twin autorotation.

[griffothefog]

Anybody unfortunate enough to have had to do a full auto to the ground in a twin engine helicopter? Must be a small club, but I can start the membership with a BO 105 :eek: Line up you heroes......

[WylieCoyote]

I'm not a hero and hopefully won't be, but I have got my 105 conversion in a couple of weeks and I'd be interested to hear the story behind your entry into the club.

[BlenderPilot]

When I got my intial Bell 212 course here in Mexico, it included a straight in, 180 and Hover autos to touchdown, and autoing in the 212 is just like a 206, a couple of operators around here still do touchdown autos in twins.

The other day I rode in a A109E while the other pilot filying did a couple of touchdowns to runway, made me a little nervous at first, but then I realized it was a normal auto like in other helicopters, drops pretty good.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Wasn't there an RAF Chinook which did a LL auto during Telic and landed without a scratch?

[gulliBell]

There are cases of main drive shaft failure in 412 that have resulted in complete loss of drive and forced landing autorotation (one noteable in Australia about 13 years ago with a new 412 on a test flight, aircraft was badly damaged).

(For those who aren't familiar with 212/412 the PT6T twin-pac engine has a single power output shaft from a combining gearbox driving the main rotor).

[Brian Abraham]

During a base check in a 76 doing the usual auto, flare, level, pull, rotor droop WAY DOWN, and ended up with a very nice full auto to the ground. The T & C'er (one of natures true gentlemen, Bruce Townsend) apparently made it his practice to pull this on all captains on a once only basis (failing to put the throttles up in the flare). Displayed a lot of faith I thought seeing that there was no pre brief (other than this will be the usual auto exercise blah, blah, blah), even though he said he only pulled the stunt if he was absolutely sure of success.

[Shawn Coyle]

Just make sure you put the gear down, if you have wheels that retract...

[PO dust devil]

Brian is right, Bruce is the gents gent. BCT was prolly the best C&T guy I can think of. Thanks Bruce if you're reading. What a shame he hasn't spread his knowledge wider.

Mine worked great with the comment that I was indeed a "late flarer"! He held his nerve, didn't touch the controls but kept a pretty good eye on things on the way down as I recall.

DD

[spinwing]

Gulli ....

Are you refering to "Cookies" fine effort in Newcastle ??? (in the "Classic")

:eek:

[gulliBell]

Yeah, that might be the one...but don't think it was a Classic, should have been an SP or HP if it was new. We all had a bit of a laugh in the crew room, how it was described in Helinews as a perfect example of an autorotation in a twin-engine helicopter. Flare it at the bottom until the tail hits the ground and then level out. I don't think BCT ever taught them that way. But as they say, any landing you walk away from is a good one, and they all walked away from that one.

[SASless]

If I was still a drinking man....I would have a few and recount a Chinook ride down the side of Gia Rhe Mountain northeast of Saigon.

A little over a year ago...as I was gazing at the mountain as we rode by in a tour bus....a friend leaned over and said...."Sure doesn't look ten miles high from here does it?"

While dropping off a slingload on the mountain top pad (room for slingloads or a Chinook (barely), one engine gave up the ghost and the other decided to demonstate what full blown compressor stall was all about....and off down the mountain we went heading for the rice fields at the bottom.

It turned out fine....but for what seemed like ages...the glide angle matched the countour of the mountain leaving about a one foot gap between the aft blades and the trees.

Aye Gawd Lad! It would have been quite a sight if we had gone into the trees nose down going 60-70 knots!

I think I will add a bit of hooch to my morning coffee now that I think about it.

[ericferret]

I seem to remember that one of our instructors was converting spanish pilots to the BO 105.
As the spaniards english was limited an interpreter sat behind them.

Instructor, Shut down 2

Interpreter, Shut down both.

Just the whistling of the wind and a blur in the instructors seat trying to get a restart on one of the engines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Troglodita]

Griffo,

Ask any of your older colleagues if they remember Bob (William Robert but don't call him Billy Bob) Hall's night auto onto the Oman Royal Flight Club lawn back about 97 in a 212 during a RF cocktail party.

He had been suckered by the French Client into visiting one more site up on Sayq than was prudent then hit a line squall on the way back to Seeb.

