PDA

View Full Version : F3/Typhoon to Georgia?


High_Expect
9th Aug 2008, 12:10
With current developments and Georgia formerly declaring 'WAR' on Russia this morning international sanctions seem ever more likely. Seeing as the UK & US are acting as International police everywhere else in the world do you think it’s likely we'll deploy some AD assets to enforce a No Fly Zone?

A chance for the F3 to prove its worth once more before the fleet disappears?
Or
Yet another Op that we're not scaled to deal with?

Comments/Discussion welcomed.


:eek:

gusspa44
9th Aug 2008, 12:19
Yep i think we need another theatre of war for our servicemen and women to hone their operational skills in. After all each year they spend 5 months in Afganistan, 5 months in Iraq that means theyre sat about for 2 months of the year on leave !!! im sure they could squeeze in another conflict best value and all that ! ( ill get my coat !! )

Green Flash
9th Aug 2008, 12:20
It seems I might be the Station Duty Fish today. Oh, go on then, I'll bite.




In my humble opinion .....




..... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha ha ha ha ..... no chance.

UN resolution?
NATO involved too? (Georgia wants to join. But they ain't in yet)
Host nation?
And Russia supplies the UK with most of our gas.

Grabbers
9th Aug 2008, 12:21
We could just give them away. Loads of wonga saved on maintenance costs. Imagine the peace and quiet without the F3.................................crews:ok:

LateArmLive
9th Aug 2008, 12:29
"A chance for the F3 to prove its worth once more"

When has it proved its worth before? :}

Climebear
9th Aug 2008, 13:48
Our colleagues could easily get drawn into this.

There are currently 7 UK mil officers serving as UNMOs in UN Observer Mission in Georgia (UNOMIG) - at least one of these will be RAF (another post is rotational RAF/Army).

UNOMIG operates in the Abkhaz/Georgian ceasefire line not in South Ossetia; however, BBC is reporting possible Russian bombrdment of Georgian positions in the Kodori Gorge (where UNOMIG patrols) and the de-facto Republic of Abkhazia has also mobilised its reserves. As an aside the Russian bombing of Poti could also be linked as it was from here that Georgia mounted an Amphibious Op in the early 90s to retake Abkhazia - this was only defeated with the (denied) assistance of Russian forces. In 2002, Russia offered the inhabitants of South Ossetia and Abkhazia Russian citizanship; Russia also provides the peacekeeping forces (under the guise of the CIS) on the GEO/ABK Ceasefire Line - so the 'defence of our citizens' rational for Russian involvement in Soth Ossetia could easily be applied to Abkhazia.

Climebear served as an UNMO in UNOMIG in 2002

Phochs3
9th Aug 2008, 15:36
F3s versus Russian Flankers?? Hmmmmmmmm....

Squirrel 41
9th Aug 2008, 15:47
Yes, very likely that the AD fleet will get to go to Georgia this summer - nice weather, southern belles, and some decent golf courses (eg, Augusta).

Hat, Coat etc etc

S41

The Helpful Stacker
9th Aug 2008, 16:47
Thats one opinion of course.
Was the F3 designed as a 'dogfighter' or as a means of carrying a fair few missiles and a decent radar aloft, loiter for a fair while and pick off targets at range?
Would such an ability be useful in say, enforcing a no-fly zone and do the F3 fleet have any previous experience of this (hint, yes they do)?
Whilst many of us love to knock other fleets the F3 is pretty good at what it was designed to do.

minigundiplomat
9th Aug 2008, 17:59
Priceless. Save us scrapping them I suppose.

Phochs3
9th Aug 2008, 18:10
Stacker, yes, expect the Flankers at 60 000ft would just allow themselves to be 'picked off at range'.

advocatusDIABOLI
9th Aug 2008, 19:28
I personally think UK QRA is more important. Let the Typhoon get on with, what would be, a long job.

30 years, might not cover it.

Our best course of action at this point...... might be extreme caution.

