Airlink Politics

[titaniumspoon]

So, now the Union leader (Wannabe Chief Pilot) has accepted the company's offer of 11%, which includes your longevity..... Amazing! I wonder what he used to "negotiate" with them to accept their offer?
On the other hand, he being one of the few senior captains in the company will gain an extra -+ R4000 per month, not to be laughed at on their level, or any one els's. However, the lower you go down the more difficult it becomes to even see a theoretical difference, never mind up-keep difference! It suits the company to pay the few long term captains more. A small sacrifice for the company huh? They've got the right man in the union now. He'll accept ANYTHING they present to the union, he's got his sights set on higher positions in the company!
Wait till you see what the working/hours/conditions document shows which he will sign to accept too:\ . You will not be consulted with the full picture........Remember, he's only concerned to appease the company. They will work you within what the countries law dictates, only because the law IS there,(and it is not very lenient) otherwise.........
Anything more restrictive than the law allows, is profits gone for the big boys.............would you pay pilots more??? Why? They fly for the love of it. The money and working conditions are for the company. If you don't like it, leave!
JVJ's philosophy to the pilots: "We can discuss anything. But what I say goes"! To paraphrase someone else in SA, "Finish an klaar"!
Your "Stepping stone" company's stone is now almost totally submerged. Soon it will be a pointed rock that just hurts you as you step on it. Getting there fast!

[126,7]

11% sounds really measly....but then you said it yourself, its a stepping stone company and there is a queue of guys at the door waiting to take your place as soon as you've found something better. Dont think Link will ever change, neither will many other operators. There is no need to....

[oompilot]

This needs some deeper thought:suspect:

[oompilot]

Yes there is. With the rising costs of things like fuel the general operating costs are increasing. The training of new pilots is expensive. So the company employing these tactics can only be described as short sited and daft. An added factor is the pilot leaving takes with him experience which is then gained by the better paying airline.
:mad:Note:This doesn’t necessarily apply to a she leaving the company.:mad:

So therefore the better paying airline is also the safest. A good example would be to say compare the late Nationwide and Comair’s pay structure and past safety records.:ok:

[308GT4]

Mmmmm, once again I imagine I see the Pilot's Creed: Heaven and Hell and #1.
The more things change the stronger they seem to remain the same in professional aviation?

[nugpot]

It gives me no pleasure to say I told you so.

If you look in the archives on this site, you will see that we warned the Airlink pilots many moons ago that losing representation of the ALPA branch will cost you dearly. The only thing that saves pilots at an airline like this is a strong union.

I know that the pilots at Airlink were disillusioned by the actions of the Chairman at the time, but the solution was to change the Exco of the branch, not to resign from it.

Solidarity might be cheaper, but could never really solve aviation related problems. I see that there is a slow movement back to ALPA. A lot of Airlink pilots are non-branch members and you need to now start a recruitment drive and get your numbers past 50%, although the aim should be 100%. The select a strong Exco and STAND BEHIND THEM.

Do not allow Rodger to bully the Association by trying to fire the Chairman. The only way to solve the problem is for the pilots to stand together.

Unfortunately the apathy and lack of unity of the pilot group caused this situation and nothing will change unless that is first addressed. It is easy to drive a wedge between pilots by starting to slowly treat different groups in different ways or to bring in a new type and to disregard seniority. If the pilots can just stop thinking of themselves (individually) first, then the situation can be turned around.

OK, lecture finished. I hope that you guys and girls can find some common ground and get your ALPA branch up and running. All the help and expertise from the other branches and the ALPA staff is at your disposal. There is now case law that Rodger will have to accept the Association as bargaining unit if your numbers go past 50% of the pilots.

