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WhinerLiner
19th Aug 2008, 10:12
SA pilots' grading scrutinised
19/08/2008 10:16 - (SA)

http://www.news24.com/News24v2/Images/tsp.gifhttp://www.news24.com/News24v2/Images/tsp.gifhttp://www.news24.com/News24v2/Images/tsp.gifJan de Lange

Johannesburg - The international recognition of all South African pilots could be in danger due to the possible downgrade of the South African Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) by the USA's Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).
Due to the shortage of inspectors that test the flight worthiness of aeroplanes and issue and reassess pilots' licences, the FAA had considered downgrading the CAA in January already.
The CAA was however awarded a six-month postponement after appeals from Colin Jordaan, a former head of the SAA who had then just been appointed as the executive head of the CAA. Since then, Jordaan has been working ceaselessly for the CAA to maintain its status.
This shortage of inspectors came to light during an audit by the FAA that was done at the CAA's head office in Midrand last year - just like the audit done at SAA's technical department which exposed a dangerous skills shortage and which was exposed on Sake24 on Monday.
A downgrade will have disastrous effects on South African aviation, the country's biggest magazine for pilots, SA Flyer, wrote in its latest edition.
It would mean a dramatic decrease in the international recognition of South African pilots' licences, that aeroplaines' air worthiness-certificates won't be worth much abroad, and that SAA won't be able to develop its routes to America.
A leader from an FAA delegation which visited the CAA in January, brought with him a letter which informed the CAA of the downgrade. Jordaan convinced him and the other delegates to give the CAA six months to recover. According to an interview with SA Flyer, it was the first time in the history of the FAA that a downgrade of an airline regulatory authority was issued but not awarded to the involved authority. Transport minister Jeff Radebe has since ensured that Jordaan gets a sufficient budget to lure back skilled inspectors, who are in demand worldwide. More than 80 of them have been hired in the last few months.

Avi8tor
19th Aug 2008, 11:50
All things considered, I think TAJ is really trying. Was impressed with what I saw when I went to try sort out my SA DE status. The hiring of inspectors to do oversight etc. I think Part 61 will go along way to sorting out the Pilot/crew side of things.

I do believe there is a similar mess in the engineering side too however. Not sure how that's gonna get resolved.

Alternate Law
20th Aug 2008, 14:18
Bit slow on the uptake, whiner

That article was regurgitated by the media recently ( probably as a result of trying to rub on the SAA technical story).

Notice the dates: January, got another 6 months, July, things looking rosier. We're now almost at the end of August, for what its worth :rolleyes:

Ajax 28
20th Aug 2008, 15:24
There is an official response from CAA on their website if any one is interested..

Sticky Fingers
20th Aug 2008, 16:03
Hows about a link then Ajax.

126,7
20th Aug 2008, 18:21
From the CAA:
MEDIA RELEASE 20 AUGUST 2008
SACAA responds to false allegations in the Beeld newspaper
The South African Civil Aviation Authority is issuing this statement as a response to claims made
in the Beeld newspaper of 19 August 2008 under the heading “SA pilots’ grading scrutinized”
and the same version covered in other related publications. The statements contained in this
publication state that the SACAA could be facing a possible downgrade by the FAA. These are
simply false allegations that may only seek to damage the image of the SACAA and that of the
country. In fact, the SACAA underwent an audit by the Federal Aviation Administration last year,
and the final outcome confirmed in January that we were compliant with all international
standards and that we had maintained our Category 1 status. The follow-up visit (not an audit)
that took place at the end of July was to monitor progress on training and other initiatives that
had taken place in the intervening 6 month period.
As a leading aviation nation on the sub-continent, the FAA was keen to see whether we had
achieved our stated goal of not only being compliant with International standards, but rather far
exceeding the minimum requirements. They left satisfied that we had now indeed achieved our
goal. They further indicated that should we continue at the current levels, we would not be
subjected to frequent audits in terms of the FAA risk management model.
The mandate of the South African Civil Aviation Authority (SACAA) is to regulate the civil
aviation industry by controlling, promoting and regulating safety and security within the industry
whilst ensuring and overseeing the development and functioning of the same.
The SACAA achieves this through various ways e.g. by developing relevant legislation that
supports and ensures that we deliver on this mandate and by overseeing all personnel and
operators within the industry to ensure compliance with applicable regulations and standards.
South Africa is a signatory state to the ICAO Convention of 1944 and it is therefore expected to
meet its international obligations in terms the International Civil Aviation Organization’s (ICAO)
SA Civil Aviation Authority
Private Bag X73
Halfway House
1685
Tel: (011) 545 1000
Fax: (011) 545 1201
Website: CAA Website (http://www.caa.co.za)
2
standards and recommended practices. The SACAA therefore is subjected to various audits by
ICAO to ensure compliance to these standards and recommended practices.
To this end the SACAA underwent two international audits in 2007. The first was the
International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) audit where the authority performed well, being
on par with various other developed aviation countries. The SACAA performed well above the
global average prior to implementing corrective actions, as demonstrated in the table below
produced by ICAO, based on the original audits results from July 07. Details of the SACAA’s
performance in the ICAO Universal Safety Oversight Audit Program are also contained on the
ICAO FSIX website: FSIX Home (http://www.icao.int/fsix). The table below indicates that shortages of technical
skills within the aviation industry are a global phenomenon and one which most countries are
working at addressing. However it is important to note that the SACAA still managed to perform
better than the global average in this respect which should indicate to the South African public
that the authority is doing everything in its powers to ensure that our safety is not compromised
as a result of skills shortages. In fact since this table was produced, we have achieved 100%
compliance in a number of areas i.e. a rating of 10 in the table.
SAFETY OVERSIGHT AUDIT RESULTS UNDER
THE COMPREHENSIVE SYSTEM APPROACH
State : South Africa Audit Period 5 to 16 July 2007
Level of Implementation of the Critical Elements of a Safety Oversight System
01 = Not Implemented
10 = Fully Implemented
 = State’s Level of Implementation
= Global Average
CRITICAL ELEMENT
01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10
Primary Aviation Legislation          
Specific Operating Regulations          
State Civil Aviation System and
Safety Oversight Functions          
Technical Personnel
Qualification and Training          
Technical Guidance, Tools and
the provision of Safety Critical
Information
         
