Canadian Aviation Academy

[bsal]

I just seen a tv ad for this place and checked out their website Pilot Flight Training- Becoming a Pilot-Airplane and Helicopter Pilot Training (http://www.pilot.ie/), does anyone have first hand experience with them? Any other info on the place?

[winto22]

Hey ,

Im currently a student doing the airplane / fixed wing course with CAA ( canadian aviation academy) ,

They are located in North Bay , Ontario Canada ,

Ive been here since Jan 08 and my training is going really well , im currently working on my commercial , then onto multi and multi ifr, Then onto my Flight Instructor Rating , which ive been offered a job already by the school for when i complete my course

The they have c152 , c172 single engine aircraft and a multi engine aircraft ,
Honestly its a good setup here , The town is decent to live in and its very affordable place to live compared to ireland ,

The flight training programme is based on the Canadian Forces Pilot training Programme developed by Ron MacDonald ,

The Course is very straight forward but requires a good level of determination to complete ,

CAA will take care of really well regarding food , accomadation , transportation, etc,

Personally im glad i made the decision the come here and train and i know i will achieve my goal of making it to the airlines very soon,

Also all your ground school studies and equipment is included in the cost aswell which makes life alot easier for you ,

The great advantage of training here is that you will get to experience summer aswell as winter flying which is alot of fun ,

Along with the other students who you will in the course with you there are fun outing together eg, paintballing , skydiving , trip to niagra falls , and so on ,

The head of the flight school Stefan is a CRJ pilot for Air Jazz / Air Canada aswell he is very much of an advantage to you if you plans are to aim for the airlines , Stefan is a great person to talk to regarding advise in the airline industry ,

I hope some of this info has helped you if you would like to know anymore specifics feel free to respond and ill give you an honest opinion / answer,

Talk to u soon ,
chris :cool:

[dannye92]

you dont need a Leaving Cert do you?


and how much is it?

[winto22]

Here in canada ,

I only plan to instruct for around 12 months ,

i should have been more accurate in my statement , after 12 months if an airline will take me then great but if not , then ill be looking for regional / charter / or cargo work to continue hour building + increase salary ,

I know the airline market in europe is not bad at the moment but i have no intentions to convert to JAA or / write my ATPLs anytime soon ,

[winto22]

hey

i would recommend that you have your leaving cert before starting pilot training , also but possibly some college , but not essential for the college part,

regarding the cost you will need to go to this address www.caacademy.ca (http://www.caacademy.ca) and read into it from there depending what approach you want to take,

believe me its well worth it your very well taken care of overhere by canadian aviation academy ,

,keep the posts coming if any more Qs

[davey147]

Is the Canadian Aviation Academy a real flight school, or is it Algonquin Flight Centre?

If so why not go direct to Algonquin and get your licences at a tiny fraction of the cost.

[winto22]

By coming through CAA your transition into the programme along with sorting out your accomadation , all your meals, transport , your ground and flight materials is stress free as they take care of all that for you ,

I did all the research myself before i moved here from ireland in Jan 08 and after weighing up both options i realised its so much more beneficial to come through CAA and try and do this on your own ,

thats about as straight to the point as i can be :cool:

[dannye92]

ah ok

because i am heading into 5th year no just dont Transition and i'm thinking of doing a bit in the army instead of the leaving cert


the air corps would be great but hard to get in to

[The inside scoop]

WANT TO SAVE YOURSELF 46,000 EUROS? KEEP READING HERE THEN!!!!

So these guys are now calling themselves the Canadian Aviation Academy.
-Last year they were operating as Pilot Recruitment International.
-The year before that they were called Pilot Recruitment Ireland.
Now why would a company keep changing its name like that? What are they trying to hide? I'll tell you!

The truth is this company was set up in 2005. To date they've had ONE pilot finish their course!!! ONE PILOT IN 3 YEARS!!!
THEY CLAIM ON THEIR WEBSITE THEY'VE HAD HUNDREDS OF STUDENTS-WRONG!! They've had approximately 20 students from Ireland, the rest were former students of the flight school directly, NOT PRI/CAA!! Don't be fooled!

These guys are taking a HUGE cut to place you in a flight school, they're actually making more of a profit than the course cost!! Don't believe me? Check here and convert to euros!!
http://www.algonquinflightcentre.com/PDF/8010-01%20PPP0607%20Cost%20estimate.pdf
And remember, that price is in Canadian dollars, not Euros!! Unbelievable!!

THE TRUTH IS TO DATE PRI/CAA HAVE NEVER SECURED WORK FOR ANY OF THEIR STUDENTS!! EVER!

They tell you they can get you a job as an instructor at Algonquin Flight Centre. The truth is most students, not all, but most are offered the chance to become flight instructors by the school. PRI/CAA are taking a huge chunk to get you work as an instructor that you would probably end up with anyway. Why pay all the extra money??

AND DON"T BE FOOLED BY CERTAIN PRI/CAA PEOPLE COMING ON THIS FORUM TELLING YOU HOW GREAT IT IS!! FUNNY HOW THEY DON'T MENTION ALL THE FORMER DISGRUNTLED STUDENTS WHO HATE THIS COMPANY!!!!!

Also, if you do go instructing, you have to pay for that yourself, which they don't really mention! AND you'll have to pay for your own food and accomodation after your 1 year contract ends!

So if you still insist on becoming a pilot, contact the flight schools directly! I must add theres no problems with the flight schools themselves, its just these guys taking a huge cut and not really doing much extra for you.

So if you still insist on going with these guys, DON'T SIGN A CONTRACT UNTIL YOU'VE SHOWN IT TO A LAWYER!!! Examine the small print where it says they can't garantee you work. Thats not there by accident!!!

AND FOR GOD SAKE IF YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO'S THINKING OF GOING WITH THEM SHOW THEM THIS, IT COULD SAVE YOUR FRIEND FROM FORKING OUT TENS OF THOUSANDS!!!!!!

Try searching for pri academy/pilot recruitment international on pprune.com to see what others think of these guy!!

Now thats the information this company has been trying to hide!
And believe me theres a lot more I can't go into for legal reason.
You have been warned!!

[winto22]

hopefully i was some help for u guys and ur Qs , anymore keep them coming ,

high school / leaving cert you should at least have that before going for the air corps aswell or even the army ,

i tried for the air corps and made it to the last 20 out of 650 people , was just unlucky

thats for the Qs and tlk to u soon

chris

[winto22]

TO be as stupid as to touch on a point like why does a company change there name , this is irrelevent , .....

Its obvious that if you decide to go through a recruitment company that they are bound to make some amount of money off you,

in this case though , you pay CAA the price offered for the course and YOU ARE RECIEVING ALOT MORE IN RETURN THAN JUST PILOT TRAINING ,

You make a statment like one student has only graduated from the course !

Graduating from the Pilot Programme depends on your personal motivaion and dedication levels , if you can find it in you to be personally motivated and dedicated to complete the course i would advise you not to enter it ,

The instructor job positions are offered to students who show a good level of commitment to the programme and who show the certain qualities that an instrctor must posess , All it takes is hard work , good results , good personal level of motivation and honest dedication to the programme,

THE PREVOUS STATMENT MADE BY USER : THE INSIDE SCOOP , THIS IS INFORMATION IF BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS NOT RELEVENT TO NEW COMERS AS THIS PERSON MADE PERSONAL MISTAKES WHICH RESULTED IN ACTIONS THAT DID NOT FAVOUR HIM / HER....

Canadian Aviation Academy / Algonquin Flight Centre is a top quality flight school and im glad i chose them to do my training with ,

I would also like to state that i have full faith in CAA regarding job placements and any other help i might need to achieve my goal of becoming an airline pilot :cool:

[Zyox]

Gonna have to side with KeithTo on this one. I went through the course with CAA (who at the time were Pilot Recruitment Ireland, before becoming Pilot Recruitment International, before becoming PRI Academy, and now CAA) and it was 45,000eur for us to do it. We were told they made a loss on us at this price. I'm not surprised, it was quite cheap. (Edit: to clarify and "name and shame", I'm the one that finished)

This seems to have been done to attract the first crowd in and get the company going, fair enough. And I'm not going to start dragging up all the annoyances that happened over there in dealing with them at times, they were a start up company, a fair bit of "cowboy-itis" going on, and it's all in the past now thank ****.

But the price increase to nearly double of what it was initially, when you look at how much it costs to train in JAA-land, is quite surprising.

If you do intend on training in Canada, which I _highly_ recommend because of the amazing country that it is and how beautiful the flying is there, then look around. Check out the Moncton place which actually gives you a JAA qualification. That way you can work in both places. None of this working for a pittance as an instructor flying only 7-8 months of the year and waiting years to get into a right hand seat. Especially when you could, as KeithTo says, pay a hell of a lot less going to a good flight school that isn't tied in with a recruitment company and sort out your own accommodation very very easily :) Should also add that there is quite a large demand for instructors in Ireland (and England too I think) where the pay is a hell of a lot better than the pay in Canada, in much much better conditions. Yes you need to do a little more work to get there in the end, including sitting your ATPLs, but you need to do that anyway if you want to go commercial/airline no?


i should have been more accurate in my statement , after 12 months if an airline will take me then great
i have no intentions to convert to JAA or / write my ATPLs anytime soon
Not to single you out or pick on you here Winto22, but if you don't write your ATPLs how will you get an airline job?

Choose wisely guys and girls. Don't be taken in by planted students impressing the management := This is the 2nd/3rd time I've seen it tried here over the years, and it boils my blood each time :hmm:

[The inside scoop]

You pay CAA the price offered for the course and YOU ARE RECIEVING ALOT MORE IN RETURN THAN JUST PILOT TRAINING

What exactly are you receiving a lot more of? You're not getting any extra flying hours, thats for sure. Please clarify this comment for me and the potential customers you're trying to rope in here and squeeze money out of. Maybe you get a space shuttle rating too?

How can you honestly sit there and tell people to cough up 76,000 euro for a course that costs 30,000 euro? Even if you have to pay your own food, accomodation and bus pass for the year that still only comes to approx 40,000 euro, and thats being generous. So why not use that extra 36,000 euros to pay for your instructor rating and accomodation once you get your commercial licence? Well?

You make a statment like one student has only graduated from the course !
Not a statement bud, an UNDENIABLE FACT. And I dare you to deny that.

THE PREVOUS STATMENT MADE BY USER : THE INSIDE SCOOP , THIS IS INFORMATION IF BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IS NOT RELEVENT TO NEW COMERS AS THIS PERSON MADE PERSONAL MISTAKES WHICH RESULTED IN ACTIONS THAT DID NOT FAVOUR HIM / HER...
For you to say a former students opinion is not relevant says it all about you and the the cowboy outfit you're working for. You're trying to erase all the former students from history so that the true opinions won't come out.

And don't pretend you're giving an even, balanced opinion of this company to the public either, its quite obvious you're creating propanganda in favour of CAA/PRI.
Zyox had it right folks, watch out for planted students whos job it is to tell you all the good points and none of the many bad ones about this lot. And this isn't the first PRI/CAA brown noser to have done this either!

KeithTo seems to have a good head on his shoulders and he seems to be able to see past the massive overcharging thats going on here. Good for you bud, I'm not trying to tell you what to think of these guys, but just remember this-something must have happened for me to have this opinion. And the rest of the ex students will be on soon to give their two cents worth, and then the truth will come out.


I know I must have sounded like an angry begrudger in the last post but I am absolutely sick of Canadian Aviation Academy/PRI Academy overcharging young lads and then leaving them with huge bills to pay, and the sooner people find out what this company is really like the better.

Now as I've said before I've no problems with Algonquin Flight School and if people want to go there thats fine, just don't get taken in by CAA/PRI making a hard sales pitch, only to find yourself a year later trying to scrape even MORE money together to pay for your instructor rating, and trying to pay your food and accomodation.

Folks, that my opinion and the honest to god truth, and I'll answer any questions put to me. Good luck with whatever you choose, but choose carefully. Thats all I have to say.

[top jock]

If they only have one student who has passed then the guys they have training you are no good. A student will only learn what they are taught. Sounds like they are cheap and for a reason. In the long run i would stay away from them and by the way if a company changes their name all the time it is a big deal. It is harder to start from the begining everytime so they are running away from something.