Regards,

Advo

TiffyFGR4
9th Aug 2008, 19:42
Even if the UK did send a few F3's & Typhoons to Georgia, (Which I very much doubt), their first choice would be the Typhoon, the F3's would probably be kept back like they were in the first Gulf War. But the F3 now is a different beast, better than what it was back then.

Anyway, its their problem, if they're big enough to start a war with each other, then they're big enough to finish it themselves. Let them sort their own problems out.

West Coast
9th Aug 2008, 22:44
Even if the UK did send a few F3's & Typhoons to Georgia, (Which I very much doubt), their first choice would be the Typhoon, the F3's would probably be kept back

Y'awl need not worry about the F3 v Flanker match up. If the balloon goes that high the F22 will be there.

Davetron
9th Aug 2008, 23:29
I'll check and see if we have the funds....oh wait.:}

The Helpful Stacker
10th Aug 2008, 00:25
Y'awl need not worry about the F3 v Flanker match up. If the balloon goes that high the F22 will be there.

Are you sure? They don't want to go and get the airshow Queen dirty now do they?

What would the spotters say?

West Coast
10th Aug 2008, 01:05
Are you sure? They don't want to go and get the airshow Queen dirty now do they?



Better to get the ole girl dirty than to make beer cans out of F3's lawn darting.

KeepItTidy
10th Aug 2008, 01:23
Just for the Navy girls on this forum we should send Lusty in to the Black sea, the russians will tremble in fear ;)

theron
10th Aug 2008, 02:42
hehe! if only the geography would allow it

it will probably be over before military intervention from any other country:

Georgia
Total personnel: 26,900
Main battle tanks (T-72): 82
Armoured personnel carriers: 139
Combat aircraft (Su-25): Seven
Heavy artillery pieces (including Grad rocket launchers): 95

RUSSIA
Total personnel: 641,000
Main battle tanks (various): 6,717
Armoured personnel carriers: 6,388
Combat aircraft (various): 1,206
Heavy artillery pieces (various): 7,550

Out Of Trim
10th Aug 2008, 11:09
Georgia Equipment from Wiki is more substantial
Equipment

Main battle tanks
T-72 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72)B1 - 59 units
T-72 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72)M - 75 units
T-72 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-72)AB - 71 units
T-55 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-55)AM - 40 unitsAIFVs/APCs
BMP-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-1) - 80 units
BMP-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMP-2) - 120 units
BTR-80 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTR-80) - 75 units
MT-LB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT-LB) - 64 units
BRDM-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRDM-2) - 17 units
Otokar Cobra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otokar_Cobra) - 100 unitsTowed artillery
2A36 Giatsint-B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_gun_2A36) - 12 units
2A65 Msta-B (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152_mm_howitzer_2A65) - 18 units
2A18 (D-30) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/122_mm_howitzer_2A18_(D-30)) - 120 unitsSelf-propelled artillery
2S7 Pion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S7_Pion) - 12 units
2S19 Msta-S (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S19_Msta) - 3 units
2S3 Akatsiya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2S3_Akatsiya) - 26 units
VZ 77 Dana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/152mm_SpGH_DANA) - 24 unitsMultiple Launch Rocket Systems
M-87 Orkan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-87_Orkan) - 4 units
RM-70 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RM-70) - 48 units
BM-21 Grad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21) - 120 units
LAR-160 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=LAR-160&action=edit&redlink=1)- 15 units
M-63 Plamen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-63_Plamen) – 12 unitsMortars
2B11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2B11&action=edit&redlink=1) 120 mm - 240 units
M-38/43 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=M-38/43&action=edit&redlink=1) 120 mm - 365 units
M75 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M75) 120 mm – 250 units
Georgian Air Force

Main article: Georgian Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_Air_Force)
The Georgian Air Force consists of the air force and the air defense.
The main missions of the air forces are: to control and defend air space of Georgia; conduct air intelligence and surveillance; provide support to the Armed Forces other Services; conduct air evacuation and search and rescue operations; air movement of personnel and military cargo transportation. The strength of Air Forces is 1,813 military and civilian personnel.