Good luck.
nugs

[Setron]

Hey Nugpotty!
How much is ALPA paying you to adverties for them at PPRUNE?:D
Just to refresh your memory- Obviously Capt Highspeed was one of the main problems with the "Jetsream Union" at the time, but he was not the only one causing s:mad:t. Since Stalin it has never been only one!
A lot of the old APA monkey's took the "I" in Union the wrong way!!!
Treated the APA-club like a closed venue and only people that voted in favour of those chaps got in (aka: "do as we say and shut up!")
Well people have voted with their feet and that's it.
But I don't expect you will understand anyway, cause you are still crying over the fall of communism...:ugh:
Wake up, Solidarity is the best there is at the moment for the guys and gals at Airlink!
To the comment:"I see that there is a slow movement back to ALPA"
Well, we'll put that down to what the "RU" in PPRUNE stands for...

And finally:
Living in the past has never solved the problems of the future!

Now quickly go potty and then bedtime my little Alpanier!
Nightynight and dream on...........................:zzz:

[Q4NVS]

Solidarity is the best there is at the moment for the guys and gals at Airlink!

You must be right, because Airlink is also the only company that continuously features on the Pprune Gripe Menu...:ugh:

Next Step: JvJ as Chairman of Solidarity at Airlink :}

:zzz:

[Springbok614]

o dear, this might be a start to a beeeg thread again!

still want to step on that stone though!

has airlink started a new intake again or did they settle down now for a bit?

any infor much appreciated!

614

[nugpot]

Setron,

No wonder Rodger can screw you over so easily. If yours is a voice of reason at Link, the battle is lost.

Well, it is not my problem.

Good luck and good night.

[Avi8tor]

Point totally missed. The 'union' is not ALPA or Solidarity. Its made up of the PILOTS!!! Until the Pilots stand together, the cause is lost.

[TwinJock]

Avi8tor

Until the Pilots stand together, the cause is lost.

You know as well as I do, this is not likely if not impossible!

10 Pilots and you have 11 different ideas!!!

[Ajax 28]

sounds like airlink is run by the saaf... :ugh:

[Setron]

Hey guys, isn't it better to write it all out, than to keep it in and feed your ulcer?

Q4NVS
the only company that continuously features

Any PR is good PR!? or maybe the others are too scared or too fat...:E

Springbok614
new intake again

Well I belive they had an intake but are still looking to fill a list... and yes someone told me the list is not only one or two...:) (I know what will come now!)

Nuggie
the battle is lost
In the end it is more important to win the war and not one battle but again I don't expect you to understand. Good by!

Avi8tor
Until the Pilots stand together
Quite right Avi ! But so many new people to get under one roof takes a bit longer if it is supposed to be strong!


Ajax 28
sounds like airlink is run by the saaf
Wrong! That's still comair...:}

Oh me tink I like tis! The Airlink threads have always been a joy in da past!
Not those dull ones that die after one reply!

Stay cool dud's summer is comming!:cool:

[Tin-Tin]

ALPA is the biggest joke EVER...They have been robbing pilots for far too long! Solidarity is much more efficient for only R55.00 a month!!:ok:
Airlink pilots received a 23 percent increase last year..They should not expect anything more than CPIX this year.. If you are not happy go and get a real job...

[FatFlaps]

Ooo...this should open a can of worms! Tin-Tin, are you inferring that flying is not a proper job or merely alluding to working at Airlink?

[Pitch&Fan]

A few points for the Airlink pilots,

1. Forget the 'Solidarity' thing and get yourselves, collectively, back into the ALPA-SA stable. The Airlink management are only too pleased to have you guys over with Solidarity, which to them is like squashing a harmless little bug.

2. Maybe Airlink should be run more like the SAAF (SAA/COMAIR/SAX), that way there will be a bit of team-spirit, some solidarity (real solidarity) and possibly some success at the negoitaing table. The person who posted about the SAAF earlier clearly never wore air force wings.

You guys might not like JVJ, but don't take him for a fool. He loves playing around with unions.

To re-emphasise my first point... You will get NOWHERE while hanging around the solidarity flag-pole. This is why SAX, SAA, and COMAIR are seniority based, well run, enjoyable airlines to work for. The pilots got/get together, got/get their shoulders to the wheel, and got/get their Sh-t together!! They also accept that association-subs are a part of the deal. Airlink will forever be a back-stabbing, confusing, dead-end company to work for, if you guys don't sit-up, and pay attention to how things should be done.