[Zyox]

f they only have one student who has passed then the guys they have training you are no good. A student will only learn what they are taught. Sounds like they are cheap and for a reason. In the long run i would stay away from them and by the way if a company changes their name all the time it is a big deal. It is harder to start from the begining everytime so they are running away from something.

Must strongly disagree here. At the time, and I must stress at the time because from what I've seen things have changed a lot in the flight school recently :uhoh:, when I went through you could not fault Algonquin Flight Centre one bit. If you were willing to work hard and were committed to it they got you on the schedule as much as possible, were dead set on keeping planes up in the air, and so long as you respected the instructors they went above and beyond their job requirements at times to help you get through exams and flight tests.

I got on really well there and loved dealing with them. Others however didn't get on so good. Some fell out with instructors, some didn't like how things were run, and others were just simply not as committed and more into enjoying the Canada experience. Which is all fine! Each to their own of course :) But I like to think I worked hard and was determined to get back to Europe and convert as soon as possible and my efforts paid off thanks to help from the flight school and them being so accommodating.

So the insinuation here made against AFC that they are sub-par, cheap, and/or teaching poorly is highly inaccurate and just plain wrong from my first hand experience.

However lots of instructors that I knew have since left and there's been a reshuffle in management over the last year, so getting some perspective from current students would be a good idea if you are to consider AFC...

[top jock]

Well i have to say that if i was starting out from what is posted here i would go no where near the place. I dont buy that everybody who goes there and parties never passes as where i went we studied hard and played hard yet there was a very high rate of passes. You can only learn what is taught to you in the correct way. The way the examiner wants you to fly to pass. It seems to me that does not happen here. I maybe wrong but the figure speaks for itself

[CharlieNicholas]

I 100% agree with Zyox and The Inside Scoop. A very accurate description of what goes on over there.

I left very early after arriving and have since completed my training in Europe and am just waiting for some nice people to offer me a job.

Anyway as TIS said in previous posts, there is a lot f stories from my time there that could not be posted here. In saying that, Algonquin flight school were ok to be honest. Not great but ok. Instructors were good.

But take note, do lots of research before handing any money over. When people are praising this company, be wary. So far it looks like 2 people are doing this (Ricky1 & Winto22), 1 of these people works for the company (I know this for a fact). The other one has obviously been recruited since I left, but just compare their posts and see how similar they are. Maybe they are both on 'commission only' contracts.

Anyway bottom line is, be careful who you are going to trust with your hard earned money.

[The inside scoop]

Just to clarify here guys, theres no problem with the flight school itself. If you go DIRECTLY to them you should have no problems and you'll get everything you pay for!

My problem is with the Canadian Aviation Academy/Pilot Recruitment International, which is basically a recruitment agency or middleman that takes a huge fee to put you in the flight school, something you could easily do yourself.

Also, when I said theres only been one student qualify, what I meant by that was the students who had paid CAA/PRI to put them into Algonquin Flight School.

Algonquin Flight School itself has had hundreds of students qualify ever before these guys CAA/PRI teamed up with them, and they'll still have students qualifying long after CAA/PRI has run itself into the ground.

So my advice is contact the flight schools directly and save yourself tens of thousands of euros. Cut out the middleman i.e. Canadian Aviation Academy/Pilot Recruitment International/PRI Academy
I hope this clears things up...:D

[The Rebel]

Hi Guys,

Yes, i'm another person that didn't finish training with pri/cca, but completed my training elsewhere. My advice to anyone is don't believe one thing that you are told by cca/ppi.

I saw what they were like and got out, THANK GOD and don't want anything to do with them. The only reason i'm making this posting is to tell everyone what they are really like.

I really don't know how winto22 can tell people to join with this crowd, it just makes me mad, don't be fooled by them.

The reason that i left was that they made promises that i could see that they were unable to keep.

I ask you can we all be wrong?

[Murt Kennedy]

Im currently in north bay, canada going through the pri/caa program. Now as im doing a helicopter commerical lience i cant comment on the fixed wing course.

The training is in conjunction with gateway helicopters.
I researched the cost and program involved of many flight schools around the world including Oz, Waterford, Dublin, England, South Africa and here in Canada for YEARS before i came to a discision,rightly enough the price tag on all the courses rised greatly over the years. I knew exactly what i was paying for before i came here and of course caa are making money off,ITS A BUSINESS. Any business that doesnt make money is a bad business. I felt the pri/caa program was without a doubt the best value considering it would have been more expensive to stay at my own home in waterford than it was to come over here and the training itself was far better than offered in oz or south Africa (ie no turbine time)

Since iv been here i can only say that iv been treated greatly by pri/caa, there was alot of bitteriness shown towards the company to me by other irish students where as yet im still waiting to see with my own 2 eyes. Its just the usual irish begrugery in my opinion. Im not telling anyone to part with their money and join caa but im sure i made the right decission. They sorted the visa,flights to and from canada,accomadation (which is better than most houses in Ireland),weekly allowance for food,all course matierals and books and a car with a full tank of gas every 2nd week which i was NOT expecting.

I started the 10 month course in may '08 and passed my cpl written exam 3 weeks ago,im due to finish totally in the next 5-6weeks(4.5 months ahead of scedule). Iv been offered a position with gateway helicopters as have my fellow irish students who started the course with me. and because we've done so well they threw in a extra course (turbine engine course) payed for by the caa. Its a FACT to say you will only get as much from this course as your willing to put into it, i put everything into it and im getting loads in return.

Somebody tell me what iv got to complain about???????

I dont work or instruct for pri/caa and have nothing to gain by filling anyone with lies,its just not my style either.

Any questions? Fire away.

[The Rebel]

Hi! Murt

with reference to your cost comparison

Why didn't you go to Gateway directly and you could have got the course for 44,000 euros approx (70.000 dollars) that a saving of 36,000 euros (58,000 dollars) and if you made a mistake by not going direct, don't encourage others to make the same mistake as you made.

None of the students have anything against PRI/CCA, untill they see how much they would have paid if they had gone directly to the flight school.

So how many helicopter pilots have finished the course now and are they working?

My advice to anyone is to go directly to the school and save your money.

[donnelly]

Hi all,

I am in the process of searching for flight schools where I can complete my fixed wing, CPL, etc. I've been looking at different schools and CAA was one of them. But reading through the posts gave me a few concerns and questions:

1) There has been a lot of debate over the cost of the course. From looking at it, it seems that there is no question that going to the school directly would save me a tone of money, however; does CAA provide accommodations? Food? Transportation? or would I have to pay that on top of everything else?

2) If CAA does provide all the items I mentioned, would the extra cost not be understandable. Knowing full well that they are most certainly making a profit off of it (though the time I'd save, not to mention the $ in long distance phone bills to find an appartment, would be nice)

3) There seems to be a lot of anger (probably not the best word) towards CAA from some of their former students. Can I expect that kind of "relationship" with the CAA staff, or where there extenuating circumstances?

I appreciate any insight you lads might have. You might save me a load of $!

Cheers

D.

[The Rebel]

Hi!

Yes, CCA does pay for food, accomodation and transport, but there is a bus service that will take you to the flight school at a cost of 60 dollars per month, the most you would expect to pay for food and accomodation would be 1,000 per month, things are a lot cheaper here than Ireland.

The flight school that CCA uses is Algonquin flight center, you could try and go directly to the school, have you tried Moncton Flight College, can also JJA.

The about prices are based on North Bay.

The flight schools should help get somewhere to stay.

Best of luck

[roberto_baggio]

Hey Winto22,

Could you advise me on the weather in North Bay, Ontario? Cause I'm interested in the flight training in Canada

[winto22]

First of all i would like to mention touch upon what THE REBEL said about the bus service to and from the school that is incorrect ,

CAA have a someone who brings u to and from the school everyday and that is included in your training cost ,

Secondly : Yes CAA does include your accomadation , transportation , meals / shopping everyday and week for each student all included in your training cost stated on the website ,
www.canadianaviationacademy.com

Just to let u know , i am current student in the programme with CAA and i have to admit i have had abosolutely no problem with them at all , they do everything they can for u ,

when u do this course you only get out of it as much as u put in to it,

if u read the post by Murt Kennedy a few posts previous to this , he is a helicopter pilot who is currently doing his training and came through CAA, read what he has to say in his opinion of the the company , facilitles , training etc,

in my opinion i the negative comments coming from X students is due to their attitude and commitment toward the programme and they honestly dont understand what their recieving for what they pay, their speaking / typing before thinking ....

honestly if u are a intrested student and thinking of coming through CAA privite mail me here on PPrune and i can set up phone call with u and answer any question u ma have

any questions or reponses feel free to reply ,
:ok:

[Zyox]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Snake_plant.jpg/450px-Snake_plant.jpg

Lovely plant no? :yuk:

[flybywire73747]

having been a past student of PRI/CAA i thought i would add my experiences to the onging debate.

for prospective students this is what you need to know about the company:

- for each of the three years of its the existence the company has changed its name. (i wouldn't want to speculate why however anyone with anything between their ears can realise the significance of that)

-i believe 21 students in total have studied with or are currently studying with PRI/CAA and to date only one student has finished the course. while they were some students who indeed were not dedicated enough to finish the course i can assure they were plenty who were. (i was one)

-out of those 21 students none have gained employment through PRI/CAA

-for the fixed wing course the company charges around the 65000euros (100,000 dollars) mark i believe. a canadian would be charged around 37000 dollars for the same course in the same flight school(as of few months back)

-of course every company has to turn profits however PRI/CAA are purely motivated by profits caring little about the type of pilots they want to produce. if a student wanted to leave the course for whatever reason they can expect nothing in refunds even if they had done little flying. i know one student who left the course having paid 35000 euros, cost the company in total (and being generous) 7,000 euros received a refund of pittance. (the case is ongoing so cant really elaborate there)

-for 75000 euros a student can get a conversion to the JAR system however no one has ever done a conversion with PRI/CAA and you can be assured that they would make every mistake possible before getting it right.:ugh: it would take an extra 8-12 months for all theory exams and flight conversions, who pays for food, accom and transport during this time period.

-after you pay approximatley 63,000 dollars for food, accomodation and transport you can expect a job instructing.

-as of the beginning of 2008 instructors in Algonquin Flight Centre ( AFC, where you would do your flight training) were getting paid 150 dollars a wk base pay and 20$ per hour of flying. around 8000 p.a. they told me. (thats why there is plenty of instructing jobs in canada and why you would mostly likely get a job instructing on your own)

-after paying 75000euros for something that costs roughly 45000e (taking into a/c conversion) you will have to hand over another 8000 dollars for your instructors rating. in middle of 2008 PRI/CAA was offering its irish students 100 dollars a wk base pay to be instructors and perhaps a watch or something if you do well.:D (no $ for flight time)

-PRI/CAA did offer us jobs in Africa instead of instructing but that was just another empty promise.

-on the rotary side of things PRI/CAA offer their course for around 80000 euros (120,000 dollars) i believe. the same course can be got for less than 50,000 dollars. check out helicopters canda in north bay want to check the prices out. they used to take the rotary students from PRI/CAA but that relationship soon went sour like most PRI/CAA's.

- one PRI/CAA student just finishing the rotary course was told to :mad: off! by the company when he asked about employment as per his contract. to be fair they told him to go home and come back in 9 months when they will have a job for him which guarantees no hours flight time. again :D PRI/CAA

- the one shinning light with PRI/CAA was the fixed wing flight school (AFC) they have an affiliation with. i felt the flight training itself was very good however PRI/CAA has recently bought shares in the school so im sure it will be operated more like a business rather an aviation orientated school.

-as will all prospective flight schools you should talk to present and if possible past students. however you should be aware of "planted" students like winto22 and ricardo for this company. they care only for themselves, hoping to get students over so they get flight time as instructors, and dont concern themselves with the consequences of students taking out such large loans for no good reason.

in the end aviation it is a very difficult road to walk through however rest assured PRI/CAA will not help you get to end of the road in good shape. all they want is your money and once they have that good luck trying to get anything from them then. your negotiating tool is gone. canada itself is a great country with great people so i wouldnt be too worried about going over there without company. people should be wary of paying lump sums in adavance for flying for with they way the industry is at the minute people will get burned with schools closing because of high fuel prices.

sorry if i rambled on, its been another night of restless sleep thinking about how PRI/CAA :mad: me over

[Zyox]

Not to overshadow anything said in that post, all very good points based on your experience I'm sure, but....

