Indian AF VIP purchase 12 x AW101?

[chopper2004]

Just read somewhere that the Indians may have picked the AW101 for a requirement of 12 x VIP helos.

AgustaWestland Wins India VIP Helo Battle - Pakistan Defence Forum (http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence-military/13832-agustawestland-wins-india-vip-helo-battle.html)

[GoodGrief]

"...protection against missiles and nuclear, biological and chemical threats."

I have heard of bullet proof helicopter mods, but being immune to an atomic bomb is cool:ugh:

[Two_Squirrels]

I'm looking forward to the "They should have bought S-92s, they are much better at withstanding nuclear blasts" thread.

[widgeon]

Sounds like being able to park their hummers closer to the doors was the clincher.

[helimarshaller]

Interesting how this has been broadcast on a Pakistan Defence Forum!!!

[Lt.Fubar]

"...protection against missiles and nuclear, biological and chemical threats." This only means air filters and keeping pressure in cabin higher than on the outside. Just like in any military equipment.

[heli1]

This is old news...I read it in Helicopter International in July....The final decision has yet to be made though so expect Sikorsky and the US State Dept to cry "foul".

[ecureilx]

I thought the indians had a serious allergy to AW products after the last debacle with the WG 30, till they were all withdrawn from use, including those from Pavan Hans, and dumped for scrap value ... :}

Good news, and AW101 is a good and safe helicopter. Current VIP fleet is mostly MiL I guess.

[iuk1963]

12 units sold to India accoding to Financial Times

FT.com / Companies / Aerospace & Defence - Finmeccanica in 12-helicopter deal (http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/32cbd30a-2cad-11df-8abb-00144feabdc0.html)

[Hell Man]

Obama may have suspended the order on Marine One but New Delhi have signed up for 12 of the 101s for their Presidential and VVIP Flight ...

Govt quietly inks Rs 3,726cr deal for 12 VVIP helicopters - India - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Govt-quietly-inks-Rs-3726cr-deal-for-12-VVIP-helicopters/articleshow/5673025.cms)

http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/portland/971/boxart/revellmono/revell_eh-101.jpg

Govt quietly inks Rs 3,726cr deal for 12 VVIP helicopters
TNN, Mar 12, 2010, 12.33am IST

NEW DELHI: VVIPs sure like to travel in plush and secure comfort. After getting three desi versions of US President's 'Air Force One', the Indian President and PM will now also get 12 swanky helicopters for VVIP travel on the lines of 'Marine One'.

The defence ministry has quietly inked a Rs 3,726-crore deal to acquire 12 three-engined AW-101 helicopters from AgustaWestland, a unit of Italian major Finmeccanica, for IAF's elite Communication Squadron, which ferries around the President, PM and other VVIPs. "All the 12 helicopters will be delivered in three years or so," said a source.

The ministry as usual remained silent about the deal, leave alone the exact contours of it, despite repeated claims made by defence minister A K Antony of 'total transparency'.

The Cabinet Committee on Security apparently gave the nod for the exorbitant helicopter deal, despite objections from the finance ministry, due to 'security concerns' raised by the Special Protection Group as well as IAF.

The government's VVIP helicopter contract comes after the Rs 727-crore deal for five mid-size Embraer 135BJ Legacy jets in September 2003 and the Rs 937-crore contract for three Boeing Business Jets (BBJs) in October 2005, with advanced self-protection suites to guard against missiles and other threats.

The new helicopters will replace ageing Russian-origin Mi-8s and Mi-17s in the Communication Squadron, just like the Legacy jets have replaced the old HS-748 Avros and the BBJs the two 737-200 aircraft bought in 1983.

While not as hi-tech as Barack Obama's "Marine One", the call sign of the US Marine Corps helicopter which ferries the US President, the Indian AW-101 helicopters will have self-defence systems like missile-approach warners, chaff and flare dispensers and directed infra-red electronic counter-measures to protect the VVIPs on board.

The AW-101 helicopters were pitted against the American Sikorsky's S-92 Superhawks during extensive field trials held in 2008, which the US firm later claimed were unfairly biased against it.

[Yellow & Blue Baron]

This is a substantial order and one which has been under the radar (for the most part) until now.

Well done AgustaWestland.

Can anyone comment on the operational reliability of the 101 - are three engines truly better than two - if so should be be looking to produce helicopters with even more engines - say four?

[iuk1963]

Yellow and Blue, are you serious?.. :bored: (in terms of number of engines I meen)

[prehar]

3 engines are better than 2 specially if you are at high altitudes or in IMC conditions...but the days of 3 engines too seem numbered

[dangermouse]

as you only lose 33% not 50% of your installed power. that kinda helps with the certification authorities and Cat A perf

DM

[widgeon]

IN terms off efficiency I am sure that 2 high power engines are more efficient than 3 mediium power engines ( a lot of extra weight to carry around ). It would be interesting to know why they chose 3 engines in the first place. I thnk the Chinook with only 2 engines has reasonable high altitude performance. Interesting the the CH53E has 3 engines ( 3 *7500) vs (3*2312) for the EH101. I wonder what the 101 performance would be with 2 Chinook engines in place ( 2*3750 )

[dangermouse]

Pretty much the same until OEI then ooops!!

You also save weight by having a MGB that doesnt need to cope with a massive OEI single input requirement

The three engines also allow you to cruise with one shutdown for increased endurance/range. Difficult to do with only 2 donks

The Chinook benefits by having a 1960s structure, 1960s crashworthiness and no tail rotor (all the power goes to lift).

The MI-26 of course has two HONKING great engines (11400 SHP each) which kind of puts things into perspective!!

DM

[Hilife]

The following summary of Worldwide Helicopter Offshore Accident Causes observed that in around 1.2 million hours of operation by some 1,440 helicopters between 1997 and 1998, there was not one Engine related accident in Multi-Engine Helicopters and as I don’t know of any 3-engined Offshore Oil and Gas helicopters, statistics would suggest that Multi-Engined operations with just the two donks is clearly not proving to be a safety issue. ;)

http://www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/300.pdf

[dangermouse]

the regulations still require you to design an aircraft that copes with an engine failure (regradless of how likely that is to happen) and that is reflected in the guaranteed performance required by Cat A operations So the multiple engine argument still holds. Otherwise every helicopter would be single engined

DM

[Shawn Coyle]

If memory serves me right, when the EH-101 was being designed there were no engines that would give good single performance for the weight of the airframe. Consider that a remaining engine would have to put out a pretty awesome amount of power if the other engine failed. Two engines remaining out of three would allow a pretty comfortable margin.
At the time engine failures were more common than they are now, and so this was a driving force.
And then there was always the option of shutting one down and cruising on two - the mission of the 101 at the time seemed to be more of a SH-60B loitering type than a Sea King dunking mission. It all seemed to make sense to everyone at the time.
The 101 was conceived of long before the RTM 322 was dreamed of - remember this was back in the late 1970's - early 80's.

[Yellow & Blue Baron]

IUK1963 - The concept of three engines I find interesting against the backdrop of developments in airliners and I wondered whether in heli dynamics there was some advantage to having more engines because the 101 seems to be going against the prevailing trend.

[nimby]

I recall an early VVIP flight in from London.

One engine had to be shut down en-route (suspected gas leak, I think).

The Journos on board knew absolutely nothing until after the flight ... and then all wrote the same article about three-engined safety!

:)