Flight Instruction or straight into the Airlines?

[doogle92]

Hi all,
I am currently researching the various paths that I could take to eventually make it into the airlines once I have finished my A levels.

Which would those of you with experience in this recommend..?

Getting a PPL and sitting the ATPL written exams before doing a FI course and becoming an instructor for a few years... at least then i'll have an opportunity to earn back a bit of the cash i spent on the those bits. Then once i've paid off that plus gathered a bit more money towards a CPL, IR, MCC etc. go back to a FTO and finish it off.

Or would it be better to take out a pretty big loan (around £40k), head off to somewhere in the states, such as OBA, who offer an ab inito course for just under £30k then try and get into CTCs AQA course which will cost another £5000.

The obvious benifits at the moment seem to be; Flight Instruction = building hours + getting a bit of dosh.
Ab Initio courses = Intergrated course (which apparently airlines prefer?) + In an airline flight deck after two-ish years of training, if CTCs AQA scheme works out...

What would you recommend?

Thanks,
doogle92

[Speedybird999]

Hello There,

Well to be honest, the solution is far from as simple as you have written down. There are other factors in consideration that must be weighed up before 'jumping' at a golden price tag that the Americans or any other school offer you. At the minute, the industry is in recession due to the Credit Crunch phenomena going on and other problems ie OIL!. Airlines are very unlikely to recruit during these times leaving fresh 'Frozen' Atpl pilots waiting in line for future jobs. I am currently Finishing off my ATPL with Bristol nxt week and I am off to Stapleford after to do my CPL/FI. I am 21 years of age now, but started my PPL at 19 by going to EFT in Florida. At first, you think the price tag given to you gets you the whole package deal with shiny licenses at the end. Unfortunately, it usually costs a good deal more than what you budget for. YOu are best to do your research on what path best suits your financial and personal situation. I went modular, because I have no money, nor does my family but one thing is for sure. I have worked damn hard to get here! mainly through conentration and learn learn learn about what you are getting into. Im looking forward to becoming a Flight Instructor, mainly because I love teaching and I will get hands on flying to prepare myself for a future Right-Hand seat job one day. All I can say is the answer is not simple, be honest in what you want to achieve in the career, and get as much information as you can by speaking to ppl going through it now. Money can be easily lost in this game by not researching for training. Study hard my friend and keep working hard, it is a hard learning curve, whatever route you take, you will eventually get there with perseverence.

Take Care

Trev

[Whirlygig]

before doing a FI course and becoming an instructor for a few years... at least then i'll have an opportunity to earn back a bit of the cash i spent on the those bits. Then once i've paid off that plus gathered a bit more money towards a CPL,
Just bear in mind that if you want to earn money as an FI, you'll need to get a CPL first.

Cheers

Whirls

[doogle92]

ok great. Thanks very much to both of you. That's given me something to think about. like you trev i'm gonna be a bit strapped for cash so will probably be taking the modular route too.
Can anyone give me an idea of what 'extra costs' are involved at USA FTOs? Would these be things such as exam fees, headset loans, skills tests, accomodation etc?

[AvEnthusiast]

Well, I didn't start a new thread because I know there might be buches of threads on this, but I couldn't find it.

How much a FI can earn per month? I know it depends on many factors, but a roug idea.

[Speedybird999]

Well an example of costs you need to consider is: (Approx Fig Pounds)

- Class 1 Medical Initial 300 then 100 per year after
- Flights to and from America during ATPL depending on the groundschool you are with
- Exam fees and Aircraft hire for the exam. The hourly rate that applies plus 700 for CPL examiner! Bloody CAA!
-Figures are based on passing everything in Minimum hours, so if you are weaker at one aspect and require futher instruction, it will take longer upping the price
-Housing and Accom Deposits
-Training Deposits (Can be as much as 1000!)
-Food will cost you a good fair amount. bout 30 a week depending on ur appetite!
-General Equipment such as bags, headsets, Charts, Plotters, CRP-5 Comp (75 quid itself) Rulers, Log Books etc
-Some require you to pay for Uniform ie Shirts etc
- Be Careful of fuel surcharges (EFT went at 5 percent on top of quoted price)
- License Issue from CAA, 180 for PPL, CPL may be around 350, not sure on the rest
- Crap Aircraft in Maintence all the time increases your length of stay (Happened at EFt)


This is a general list, I'm not trying to put you off, just wanting to prepare you for what you will face. One of the most inspirational person to me was a Pilot from Thompsonfly who told me all the nonsense and prepared me. This is why I've got so far since then.

