Best single for a long flight?

[Bronx]

A question from a helo pilot for the fixed-wing experts in this forum.

If you were planning a long flight (6000 nm), and your route required several hours over hostile terrain with little or no emergency services available, and you could choose any single you wanted, which airplane would you choose and why?

Speed is important but that might be outweighed by other factors.


B.

[IO540]

It would have to be a turboprop - reliability-wise there is no contest. Also it doesn't need avgas.

[ssangyongs]

If you are on budget, pick Cirrus SR 20 or 22. It has speed. consume around 11 gallon per hour. Lean assist. Roomy inside. Great for passengers on board. And FAST.

Hostile terrain? No worry. CAPS is there. Fly airways.

Pilatus PC 12 if you have loads of dosh. Much more comfortable. Pressurized. More loads, more heads, higher cruising altitude. FASTER.

I assume that your 6000 nm journey does has a few stops for refuelling.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Polly Vacher did this pretty well in a PA28-235c (I think that was the exact model), and felt happy enough to keep flying it afterwards.

G

[BartV]

Pilatus PC12

[Pilotdom]

Yep, PC12. I would consider a Caravan aswell for those unprepared strips.

[IO540]

Polly Vacher did well indeed but her flights were much more of a massive logistics exercise than flying, or navigation. Same is true of all long trips like that.

So what can one do to make it less complicated?

The OP has given away very little :) However there isn't a 6000nm trip on which you will find avgas all along - unless you fly in circles around Bembridge :) So, a turboprop is the only way. (Thielerts are finished for now, and anyway the engine would probably not last 6000nm).

There must be an operating cost issue. If the OP did not care about money he would have chartered a 737.

A PC12 or a TBM700 has a DOC of some £500/hour. The only cheaper options are a Meridian or a Jetprop but neither of those are OK for dirt strips - if indeed dirt strip capability is required. A Caravan is maybe another option but it won't get above any real weather.

[LH2]

Not an expert by any means, but why a PC-12 and not a PC-6? It's cheaper to operate, at least just as tough, and tailwheel (thus more character :ok:)

On the other hand, if we're talking light singles in the spamcan category, then there are a number of them (think Super Cub or a Mousquetaire) which can be modified for MOGAS.

I'm curious to know what Mr. Bronx is up to :)

[BackPacker]

Or, on the low end of the scale, something with a Rotax 912, 912S or 914 engine. That means you can use mogas, which is available everywhere. (Assuming the rest of the fuel system is mogas-rated, and no legal restrictions forbid its use.)

There are aircraft with these engines that do very impressive speeds for such low horsepowers - the MCR4 for instance I believe cruises at 135 knots.

That's still about 45 hours flying in still air for 6000 miles but the total fuel consumption will only be (rough calculation) 750 liters or so.

So that solves the fuel availability issue. Furthermore, the 912 and 912S have a very good reliability record. I don't know how well it compares to turboprops, but they're easily on par with Lycosauri, and better than Thielert.

And of course, with the rather low cruise speed also comes a low landing speed, increasing survivability in a crash landing in hostile terrain.

Guy named Thomas Scherer flew his Rotax 912-powered homebuilt Europa across the Atlantic. Twice. Once via the "traditional" Greenland-Iceland route, and once via the Azores to Newfoundland direct - 13 hours non-stop I believe. That hostile enough for you? (His website :: This Site is Under Construction :: (http://www.thomas.scherer.com) seems to be down though but if you Google for N81EU you might find stuff in Googles cache.)

And only slightly outside the OP specs, Tecnam now does a Rotax-powered twin. A MEP rating on that one would probably be easier and cheaper to get than a SET rating.

[FullyFlapped]

A Silver Eagle. Basically a pressurised Cessna 210 with a turboprop. Faster than a Caravan (much), unbelievable short strip capability, ceiling of 28000' etc etc.

The canine's dangly do-dahs .....

[barit1]

A Mustang, or better yet an Enforcer.
http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/piper_pa-48.jpg

[MartinCh]

I'm just pilot-in-the-making (over couple years) but I do fancy both FW and RW on top of 'recreational flying' aka non-powered. I'm with BackPacker.