But that's your problem I suppose... It's been a while now, and I've seen absolutely no 'Solidarity' benefit for the Airlink pilots.

Cheers,

Pitch&Fan

[Doodlebug2]

Methinks that most of the whinging, SAA-bashing pilots on this forum have since been employed by the outfit all of you want to join!! I note all quiet on the Western (anti-SAA) Front lately. http://static.pprune.org/images/icons/mpangel.gif

[Pitch&Fan]

Suitcaseman,

Solidarity, the union, is simply never going to hack it for the Airlink pilots, although solidarity, the standing together for a principal, in an ethical manner, probably will.

The "bitching threads" about SAA, SAX, COMAIR, Cathay, Emirates, Qantas, Delta, British Airways.... Etc, are par for the course. Don't base your perception of any airline on these.

Do yourselves a big favour, and align with the only professional aviation association in the country. ALPA-SA (and its parent body, IFALPA) do one hell of a lot more than simply union work. In fact, I consider the non-union activities of IFALPA more important than the union work, and I pay my sub's with a smile. Also, when we need to stand together...It happens in an organised and efficient manner.

Come now... Be good to yourselves!

P&F

[Setron]

ALPA-SA (and its parent body, IFALPA) do one hell of a lot
Hear, hear, another Alpanian...

No doubt, ALPA is an organisation, that does at times a good job!
It's just that it let itself be abused as a vehicle for personal gains and when they realized that, it was already too late. So they fired the chairman... big deal, when the war (hi Nuggipotty;)) was already lost for some of the guys at the time! :(
Just shows, that they are maybe to big and fett to keep check and control over their branches!?
Eventually the people decided and the branche was closed (not by ALPA)

So keep paying for the bigwig's to go and have seminars and parties.
You can see then the pic's in the mag.

Have a good time reading about it...

[Doodlebug2]

P&F, couldn't agree more..although some may have a niggle or two. But Setron, wake up to a fresh brew,bru.

[Sir Osis of the river]

Doodles2,

The anti-SAA lobby is alive and well, fear not. It is just that we have real jobs:E

[Pitch&Fan]

Setron & The Airlink Pilots,

While I'm not one of them, the "bigwigs" are actually just volenteer pilots and other expert staff who give (considerably) of their time to keep the profession on the straight and narrow.

Dump the "they" syndrome, and become part of the solution Old Fruit!

Then again... If you (and the other Airlink pilots) chose to remain a non-aligned association that's fine too. This is about you guys, and what's best for you. "Solidarity" just isn't gonna work for you... That's all. The Airlink pilot's issues extend well beyond salary increases, and require a very well considered strategy if you hope to make the place a career airline. If its just a stepping stone (and that's fair enough too), there may not be any need to get too organised.

Cheers,

P&F

[Setron]

"Solidarity" just isn't gonna work for you...
Well, PF, I for my self don't have delutions of grandure, were I think to know what's best for others. Sound again like Stalin...

I would never say that ALPA is bad or does not work, it's always the matter of "the glove must fit".

Let me try to explain in easier terms for the more narrow thinker's:

PC's and Windows are the most widely used systems in the world.
Then you have small Apple with Mac's and their OS.
Also only with a small market share, they seem to have a lot of followers and they also do quite a good job quality wise.

Microsoft stands for dominance through quantity and convenience.
Apple stands for quality and inovation.

If you get my drift, then back to aviation:

Are you a Bill or a Steve?

(PS: 1Time is apparently running on "Apple"!)

[Pitch&Fan]

Setron,

An interesting, and possibly valid point of view!

The Airlink guys must obviously do whatever works best for them.

Best regards,

P&F

PS: I run a MacBook!

[reptile]

ALPA is the biggest joke EVER...They have been robbing pilots for far too long! Solidarity is much more efficient for only R55.00 a month!!
Airlink pilots received a 23 percent increase last year..They should not expect anything more than CPIX this year.. If you are not happy go and get a real job...

and

No doubt, ALPA is an organisation, that does at times a good job!
It's just that it let itself be abused as a vehicle for personal gains and when they realized that, it was already too late. So they fired the chairman...