PM me if you like

Trev

[corsair]

Getting a PPL and sitting the ATPL written exams before doing a FI course and becoming an instructor for a few years..

The obvious flaw with that plan is that under the current proposals to allow PPL Instructors be paid for instructing, you must have amassed 200 hours before you can become an Instructor. Thus you will still have to hour build and once you have 200 hours you might just as well go for the CPL. So that's not really a viable option.

In any case while being an Instructor is a good way to earn hours and vital experience. (Experience is something many people overlook). But it's a lousy way of raising money.

Ab Initio courses = Intergrated course (which apparently airlines prefer?)

'That should be 'Ab Initio courses = Intergrated course (which apparently some airlines prefer?)' You probably won't get into BA or Aer Lingus as a low time pilot. But most airlines don't care really. But you will probably have a better chance with many airlines if you have a more than 300 hours under your belt. Instructing can give you that along with vital experience.

[doogle92]

hmm ok, well from the info i've got from everyone it seems that although instructing seems to be the most obvious route in order to build hours and experience it seems to be a pretty bad way to raise money and pay off loans from a PPL, CPL and FI course. What other routes are around to help build hours as well as raising a bit of dosh? Are things such as banner towing and pleasure flights still popular enough to be worth doing? Are there any special licenses i would need to follow a route similar to this? What kind of pay are these like? They can't be better than flight instructing can they?
Many thanks,
doogle92

[flaps 15 3 green]

What other routes are around to help build hours as well as raising a bit of dosh?Have you applied to CTC for the wings scheme? If not it's worth a shot.

Unfortunately in most cases you aren't going to find very many well paid jobs with just a-levels, unless you learn a trade or work looooong hours. Why don't you look into going to university? That way you can study something you enjoy, have a shed load of fun, and most importantly become academically qualified. Anything in I.T will do you nicely with regards to funding yourself through the modular route, seems quite a popular way to do it.

But i guess your just like all the others; "I don't care about anything else as long as i'm flying! I don't care if i'm up to my neck in loans or i dont have a solid contingency plan. All i want is my 5 minutes of fame."

Well answer me this; what happens if you can't get a job in the airline industry, what are you gonna do then? (Don't be naive in thinking the odds aren't stacked against you in this department, like the majority of current wannabes on here who completely disregard this agenda as it will never be an issue with them.)
Becoming a FI is all well and good until it comes to loan repayments, saving money, earning money, poor standards of living, (with regards to your ultimate dream and the amount you'll be saving/repaying) and not to mention the winter months! I suggest you go have a word with a few FI's and hear their side of the story. Don't get me wrong it can be done, but it's not as easy as you think.

Unfortunately kid when you ain't got the money, qualifications, life experience and maturity to go about it sensibly, I'm afraid you'll always be just a.. "wannabe." Harsh but untold truth is ultimately painful.

I understand your passion; I was once a wannabe, however i kept a level head and went about it sensibly. And now here i am, barely over 30 and already attained over 8000+ hours on jets.

I worked hard throughout my A-levels, achieved high grades, went to uni and graduated with a solid aeronautical engineering degree. My hard work paid off shortly after as i gained a sponsorship for flight training. Needless to say my degree came in handy at interview and i've never looked back.

My advice to you is the same: At pressing times like today, get yourself qualified, and enjoy what there is left of your youth, you only live once and you want to make it a good one! You still have 40+ yrs to find that RHS, and when you do i'll be there to show you which button to press!

Sorry if it sounds a little harsh.

Prioritize correctly and focus promptly; you'll get there in the end.

Best wishes and good luck :ok:


F153G.