-i believe 21 students in total have studied with or are currently studying with PRI/CAA and to date only one student has finished the course.
As of a few weeks ago that's now 2 :) Not to be pedantic but I think he deserves acknowledgement! :ok:

And just to briefly add there seems to be a big difference with the fixed wing versus rotary. I get the impression that the heli-lads are looked after a LOT better than the fixed wing, and encounter a lot less hassle.

[Pjlot]

I heard last week on a local regional radio station 2 young guys who were about to leave for Canada and start training with CAA.

The radio presenter was interviewing them as part of a morning show, I was somewhat surprised to hear what they said on air and I have to say it was a great free advertisement for CAA.

One of the guys spoke about returning to Ireland after a year or so once finished his training and I don't recall him mentioning anything in relation to conversion in the interview.

The other said that he was guaranteed a job as an instructor for the second year and the from that 3rd year on he would be placed as a pilot with an airline . He said "CAA have direct link with Air Canada & have placed pilots there in the past" Also stated was the fact that CAA would provide a job placement for anyone continuing to year 3. The second guy seemed to agree with the statement. The guy not returning to Ireland after training seemed to feel he would guaranteed a job with the Canadian national carrier in year 3!

I'm not trying to knock the training organisation here or the guys but they both said that their parents were helping them out with loans for training! I don't think that a job is a given with any training organisation these days and to choose a school based on that is misleading.

I hope these parents have not re-mortgaged their homes to cover the training. Again I'm not trying to bash the school or the two young guys. I don't know if it is just me but as part of enrollment exams etc (please don't start a debate about FTO enrollment exams and how they serve one simple purpose) you need to perform well in a verbal reasoning test. What is it with some people who read and advert or some "here say" on a website that justifies what they want to do and manage to take from it only what they want to hear and not look at both the pros and cons of any training organisation.

Again this is not a criticism of CAA, but from the interview it gave the distinct impression that these guys had only considered what they were going to do after completing training. They spoke as if walking into a job was a given. They never mentioned how difficult or intense the training would be. This makes you wonder have they really considered everything involved in the course. They also stated CAA would find them a job!

These guys were in their late teens and had just finished school. I'm not sure why only two people have completed the training at CAA but it sounded to me (and this is just my opinion) from the interview that these guys were caught up in a romantic dream of flying and not considered that Canada is a long way from home. A long way from parents who insisted you sit and study for your exams. A long way from the friends you grew up with and Canada as a nation it is still a different culture to home. Most importantly it is a very long way from home comforts and on hand family support when going through the ups and DOWNS of what can be in itself an intensive and stressful training and study regime.

Regardless of the dream of soaring in the clouds it is vitally important to keep ones feet planted firmly on the ground to ensure sound decisions. Something that is a must in the aviation industry given the weight of responsibility carried by the professionals.

[Zyox]

:eek:... what county/radio station was this?

Firstly:
He said "CAA have direct link with Air Canada & have placed pilots there in the past" Also stated was the fact that CAA would provide a job placement for anyone continuing to year 3. The second guy seemed to agree with the statement.This is a lie. Straight to the point - it's a lie. Call it marketing if you want, but having these two guys with the wool over their eyes saying this before they head over like it's gospel leads me to believe it's more than just "clever marketing". It is a lie. Fact.

Algonquin Flight Centre is owned in part by a training captain for Air Jazz, a subsidiary of Air Canada if I recall correctly, who flies a CRJ for them. During my time there he was rarely around and had very little input into the school apart from the business side of things. From what I hear that has changed more recently so fair enough. So you might think, ok, that's not a lie...

However I can confirm that no graduate of CAA/PRI/whatever it is this week has EVER been placed in Air Canada or any airline. 2 graduates here people, I'm one of them. I'm converting my JAA at the moment completely on my own, by choice, same as the other guy - who I don't want to talk on behalf of here really.
My point here is they are lying about past students, and it's stomach turning to think people are being taken in by it face value.
Stomach turning because they lied to me, and the other 9 students who started with me, when we joined telling us they had past students and work placement - to find once we got there that we were the first year of the course. :=


Secondly:
These guys were in their late teens and had just finished school. I'm not sure why only two people have completed the training at CAA but it sounded to me (and this is just my opinion) from the interview that these guys were caught up in a romantic dream of flying and not considered that Canada is a long way from home. A long way from parents who insisted you sit and study for your exams. A long way from the friends you grew up with and Canada as a nation it is still a different culture to home. Most importantly it is a very long way from home comforts and on hand family support when going through the ups and DOWNS of what can be in itself an intensive and stressful training and study regime.

Regardless of the dream of soaring in the clouds it is vitally important to keep ones feet planted firmly on the ground to ensure sound decisions. Something that is a must in the aviation industry given the weight of responsibility carried by the professionals.Extremely extremely well said. I really hope that kids in their teens and even those older take heed of this. It should be made a sticky post here! Fair play to you Pjlot :)

[Pjlot]

Hi Zyox

The Radio Station was South East Radio based in Wexford. If I can find the interview on archive I will post it here, I might try and call the researcher of the show in the radio station!

After hearing the interview i was quite annoyed that what can only be described as two young guys just out of leaving cert wishing to follow a dream (and lets face we all have dreams) seemed to have made their decision built on falsities, from whom or where these false statements came I don't know.

I feel bad for them and for their parents and the big training loans. I hope it works out for them but from what I have read there seems to be a very large percentage of participants who don't complete the training at PRI CAA

[Zyox]

Thanks for that Pjlot.

I saw the ad on TV recently for CAA. Was kinda horrified then just ended up grinning at all the photoshops of their new logo onto everything. Also was some press coverage during our stay in Canada, reporter for the Sunday Tribune who made friends with the 2 guys running the show it seems. Took quotes from guys and added lots of his own flavour to them no doubt under instruction from PRI/CAA. There was some coverage in a Kerry newspaper too I think. All planted of course, with a spin put on all the stories.
Got told at the weekend there was some feature in the Sunday Business Post as well. :yuk:

Cringeworthy stuff how much they're spending on advertising through whatever means to suck people in. If they spent that money and effort on improving the service and making a proper honest go of their company they could be on to a real winner. I always said they had potential and stuck up for them at times, but now it seems there really is no way they are going to change :ugh:

[riversatirelanddotco]

I was considering the CAA option. I even have my medical in Dublin next week! Having read the posts here I have to reconsider the trip Canada. So, my question is, how would one go from zero to being ready for the cockpit of a 737 as quickly as possible without paying over the top? Can you recommend an alternaive to CAA?

[mattedfred]

why don't all of you determine what airline or country you ultimately want to work for or in then contact the airline or some of the airlines in said country and ask them where they prefer their candidates train?

this may help you narrow your search

in canada the rumour is that if you are former military or have a university degree then you score more points with our national flag carrier Air Canada

you may also score more points if you went to an accredited aviation college

if the airlines you speak to don't care where you train then you'll have to find the cheapest option

[lucasv555]

Is there anyone who knows approx. how much it is possible to fly as an instructor fixed wing at CAA, and what they pay hr for flight instruction?
Working in FL,USA for the time , consider to move to Canada.

[preduk]

A disgraced former student has set out in unison with some collaborators to inflict criminal damage to our Company. It is their intention to discourage and upset students studying with us in Canada. These individuals have been identified through their internet service providers and are being investigated by the revelant legal authorities in Ireland and also by their Canadian counterparts. A dossier collating patent falsehoods are being compiled for prosecution.

I love this, do you even know what criminal damage is? Do you think that by using the name "CAA Legal" you can somehow make people scared of you? Pathetic.

First of all, criminal damage can be defined as "crimes where any person without lawful excuse intentionally or recklessly destroys or damages any property belonging to another.", this has nothing to do with a brand being accused of bad business.

Secondly, if the laws in Ireland set out by Data Protection Commisoner is anything like the United Kingdom (which I'm sure they are) you have no right to gain such private details from the ISP and thus will have no clue about those posting and to further complicate your wonderful post; this being a private law case I highly doubt any official authority would even bother to help you out when this isn't a criminal matter.

Perhaps you should sack your lawyer or stop talking mince.

[TopingTheGun]

For all of ye interested in going to CAA/PRI but are now reconsidering after reading this forum you should try this. Its quite obvious that there are some pretty pissed x-students of CAA here that they’ve made a career out of slagging them. Not to undermine what these guys have been through but I wanted to know how things are now. I rang Tony in the Killorglin office and asked him to set up a call with one of the students over there. Since I didn’t know if I wanted to go for fixed wing or rotary he set me up with a call from both. I ended up speaking to a few students in each house since they all live together and they had nothing but glowing reviews for the place. I even asked about the stuff posted here and we had a bit of a laugh about it. I got the real ‘inside scoop’ and I’m told that the students want for nothing and actually were given way more than what they were promised or thought. My point is that all of these guys that I spoke to can’t be ‘planted’ as is said on this forum. Whatever happened before is long since in the past and I just want to do my training where everything else is taken care of for me and its cheaper then what I would get here plus everyone who does their research knows that Canada is the best for pilot training with the weather and seasons. If you don’t want this option then go to the school yourself but I couldn’t be arsed. I’ll be over to Canada in February.

[dimey26]

Just to throw my two cents in. I came over to study the rotary course, through CAA. I started in May and received my commercial license last week, so I took me just over five months to get qualified. I had basically one on one tuition through Gateway Helicopters, which was second to none, I was put up in very nice and comfortable accommodation, the company have treated me well. I know that you could do it privately and it may be cheaper, but it has been hassle free for me, and living with guys who are studying the same course and going through it, was very beneficial for me also.

Obviously some previous students seem to have a problem with CAA, i can't comment on that as I wasn't here then, but I have no complaints at all. I'm working with the guys at the minute to sort out work after Christmas and looking forward to it.

Well there you go.

[The Rebel]

Hi! CCA legal,

Extract from the home page of your web site,
http://www.pilot.ie/images/title-arrow.gifCAA \ WelcomeCanadian Aviation Academy (CAA) strives to provide all of our students with the necessary skills to become a Professional Helicopter Pilot. This is a challenging and exciting career - that also requires hard work and dedication.

Hundreds of successful graduates are now employed as helicopter pilots in Canada as well as around the world. Ground school and flight training are designed to provide graduates with the skills and attitude necessary to operate helicopters efficiently and safely in remote and isolated locations throughout the world. The emphasis in our program is on professionalism and learning operational skills.


How many of the students that came over to North Bay are now working in the industry?

[kitshicker]

ive been trying to make a post here but i mustve been doing it wrong so this one might work rite. i was thinking of going with caa until i heard about this site, now im not so sure. its true they have been changing there name and website a lot, i first saw it last year and theres been a fair price change alrite. can some lads who are over there tell me exactly how many ppl have qualified and have jobs now? if caa can gaurantee jobs at the end of the day then it would seem ok to me, it looks like a good setup too me and you can even fly a heuy helicopter as part of youre training who else lets you do that? since dere saying theyve hundreds working around the world why cant some of them come on here and give testimonials? that would sort out whos telling lies and who isnt. sorry to put ye on the spot caa but i have to be sure before i hand over the cash:O the other thing that worries me is what happens if i deciede half way through that being a pilot is not for me or im not good at it or get sick, will u still be refunded all the cash youve paid over with the costs subtracted, or is the money payed nonrefundable? if u cant get the money back then im not taking the chance me da would :mad:ing kill me!!:eek:

[_vti]

I just want to add my two cents to this.

Having went through an aircraft engineering course in 2005, Ive seen the aircraft industry becoming more and more difficult to acquire viable employment.

I have contacted CAA and had a nice long talk with Tony Clifford and Eddie Russell and have decided to go forward with the training commencing in november 2008. Of course I asked about the future employment of ex-trainees and yes, they do say they are able to place trained hopefulls into airlines. HOWEVER... i am taking this with a grain of salt, considering the industry we are getting ourselves into.