I'm afraid both of you are a bit clueless when it comes to the inner workings of ALPA-SA.

1. The branch committees are nominated and elected by the pilot body of each airline. ALPA-SA has absolutely no influence on who gets elected. ALPA will simply facilitate the election process (print ballot papers, supply a venue for branch meetings and AGM's, etc.).

2. ALPA does not interfere or even prescribe how the branch should conduct their business. The role of ALPA is to supply support to the various branches. This is normally in form of access to specialists (labour practitioners, legal experts, etc).

3. Most of ALPA's work happens behind the scenes. For example: Legislation has just been passed that limits access to CVR information. The information contained on the CVR may only be used by the accident investigation team. This prevents transcripts ending up in the media where it may cause embarrassment or undue prosecution of air crews. The legislation is the product of many months of hard work by ALPA although very few pilots in the country is aware of it's existence - until they day it saves their butt's.

4. ALPA also provides support to individual members. The preparation of post accident/incident statements is an example. The crews of the nationwide accident in Cape Town and the Comair crew in Durban will testify of its value. Members are regularly supported in case at the Labour Court and sometimes even the Appeals Court of South Africa. In vast the majority of these cases the members win substantial financial compensation from greedy or unscrupulous employers (and all the legal costs are carried by ALPA - How's that for "Bang for your Buck"?)

5. Salary negotiations are up to the branch committees, with ALPA not getting involved in all. Should negotiations end in a stalemate, ALPA will supply suitably qualified arbitrators that are acceptable to all parties. If negotiations fail and industrial action (a strike by the pilots for example) follow, ALPA will organise the repatriation of stranded crews back to home base.

6. ALPA is continually involved at the highest level to ensure that airports comply to ICAO Annex 14 (Aerodrome Design and Operation). An example would be the runway safe area (or over run as it is known to some) at FAEL. The gradient of runway 11's overrun did not comply to the requirements of Annex 14. ACSA believed that by simply publishing a NOTAM, the problem would be solved. ALPA intervened and forced ACSA to reconstruct the area. Work should be complete by the end of October, making operation into FAEL safer for all.

And so the list continues - but I believe you're getting my drift.

If you two believe for one second that Solidarity has the know-how, influence or ability to accomplish half of the above (even at R55-00 a month!), you may be a lot slower than your parents have led you to believe.

The blame for poor performance by the last APA (Airlink Pilots Association) should be laid squarely at the feet of the members. 99% of pilots would not consider sacrificing their free time - and often money - to perform association activities (yes, it is a volunteer job and often requires extensive sacrifice).

If you want an association to work you need to stand together, pitch in when help is required and stay involved. The last point is very important - if the committee starts heading of on their own tangent, it should be swiftly pointed out and corrected - even it means electing a new committee

I suggest you get a grip and stop slagging an organisation whose activities are hugely beneficial to the vast majority of pilots in this country.

[Setron]

Thanks for coming out from under your rock, reptile!
I am quite aware what ALPA is and does, but thanks anyway for the informative advertising!
If you haven't noticed, Tin Tin is quite an extremist but is as much entitled to his opinion as you are to yours, regardless on how much or little thinking was going on before.
As you are out now let me give you some info that you should have had before you pressed the key's:

During my time at AL(when it was still called SAAirlink!) we the "Jet-guys" were the outcasts, the hated ones, the bandits that were out to steal jobs from the more deserving!
The Jetstream-union(APA) was doing everything possible to get us fired and/or our careers put on hold indefinitely. Aim: If they are not fired, then they must be made to quit!
Yeah, the good old days, I can still smell the napalm in the air!
We, from our side tried to get some talks with APA going to get our views across, but were treated like scum and in fact as the enemy.
With no representation and joining ALPA meaning giving voice automatically to APA and through this more power to get our ass kicked, we decided after several failed attempts to be part of it, to start our own representation.
ALPA did't what to hear anything about a separate branch, as there was one already (the jetstream-union called APA)!
And we grew in size rather quickly, cause pilots are not stupid and know when they are abused by a frew individuals.
Solidatity was open for everyone, even the shunned chairman from APA!
ALPA never bothered to find out why they lost members(We are soooo big, we have everything under control, there is nothing else then us anyway,...).
To cut a long story short:
Solidarity won the trust of the majority, despite the bitching and moaning from the old, leftover APAniens which even helped management by leaking information in order to sink the new Solidarity ship!!!