Equipment

Aircraft
22 Su-25KM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25)
13 Su-25UB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25)
12 MiG-25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-25)
4 Su-24 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-24)
18 MiG-21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan-Gurevich_MiG-21)
11 L-39 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_L-39_Albatros)
2 L-29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aero_L-29_Delfin)Helicopters
1 Mi-35 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-35)
19 Mi-24P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24)
21 Mi-24V (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-24)
18 Mi-14 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-14)
16 Mi-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-8)
6 Bell 212 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_212)
40 UH-1H (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UH-1_Iroquois)
2 Mi-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-2)
Air Defence


15 SA-11 GADFLY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K37_Buk)
38 SA-3 GOA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-125)
?? SA-5 GAMMON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-200)
18 SA-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K33_Osa)
?? SA-7A/B GRAIL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strela_2)
?? SA-14 GREMLIN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K34_Strela-3)
?? SA-16 GIMLET (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K38_Igla)
35 ZSU-23-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSU-23-4)
15 S-60 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/57_mm_AZP_S-60)
40 MT-LB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MT-LB) with towed ZU-23-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZU-23-2)
30 Grom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grom_(missile)) launchers with 100 missiles[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Georgia#cite_note-4)

Fox_4
10th Aug 2008, 11:33
Ah Wikipedia, the font of all Int!

Some Georgian IntO has probably beefed up their stockpile somewhat I would suggest!

Im in for a months leave if they need someone to fly last wave everyday. Might actually get airborne a bit more often. Number anyone?

;)

Green Flash
10th Aug 2008, 13:16
Just for the Navy girls on this forum we should send Lusty in to the Black sea, the russians will tremble in fear

Sounds like Ivan might be setting up a blockade of Georgian waters so the Senior Service might have to fight it's way in past the Black Sea Fleet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet#List_of_Black_Sea_Fleet_ships).

tonker
10th Aug 2008, 13:33
Best pack lots of Sea Skua then!

The Helpful Stacker
10th Aug 2008, 13:42
Maybe the RN would be better off packing lots of Gin to keep the Russians busy at a few of those cocktail parties that they excel at.

Double Zero
10th Aug 2008, 15:22
Is that a hint of jealousy, that the RAF don't do such good cocktail parties ?!

Top Tip; they'd better serve vodka rather than gin, or we'll be at war in double quick time.

As for the Tornado F3 loitering and 'picking off' targets, "with a good radar" - that may be the case, eventually, after all these years, but I somehow doubt the Russians will quake in their boots -

- and don't even think about trying to invite them aboard 'Lusty' & incapacitate them by drink, or the next thing you'll know is waking up with a headache to find she's several miles inland, covered in fairy lights at a theme park !

Seriously, I feel sorry for the Georgians, but don't see a thing we can do - maybe nuke Iraq, Iran & Afghanistan ( + Zimbabwe & Nigeria to be sure ) and start with a clean sheet ?

mr fish
10th Aug 2008, 18:14
maybe the georgians should take tips from the taliban, after all they
proved the big bad bears claws arn't as sharp as some folk think.

Green Flash
10th Aug 2008, 18:46
There was a report on the BBC news this evening showing a Frogfoot rocketing the BBC crew! The presenter said there would be more footage on the 10.00pm BBC1 news.

sunshine band
10th Aug 2008, 19:09
No! No military intervention has been asked for or advised. The EPs have their own extraction plan through their civie companies. The UN will take care of the 140 or so UN monitors.

SB

Climebear
10th Aug 2008, 21:01
SBThe UN will take care of the 140 or so UN monitors.

Remember the UN works at the competence of the lowest common denominator - and that's pretty low. When I was there as an UNMO, I didn't have a high degree of confidence that the UN was up to the job.

Today's reports included mention of bombing in Zugdidi where I was based.

MarkD
10th Aug 2008, 21:45
The UN will take care of the 140 or so UN monitors.
Hope so, not like Lebanon (http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2530)