Having that said, I am certainly not one to put too much trust into a shaken industry so Ive decided upon myself to also tack the flight instructors rating onto my training and have already sparked some interest from friends who work within other FTO's, two based in southern California and one based in Texas. I fully realise that this is just words and in no way a guarenteed job but it is interest and it is genuine (I have known these three guys for a few years)

What Im getting at, if you have failed to see, is that one cannot enter into this industry and expect a job coming out of it. It is just like any job in this industry, whether it be a Part 66 apprentice to a pilot with a freshly acquired ATPL.

The only viable way to explicidly guarantee a job coming out of this is if you were initially sponsored with an airline and were rated specifically for the airlines equipment. This is not an option anymore so self sponsorship along with self sponsored type ratings are a big requirement.

Also, CAA do offer a JAA conversion course if one wanted to convert their Transport Canada ATPL to a JAA license. There is a cost to this but one would be very nieve to expect this just handed too them. An FAA conversion is possible and is a lot easier to acquire than a JAA conversion.

A lot of you, including ex-CAA trainees, are putting way too much trust into an INCREDIBLY fragile industry! It is amazing what one can accomplish with some research.

[billymurphy]

Whew, thank God I heard about this. I was 99% ready to arrange an interview with Caa. I even went so far as to secure my funds for my training. But by chance I mentioned it to a friend of a friend in the aviation business who told me to check every potential flight school on pprune. Well it seems to me from this website that there are two very noticeable flight schools that former students are very unhappy with i.e. Caa and PTC. Even if you only believe half of what you hear (which I do), it still gives you a good idea of whats really happening and the level of customer satisfaction. Having done some research for myself, the course that Caa are offering just doesn't add up for me, especially with the exchange rate at the moment. So it looks like I'll be going to Moncton. Thanks for the help everyone!

[spinning]

If you throw enough sh*t at a wall some of it is bound to stick !

[winto22]

Hi

I am a current student attending Algonquin Flight Centre via CAA ,

I have started my training in Jan 08 and am on my way to a commercial licence with a multi and multi IFR rating , then i plan to complete the flight instructor rating ,

For all you folks doing investigation into what flight school you should attend i will honestly tell you from current first hand experience that there is nothing wrong with Algonquin Flight Centre as a training facility as it aims to train at the highest standards,

As for Canadian Aviation Academy who were pilot recruitment ireland , they have now joined with AFC hence the name change aswell ,

there is nothing wrong with a company changing its name , so stop all the BS rumors of why the company is changing its name .

Doing your training via CAA is very beneficial as they have done nothing but take care of :
Food / Spending Money :
Housing:
Transport:
Sporting Activities:
Gym :
Uniforms:
etc etc etc:

When you do your training via CAA believe me they basically make your transition here to canada / north bay very much hassle free .. and i would not regret for one minute coming here to do my training .

This company is holding well on its feet and i would be proud to say that ive trained here via this company as the instructors know what there talking about in relation to any portion of the training , air or ground ...

Of course there may have been some unsatisfied students in the past who are currently on here making up some of the most profound crap ...
No matter where you go you will encounter some forum of small problems very easily resolvable ,

The staff on board here work day in and out to provide the best they can for each attending student and so far with the current students attending the professional pilot programme there seems to be satisfaction all around,

As for the aircraft for that the students train in just to clarify in case of any confusion :

C152 x3
C172 x2
PA30 x1

For living in North Bay if anyone is wondering :
Its a nice town with located on the edge of Lake Nippissing about 4 hours north of Toronto : People are very friendly and the price of living here is very reasonable:

As for the job placement of students , The instructors help you all the way through to complete the course and help you achieve your goal of becoming a pilot , When the time is near for you finishing you will have your options presented to you :

Example :
Ramp Jobs
Instructor Rating :........

For any of you who are thinking of the airline transition they really prefer pilots with experience so by doing the instructor rating : you boost your knowledge and become more efficient in the cockpit / flying the plane , very valuable rating ..
It is possible to make a transition to the airlines here as a low time pilot but its not guaranteed .

Anyway i felt from a 1st hand honest student perspective a few things needed clarifying , if would like to PM me feel free ,

Chris:cool:

[Zyox]

as far as i know a King Air and a Navajo available soon,

Er? For training? :confused:

[Pace152]

Hi vti,

Just out of interest you say that you're thinking of getting a job in the U.S.

Unless you have American citizenship or are a very experienced Pilot I wouldn't even waste my time thinking about this - its near enough impossible to get a visa.

Just to let you know incase you we're basing you're decision on this.

[winto22]

zyox

basically its more multi time - experience - type on aircraft - and getting your multi crew checkout ,

over all it helps if u would like to work for the likes of voyager - or medivac flying etc ,

contact CAA or Algonquin for more info or if i hear any updates ill let u know

[billymurphy]

Winto22, I just have three questions regarding CAA just to put the record straight.
1. There seems to be controversy about how many students CAA have placed into jobs. Can you tell me exactly how many are in fact now working after graduating?
2. As Zyox mentioned, would students gain a King Air and Navajo rating as part of the course, or would they need to pay extra for these?
3. Do you believe that some former students were treated badly or is it just a minority complaining because they weren't committed enough?
I have decided that CAA is not the course for me, however I would be grateful if you could answer these questions and give CAA's side of the story. No one seems to want to answer these questions, which is what made me decide against Caa.
You may private message me if you feel there is something I should know.
Happy flying!
Billy

[winto22]

Hi Billy

Ill be glad to answer the question s

1: I cannot tell you an exact number as CAA have existed since before i came here.
Sorry for being vague but i cant really give a number all i know is that there a great company and i put my full trust in them as they guaranteed me a and im not even graduated yet

2: The King Air and Navajo i dont know all the ins and outs yet as its only a new
development i cannot tell u if the fee is for the training is included , when i find out i can let u know or u can just keep a track of CAA website

3: I dont believe that former students were treated badly and that is my honest opinion it was all related to personal attitude and commitment to the course , ive done enough research into that part to be able to comment on it,

im sorry from a student perspective that you do not feel this is the right school for you as i cannot see anyone coming over here and not enjoying themselves as its fantastic set up hassle free ,
If u would like to PM me feel free and ill be glad to answer an Qs if u like , i have nothing to hide so i dont mind just posting here ill be straight up with u
safe flying happy landings
winto22:cool:

[PilotWannabe82]

Hi, I have been keeping a close watch this forum as i am thinking of taking my training in canada. I noticed that many of ye are moncton fans and thought you should see this. Welcome to Moncton Flight College (http://www.mfc.nb.ca/news_view.php) I also spoke to a mate of mine who was training in moncton and is now home (he did not complete the program) and he said that moncton suspended all flight training on two occasions with no explanation but the rumour was that it was due to safety issues and they closed the school down before transport canada did. i tried to do my research on monctons incident reports and came up with this forum AVCANADA • View topic - Student Pilot clings to life after plane crash (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=36720&p=359796&hilit=moncton)
it's a bit older but it seems moncton still has safety issues - two alone in 2006 :eek:. can anyone tell me if caa/afc has had incidents like this? thanks :ok:

[_vti]

Hi vti,

Just out of interest you say that you're thinking of getting a job in the U.S.

Unless you have American citizenship or are a very experienced Pilot I wouldn't even waste my time thinking about this - its near enough impossible to get a visa.

Just to let you know incase you we're basing you're decision on this. Im not basing this training on the hope I will get a job in the US, although saying that, they FTO's I have been in communicating with have factored in visa/work permits into the equation as we have discussed this at length (I have lived in the US before and know all about the difficulty in acquiring them)

Getting back to CAA, as I said, I will be taking the instructors rating and, hopefully, start working with the FTO when everything is complete.

BillyMurphy:

I know you have made your mind up about your choice and everything but I just want to add my last cent.

This course is not something you can half ass through and expect to get everything the guy at the top of the class gets. One must really prove themselves and give the full 100% of their abilities in order to get work out of this. I mean, just for a second put yourself in a Cheif Instructors shoes and think, who would want to hire a person who didnt give the best of their abilites, especially if there are other students who have proved themselves license after license after license!

In my own mind, I am resting very easy in the sence that my money is going to a very capable bunch of people who work in an above par FTO in one of the most beautiful countries on the planet and cannot wait to get there this monday :)

I wish you the best in your studies !

-Gordon

[PilotWannabe82]

Thanks for the reply KeithTo but i knew they stopped the JAA program because of lack of instructors. I was just researching the safety incidents because that was the info i was given. is it untrue that moncton has a high level of incidents? is that where you completed your training? if so what did you make of it?

Just out of curiosity why the interest in the CAA thread? you are one of the high posters on this thread and are not a former student of CAA and you have already completed your flight training elsewhere.

[dewarg]

The statement below appeared in a previous post.

“he said that moncton suspended all flight training on two occasions with no explanation but the rumour was that it was due to safety issues and they closed the school down before transport canada did.”

There were several incidents over a period of a few days so the CEO decided on a safety stand down where all safety procedures and operational matters would be reviewed with staff and students. This is a process used by flying organizations with a strong safety culture. Transport Canada was not involved.

[pribandit]

sorry folks,another "disgruntled/disgraced" former student here...i was one of the guys who went to canada with pri/caa with zyox,we were the first students they had (despite the misleading claims of having hundreds of graduates) lads,the place is a joke.the guy who said he rang and spoke to several of the students and they cant all be "plants"..sorry my friend but yes,they can.you have no idea what these people are like.they will literally sit beside you while you speak and bully you into believing your career is over before it begins if you dont tow the party line.as has been mentioned already,there are several things that i cant really mention but suffice to say that the owners of this company are of HIGHLY questionable moral fortitude....politely put.
i had direct dealings with them when it came to testimonials,radio,newspaper etc and let me tell you these guys will ask you to brazenly lie for them.
winto 22 is a plant..you know u are winto.as for ricky1!!!ha ha,avoid this chancer like the plague lads!this lad hasnt flown a plane in over a year and currently hasnt even sat his commercial exams yet he mouths of about instructor rating etc.he has been lying for pri since day 1 but his flying career went down the tubes fairly rapidly.i can tell you hand on heart that these two lads are to be taken with more than a grain of salt.
anywho...theres no navajo or king air!the multi is perennially busted and they operate on a single 152 on a regular basis.im not disgraced or disgruntled,ive moved on with my training but PLEASE for the love of god think twice before handing over your money to these degenerate schemers.
nuff said

[bombsaway80]

I have a good friend who went over with this lot. I've been in contact with a lot of the former students who were over there, so I think I can post here with some accuracy and insight. They says there was basically 3 groups of people in the schools:
1. Messers and boozehounds who had no business going near aircraft (a minority, about 4 or 5 people)
2. Normal, motivated students who were there to work hard and make something of themselves (the vast majority of students)
3. Students who are willing to sing the praises of and plant stories on behalf on Caa, and also run to management telling tales about other students (again, a minority)

Winto22-
I don't accept for a minute that all the former students were not committed. I know of at least 3 who went elsewhere and successfully completed their training. Also, if there was an attitude problem, as you claim, it doesn't say much for the interview process at Caa that so many were allowed into the course.
Next point.
Sorry for being vague but i cant really give a numberAs you said, your answer was vague. Lets get specific then.
*Have Caa had hundreds of graduates as they are claiming? You don't need to know the exact numbers to answer this, Sir. Please don't dance around the question by repeating your post for the fifth time or telling us again how great you think Caa are.

*Have they put one or more graduates into airline jobs, which you failed to answer?

Yes, AFC have had a few incidents, like any other school. I know that one involved a student and his girlfriend who ended up going off the runway and got stuck in mud after, cough, "swerving to avoid debris on the runway":rolleyes: Incidentally, this student still only hasn't completed the course after 2 years.:D

Vti-
All the best with your new career. You brought up an interesting point though. From whom I've talked to, most decided to enroll with Caa (or Pri Academy at the time) as they were promised jobs, and thats why they paid all the extra money. So you can understand their position since Caa have never secured work for anyone. Also, I would hope you have the wisdom to see things with your own eyes, and I would encourage you to talk to everyone over there to get an even balanced side of the story, then decide for yourself. As you said, take everything with a grain of salt.