So my friend,.. if you know ****, then don't talk about things, because it might be only **** you are talking!

We did exactly what you said:
If you want an association to work you need to stand together, pitch in when help is required and stay involved. The last point is very important - if the committee starts heading of on their own tangent, it should be swiftly pointed out and corrected - even it means electing a new committee

Read and investigate before you make stupid comments!
I said ALPA just failed in the form of APA, cause they had not the ability or willingness to see that there were pilots in need of some better representation. ALPA is still an organisation that can and will succeed in other theatres of operation (like SAA...)
Now go back under your rock and think a little for a change!

I know you are a "Bill" but try to be a "Steve" some times!;)

[Q4NVS]

And the point of all this "name calling" is what..?

[Setron]

The point is, ... you don't get the point!;)

[reptile]

So my friend,.. if you know ****, then don't talk about things, because it might be only **** you are talking!

Sage advice. Thank you.....I think.

Reptile started name calling by insinuating that the majority of Airlink pilots are stupid because they support Solidarity

Not quite what I said. I implied that the pilots are to blame for failing to stand together and thereby allowing RF's divide and rule tactics to work. The are still to reap the results of going the Solidarity way.

Most pilots are not mediators, negociators(sic) or lawyers

Correct. That is why ALPA employ qualified experts to perform those duties. And you thought the monthly subs are collected for pool parties and pub lunches.


I said ALPA just failed in the form of APA

Wrong. APA failed in the form of APA. Re-read point two of my previous post.

Just to make sure I "know my **** before I talk, or don't talk, about things" (or something to that effect):

Setron got upset because the Airlink pilots - many of whom had many years of loyal service under the belt - tried to stand up to protect their career progression when RF employed a bunch of guys from outside the company to operate the newest and most advanced aircraft in the company?

Put yourself in their shoes for a second and see if you would have reacted differently.

[Q4NVS]

Reptiles point about pilots volenteering is exactly the problem with ALPA in my opinion. Most pilots are not mediators, negociators or lawyers (or spellers) - leave it to the professionals.

Yes, from the above definitely not spellers...

Some of our branch volunteers (as an example) are in fact qualified and experienced Lawyers, Engineers and ex Managers at Multi National Companies.

Rest further in "Confinement..."

:zzz:

[Setron]

Correct suitcaseman!
But we have to remember that the chairman was a kind of professional...
Professional self-centered... worked for him out to about R3-4 m!;)
To go with below that would have been stupid and that he was not!

Hey reppy!
Put yourself in their shoes for a second
I did,and not just for a second but I think they never did that with us!
I was employed on the ERJ135! Up to now it is still OK to take a job without asking everybody else in the company if that is OK!
They got employed or upgraded onto the J41 and never asked me if thats OK!
But I recon thats OK with me!:}
If you believe the grand ideas of a company about expansion and put all your eggs in that basket, then you are plain lazy and deserve no better!

Now I belive that a couple got their jet anyway (146). If the whole thing would still matter careerwise to me, then I would have had to agree, that the 41's got preference on that upgrade. No matter if I wanted onto the 146 or not!
I checked, and no 135er got onto the 146 yet..., time to think again my four leged, crawling friend!

Career protection is good, very good but don't try to f:mad:k someone else over in the process and expect him to say thank you.
Two wrongs don't make a right! (Except in your eyes!)
Oh, I know it might be a little much for you, but here is another thing for you to think about under your rock:
How much did ALPA support me as a member, when I was attacked by the APAniens and my career was in jeopardy?...........:ouch:

Don't get squashed!