Licensing, Certification,
Authorisation and Approval
Obligations
         
3
The SACAA also received notification from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) of the
United States of America that the authority would be subjected to an International Aviation
Safety Audit Programme (IASA) audit at the end of July/beginning of August 2007. With the two
audits being weeks apart the SACAA had to ensure that we satisfy the requirements of the FAA
which are based on ICAO Standards and Recommended Practices as well. This was a testing
time for the authority, one which both the SACAA management and the Department of Transport
were intent on addressing as a matter of urgency. Even though the initial report by the FAA
indicated deficiencies in our system, the authority was determined to address all of these and
this was included in the Corrective Action Plan submitted to the FAA. These deficiencies
included issues such as skills shortages and structural changes that could be made to ensure a
more efficient carrying out of the national and international mandate.
We are happy to report that at the end of 2007 the Minister of Transport issued a directive for the
positions of CEO and Commissioner for Civil Aviation to be merged with immediate effect and
this resulted in the appointment of the current incumbent Captain Colin Jordaan. The SACAA
embarked on an intensive recruitment drive which has resulted in about 80 new technical
appointments being made up to July 2008. This process is obviously not exhausted as yet and
recruitment is still underway. We have recorded 100% capacity in areas such as Airworthiness
and 90% in areas such as Flight Operations which required pilot inspectors mainly. We are
however pleased to announce that with the current capacity we are able to fulfill our mandate as
required.
It is with disappointment that we note that the journalist who wrote the story in the Beeld and in
News 24, regarding the skills shortage at the SACAA and the downgrading of the same, did so
without verifying the facts with the SACAA first. He simply extracted contextual background
written by the editor of SA Flyer out of an article in that publication and reported this as factual,
with disregard for the timelines and accuracy of the information.
The SACAA wishes to limit our comments on this matter to what is contained in this press
statement as we believe that it gives a clear and concise message on the correct facts regarding
this matter. Further to this, we would also like to assure the South African public that we take
our mandate seriously and we do everything in our power to ensure that our skies remain as
safe as they have been since commercial aviation activity started in this country.
4
- ends –
Inquiries: Phindiwe Gwebu
SACAA Senior Manager Communications
Tel. 011 545 1086
Mobile. 083 461 6070
[email protected]


And here is the link CAA Website (http://www.caa.co.za/)

four engine jock
21st Aug 2008, 06:45
Come on all.
The SACAA has been working very hard!
There have been a great deal of changes and all for the best!!!
Great bunch of guys/gals there.
keep up the good work.

WhinerLiner
21st Aug 2008, 09:14
And there you have it from someone at the CAA.

