy. I had felt some sadness recently because the overhaul on my Acrosport I was nearing completion and I would probably not fly the Citabria much once my baby was finished.

The pre-flight was as uneventful as it had been the previous 40 or so times before and one of the last items on the list was to remove the seat cushions (they have a tendency to float off in negative maneuvers, in case you were wondering) and tie up the rear seatbelts to eliminate the possibility of control interference. After donning my parachute and helmet, I cinched into the front seat and fired the engine. I was cleared to taxi and after an uneventful run-up, cleared for departure on runway 07. I still get a little bit exited at this point because I am actually flying now and nothing else really matters for the next hour or so, usually.

As I approached the area where I practice I did the usual roll-to-inverted, back to straight-and-level, and re-tightened my belts. I practice at about 6000 ft. MSL (3300 AGL)and have always felt that was a sufficient cushion for any situation I might find myself in (please note my revised opinion later in this article.) The first 30 minutes of the flight consisted of the usual combination of loops, rolls, hammerheads, etc..., and I felt like I was ready to head out and practice in the box. Well, maybe one last spin to burn some altitude so I could stay under class B airspace on the way to the box.

Throttle back to the stop, nose slightly above our uneven Las Vegas horizon, airspeed dwindling, stick full back/left rudder, shot of power for a clean break,... "one-half, one, one-and-a-half, (right rudder), two, forward stick...uh hum, guess you didn’t hear me, I said forward stick, *@!*#!!!. In retrospect, I am reminded of a dream where you are trying to escape some evil villain only to find that your legs won’t work. That is my best explanation of how I felt at that moment. Now the reality is obvious, do something quickly or die.

The next few seconds were busy as I remember it. Trying to look into the back seat to check the rear stick is a difficult task when you are securely fastened to the front seat, facing the wrong way, however, my flexibility surprised me and I saw that the rear seatback was in a really crummy configuration, looped over the rear stick below the second rung of the seat back. Again *@!*#!!!. I tried in vain to knock the seat loose and in approximately the same time frame applied full forward trim. No luck on either effort. Time to bail!

I always had vision of what would happen if I ever had to jettison the door, but apparently someone changed the script and failed to notify me because the scene was not at all what I had rehearsed. Pull the pin, rotate the red handle, door is gone, oops, no, door is still here, improvisation time, whack door with elbow, nope, whack door with shoulder, nope, unfasten seatbelt and lunge at door like a linebacker, much better. I should mention that somewhere during this last segment the plane broke into a right spin and I had also cut my fingers and was bleeding on everything in sight. Anyway, my helmet unplugged itself during the lunge ( I recommend this feature if you are planning to buy a helmet, which you should) and I was out the door. Considering the spin and the fact that my only actual parachute experience was a tandem jump with my girlfriend about 6 months previous, I was pretty stable. I looked for my D-ring, grabbed it firmly and pulled..... I would like to thank God, Allen Silver, Para-Phernalia Inc., Free Flight and Jim Abraham, I think they know why without explanation, and you will just have to figure it out.

*@!*#!!!, that hurt, but it really felt good! That is the only way I can describe the chute opening. I dropped my D-ring, grabbed the steering handles and looked down just in time to see the airplane that had taken care of me so well for so many flights hit the ground in a right spin and bounce laterally about 50 feet. I landed about 15 seconds later. Surveying the damage I determined that my only obvious injuries were lacerations on two fingers and a scrape on my right eyebrow and chin(Later that night and next day many bruises popped up in areas beneath the parachute straps, I will leave it up to you to imagine where exactly these might be.)

So why did I feel compelled to tell you about all of this? Well, two reasons I guess. First, I have to admit that as it turned out, the bail-out was somewhat exciting and everyone likes to tell a good war story. More importantly though, as corny as it may sound, this could happen to you, and you need to be ready. I never expected to have use my parachute in this way. I never thought I would use my helmet as a battering ram to knock loose a jammed door, but in those seconds everything that I had heard from Allen Silver, all the safety tips that Jim Abraham and other aerobatic pilots have drilled into my head, and having a good chute and helmet gave me a level of confidence and preparedness that I needed to do what I had to do to save my life. If I had been wearing my Nomex gloves as I usually do I probably wouldn’t have even cut my fingers.

I know we all think about safety and may even get a little tired of all of the harping about it, but I can tell you that in a jam is no time to try to figure out what you should do. Avail yourself of every bit of information you can get your hands on, go to seminars, preach to your friends, get and maintain good equipment,... oh, and my revised "practice altitude" opinion is as follows: Practice at least 1000 ft. higher than I ever think I will need. Have fun and fly safe!

[will fly for food 06]

Thank you Madbob. Trying on parachutes this week.:)

[pilotohog]

What did you did at the end? which parachutes did you tried? what´s is your conclusion? it would be nice to know your comments.

[greeners]

Hmm. Surely the question should be - why fly a Decathalon?!? ;)

[Flyingcircusace]

MIKE JULIET

Sounds very interesting please keep us informed.

Fcirc

[will fly for food 06]

Still waiting to go and try on the parachutes. Very hard to fit some time in when the CFI and myself are free to go look.
As for why fly a super decathlon:eek: I'd prefer to fly something with a bit more poke but thats all our school has. I'd love to teach on an extra 200 or pitts. If anyone would lease one we'd be happy too.

[pilotohog]

Any news? did you had the chance to test it?

I am very interested in knowing which parachute did you tried out.

Miguel