[divinehover]

1. Pilot groups affiliated with ALPA-SA are better paid, have better working conditions and are far more protected against industry up's and downs than those who are not.

2. What proffesional services can Solidarity provide other than aiding in salary negotiations?

3. Every major airline (Pilots) in this country is associated with ALPA-SA except Link

4. Every major carrier (Pilots) in the world is associated with IFALPA.

5. This Link-Solidarity story is based on bruised ego's and not been well thought out.

6. Stick with Solidarity and continue to suck the hind tit and please don't moan about it because we all earn more than you, have better perks than you and in general have better jobs than you and therefore don't really care.

7 If you choose to see the error in your ways I'm sure the organisation that supports the vast majority of proffessioanl pilots in this country will welcome you back.

DH
ALPA-SA Supporter.

[flux]

Don't understand the thread if link pilots are leading the way! Believe you fellows were bitching about link ??????????:ugh:

About, upgrades, movement between fleets etc, surely the Union should negotiate that on your behalf? I don't work for an ALPA backed airline, and believe there is nothing wrong with Solidarity, but I think you fellows are pissing into the wind.

Grow up.

[Lord of the flies]

Speculation:
Solidarity" just isn't gonna work for you...
worked for him out to about R3-4 m!
Stick with Solidarity and continue to suck the hind tit
APAniens which even helped management by leaking information in order to sink the new Solidarity ship

Wrong:
Every airline (Pilots) in this country is associated with ALPA-SA except Link
APA failed in the form of APA
far more protected against industry up's and downs

Fact:
Link pilots tried ALPA and it didnt work.

1Time is represented through Solidarity!


Steve:ok:

[Setron]

Hi Steve (Lotf)

Fact:
APAniens which even helped management by leaking information in order to sink the new Solidarity ship

[snotneus]

I think this debate is getting out of hand.

Things did happen in the past that were wrong (during ALPA).
I also recon things JUST happened that are wrong (during Solidarity).

The ALPA structure works well for airlines with a low pilot turnover, link has always, and prob will always have a high turnover. The ALPA structure did not work for link. Solidarity has a different structure and it works ok for link pilots. In the past year we have had quite a few shopstewards, there is thus no continuaty.

So in that respect, ALPA did fail. But it was more the APLA structure than ALPA itself.

It was not just APA that leaked info to management, Solidarity was instructed to settle salary negotiations for nothing less than 18%. Thus you enter at say 22%. Solidarity's opening offer was 18%. (we ended with 11%:=)

As I said earlier; things happened during ALPA days and things happened during Solidarity days. The fact is people no longer have values. If you are negotiating you are not doing it for yourself but for others, the members.

Management sucks (especially JVJ)
SN

[skyshark]

airlink is by far the worst operator that i have had the misfortune to be associated with. They cannot even be classified as a two bit airline. The caa and iosa should have a long hard look at this operation and see how management is detrimental to flight operational safety. To bad i have to consider the negatives of a bond

[divinehover]

Nominations are open to fill vacant positions on the ALPA-SA ExCo. These postions are open to any ALPA-SA member. Should Comair or SAX or Mango nominate a candidate for these positions they stand as much chance of filling the posts as any SAAPA member.

I wonder how many of his colleagues Champagne Lover has nominated in the past.

[Q4NVS]

(read money.....subs..... which could rather be used for SAPA members)

If you know so much about ALPA-SA, you would also know that the branch you are referring to is SAAPA, not SAPA...

:zzz:

[dendronite]

Solidarity is fine

[titaniumspoon]

Everyone suddenly over the moon at Airlink?:E
JVJ been sent to the corner of the classroom with his dunce-hat?
RF convincing the union that the company has no money and on the verge of financial collapse, so don't make any demands for a better life or you (the union) will be solely responsible for all Ailink employees sitting on the side of the road?:{

[nosecone]

RF convincing the union that the company has no money and on the verge of financial collapse, so don't make any demands for a better life or you (the union) will be solely responsible for all Ailink employees sitting on the side of the road?http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/boohoo.gif


The truth is RF does not lie. So i hope that quote of RF's alleged statement is something you have thumbsucked to stir the sh1t. If there is truth in this then we need to find out so we can prepare ourselves for bankrupsy.