CaaLegal-I'd be very sure of my facts before making a post like that. Remember, all the former students in one courtroom giving evidence..:oh: .Perhaps you should arrange an interview with the Matt Cooper show on TodayFM and deal with the allegations head on? Or maybe the former students should arrange it hmmm? That way you can nip all these nasty, unfounded rumours in the bud. After all, you're right and they're wrong. Maybe you would care to comment on the free return flights that were promised to students last year instead of making fantastic claims about James Bond style ISP tracking?

Now, lets stay on the topic which is the Canadian Aviation Academy, instead of rambling on about Moncton.
For the record, everyone I talked to had no problems with Algonquin Flight School, so that side of things you need not worry about. Although its going to be interesting to see how Caa provide new students with a Jaa conversion, when they don't even have a Jaa instructor in AFC. Time will tell.

[TopingTheGun]

no offense Pribandit but all the negative comments about Caa have been from past students. Any student who is currently involved is loving the experience. I highly doubt the owners of the company sit beside the students while they were talking on the phone to me. come on guys ... you are gonna have to give me something real here and something that is a problem now then I will arrange another call with current students and see if it backs up.

I'm not trying to offend anyone. I just want what is right for me and I am not going to let anyone talk me out of a great thing just because they had a bad experience WAY in the past. Come on Pribandit... you say you were one of their first students I have no choice but to take what you say with a pinch of salt.

[alotaflyin]

Dear Mr. Eddie Russell - C.E.O - Canadian Aviation Academy

I completed the online application exam over 1 year ago on your website for what was P.R.I. at the time. I have absolutely nothing against you or your company CAA / PRI. I am explaining my experience and what I took from our telephone conversation.

Shortly after completing the online exam satisfactorily I received a call from yourself to arrange an interview. When I asked what exams I would need to complete to be accepted Mr Eddie Russell told me I had completed the exam successfully and once he interviewed me I would be accepted on the course.

During the telephone conversation I took notes as I usually do. I had some questions about the training that I wanted to get information on.

When we approached the topic of job prospects I was told about the instructor positions available to the students at PRI and that if I was successful in my first year I would be offered a job instructing.

Then came the topic of year three onwards and employment expectations etc. Mr Russell stated the following to me.
That a senior captain from Air Canada was associated with the school and that former students of PRI were flying for Air Canada.
That some regional and smaller air lines in Canada also had former students from PRI working for them, you specifically mentioned a direct link with Bear Skin airlines and that you had placed pilots there (only found out they existed after a search online) you also mentioned another airline but I can't make out what I wrote in my diary at the time. (writing fast to keep up with phone conversation) im not saying this is untrue but what I was told.
That Air Canada also recruit Pilots from the above mentioned regional carrier/s
That there was also great prospects to work in Africa or Asia and that they had placed a lot of newly qualified low hours pilots in airlines working within Africa.
That the Canadian professional pilots licence was one of the highest standard ATP Licences in the world and would give me eligibility to work in a lot of countries!
That I would have to complete a conversion if I wanted to work in Europe.
It was left open to suggestion as to whether i could work in FAA Land.
It was explained that extra curricular activity was pre paid as part of the course costs which in my view is a good, you live different experiences and get away from exams.
That yes accommodation and food was paid for and some flights home.
That if Canada did not suit me for training they would arrange for me to finish my training in Ireland and transfer my remaining training funds to the new school I would attend.
Based on the what was explained it seemed as though job prospects were very good.


Mr. Russell I personally have nothing against you or your company! I am merely writing here what was explained to me by yourself during a telephone conversation over a year ago. The above I have taken from the notes I made in my diary during our telephone conversation.

If it was you that came up with the concept of the course at what is now CAA then well done to you. The concept in general is very forward thinking and brings some great attributes to the course. It seems like everything has been thought of. Not everyone is good at looking after themselves food wise, money wise and accommodation wise. CAA control all those elements of the course and even have some action planned stress busting trips away paid for also. On the whole it is a unique training experience and has a lot of very unique selling points.

The points you suggested to me was I may work for Air Canada and the job opportunities were abundant. You explained that your company would work to place me in one of those fantastic jobs. May be if you sold the course focusing on its unique selling points that you can guarantee like the trips away, the food, the accommodation the flight home etc all included in the price you might have less negative comments or less disgruntled past students.

If you mention something like placing past students with Air Canada a well known Flag Carrier then it is more than likely going to come back around to haunt you. A short time after our telephone conversation I emailed Air Canada simply asking had they any direct links with training schools from whom they recruited low hours Pilots. The answer was very polite and basically made it very clear that they did not!

Mr Russell, your training approach is very different and has the potential to be fresh and new. Don't promise something you can't live up. No FTO can guarantee a job after training, least of all over a telephone conversation after completing an online exam without seeing my flying ability for real!! May be where PRI CAA have fallen down is by not focusing on the many positives your course has going for it that you can guarantee.

To me there may be some past students here that are not happy and seem to feel let down. I agree that it is impossible to please all your clients all of the time, however, there is seldom smoke without fire. These people obviously put a lot of trust in your company and feel very let down. It reflects badly that this has been allowed to escalate to you posting a legal threat to people who posted on this site. I personally don't see such a post as being completely professional or achieving a lot. It may appear as resorting to bully tactics. If you had not posted (CAA LEGAL) the thread would have been forgotten about by now. It had not received any post in the previous 5 days before you put your comment on there. It may indeed put potential students off attending your FTO.

When a customer has a problem with a service it really is a golden opportunity to win them over for good, simply by reasoning with them and meet a common ground. If that is not possible then parting ways on agreed & fair terms is the best approach. It is also wrong to threaten (CAA LEGAL) "These individuals have been identified through their internet service providers and are being investigated" as already mentioned data protection laws prevent this and if the names were provided you would be leaving yourself & company open to some serious legal risk.

Mr Russell you stated in your original post before you edited that these people would be pursued legally for "Criminal Damage" criminal damage refers to physical damage caused to property or goods. Here is the definition of "Criminal Damage" under Irish Law. http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza31y1991.1.html#zza31y1991s1 (http://acts.oireachtas.ie/zza31y1991.1.html#zza31y1991s1)

Finally I am not a past student of PRI / CAA I did consider going there but with promises of Job offers ect and Air Canada being mentioned I looked into things for myself and decided it would not be in my best interests to attend PRI.

A lot of FTO's publish on their website the number of past students and the date they passed and what airline/company/FTO they work for now. Why don't CAA do this and end a lot of speculation!?Especially the speculation that only 2 completed the fixed wing training!!!! If you had a serious issue with what was being posted in this forum and could back it up, why not contact the pprune administrators and have them investigate it and deal with the situation. They could ask the members posting to back up their claims ad if not the could reprimand or remove the posts and individuals who posted them. This surely would have been a better option than throwing you and your company in negative light with supposed legal actions and heavy handed threats!!!

This post contains both positives and negatives but is in no way intended to cause harm in any way to CAA or PRI. It is simply how I personally interpreted our telephone conversation and the posts I have viewed in this forum. This is my own personal opinion and does not reflect the opinions of others, others may interpret the postings here in a different manner than I have.

Finally Best of luck to you Mr Eddie Russell and your company and to those students who are currently attending CAA! Focus on the positives and the achievable! Stastics of previous students acheivements (if available) posted on the CAA website would soon sort out the truths from rumour and speculation!

[CharlieNicholas]

These individuals have been identified through their internet service providers and are being investigated by the revelant legal authorities in Ireland and also by their Canadian counterparts. A dossier collating patent falsehoods are being compiled for prosecution.

Dont know about the rest of you disgruntled former students, but I for one am really sh1tting myself!!!

It would actually be good for a case like that to go to court just to make public what a shambles this lot are!!

[CharlieNicholas]

For all of ye interested in going to CAA/PRI but are now reconsidering after reading this forum you should try this. Its quite obvious that there are some pretty pissed x-students of CAA here that they’ve made a career out of slagging them. Not to undermine what these guys have been through but I wanted to know how things are now. I rang Tony in the Killorglin office and asked him to set up a call with one of the students over there. Since I didn’t know if I wanted to go for fixed wing or rotary he set me up with a call from both. I ended up speaking to a few students in each house since they all live together and they had nothing but glowing reviews for the place. I even asked about the stuff posted here and we had a bit of a laugh about it. I got the real ‘inside scoop’ and I’m told that the students want for nothing and actually were given way more than what they were promised or thought. My point is that all of these guys that I spoke to can’t be ‘planted’ as is said on this forum. Whatever happened before is long since in the past and I just want to do my training where everything else is taken care of for me and its cheaper then what I would get here plus everyone who does their research knows that Canada is the best for pilot training with the weather and seasons. If you don’t want this option then go to the school yourself but I couldn’t be arsed. I’ll be over to Canada in February.


Just look at how many of us are on here telling of the horror stories. Honestly, the most unbelievable things happened over there......not with the flying or anything, it all happened outside of that. Ive said before that Im not going to say what happened on a public forum, but believe me, its not pleasant. As I said in my last post, it would be good if these chancers would take legal action against any of us, because then all the stuff that happened would come out in court. I really would love it to come out because these incidents were very very very very serious.

Anyway, as a lot of people seem to be noticing (at last), there are plenty of plants from the company on this forum. Just look at the posts from this winto bloke......has he answered any questions accurately??? NO, all he does is praise the company as much as possible. Thats what he is paid to do. And thats the exact same as Ricky used to do.

And the argument that some of the former students had the wrong attitude is a completely false statement in my opinion. All of the people I know from the course are now well on their way to finishing in other reputable schools. I for one am completing my FIR at the moment.

Dont be pulled in with the false promises of jobs and false statements. I wish I never wasted any time or money with this crowd.

But if you still insist on handing over your hard earned cash, then best of luck......you'll need it.

CN

Oh and ps..........King Air??? Navajo??? I had a good chuckle at that one. Apparently they are also gona fit 2 CFM engines on the 152 so they can provide a jet orientation course!!!!!!!!:E

[TopingTheGun]

Alotaflyin:
I mean no offence here but do you really expect people to believe that you are someone who simply had an interview with Mr. Russell an entire year ago, took notes, decided against going with CAA and kept those notes only to make this extremely lengthy post a WHOLE year later? Someone who decided against going with CAA for the reasons stated in your post most certainly would have posted them at the time it happened a full year ago instead of just signing up on Pprune now (Nov 2008) to post them.

CharlieNicholas
Again, all things that have happened previously. I don’t mean to minimize what you have went through but I’m in regular mail contact with some of the lads over there and the newest fixed wing guys completed their PPL exam in a little less than two months!! The heli guys finished their CPL five months early. Everyone who is there now is happy. The only thing I can figure out is the company fixed its problems. All the lads that are with them now are happy and getting top training.

Oh, and for the record I was not promised a job. I was told to work hard and CAA would help me in any way they could to obtain a job. I was even told that my first job would be entry level (possibly with minimal flying time) and would have to work my way up. I researched this and its pretty standard of the industry.

[Zyox]

Apparently they are also gona fit 2 CFM engines on the 152 so they can provide a jet orientation course!!!!!!!!http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

Spat my coffee out my nose at that one! :D

alotaflyin: You make many excellent points, well done on the extremely well structured, sensible, and calmly put post. Personally I find it hard at times to not get heated when talking about this whole ordeal.
I really hope people take the time to read it and take it on board before making a decision.

As I mentioned before here (I think!) I was over in AFC in August, talked to a few current students, and they do seem happy. The helicopter guys are really looked after well. The school has been upgraded since our time there, but the instructor numbers have gone down. And there's a lot of messing with the planes and upkeep of them from what I was told by the current students.
But as Charlie said there have been too many bad experiences suffered by myself and my peers in dealing with PRI/CAA (not AFC!!) for me to honestly stand up and recommend someone to train with them.

For the price, the job prospects (er? lol?), and the hassle with converting (that PRI/CAA have never put a student through yet - wouldn't want to be that guinea pig...) training in Canada if you want a job in Europe does not make sense.
If you want to train to work in Canada, which should be noted that you need a university/college degree to get in with a major carrier like Air Canada over there, then by all means do it. It is a fantastic place to train, the flying is amazing, and the quality of services for general aviation over there is second to none.