I.R.PIRATE
21st Aug 2008, 09:47
Lovely!!:D:D:}

unstable load
21st Aug 2008, 09:52
I hope the changes achieve the goals they want. It would be tragic for a lot of folks working all over the world on ZAF licenses if we all suddenly got downgraded to unskilled labour.:ugh::{

The777dream
22nd Aug 2008, 11:25
love it when the SACAA does their own PR work on PPrune ! :}

But i dose look like they are trying a little harder these days the CAA ! with part 61 and all ! maybe a little to late ! hope not for all SA licenced pilots !

would be a crying shame if the SA licence got down gradded ! SA has some of the best pilots in the world ! :D
would be a huge blow if it all goes pear shapped because of the SACAA !

come on SACAA pull you weight ! :\

four engine jock
23rd Aug 2008, 06:35
I dont work for the SACAA

You SA lic will always be ok everywhere in the world.
The SACAA is doing a very good job. In my humble opinion.
I have worked closely with them in the past few years and have seen some very good people added to the staff.
Yes there are problems. Just like all CAA/FAA.

The biggest problem there is not the Staff. its all you guys complaining about them.
Give them a chance to prove you all wrong.
Once more that's in my opinion.

WhinerLiner
23rd Aug 2008, 09:01
Have you dealt with the FAA? They actually return phone calls and reply to emails. In addition, if you keep asking the same question you can expect to get the same answer. Wow!

After how many chances is it reasonable to expect them to answer the telephone reliably? Or is that just downright unreasonable of me?

The CAA should be leading by example instead of whining for more latitude. They take a lot of money from us to do a job, they should get on with doing a good job and give the excuses a rest.

Ok, well if you don't work for the CAA then it must be SAA, another organisation with strong traditions of customer service and sound principles. But we should probably give them another chance too, ot is it another billion Rand? Ag what the hell take both.

Der absolute Hammer
23rd Aug 2008, 10:35
Why do you think that an African country has aviation authority or airline that operates at all? Not one of them is an African tradition.Organization was not known until arrival of colonial powers such as England and Germany what put stop to war slave traffic from interior to exterior.

congoman
23rd Aug 2008, 11:13
Sorry but I've got to agree with four engine jock.
I've dealt with the SACAA for years, and I for one, am very encouraged at how things are improving. You can knock them all you want but you can't deny that they are really trying! The standard of their flight ops department has improved dramatically! The calibre of their new flying examiners is first class! Anyone want to deny it? Well done CAA.:ok: The naysayers obviously haven't taken the trouble to find out what's been happening there.
Which is a pity because the CAA has become very approachable to the industry and are doing their best to help. Of course they're not perfect - but show me one regulator in the entire world that is!
Instead of squealing, why not go and get the story straight from the horses mouth and make a positive input - instead of taking the word of someone with a secondhand story, or the opinion of some ulterior-motived journalist.:=
And just for the record - I don't work for the CAA either!

divinehover
24th Aug 2008, 16:52
Whineliner is a very appropriate name. Lots of bitching with no substance. SACAA have been doing a great job upping their standards. Well done to them.

four engine jock
25th Aug 2008, 05:37
Dear Whiteliner.
No. I never worked for SAA. I’m not even a South African but have been living here for 15 years. And from what I have seen they doing a great job. I always get a call back. I even call the Inspector direct. And I get what I need very fast. Maybe it’s your attitude towards them.Try being a nice guy and not demanding but requesting and you will see the diffrence.

Have you ever tried getting info from an FAA inspector?
Please its not like you may think.
In SA its more personal and the job gets done faster.

We must all stop blaming them all the time for everything that happens.

As far as iam concerned.
They are donig a great job!!!
KEEP UP THE GOOD JOB!!!

Lifes-a-Beech
25th Aug 2008, 06:21
Mmm...looks like WhinerLiner has touched a bit of a nerve there Divinehover and FEJ!!! Nothing like a little bit of the truth to warm things up on PPRUNE!

And yes, I dealt extensively with both the CAA (unfortunately - occupational hazard) and the FAA and you cannot even begin to compare the two - the only thing they have in common is the aviation part.

Der absolute Hammer
25th Aug 2008, 06:44
Had business with CAA early this year in foreign licence matters. Wonderful people, entirely professionals, dedicated resourcefulness. Not as good as FAA? Well, possible so, but do not damn your CAA with faint praise. There are very informed inspectors working there. Reflect that it is possible standards inside CAA are higher than those in aviation outside.

Malagant
27th Aug 2008, 07:55
Yes, better then Zim..haha..they are trying and seems to get better but to compare them to the FAA..mmm don`t think so..but good luck and se what happens..:D

DASHER 8
1st Sep 2008, 11:17
The general stuff seems to be sort of under controle, but recently i needed to have my lic. details verified to get an Aus. lic. The process took almost 2 months and guess where the hold up was. Only when i pitched up at CAA and demanded :ugh:that the necessary e-mails went to the Aus. Caa(CASA) did it happen. This took 5 minutes after battling for 2 months with mails and calls to and from Aus.
Good luck I think it's a dog show.