[Avi8tor]

Hmmm....Airlink has been going broke since 2001.

He keeps buying aircraft that have the highest fuel consumption per seat mile in their class. Then RF wonders that the problem is?

[Doodlebug2]

All airlines, charter outfits, etc. are stepping stones to the BIG ONE. It appears that the smaller airlines like Link and 1time are larger stepping stones across the treacherous pond, and need the likes of a Solidarity. A quick-fix-for-now, sort-the-pension-out-later type! Larger airlines (in the Safrican context) are smaller stepping stones to the BIG ONE, and seem to do well with ALPA-SA.

Use the union that fluffs out your tail feathers, but don't forget that it's your choice at the end of the year! May your stones not be too slippery....and remember, stones can be treated with beer!

[Avi8tor]

The UNION is not ALPA or SOLIDARITY. The union is the rank and file members. Your unbrella federation is of no use if the guys and girls on the coalface are not prepared to stand up and be counted.

Forget the finger pointing and stand together. And make sure the management knows that the 'wekkas' are ready to do what it takes to improve conditions.

Trust me, neither JvJ or RF will have jobs if the aircraft are all on C ramp while the boys and girls are all enjoying beers and burgers in the parking lot at Safair.

[snotneus]

At last, some sence! Right on the button. Managenents motto is divide and conquor. They do it very well. We need to stand 2gether. We need to push jvj out.

[ARENDIII]

I am afraid that I have not the time to read all these posts, however valuable they may all be.
Someone said something about Safair-well, I am employed by this outfit right now and will check if my tip is in the bank tomorrow.
They have defaulted once in 14 years and then it turned out to be a bank problem.
If you woul'd like to fly REAL AIRPLANES and associate with REAL PILOTS-I'm talking the 4 engine kind-not 4 APU's-then contact Safair for a real job.
Round dials and real people-when you get out of the office that is.
Keep a good lookout- Arend III.
Colonel-Hope you are well!!!

[308GT4]

"REAL" airplanes/ "REAL" pilots
Round dials
4 engines (no doubt 4 long haul) {By the way, propellers are for boats!}
"I sometimes know my co-pilots name"
"Nobody fiddles with MY fuel figures"

Now, I wander. Do you ever make mistakes? I would imagine from the above mentioned that you "Don't really think so" huh?

Imagine being an unwitting passenger behind this cockpit door...........

Do they regularly buy new brooms to sweep the floor in front of where you walk?

I'd give my eye-teeth to be a fly on the wall when CRM ever gets discussed in confidence with you.
:D:D:D

[ARENDIII]

Yes Sir,
I am afraid that you are incorrect.
I make mistakes every day, that is why we have multi crew-it's a human condition.
New brooms? I certainly hope so-and the only people that have any influence on my fuel calc's are the FE and the FO-My decision is still final.
As for CRM-it was called Airmanship in my day although a lot of people are making a lot of money by changing the name.I will admit that it has contributed to flight safety.Nothing will ever take the place of basic airmanship-something that shoud have been instilled in your first flight briefing.
That notwithstanding, a little DF is in order-and that is not direction finding.

[titaniumspoon]

NOSECONE
The truth is RF does not lie. So i hope that quote of RF's alleged statement is something you have thumbsucked to stir the sh1t. If there is truth in this then we need to find out so we can prepare ourselves for bankrupsy.
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RF does not lie? Interesting.
Thumbsucked to stir? Me stir??? Never!!!


By the way AREND III, :ooh: PLEASE stay at SAFAIR????

[Goffel]

Real pilot's fly Herc's....:E.

Ah the sound of a Herc starting up and then taxiing out to the threshhold....ah, what a noise.

Watching that baby flying along at tree-top level.....how I dream......

Oh well, dream I will have to......but at least I can hear them start up and taxi from my bedroom.

Now Arend tell your your chief pilot to get up off his asssss and give me a job.

Goffel.... :8