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FlyingWrench
9th Aug 2008, 23:14
Is it normal or accepted for operators not to adhere to required inspections such as phases and routines and flying aircraft out of MEL? The inspections being done past due time and sometimes pencil whipped? MEL items that are flown past their relief dates or swapping operating equipment back and forth over and over again between different aircraft? Wow! it was working yesterday and now i need to MEL it and wow the other aircraft's system is suddenly operative. What does all this mean to me as a pilot? Is it normal? Should i accept to fly aircraft this way? Am I risking my hard earned licenses and for what? Am I way out of line thinking this is bullshtt? Sure I am a relatively low time pilot trying to get my hours but is it worth it? I mention african operators in my title because i am from the US and i dont think from my experience this happens as much there. I feel that they ignore the rules and high expectations of aviation to make a quick buck and not have to worry about any consequences because there is no oversight from the authorites or the CAA. I woud never accept an aircraft that i feel would be unsafe but am talking about an aircraft that is LEGAL. I really struggle with this as I am a FO and my captains have lost their way and will take it as it is, and try to make me feel as if i know nothing if i have concerns! Am i going over the top and not fullfilling my duties as a copilot if i refuse to fly and an aircraft it is not legal?

petesevenseven
10th Aug 2008, 02:26
Hey buddy,

I was in your situation wirh an african operator almost 10 years ago. After all the Instuments Failed and the right engine auto-feathered for its third time i decided that the captain could accept it as much as he wanted. bottom line....THERE WAS NO WAY I WAS ACCEPTING THAT ****.

I Resigned and i lived to tell the tale!!! If you think its too dodgy then excercise your common sense and DON'T DO IT! Mate an aircraft is replacable you aint!!!!!

There are some good operators still left out there in africa albeit hard core but thats africa bless it!!!!

Happy Job Hunting!!!!


Pete

NIJASEA
10th Aug 2008, 07:30
you always have an option to refuse a flight but if as you say the aircraft is technically sound even if another aircraft was robbed to make it airworthy then fly it. Dont rely on the MEL they are changed at whim in some companies without informing the local CAA ( no caa of would willingly overlook such behavior) so if you are not happy fein a stomach cramp or slight fever and head for the Doctors ( too late to fly after you are diagnosed fit for flight). Log your hours but be safe and whatever happens never argue with a captain ready to fly a death trap just step down (diplomatically). Live to fly another day. :ok:

rudder hard over
10th Aug 2008, 10:01
I am in a similar situation at the moment. Had to get the MD involved as the MEL was not even on board when I arrived here. Also Jep 3 years out of date along with a host of other very dangerous anomilies. I am not in a popularity contest and won't fly the aircraft for the companies sake. The company also needs sound advice on what they're opening themselves upto when operating like this.

It's amazing, when you make a stand how all the other local pilots get behind you 100%. True leadership is what is required, not leadership by popularity.
Now that I have vented, I can enjoy the day.
Cheers

Cap Loko
10th Aug 2008, 10:11
I would almost say: make this a sticky tread.

Unfortunately, some operators (not only in Africa) lack proper application of SOPs or good standards.
I've been flying for an operator in Africa for a few years. I finally resigned due to accumulated discrepancies on the Beech 1900's and the operations. The major issue being the 2 (two) fuel gages inoperative for months. I refused to fly the aircraft in this condition up until my resignation. However all other crew in the company continued to fly it in this condition for months even on long trips. Fortunately, I didnt feel the pressure.
There where a lot more issues by then as well as some aircraft performance issues on the short strips we were operating. The day I got comments as why I left some pax and freight behind I decided it would be better to part. That meant that I didnt have a job anymore. It created a hassle for me and my family. Still, I don't regret my decision.

What I want to say with all this: Always maintain your OWN standards, with the minimum of company SOPs, especially in Africa. Its your responsibility and your license.
Keep common sense, fly safe.

rudder hard over
10th Aug 2008, 10:17
To comment on Flying wrench position. It's like being between a rock and a hard place.
FO's are often put under pressure to operate in border line cases. It is the duty of the FO to advise the Captain and the Company if he is breaking the rules and endangering lives. These books like MEL's and QRH's are in fact written by lawyers who will tear you apart at the board of enquiry for not confronting the captain when he goes against the MEL. Mr. Boeing (the manufacturer) issued a MEL for a reason and it must be adhered to of the Aircraft does not take off. It's that simple.
Some African operators need to catch a wake up with this regard. It's totally unacceptable.
If the push comes to the shove, resign and get another job.

FlyingWrench
10th Aug 2008, 10:58
Thanks to all that have replied so far. Some very good sound advice has been given. It helps to know that I am not alone in this and that others are dealing with the same things, not that problems are good but rather my thoughts and stand on these items are justified. I would like to leave for a better operator but I have a training bond on the 1900 that i could not afford to pay off. Could I reasonably be held responsible for the bond if I left early for the reasons I originally presented? I have a contract but they are not fulfilling their side of it, in my opinion. Would love to hear more thanks.

petesevenseven
10th Aug 2008, 14:54
Hi,

If you want to weigh up the cost of your life aginst the value of what is probably at best a dodgy bond. Mate I don't know you but I think you would value your life more than some dodgy bond!!!

Otherwise just leave get a better job they won't come after you coz they know they are dodgy and it would cost them more money to sue you than what any outstanding bond is worth!!!

Cheers

Pete

Cap Loko
10th Aug 2008, 15:36
Bond or not; if you find it unsafe to fly the aircraft, you simply refuse to take the flight (taken into account that you made a reasonable decision). You don't have to resign on your own initiative (like I did). If the operator doesn't want to keep you, then the bond is his problem, not yours.
When you signed your contract you expect an operator to adhere to safety standards and he expects the same from you normally.

I will not moan for flying ' a few minutes of duty time'. Flying in Africa requires some flexibility but there are boundaries.

1900flyer
11th Aug 2008, 23:38
Well that sounds like crap. Actually that sounds familiar. I worked for a company in West Africa that was up to the same no good stuff. I finally had it with maint and management and left, I am much happier now. Quite a few people had left too. Good luck to you. FlyingWrench you can PM me if you want, I will fill you in.

Doodlebug2
12th Aug 2008, 08:41
Guys, be aware that robbing one a/c to service another is an llegal practice!