Faa Or Jaa Ir?

[Ringway004]

I would like your views on whether I should do the FAA instrument rating then convert to JAA or go straight for the JAA IR, both have their pros & cons, but the cost is the main issue (bearing in mind the cost of conversion). Also do yo reccomend a doing the CPL first or IR?
thnks

[Founder]

Go for JAA directly... you're just risking a lot of problems with the conversion since the JAA are strongly pushing for the ban of all conversions and JAA training outside EU airspace. I think it was 1st of Jan 2011 that the official ban is going to take place but it might happen a lot sooner...

The only way to get conversions in the future is if you have airline experience, that means a type-rating and a couple of thousand hours on aircrafts above 5700 kg...

I did my CPL after my ME-IR and I think it was a good way, but it all depends on where you do it. The CPL training includes different things depending on the country...

[Brainstorm]

You gain almost nothing from having an FAA IR, you will probably have to do the IR all over again but under JAA rules.

So better start with the JAA IR, I think it is the simplest and least expensive route.

[cessnagirl]

I have an FAA and JAA licence. I converted my IR to JAA in Europe. Good if you want to get that first time pass.

Best option is to do your IR in UK/IRL with a good reputable school that will prepare you for anything on the day of the test. The last thing you need is an IR from some "trained monkey emporium" that will just teach you to pass a test.

Also bear in mind a good reputable school will be able to give you a good flying reference when you go for a job. That will count. Thats why I've chosen a good school some where in the British Isles for my renewal.

Best of luck, Cessnagirl

[Shunter]

JAA are strongly pushing for the ban of all conversionsWould you like to provide a reference for this ridiculous statement?

Also, you will NOT have to "do it all over again". 15hrs is the required minimum training to convert an existing ICAO IR. Many require more, but nowhere near the full course.

Depends on your circumstances. I for example had an IMC rating and quite a number of "sole ref to instruments" hours. ALL those hours count toward an FAA IR. NONE count toward a JAA IR. If you happened to be in a similar position, were in excellent instrument flying currency, it's possible to get through the FAA IR in 10 days, flying perhaps 10 or 15hrs with an FAA CFI. Do it that way and you CAN save a lot of money. Like I said, circumstances....

Also, don't forget that holding any ICAO IR means you are not required to fly the 10hrs instrument training for the JAA CPL. 10hrs training at UK commercial rates is a lot of money.

[mackey]

Do the CPL first as this is a visual rating with a small IMC part and definitely do the JAA IR, you will have better training.

If you do the CPL first, you will not be tempted to fly on instruments on your test, which you will be pulled up for.

M.

[Brainstorm]

Shunter, you sound like a happy person! :)

It is true that you only need 15 hours, but is that realistic for most people? Although I would not argue that the JAA IR is much harder, it is rather different and the airspace in Europe works a bit differently.

My point here is that it would be prudent to anticipate that you could need significantly more than the absolute minimum of 5 hours of twin and 10 hours of sim. I know a few who found themselves in that situation, the conversion cost was not far from the full JAA IR.

[Shunter]

I'm very happy thanks :D

Many do require more than 15hrs to convert, that is true. But it's not unusual to see people with a lot of instrument experience do it in the minimum. If you're starting from scratch you probably won't save anything by doing an FAA and converting; it's only a sensible avenue for those who might have an IMC rating and several hundred hours. The FAA, being a whole lot more reasonable, give you credit for ALL your previous instrument flying whereas JAA are just dicks about the whole affair.

[Brainstorm]

I agree with that, I also found the FAA much more pragmatic.

I spent an arm and a leg converting my FAA licenses to JAA licenses. All I really learnt was to do the same thing a bit differently.