But please... stop and think for a minute.

Just get yourself some discipline, sit down and think, and plan it out. You can easily, with a tad extra effort, go directly to a flight school yourself while organising your own food and accomodation. You do not need to pay this overpriced fee. Especially when you compare it to 0-fATPL courses in Ireland/UK which are closely priced except the cost of fly here is three to four times the cost of that in Canada!
It turns my stomach to think that these lads are still "recruiting" gullible innocent people that simply aren't informed enough about the process of becoming an airline pilot. I feel sorry for them :-/

Some of you might think things have changed based on calling student houses etc, and maybe they have, but are you willing to stake a year in another country and 80k on it? After all the back and forth here from past students?

Someone said it perfectly, where there's smoke there's fire.
The hardest part of flight training is not the exams, the flight tests, or the goddamn 1 in 60 rule; it's picking your FTO. Take all the help you can get and weigh it up. Please.

[alotaflyin]

No offence taken! You are entitle to your opinion and are entitled to express it, as am I. May be you miss read parts of my post, I did state in my post that I had kept a note in my diary. I am use to keeping a diary especially when trying to make very important decisions that can have relatively large financial implications. I took these notes in my diary as my questions were answered over my telephone conversation with Mr Eddie Russell. How else is one to way up the pros and cons of all the different FTO’s! One may even mix up what one FTO had said with what another FTO if notes are not kept. As Zyox had said “sit down and think, and plan it out.”

I had learned to keep notes in a previous career where it was important to keep a record of meetings telephone calls and conversations that took place, it was important to keep a date and time record. A diary being the easiest way of doing this. After reading the posts here I looked back through my last year’s diary knowing I had kept a record on whatever day I had the phone conversation. I didn't simply scribble it a few pieces of paper to have a miraculous doscovery at a convenient time a year later. I personally didn't see the need to run to the pprune network and post my comments. I was trying to make a decision that was going to have huge financial implications on MY life; my priority at the time was gathering information to make the right decision for ME !!

Neither did I run to the pprune network a year ago when I was told by the lovely sales representative in PTC that Ryanair told them they would take every recruit they produced for the next 5 years!! (At the time I was slightly green and was not aware of covering my own Type Rating Costs for FR!) The lovely sales assistant didn’t seem to be aware of it either as she never mentioned it!

The points I make above are simply to put perspective on the whole topic here. Some FTO’s like a lot of commercial entities will tell you certain truths and leave aspect of what they say open to interpretation! This is the world we live in and businesses need to make money.

And Yes like YOU TopingTheGun Join Date: 15th oct 2008 (WE ARE BOTH NEW MEMBERS TO THE PPRUNE NETWORK) along with other NEW MEMBERS who are training in CAA presently! (OCT 2008). Like you all my posts are made within this thread!!

How lucky are we that we all just happened to join here just as this thread was getting juicy!!

When we leave all our ego’s and pride to one side maybe all us new members here on pprune who happened to join at a time when this thread interested us is we are simply trying to protect our identity thus protecting our future prospects and may be allow us to get our feet onto the bottom rung of the ladder in an industry that is very small!

And apologies TopingTheGun for putting you through the torture of having to read another extremely long post of mine. May be it’s somewhat self inflicted. Likewise No offence intended!

[CharlieNicholas]

topingthegun..............

You remind me of ricky actually. He thought he was gona be in the next top gun movie. are u a plant or are you just another one of these guys who thinks he's gona be shooting down mig's in a couple of years?? I think its the former.

I couldn't be arsed trying to give you any more advice, you obviously have some money burning a hole in your pocket. Go give it to Pilot Recruitment Ireland/Pilot Recruitment International/Canadian Aviation Academy, you're too stubborn/naive to change your mind. Im sure they'll invest it wisely for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! You'll see what I mean when you go over.:ok:

[TopingTheGun]

Hey Alotaflyin,
I apologize for the tone of my previous post. It is very hard for me to read this forum and see the harsh attacks people against CAA put on the people for CAA and I firmly believe that a lot of it is below the belt and like Zyox states, it is difficult not to get heated. This is the school that I signed up for and I have always been a team player. I believe that you are someone who fully researches your choices and because of that benefit I would like to ask you which FTO did you decide upon? Are you currently training with that FTO and what do you make of it? I agree with what you said that maybe if we all put our egos away we may actually get somewhere.

[bombsaway80]

Hey where did the post from Caa Legal go? That one was a classic. Please tell me someone kept a copy of it. Or was it the moderator that removed it?

[PPRuNe Towers]

They removed the post themselves having also tried to get the whole thread removed using a year's proposed advertising on PPRuNe as leverage.

I suspect you can work out for yourselves our reaction to that.:ok:

It's also been great seeing the agrarian revolution in action with plants sprouting in abundance. Many of you have spotted it yourself - inept naivety but bless anyway.

My particular favourite was this far more 'sophisticated' attempt suggesting independence of thought and opinion:

"I don’t mean to minimize what you have went through but I’m in regular mail contact with some of the lads over there."

Pity it was sent from the same IP address in Canada as the other happy new sign ups.

Email? Couldn't they just talk to each other?

Rob

[alotaflyin]

topingthegun

I believe that you are someone who fully researches your choices and because of that benefit I would like to ask you which FTO did you decide upon? Are you currently training with that FTO and what do you make of it? I agree with what you said that maybe if we all put our egos away we may actually get somewhere.


Why would I give my personal details away on a public forum such as this. I have no intention of drawing a map to where i might be or to my identity! One thing i can assure you is that I am certainly not training or intending to train at CAA!

My first time on his planet was not in that heavy shower of rain two weeks ago that resulted in a lot of new plants sprouting up around the North Bay area of Canada. topingthegun sorry if i am being harsh but with all the new sign ups specifically for this thread I don't want to leave myself open to problems down the line!!

If your question was genuine then I do apologise but I’m really not prepared to broadcast my identity on this thread or clues that may lead to it. As i said I wish to cause trouble for no one! One thing i really detest is bullying, intimidation and heavy handed threats. Once in my life I would have felt very intimidated & insecure by such behaviour but I have learned that usually the intimidators are the ones who have something to hide and more consequences to suffer than the people on the receiving end of their threats and behaviour. (I wonder are the proprietors and management of Algonquin Flight Centre aware of this thread and the behaviour of CAA surrounding this)


All I will say is that no FTO are without their problems. When choosing one try and have a REALISTIC plan as to the companies you might wish to be employed by. When I say this I am also talking about work like balance rosters, days off etc. It’s a job at the end of the day and everyone needs to be realistic about the work life balance. Do you want to be away from home during the week. Would a work pattern of 6-on 4-off / 5-on 2-off suit you and your family etc! Look at the entire picture and start with what the airlines look for in a person.

If a problem does arise during training don't allow personality clashes or ego to get in the way. TRY to remain calm and keep a record of everything. Put you complaint or issue in writing politely but firmly and try to take an unbiased approach when dealing with the issue. When ego's, temper and personality clashes become involved it’s the beginning of the end!

(please excuse my spelling and grammatical errors in my posts, they are very hurried and I have little time to spend on this forum and should complete posts in a less hurried manner!)

[alotaflyin]

PS Moderators, if I have broke any posting rules by placing this copy here then please let me know and i will remove it immediately!

____________________________________________________________ ______________

Pprune Towers - Rob thank you for your honesty in your post here about the behaviour of the CAA towards your team at pprune. It speaks volumes about the FTO, I just hope the young guys over there are not the subject of such behavior. And apologies for post now deleted!

[PPRuNe Towers]

I'd like you to delete it please alotaflyin as you have the same right to remove posts if you change your mind. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Secondly I'd like you to remove it as it closes with a bit of blatant marketing.

And finally because it is all too easy to infer that it is posts on PPRuNe that are subject to their tracking investigations. At no point do they clearly refer to the posts being on their own forum. A suprising lack of clarity.

Rob

[CharlieNicholas]

Well thank god for that. Thanks for that post Rob, I knew they were up to something. And when I opened my private messages today, I had a PM from a certain member (who toping the gun reminded me of), asking why I was personally attacking him. Now this person hasn't been too active over the past few months, but then just happened to log on yesterday to see the posts................coincidence??:=

At least it is all out in the open now what has been happening. What a cheek.

Let this be a lesson folks, think very very carefully who you give your money too.

And well done to all at Pprune for their good work:D

[pribandit]

topingthegun:It is very hard for me to read this forum and see the harsh attacks people against CAA put on the people for CAA and I firmly believe that a lot of it is below the belt.......pribandit:....wow

[alotaflyin]

Ricky1 (posted 14th March 2007, 17:28)

PRI believe on hiring from within their own pool or students. I will be doing my instructor rating soon and have too many options on where I want to go work at the moment its unreal. I will get an airline job from PRI and that says a lot compared to other FTO's who train you and basically through you out on your arse after you done your training.

I am sick of hearing from other friends of mine in a lot of FTO's across the world been promised something and it not been true at all. I feel really bad that I'm here doing so well and they have nobody to help them. I have seen first hand the contacts PRI has and it almost too good to be true..




Hi Ricky1

If you happen to browse this thread may be you would fill us in on how you are doing at present. The post quoted above was placed on pprune in March 2007 that is 1 year and 8 onths ago. If you feel like answering could you let us know if you are now employed? Are you instructing for CAA? I am assuming from your post that you are approaching your third year? If so what professional pilot positions have CAA / Pri set up for you considering all the " almost to good to be true.." contacts they have within the industry. I don't expect you to answer with personal details here!!!!! But if you could place an accurate post it may balance some of the negativity towards CAA even if some of it has been self inflicted!

Regards
Alotaflyin

[bombsaway80]

I must say, I felt a sense of triumph, if not downright vindication, when I read the mod's post yesterday about how CAA tried to lean on pprune to remove this thread.
These guys will do anything to try and discredit the former students or stop them speaking out. Sorry Mr. Russell, but you simply can't sweep this under the carpet or try and buy your way out of trouble. Did you really think students were just going to forget about the outrageous promises made by you and your company?
It is also obvious that CAA are suffering badly from the negative publicity, and given the state of the economy, its not hard to predict that there are going to be rocky times ahead. My advice to current students: move fast to finish your training while the ship is still afloat.

To Rob at pprune:
Sir, I salute you. It's good to know that there are still some people out there with the moral courage to stick to their guns and fight the good fight. It would have been all too easy to accept the cash "incentive" and sell all the students down the river. Did they offer an incentive to provide ISP addresses too?

topingthegun:
nice attempt at luring alotaflyin out into the open. You could almost call it clever, but not quite.:= Better luck next time 007.

vti:
I am resting very easy in the sence that my money is going to a very capable bunch of people
Oh Gordon, Gordon, Gordon. There are many colourful terms one could use to describe CAA. Capable is certainly not one of them. Have you researched if there is a get out clause should you decide not to continue your training and want a refund? Better get it in writing and signed if there is......which I doubt it. Anyway, let us know how you get on, and please do it of free will, not under duress. The good and the bad please.
Welcome to the Jungle is all I can say......

Anyone think anymore about telling their story to the media? I know a journalist who has been keeping an eye on things here. Knows a good story when she see's one....

[Zyox]

Wow. Walked into my current FTO yesterday (I'm converting my Canadian license - taking a while with the Irish weather but what's the rush now :rolleyes:) and a student I know was all talk about the PPRuNe thread all PRI/CAA.
He was never with them or even thought about going over there, but I laughed at how so many people know about these guys and have talked to people over there and heard the horror stories. I told him a few myself, stuff that I won't ever post here, and he was open-mouthed shocked at what he heard. Hopefully those considering going over, being misguided by the marketing lies, will see sense. And that's all I'll say.

Rob: Fair play. Great to see the moderators doing a bang up job.