I admired some gliders on http://www.pipistrel.si and there's that light sport 'tour glider' ie two seater with around 20-25 glide ratio (can't remember, it's all there), basically, Cessna's new SkyCatcher category but I believe it's superior to C162.

I've seen the same (to me) airframe marketed in the US pilot mags as Remos G3. I've also read somewhere it's actually German-build, so Pipistrel may be somehow related. Either way, with Rotax 912 or 912S, avgas/mogas, almost unbeatable fuel consumption for the capabilities, etc etc.
In theory you could do with handful refuelling stops on 6000nm :ok: It's late to calculate km to nm and back. :zzz:

Right, it's not pressurised, obviously, but it's basically glider. Can either be trike or TW model.

The website mentions RTW or serious XC (cross-continent :)) flying. Think one of the pilot was/is Czech.

I'm surely yet to befriend pressurised piston twins or TPs, but for the flying I'd love to do RTW, this would be it. Plus on a budget as well.

barit1, that machine looks damn mean. Haven't seen that one before. Must have been interesting to fly that one in it's hey-day times (if one's in the mil)

[hollywood285]

Anything other than a Caravan is a no brainer if you have the funds!!:ok:

[SNS3Guppy]

It really depends on your mission, doesn't it?

[micromalc]

Take a STEMME S10vt and you could glide most of the way.(50-1 ratio)
Just kidding, though it would be a unique way of doing it.

[Billredshoes]

"Anything other than a Caravan is a no brainer if you have the funds!!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif"

I am sorry to say the ONLY 1 MUST be the AN2 land any were has its own onboard fuel pumping system for fuel drums put any think in it / sleep in it very simple to maintain or repair. Slow so you can enjoy all the views !!!

[skua]

I take the points about turboprops and mogas. However if a piston single and fuel consumption are not OK, then how about a PA32?

A consideration on long flights over water has to be ease of access to a liferaft, and a PA 32 has plenty of space, partic if you take some seats out. On second thoughts a design with doors both sides may be better....

[Keygrip]

Boeing 777 with one turned off.

Why? Good avionics, cabin crew with coffee and hot meals, take some friends with me, large fuel tanks, plenty of survival equipment.

[172driver]

Really depends largely where you want to go. 6000 miles could be a trip around the US or a cross-Africa flight. Somewhat different kettle of fish......

[englishal]

I flew my Rallye about 6000miles last year....

In the entire year ;)

[Bronx]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

172driver
A cross-Africa flight.
West side including across the Sahara.

B.

[vintagemember]

Aeronca C3 with long range tanks and a blind flying panel. Did London to Capetown in 1936.

[silvereagle]

If you decide on the Caravan, I have two and would be happy to supply you with a pilot. Just let me know.

[old,not bold]

In my experience of long flights the Percival Prentice was quite good; rumbled along on cruise RPM/moderate boost, very stable, all the way LGW to Sharjah, quite a long time ago. Some downsides, like the occasional quietness when the engine stopped in cloud because it didn't like dampness or caught fire, bit slow, drank fuel, but in general not a bad aircraft on a cold day. There's one at Coventry.

Mind you, that's my only experience of a long flight in a light aircraft. A grown-up spamcan could be boring, I think. What about one of the "microlights"? Now that would be fun. 450Kg for you, fuel and the aircraft. Should be enough. Mogas, too, I think, on a Rotax?

Think outside the box!

[barit1]

If operating on mogas is a requirement, one cannot beat a Wasp or Wasp Jr. - and for sheer comfort and reliability go in a DGA!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/barit1/thext-1.jpg

One flew the London-to-Victoria race (1973??)

[BackPacker]

If refueling en-route might be a problem, you can always just do the whole distance in one go, taking off with all the fuel on-board that you need.

However, the only single engine that I know of that's capable of flying those distances and beyond is now on permanent static display at the Smithsonian.

Virgin Atlantic GlobalFlyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Atlantic_Global_Flyer)

[172driver]

172driver
A cross-Africa flight.
West side including across the Sahara.

OK, we're getting somewhere (must say, I kinda liked the 777 with one donk switched off suggestion ;)!)

