Sikorsky Helicopter Seats, Instruments of Torture?!

[floatsarmed]

All right, that's it, time for a public dummy spit.
What is it that makes helicopter designers think they can put a $2.50 seat in a multi-million dollar helicopter. I refer to the otherwise great S76 which other than the seat design is generally a top machine but...... The bloody seats are medieval torture instruments. It's just as well its a touring job because it takes most of my time off to get the not so old back straight again. My car, which is not that flash, has seats which are 10 times better than the S76. :eek: Hopefully the next incarnation of the 76 will have better thought out and more modern seats and if the designers just stick the old ones in again they need to be charged with some sort of crime against humanity!:ok:

[leading edge]

It just shows we are all different.

I have 4k hours plus on the S76 and have no problems but the 2k hours on the 332 before that caused me disc bulge problems requiring medical attention.

Have you thought about changing types?

[Harry76]

I recently flew a brand new c++ and to my pleasant surprise, it had very comfortable seat in it. I do agree however that every other S76 I've flown (and there's been a few. Every model except the 'B') had very uncomfortable seats in them. Let's hope they keep putting the good seats in all the new ones and that this one wasn't a 'one off'.

P.S. I still think the the AS350 has the most comfortable seat that I've flown to date.

[3D CAM]

Try strapping a SAR 139 to your arse!:ugh:Front or back seats,:mad:awful!!!
3D

[helimutt]

Only flown 700+hours in the S76C but my back gives me more trouble now than ever before. I used to work in ships engine rooms, up and down ladders, pretty physical work much of the time, and never ever had a back problem in 17years. Just returned from two week holiday, nearly 3 weeks out of the seat, and my back was fine. One week in, my back giving me trouble again. Maybe it's just the sitting on my ar&e that's doing it?
As for just changing types?? Now that is funny. we don't even have any new a/c on order for our base AFAIK, never mind the fact that the contract renewal will probably state new technology required for 2010.

Oh well, mustn't grumble.

[Horror box]

So its not just the S92 seat that is sending people in their droves to the doc then! Someone in Sikorsky needs to start spending 8 hrs in the seats they are sending out methinks!

[Dan Reno]

All models since development of the S70's cockpit seats were built/designed to accomadate the '98 percentile' man's control/use of the cockpit. In addition, crash worthiness and ergonomics were applied to the mix along with egress from a fully stroked seat following a crash. Again, the design is for the '98 percentile man' with the other 2 percent (I guess) having minor problems. I suspect the ultimate seat would come from an 18 wheeler Kentworth and if you own the craft, why not try it? I understand milk bottle crates were a little hard on the butt in very early models by Igor.

[helimutt]

but surely the seats should have some lumbar support?? Most, if not all of the 76 drivers at our base have to use a lumbar cushion. Funny thing is, the company pays for them.

[rogerk]

Anything made by BELL !!
The 47 must be top of the dead bum/back ache list.
:{:{

[Shawn Coyle]

HH-65 topped my list for dreadful seats.
But this does raise a good point - why do airline pilot seats seem to not give any problems, but helicopter seats do?
My chiropractor says that using an inversion device (hanging upside down) for 10 minutes a day will fix most back problems. The devices are now pretty cheap and easy to get - anyone else have any experience with them?

[handbag]

you guys need to get some stretch balls, seriously. A few minutes rolling yourself out on a gym ball makes all the difference !

[JohnDixson]

After 39 years flying at Sikorsky, I finally came to the conclusion that the responsibility for the torturous seats rested in a Conspiracy. Not sure whether it was the Illuminati, Yale's Skull and Bones, The Rosicrucians, or whoever, but it was effective, and resistant to continuous efforts by the pilots to correct things.

Over the years we finally got the internal human factors engineers to agree that there was a significant issue here, but then we ran up against the seat manufacturers, and they had no end of reasons why conflicting seat requirements resulted in the present seat : QED, thats it, take it or leave it and no further discussion. Hence my suspicion regarding a conspiracy!

By the way, money isn't the issue here: big discomfort comes at big prices.

Looking to the immediate future, one would suppose that the implementation of fly-by-wire control systems, as long as the designers avoid what Nick Lappos calls the "Electric Horse" approach, and in this case, that is keeping the cyclic controls exactly similar to existing mechanical designs, will allow seat designers greater freedom in the lower cushion/thigh support area.