If someone has a copy of the CAA-legal post could they PM it to me? I'd really like to have it :}

[bombsaway80]

Well it seems all's quiet on the western front.......:ouch:
Hey does anyone remember the by now infamous PRI Aerobatics team that was once actually offered as an employment alternative?!!!! You couldn't make this stuff up.....Hang on, actually you could! :yuk: Over to you, CAA....

http://www.priforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=213&d=1181747974

And don't bother trying to remove all the articles CAA, they've already been saved...:{

Here are the rest....
Canadian Aviation Academy In The News - Canadian Aviation Academy Forum (http://www.priforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=22)

[pribandit]

THE AEROBATIC TEAM!!id forgotten about that!a certain director of the company who has 250 hours in 152's and 172's and hasnt flown a plane in about 2 years was gonna be the captain..cos that was "his lifelong dream"!!priceless...i also remember having a hysterical middle aged woman literally drag me into the diner she owned to berate me over the fact that pri had an account with her for student dinners only to welch on the bill and the aforementioned director had given her a fake phone number in the first place!great way to do buisness in a small town..wasnt the last time that stunt was pulled either

[bombsaway80]

I've just had an interesting conversation with my reporter friend this morning. She's definitely following up the story here, it looks like there's going to be an article about CAA in one of the national newspapers shortly. It seems one of the students that was badly treated has some interesting family connections....:ok:
If you are willing to tell your story and expose these guys for once and for all, pm me and I will supply you with her number at the office. I asked her about confidentiality, and she said you won't be named should you ask it. It's about time the former students stood up and exposed what was going on here. It really is up to you. The wheel is about to turn on CAA..........;)

[bombsaway80]

Baaaaaaahaha.....
Just saw the new flashy website for the CAA (is that the fourth or fifth time its been changed now?), no sign of our good friend Mr. Eddie Russell C.E.O., what gives? I hope his antics on here haven't caused any friction within the company?....:eek:
Has anyone else heard the rumour that Gateway helicopters has closed it's doors this season? Something I heard on the grapevine, anyone got any info on that?
I think its pretty shameful that they don't even have the decency to mention that Ron Macdonald is deceased, but instead use his image to plug their company. Nice touch guys, really nice.
In the meantime, any sign of a twin engine plane coming online this year so that last years students can finally finish up after having to wait around for the last 6 months?
Very cunning how they removed the fleet of aircraft from the website. Maybe they don't have a king air after all......
Gotta love the desperate marketing trick too -"step right up folks, only a limited number of places available! Get em here while you still can!" If this doesn't smack of desperation, I don't know what does. Priceless stuff!- Pilot.ie - 2009 Airplane Course Dates (http://www.pilot.ie/content/view/56/)
Hmmm no mention of a JAA instructor at the school. Strange, that....:=

But my favourite bit by far has to be the bit about jobs afterwards- Pilot.ie - Job prospects for Canadian pilots (http://www.pilot.ie/content/view/3/9/)
Translation: We filled this section with company speak and random facts (The Canadian Military is experiencing a shortage of pilots and is actively recruiting, you know) to hide the fact that basically, we haven't a clue how to get work for you. Cheerio, and thanks for the cash suckers!:p

[alotaflyin]

I see that this crowd are now advertising under the guise of Algonquin Flight Centre Canada, they must own the place now! They are advertising on the flying in Ireland website.

They are advertising CPL/Multi IR for just under 40K doesn't state if its JAA training or not

When you check out the site it is the same web address as the other sites PRI - CAA used to use.

[bombsaway80]

Hmmm.....my sources inform me that CAA have indeed purchased the full share of the flight school. Thats the end of them then, if the financial management of the last 3 years is anything to go by.
I think that probably wouldn't be a JAA licence either for 40k, that'll be an extra 75 million euros for that please! Some fella was saying that they plan on doing the JAA training in Greece if you don't mind. I wonder who pays for the food and accomodation out there?
Also, it seems our little plant friends were getting a bit brave again there recently, I had to prune one, if you'll excuse the pun:}
http://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/357123-flying-school-ireland.html
Speaking of plants, anyone know how Ricky or Winto22 are doing these days?

[winto22]

Hi Bombsaway80

this is winto22 , im doing fine thanks and urself , im actually spending alot of time doing my flight training actually if uve been wondering what ive been doing wiht my time , thats the reason im actually here if u couldnt have figured that one out by now ,

it really seems u obviously have nothing better to do with ur time than to speak in a negative manner about this flight school , if u only knew how nobody really care what crap our actually talking on this forum, about this school ,

do u really think we believe that u are going to print something in the national newspaper , ??? u have nothing on this school , and i mean absolutely nothing , i know who u are as well as alot of the other idiots who talk on the forum to try and put down the school ,

i haeve to admit u can moan and groan on here all u want and try to prevent people from coming to this establishment but ur wasting ur time cause people will just find out for themselves like people have been doing and there is no complaints ,

it about positive attitude , commitment , motivation and teamwork ,

have fun wasting ur time along with all ur other time wasting friends on this forum ,

hope u enjoyed hearing from me, bombsaway80 ( by the way what a terrible screen name ) i wouldnt be suprised if u had quite a few other screen names u were working under aswell , :ok:

Au Revior et Bon Chance
:*

[Zyox]

http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/%7Emagluby/pics/bertie.jpg

These lads dodge straight forward questions put to them better than the big fellas.
You'd make Bertie proud boys!

[alotaflyin]

winto22


im actually spending alot of time doing my flight training actually



thats the reason im actually here



it really seems u obviously have nothing better to do with ur time



if u only knew how nobody really care what crap our actually talking on this forum


i know who u are as well as alot of the other idiots who talk on the forum

you type in this forum not talk!


it about positive attitude


have fun wasting ur time along with all ur other time wasting friends on this forum


Winto22

PRICELESS -
What an outstanding advertisement you are for your flight training organisation and the calibre of your fellow students. I hope your spelling and grammar skills are drastically improved before you attempt to put a CV together. What an impression you must be making!
If you don’t understand that may be you will this;
:8What a actually outstandin ad u r 4 ur flight training organisation actually and the calibre of ur fellow students! Obviously actually i hope ur grammar skills actually obviously drastically improved before u obviously actually attempt to put a actual cv together. What an impression u must be actually making obviously!:8
Mate sometimes it’s better to keep your head down mouth shut and just get on with your flight training, especially when you throw the word idiot around!
Yet again, another numpty from CAA bringing the CAA thread back to the lime light. Your mistakes above don’t say much for the entrance exams CAA conduct! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:
Does no one in that place have any sense. Keep your heads down get on with your training and away from childish bitching which draws negative attention to your FTO. Someone there falls for it every time. :ugh::ugh:

I am not bombsaway and there is no possible way you could know who I am!

[ivanwhitemac]

Its called shorthand, alotaflyin!!!!! People use it nowadays its acceptable in these circumstances. Its not rocket science he's talking about. It's a forum post. It doesn't have to have the best grammar in the world!!! If you had any intelligence you should be able to understand it without any difficulty!!!!! And this forum is not to discuss grammar anyway.....................STICK TO THE POINT!!!!!!!!!:D

Oh, and about those questions that we apparently seem to be dodging, someone ask them again and we will answer what we can truthfully. That's what we have always done on this forum. I'm looking forward to them!!!!

[alotaflyin]

Ok

Getting back to the point Ivan. When are you expecting to start that amazing flying career with Air Canada or one of those African airlines you said you were promised live on air on a regional Radio station???

Radio stations have archives and a quote during the interview was " CAA have a direct link with Air Canada and have placed pilots with alot of airlines" :ok:

PS: short hand is very different from what was typed above and anyone educated enough could realise that!

Finally you are only in that FTO since late last year, any information YOU could provide from before the date you arrived there is simply here say. You did not directly witness what happened there before you arrived! Anything you were told and in turn type here is simple here say coming through a third or fourth party! Your FTO have already shown up how underhanded they are by trying to bride PPRUNE to delete this thread by offering a proposed years advertising. That level of dishonesty cannot be defended under any circumstances.

[ivanwhitemac]

alotaflyin,

I never planned to work with Air Canada or an African airline. CAA never claimed to have a link with either, and they don't promise any student that they will walk straight into a job with either. I have a recording of my radio interview, and nowhere in the interview was that mentioned. Maybe you are talking about another interview???? If that is the case, I don't know about any other interviews. All I know is that that quote wasn't mentioned in my interview.

And yes I know what proper shorthand is too.

I don't know what appened at the school before I arrived here, and I don't care. Both myelf and my fellow students believe it's the present that matters, not the past, whether its true or false. My belief is that all that is false. But it's the present and future that matter, and I couldn't have been any more satisfied with what I've seen since I arrived here. As for the proposed advertising matter, I never heard about that until you guys started mentioning it. What is your source of information on that?????

Everybody in CAA have been totally down to earth with us and have been totally honest about everything, from what I've seen anyway.

[alotaflyin]

Ivan


PPRUNE moderators and admin are the source. Go back one page on this forum and read post number 69. It explains the whole underhanded affair along.
If you are satisfied with your training to date and things are working out well for you and your fellow students over there then good for you. I wish you every success!
The main issue that was taken up here were issues over dishonesty and false promises mainly coming from one source and that was MR Eddie Russell CEO. I like a few others applied long before you and were told a lot of un –truths in order to get people to sign up! That behaviour was unfair and false advertisement. Hell the guy even said on a news paper he was setting up an aerobatic team in the school! There are link on this forum to the PR in the national and regional news papers. I’m glad to see that they are now concentrating on what they can offer!
I’m glad to hear that you were not promised any pretend jobs with airlines and that everything is above board. If everything is going to plan then keep it that way. I will try post a link to the interview on this site it later today!



Safe Flying

[bombsaway80]

Ok Smartypants, here’s a list of questions that you ought to know the answers to, since you apparently know the entire history of PRI/CAA down to the last detail, and of course you are right about everything.
Twelve questions, twelve answers please!
1.How many students have completed the fixed wing and Helicopter Courses, and where are they now? How many are now employed ‘around the world’ to quote the former CAA website? I’ll give you a clue-2 fixed wing and 4 helicopter pilots. None have found work through or with the help of CAA, and are not likely to either. Also, why were they claiming to have work for students in BC and Alberta when they clearly didn't?

2.Why were CAA claiming up until a month ago that they could get a 3 year open work visa for their students, when in fact they don’t qualify for any work visa programme, and never have? It’s also worth pointing out that they have never even secured a work visa for a qualified student, let alone a job.

3.Why were students promised return flights in 2007 that were never honoured?

4.Why were the police called last year when a certain director showed up at one of the flight schools and proceeded to make threats?

5.Would you like to comment on the allegation that new students were being told to avoid the current students as they were, quote, “a bunch of a**holes”? Really great way to talk about your customers, does wonders for morale too.

6.What about the phone calls that were made to students and their families by the directors, any comment there for us?

7.What about the ludicrous claims by Mr Eddie Russell CEO that a criminal case was being compiled by the Canadian and Irish authorities to deal with us pesky ppruners, and that our ISP’s addresses had been traced?

8.Not only that, CAA then had the nerve to ask pprune to delete the thread in exchange for a years advertising. Pprune, to their eternal credit, told them to get stuffed.

9.Is there an aerobatics team at the school, as claimed in one of the newspaper articles? (stop sniggering at the back!)

10.More of a personal comment, but why were you singing the praises of a company in a radio interview when you hadn’t even been over to Canada? Seems odd to me...Your pal Winto was doing the same thing after a week in North Bay until someone told him to shut his face as he hadn’t a clue what he was on about.

11.O Riordan as an instructor, when did this happen? Is he instructing presently?

12. And finally..........Why are all you lads so bloody gullible?

To be honest I feel pity for you more than anything, you’re obviously trying to show your dedication to the company, and ordinarily this would be no bad thing. However, you’re just doing what others have done before you, and in the end you find out that all the hard work was for nothing and you’ll end up getting shafted by CAA who won’t deliver on what they promised, with management not even bothering to return your phone calls. But that’s the path you’ve chosen, and you’ll learn the hard way.
As for you Winto, great if you know who I am, I couldn’t care less. As for my bad name, it could be a lot worse. Like the guy who swans around North Bay with ‘MAVERICK” printed on his T Shirt, ring any bells? That’s just too sad for words...
But enough of the handbags stuff.:{

[The Rebel]

Re: Ivanwhitemac, winto22, etc

Its good to see all well in North Bay (flight school), i have only a two questions:

How much does your course cost from Ireland?
How much does your course cost from Canada?