Now, Africa, west side, you'll run into the Avgas issue. However, this is doable with some planning. If you can lay your hand on one, I'd suggest a C210 with the tip tanks (endurance AFAIK +/- 10 hours) and pre-positioned fuel. You'll be fine into mid/southern Morocco, then you'll need to organize the drums. Mate of mine did just that - PM me for his details. Avgas is avail again from Namibia on, possibly (need to check) Cameroon. Also, in a 210 you can land pretty much anywhere, and there are maintenance shops along the way that can fix things.

[IO540]

The problem is that somebody cannot hope to post a few vague lines and expect intelligent answers.

[RotaryWingB2]

Quest Kodiak.

Questaircraft.com | Quest Aircraft Company (http://www.questaircraft.com/index.php?filename=kodiak.php)

A friend just flew one back from the states to the Fatherland, and loves it.:ok:

[scooter boy]

The Mooney Ovation 2 GX.
2400nm range - 160kts at 10gph.
Svc celing FL200
192kts max cruise if you're in a hurry.
Unbeatable range and economy, you would only have to stop twice on your 6000nm trip.

Just make sure you take a large pee container.

Nothing else comes close

SB

[IO540]

2400nm range - 160kts at 10gph

Amazing.

What altitude (ISA assumed) is the 160kt TAS?

[scooter boy]

IO, best performance for me seems to be up at FL150-160.
I know this means O2 but the fuel saving is far more significant than the cost of the O2.
SB

[larssnowpharter]

Personal choice for the trip described: Helio Stallion.

1000 mile range with standard tanks; very useful payload, 175knts cruise and the ability to land on a postage stamp.

If budget an issue get an old Courier

[F900EX]

Would love to know how you squeeze 2400nm out of an Ovation

"QUOTE: The Mooney Ovation 2 GX.
2400nm range - 160kts at 10gph.
Svc celing FL200
192kts max cruise if you're in a hurry.
Unbeatable range and economy, you would only have to stop twice on your 6000nm trip.
Just make sure you take a large pee container.
Nothing else comes close
SB"

[rauxaman]

>>>Some downsides, like the occasional quietness when the engine stopped in cloud because it didn't like dampness or caught fire<<<

A master stroke in under-statement!!!:D

[flyboy2508]

Piper Cherokee Six - great aircraft and got us around the world, 24,000 nm. Take the back 4 seats out and drop in a ferry tank and you have range over 2,000nm

[IO540]

With a ferry tank you can have all the range you want, but you need a permission for every flight because the plane has a special mod and is probably loaded outside its CofA. Not very practical.

[IFollowRailways]

Take a STEMME S10vt and you could glide most of the way.(50-1 ratio)
Just kidding, though it would be a unique way of doing it.


Try reading about Owen Truelove. UK to New Zealand by Stemme.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/obituaries/article663616.ece

[pistongone]

According to the mooney web site, the ovation 2gx has optional tanks with a 128 usg capacity. They do quote 2400nm range. But at 10usg/hr that means 150 usg to dry tanks? 8usg/hr for 15 hrs + 45 mins reserve would be the numbers given the info on the site. Mooney - Specifications/Performance (http://www.mooney.com/ovation2-gx/specifications-performance.html)

[skygeezer]

I flew 005 back from the states recently. The only one in Europe. We did several legs over 5 hours (at a typical cruise of 160kias) one of which was over 6 hours non stop and all of it on internal tanks. No ferry tanks required. Ok so we were up at 25,000 for most of it but its still not bad........

[500 above]

That Ovation is only 1000NM short in range of a jet I fly!

Incredible!

[Der absolute Hammer]

Twin Commanche with tip tanks.
So---single ditto but not a 400!

[flyingfemme]

For west Africa, a PC12 - unless you are going in to any really bad/short strips when you want/need a Caravan. The PC12 has almost double the range of the Van; very important in Africa where time on the ground is expensive and irritating.

[B2N2]

Now why Africa....?
I vote for:

http://www.military.cz/usa/air/in_service/aircraft/b52/b52.jpg

[172driver]

in Africa where time on the ground is expensive and irritating

maybe - but rarely boring ! ;)

[FullWings]

Best single for a long flight?
U2? (Especially over 'hostile terrain')...