Thanks,
John Dixson

[Canuck Guy]

They aren't the greatest, but they are like Lazy Boy recliners compared to Bell seats. Going to take my spine all winter to recover from a summer in a Bell.:ugh:

[tomstheword]

try a 'roho' for arse support, they are air filled cushions designed for people in wheelchairs to prevent pressure sores. they are expensive if you buy from a shop ($600+) but you can get cheap ones from ebay if your lucky. you can either sit them on top of the existing seat (if set up properly they wont sit you any higher at all) or replace the aircraft seat all together (yes I expect to be lectured) but the difference is amazing, it reduces fatigue to the point they should be compulsory.

ok lets have it

[Graviman]

My chiropractor says that using an inversion device (hanging upside down) for 10 minutes a day will fix most back problems. The devices are now pretty cheap and easy to get - anyone else have any experience with them?


Shawn, your chiropractor is spot on. I did my back in after various mishaps (including being knocked of a motorbike). They sell for less than £100 from Argos UK, and are worth every penny. You have to relax for more than a minute to let the muscle tone reflex deactivate, and then you are only a couple of clicks away from back heaven...

[fishtits]

Haven't used it but the ROHO (http://www.therohostore.com/Departments/Comfort-Products/Aviation-Seat-Cushion.aspx) aviation cushion does look pretty good - See they make one for motorcycles too & I've heard good things about them.

Aviation cushion at $195.95

Cheap price to pay for a cosseted ar$e?!!?

:D

[SASless]

Handbag,

At the risk of being crude....a few hours in a Bristow tracked 212 will provide you with the stretch balls gratis. The only thing missing is the wooden paddle and rubber band.:uhoh:

[floatsarmed]

Harry76, are the C++ seats different to the ones fitted to A+'s. The C models I have flown are the same as the A's. Maybe they got changed when it went to C+ onwards?

[Old Skool]

Yes if i remember correctly the C++ seats are of the stroking type, whereas the A++ was just a regular 'iron maiden'. The stroking seats though were pinned because of the nitrogen (i think) bottles under the seats.

[Um... lifting...]

HH-65 topped my list for dreadful seats.

The seat in a B206 or 407 is sheer luxury compared to the HH-65A. HH-60s and AW139 pilot seats aren't even in the same galaxy. All 3155 hours in the HH-65 A were excruciating. For one, no lumbar support, no thigh support, and in forward flight, the seat itself declined downward a few degrees, so you had to strap yourself in to keep from sliding out of the seat and typically also held yourself in place with your legs in all attitudes besides the hover... continuously. If you were lucky enough to sit in the left seat, the pedals were offset from the centerline of the seat about 4" to the right... sheer pleasure... old blindfolded HH-65 pilots tend to walk in circles as a result.

[Gomer Pylot]

I have spent about 13,000 hours in helicopter seats, and I have never sat for a second in a comfortable one. The S76 seats are bad, but not the worst. The original 206 seats, for example, were just pieces of foam rubber with a covering, held in place with Velcro, both the seat and back. No seat I've ever been in had close to adequate lumbar or thigh support. I think the AS350 was about the best, but that was still painful. Pleading cost and design issues is simply dishonest - they could be made much more comfortable even within the existing design limitations, but there is simply no one who cares in the design hierarchies. The seats seem fine for a half hour or so, so why worry about any improvements??? :ugh:

[albatross]

I think all executives and engineers at all helicopter manufacturers and operators should have the helicopter seats at their desks and in the board rooms. No Choice!:E

I predict vast improvement in seat design in short order.:ok:

[Mr Toad]

Guys you're all pissing in the wind. NO seat designer sees helicopter pilot comfort as part of his priorities. I complained bitterly to Nick about the C+ seats but fact is there wasn't a lot he could promise...

Same thing with cockpit noise. Waste of good pee complaining about either of them. We only drive them, we don't pay for them.

Go figure.

[ChopperFAN]

Is there any chance you guys could post some pics of different helicopter seats to me, I do some motor trimming and furniture upholstery in Adelaide, South Australia

Are their rules to modifying the seat cushions or covers to helicopter seats? I wouldnt mind having a look at them to see if i can design something more comfortable

Pics of seats and how you would like lumber where would help also

It seems off to me that they expect anyone, to sit in a poorly designed seat while handling a multi milliondollar machine... Thats stupid

The guy flying the helicopter is the most important...

I can make lumber cushions with all foam types or grades in density, but if its possible to make a seat to suit types, that straps into the standard seat frame im sure we could make it look good and work

I might be talking rubbish but im sure its important, I may be able to help

Simon