End result - Darkness and fumes only in the tank and not a lot of filling stations or places to land as you know.

One engine flamed out about 3 miles short of Seeb and the second quit on short final. Bob aimed for a brightly lit green lawn area.

Perfect auto and one of the Royal Flight chaps sent a waiter with a tray of drinks to greet the pilot and Pax (and their girlfriends ee aw ee aw!) once the rotors had stopped.

Probably the last time Bob got suckered!

Trog

[griffothefog]

Trog,
Check p.m's.

[oldbeefer]

Used to be a 6 monthly check years ago on the Wessex. One of the old and bold Master Pilots used to do it without using the lever (light weight aircraft) - just flare at the bottom until the tail wheel touched, then rotate about the tail until the mains hit - piece of cake! Later on Pumas, pilot ran out of fuel in Portugal and flew an EOL to a parade square (yes, he nearly made it before the fuel ran out) and broke the tail boom off on touchdown. Walked away from the wreckage though, so I suppose it was a good one!

[itcameoffinmyhand]

About 10 years ago we had gone to Germany for a few days refresher training on the 105 simulator at Donnerworth(excuse spelling) and on completion the guys took the five of us up for full auto experience. over the airfield they just chopped both throttles and away we went. they didn't know us from adam. Excellent day they auto just like a gazelle, we remarked that we could just imagine someone coming here to UK and being allowed to do that. Not!

[FH1100 Pilot]

The 105s I flew auto'd like a gazelle, alright...a cement gazelle.

[griffothefog]

Well said FH 1100,
Built like a brick ****house...drops like a brick ****house :eek: But..... like the Gazelle, is a real lady on the vinegar strokes :E

[Agaricus bisporus]

I am surprised that anyone imagines an auto in a twin is any diffrent to an auto in a single, or indeed a triple. The number of engines is irrelevant.
What is important is the characteristics of the type. Some singles auto like bricks - Wasp, H500, Robbo while others float like thistledown - B206L.

Inertia makes autos easy, not the number of engines.

And the thistledownest of them all - that I have flown, anyway, is the mighty Chinook which is embarassing in the amount of run-on it needs as it flares, flare, flares and floats forever - if the Sim is to be believed. Perhaps too much inertia is as bad as too little?

[griffothefog]

Agaricus Bisporus......
Point of thread, guess you don't qualify then? :{

[Karl Bamforth]

A couple of years ago an RAF Puma pilot was on a check ride with instructor.

The instructor pulled both engines to ground idle to simulate double engine failure.

At the pre determined height above the ground, the instructor said "OK thats low enough, climb away".

As the pilot pulled collective it quickly became apparent that both engines were still at idle.

They managed to get a mayday call out just before contacting the ground, it rolled over suffering severe damage but all crew scrambled clear with minor injuries.

[oldbeefer]

As the pilot pulled collective it quickly became apparent that both engines were still at idle.



So the crewman really IS only there to open and close the doors!

[soggyboxers]

I've done them many a time for training in the past, but nowadays we tend to just do them in the simulator as it's less potentially dangerous and destructive.

It's funny that despite having done many engine-off landings for training purposes in single engine helicopters I've never had an engine failure in a single, and whilst most of the time we don't train for total engine failures in multi-engine machines, I've suffered 3 double engine failures (none in the last 30 years though, so maybe things are getting better) :}

[Brian Abraham]

I've suffered 3 double engine failures
Tell us more soggy. Although you seem to lead a charmed life thus far remind me to never fly with you. :p

[tecpilot]

About 10 years ago we had gone to Germany for a few days refresher training on the 105 simulator at Donnerworth(excuse spelling) and on completion the guys took the five of us up for full auto experience. over the airfield they just chopped both throttles and away we went. they didn't know us from adam. Excellent day they auto just like a gazelle, we remarked that we could just imagine someone coming here to UK and being allowed to do that. Not!

Have down more than hundred full (training) autos on BO 105 without problems, all i could say is the "brick ****house" is doing such autos without problems. BTW, BO105 and BK117 are the last twins i have done full touchdown autos. At first the desk jockeys stopped it on BK117 some years ago and meantime we are doing no twin touchdown autos anymore. Yeah, thats the right way to train the young pilots... Found some younger pilots in the last time without any touchdown auto experience. Seems to me this group is growing?