From what i have seen there is huge difference, don't tell us its expensive to in North Bay.

[ivanwhitemac]

Bombsaway,

If you read my last post, you would have noticed the following quote in it:

I don't know what happened at the school before I arrived here, and I don't care. Both myself and my fellow students believe it's the present that matters, not the past, whether its true or false. My belief is that all that is false. But it's the present and future that matter, and I couldn't have been any more satisfied with what I've seen since I arrived here.

I don't know the entire history of CAA & I don't claim to know it either. I only know what I know, and what has been proven to me.

Here are your 12 answers, from what knowledge I know of the place:

1. I don't know for sure how many students have completed the courses, and have found work. I don't care about that. Before I came to Canada I researched A LOT of flight schools, and this one seemed to be the best option. They never said to me that they would guarantee me a job, only that they would try to find me a job when I finish, same as any other flight school. I've heard students from other flight schools complaining about the same thing. One thing I do know is that CAA is not like one of the other schools who rush their students through and have huge classes. CAA treats everyone on an individual basis, which is one of the main reasons why I chose them.
As for them finding work for students in BC and Alberta, I don't know about that & I don't care about it. I never planned on staying in Canada after finishing my training so that doesn't concern me.

2. Again doesn't concern me as I don't want to work in Canada.

3. I don't know about that, doesn't concern me.

4. Don't know, doesn't concern me.

5. I was never told that by any staff member of CAA. I can judge people for myself.

6. Never heard about it. Maybe because certain students weren't putting their full committment into the course, turning up late for flights, cancelling flights??????

7. Never heard about it, doesn't concern me.

8. Same as Q. 7.

9. No aerobatics team as of yet, didn't see that newspaper article.

10. The purpose of the interview was to talk about pilot training, not to sing the praises of the company. So far anything talked about in the interview has come true, and both myself & the other student interviewed are very satisfied.

11. Not as yet, we are managing fine at the moment when it comes to instructors. Not a matter that concerns me.

12. We are not gullible. We only believe what we see & what has been proven to us. We make up our own minds when we hear rumours. We don't fall for anything until we have seen evidence.

There's what I know. I don't care about the rumours, etc. All I'm here for is to train to be a pilot, not to listen to rumours, of which I've seen no evidence. And so far I think the school has been fantastic, the people have been fantastic, & the experience has been fantastic. So far we are on course to finish on time, & I have no regrets of coming to this flight school.

[ivanwhitemac]

The Rebel,

The reason CAA are more expensive than going straight to Algonquin is because the Algonquin package just includes the basic flight training.
The CAA package includes the flight training along with many extras, which include: transport, weekly food allowance, accomodation, electricity, internet access, monthly social outings (eg. paintball, skydiving, etc.), and more stuff. If you compare it to any other Irish flight school, it's much better value for money. They only include the basic flight training, with no accomodation, etc thrown in & they STILL end up being more expensive than CAA!!!!!!!!!

[The Rebel]

Re: Ivanwhitemac,

The cost of the course that you are doing is 67,000 euro (100,500 Canadian Dollars approx), if you had gone to the flight school from canada it costs less than 50,000 Canadian Dollars, it does not cost more than a 1,000 dollars per month for food, travel, accomodation, electricity and internet access in North Bay.

So that leaves a difference of 38,000 dollars approx

The CAA package includes the flight training along with many extras, which include: transport, weekly food allowance, accomodation, electricity, internet access, monthly social outings (eg. paintball, skydiving, etc.), and more stuff.


Your monthly social outing must be very good since you are paying 750 dollars for them.

Where have you since the start of the new year?

We are not gullible

Are you really going to tell me you are happy to pay extra 38,000?

I think that before you give advice to anyone to come over to North Bay, you should inform them that its a lot cheaper to go directly to the flight school.

[The Rebel]

Re: above

Your monthly social outing must be very good since you are paying 750 dollars approx per week for them.

[ivanwhitemac]

The Rebel,

I don't care if it's cheaper to go straight to Algonquin or not. I chose CAA because it saved me a lot of hassle because if I had gone straight to Algonquin I would have had to have found my own accommodation, food, transport, etc etc. If there's anyone ripping people off it's those other flight schools back in Ireland. I found it a huge advantage when CAA organised everything for me, including my visa. I would have found it extremely intimidating to have arrived in Toronto that first day & to have to find my own way to North Bay, & then find accomodation, transport, etc. The other current students also found that a huge advantage. And they are STILL CHEAPER THAN ANY OTHER IRISH FLIGHT SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Rebel]

Re: Ivanwhitemac,

don't care if it's cheaper to go straight to Algonquin

I really find it hard to believe that, and all the other Irish that are there feel the same about been over charged by 38,000 dollars.

That might explain why our country is in such a state financially.

Do you know how bad things are in Ireland now?

1.How many students have completed the fixed wing and Helicopter Courses, and where are they now? How many are now employed ‘around the world’ to quote the former CAA website? I’ll give you a clue-2 fixed wing and 4 helicopter pilots. None have found work through or with the help of CAA, and are not likely to either. Also, why were they claiming to have work for students in BC and Alberta when they clearly didn't?


1. I don't know for sure how many students have completed the courses, and have found work. I don't care about that.

Don't think that they are going to help you either.

[bombsaway80]

I don't know what happened at the school before I arrived here, and I don't care. Both myself and my fellow students believe it's the present that matters, not the past, whether its true or false. My belief is that all that is false. But it's the present and future that matter, and I couldn't have been any more satisfied with what I've seen since I arrived here.Well that's fine for you, but you can't comment on what other people have experienced since you don't know. Glad you admit it.

I found it a huge advantage when CAA organised everything for me, including my visa. I would have found it extremely intimidating to have arrived in Toronto that first day & to have to find my own way to North Bay, & then find accomodation, transport, etc.A fair enough point, but was it worth spending an extra 35-40 thousand euro? Where you could have taken that money and spent it on a airliner rating? Is it really that hard to pick up the phone and sort out accomodation, flights etc from Ireland? I would say no, what with this new internet malarky...

One thing I do know is that CAA is not like one of the other schools who rush their students through and have huge classes.Now this is an interesting point. You are right, CAA don't rush their students through. Usually because the planes weren't online for students when they went up to the school to fly. And do you think CAA would be sympathetic to the students? No, they were told to find their own accomodation and food if they weren't finished after a year, it wasn't CAA's problem. That's treating the customer well isn't it? Hopefully you won't find yourself in the same situation...but then again, that probably "doesn't concern you" since it was "in the past".

Now you are more than welcome to come on here giving your experience of the school (which no one has a problem with, by the way), but it's only fair that you also advise potential students of ways in which they can save money instead of trying to get them to go through O Riordans grubby paws. Then let them decide. Fair?

Hey Winto, any chance you would answer the big twelve questions? I know you're reading this....and none of this "I don't know, it doesn't concern me stuff either". You definitely do know....:ok:

[winto22]

Sure why not , ill give them a shot :

Q1: Honestly i dont mind how many students have completed the course to date thats not my concern, All i know is that i will complete the course and thats what matters to me,

Q2: I didnt hear anything about a 3 year work permit, all i know is that i will be assisted in obtaining my work permit, ill find out at the time how long its valid for and ill renew it if i have too.

Q3: I have no idea about students being promised return flights in 2007 i wasnt here so i cant comments about that

Q4: I dont have any memory of a police incident as mentioned in Q4

Q5: Well as for new students staying away from old students: The term a**hole i dont know about but , there were a few ex students here who i believe were in conflict and it was best that they remained clear , wheather they were told to do that i dont know im sure the new students can figure that out for themselves

Q6: Dont know

Q7: Dont know

Q8: Dont know

Q9: I believe that the school will eventually be able to provide aerobatics training for stuents who wish to persue that area, As for an Aerobatics Team I dont know about that, i believe its just the training aspect ,

Q10: Nobody told me to shut my face after a week of being here that is a comment blown well out of proportion:

Q11: He does have a FI Rating and does plan to continue instructing i believe

Q12: Were not all gullible we can make our own judgements based on what we know :

Final Statement : My Mavrick T - Shirt i have only met one person in this town since i bought the shirt who decided to be childish enough to make fun of it , i actually dont wear it all the time i got it as a gift and if someone like yourself is gonna have to stoop as low as to make fun of , it just shows your looking for the most irrelevent , idiotic stuff to mention , you really do need to get a life : and if this is your life may GOD HELP YOU :sad::ok:

[bombsaway80]

if someone like yourself is gonna have to stoop as low as to make fun of , it just shows your looking for the most irrelevent , idiotic stuff to mention , you really do need to get a life : and if this is your life may GOD HELP YOU http://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gifhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
This coming from the guy who said this.....
hope u enjoyed hearing from me, bombsaway80 ( by the way what a terrible screen name

See what I did there? I used your own statement against you....very clever, no? So maybe you should hold off on calling people idiots...
Pot. Kettle. Black.:ugh:
And sorry to spoil your dreams, but the chances of you getting a work visa in this present climate are slim indeed. You might have had a chance a year ago, but there is talk of the government freezing all work visa's for foreign students. So the school will be forced to hire Canadian instructors only.:{
As for question 1, I didn't ask you if you minded how many students had finished, I asked you specifically how many students had finished, and how many were working now. Since CAA are claiming to have hundreds of graduates that are working around the world. And you do know the answer to that, so why don't you answer it and cut the bs?

[winto22]

well thats your opinion , im sure i will get a work permit just fine thanks regardless of the economy,

i dont know of claims of hundreds working all around the world,
regardless if u use the word idiot or not , its probably the most applicable word to some of you outrageous claims, anyway just wanted to say GOODBYE , i really dont have time to play all day on this terrible out of proportion thread ,

good luck with ppruning bombsaway80

[bombsaway80]

Byeeeeeeeeeeeeee.........don't let the door hit you on the way out!:D



Now another question that has been bugging me. What ever happened to the 3 CAA guys that went to gateway? Did CAA ever find them work in the end? I remember Murt Kennedy coming on here saying they had all been offered work.....

[bombsaway80]

Soooooo........
According to their website, there should be 3 students starting on March 2nd.
It should be interesting to see what happens.:)

[bombsaway80]

Well it looks like those 3 students didn't start in March. Or April for that matter. What a surprise...

[The Rebel]

Six months without a reply on this thread,

Whats the news with CAA?

Since they don't appear to have any new students comming, Will CAA be able to pay Algonquin Flight School the fees for the students that are still in North Bay?

Can the students that spoke so highly of CAA in the past, post a reply.

Which Airline are you working at?

[DJRC]

:(Algonquin Flight Centre has folded due to financial problems, last flight schedule was 28th October. The office is being cleared out and the planes made ready for sale. It is a great shame, the school, instructors and training programs were always great, all the bad press was associated with those charletons at PRI/CAA. I think the school should have worked harder to market itself instead of relying on the incoming new students from the PRI/CAA pyramid scheme, which was always a ticking time bomb.

[Zyox]

Despite all the bad press PRI/CAA have been getting on here that's a really big shame about the flight school. I always had a lot of time for the AFC guys. Pity :(

[Pjlot]

I feel very bad for any students that may have been there!

Unfortunately if you put in place a CEO who is more interested in promoting his own EGO and unprofessionalism (as seen on various threads here via the username CAA LEGAL) than actually running a business this is what happens.

I think the day Algonquinn decided to associate itself with PRI - CAA - (never knew what to call them they changed name too much) was the day that their reputation was tarnished and faith doomed. Its such a pity because I believe that they had been quite a good training facility prior to the association with said company.

[twopointfivefour]

Well it's a pity about the school. Did anyone see the article in the Sunday World at the weekend? Diarmuid O Riordan got a total roasting. Looks like there are a lot of angry students out there. Have legal proceedings been issued against him or what? Is he still floating around North Bay? Can he be extradited if there are legal proceedings against him?

PRI Academy/ Canadian Aviation Academy | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/55426064@N02/5140831513/)

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[Zyox]

Pity it only went straight to a red top :/