Petition for a Military Hospital

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

see the link below:

Petition to: Create a dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital within the UK. (http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Wounded/)

Not convinced that it will have much effect; however there are over 40,000 signatures. Apologies if this has already been posted - I didn't see it.

Duncs:ok:

[Double Zero]

The snag with this is, while I'm sure EVERYONE reading your post will agree to the sentiment, they will also ask, like me, why the hell does this have to be a charity effort, and why aren't the governments ( all flavours, who've let this happen ) being lined up & shot ?

I live in a fairly large town - Horsham which has a small hospital just about able to cope with an ingrowing toenail.

The nearby larger town, Crawley, had it's large hospital cut back savagely & the A&E moved to Redhill - a long and busy ride away - so it's now out of the question to get to an A & E within the 'golden hour' of survival we are all told about.

Meanwhile Aldershot had a good, large military hospital - let me guess, has it been sold off for profitable development by now ? - and Haslar teeters on the brink, though I admit the traffic problems are terrible there - helicopters for bad cases - and why are THEY charity funded too ??!!! would be an answer in that case.

We're constantly told we have an ageing population, yet hospitals are being closed down right left & centre - the latest local casualty being the excellent St.Richards in Chichester, virtually stripped of it's A&E among other things, which leaves people living in West Sussex in big trouble if they have something nasty happen.

One would have thought there'd be money to be made by someone building MORE hospitals, and I totally agree on one for injured veterans being among the first, right now, don't care which budget it comes out of, MOD or NHS, it's all our money.

It may be informative for me to tell you that my ex-wife was P.A.to a head of accountancy for an NHS trust; she was told by her 'high ranking' female boss, " the NHS IS being privatised, but don't quote me on that ".

My ex was given one sole job on her first day; go through a brochure and choose whichever chair she fancied; she ended up going for a £400 job, that was in 1993...

[Mr C Hinecap]

A single dedicated hospital would be pointless and add to the suffering if everyone had to go to one place. Silly idea.

[Double Zero]

Mr C Hineap,

please explain how you make that one out, compared to the inadequate treatment at the moment ?

Archiebald McIndoe did rather well with the 'Guinea Pigs' at East Grinstead in WW2, they formed a close bond from what I've read & heard.

Or is it that one's terrified officers might have to mix with real soldiers ?

[Biggles225]

Signed :ok:

[tiarna]

Signed.

Mr C Hinecap non specialist treatment cases can also be catered for locally. The idea of such a hospital would have many beneficial advantages, specialists in war wounds and injuries just to mention two. The atmospher would also be more conducive to survivor recovery.

[Mr C Hinecap]

The atmosphere may well be more 'convivial' and splendid for 'the poor blighters' recovering.

However, a single hospital would not serve the needs of most, being geographically remote from most of those needing to use it. No matter where it could be sited, a single source for treatment would be far too far from most to be useful.

We need dispersed capability so the follow up needs of those injured are closer to travel to and from. I'm not saying the current system works in any way, and does need further investment. We can't divorce the mil medical needs from the rest of the NHS - there would never be the resources and the continuity wouldn't be there.

I've seen the trouble it created to get lads to Haslar from Lincolnshire just for a single appointment with a specialist. The troubles to go through even getting families to Selly Oak to see patients and be with them is bad enough just from here!

We have gone too far away from Service Hospitals and a single establishment is not the answer. partly for the points above. My view is that of need and practicality and has nothing to do with rank, status or any other bizarre perceptions some people here have.

[spanners123]

Signed, :ok:

[tiarna]

Mr C Hinecap

No arguing about the needs of most, you are right on that but for the more severe patients a dedicated hospital would be better than none -- Further, no one would like to see people having to travel unnecessarily which is why most likely could still be treated locally under current schemes. The hospital would be additional not in replace off --otherwise you are right to object.
T.

[jindabyne]

Mr C,

A curious response.

First, your argument concerning geographic circumstances does not hold water - returned and injured personnel under your scheme would not necessarily be accommodated in their relative's area of choice, and travel could still be an issue. Aside from that, we live in a small country, and I think that visiting 'problems' are very far outweighed against the value of care for our troops in a singularly Service environment, where they are treated amongst, and by, kith and kin. Selly Oak or Edinburgh - so what. But Wroughton would be better!

Second, the now defunct and excellent Service hospital organisation was not predicated, in any way, with rank or status: it was based on need, regardless of any social 'perception'. I was a Wing Commander, and had the experience of in-hospital treatments, orientated towards my return to a specific miitary duty, many miles from home, among all other ranks and sexes. What is your point?

The real point is that the Labour Government (started by the Con) has raped its Armed Forces of proper care and attention, and I suspect that it did so without too much protestation from those that should have done so from within the 'ranks'.

Some may say that it's now too late to reverse things. I, and judging by many thousands of others that are contributing to the Downing Street Petition think otherwise. Our Armed Forces deserve dedicated hospitalised medical care in a military environment. The NHS, by my own recent experiences, is excellent: but it cannot cater for the Military's treatment, care and rehabilitation. A fundamental established since the Boer War.

A dedicated hospital environment for miltary personnel was, until recently, a cornernstone of Governnment policy for the last 70 years: in my view, other than a needful slimming down of assets, there was no cause for a shift in this direction. It is a traversty that, given the present commitment of our troops to active srvice on several fronts, our dedication to their welfare should be so diluted. Shame on us all.

[Mr C Hinecap]

Curious? I don't think so - practical, perhaps.

Are you suggesting that this hospital is only for those returning injured from overseas? Your response appears to be leaning towards this and this alone. I don't see that a dedicated hospital could exist without other elements of medical care being included. This would make it a centre of gravity for the longer term medical services and exacerbate the problems I see with a single hospital. The repeat appointments and long term needs are best met in a more dispersed fashion. The sheer frustration of taking someone from Coningsby to Haslar for a 20 min appointment with a consultant is an exercise in futility, especially for the patient - 5 hrs each way is not smart. (personal example)

The money is not there for such new builds. I'm being practical - the NHS don't have it, the MoD doesn't. I'd love to see hospitals, better housing, better everything, but I'm putting us in context. It is also far more about getting the Armed Forces more integrated with society, not going back to shutting ourselves off. That social change is far more needed.

Your issue you seem to think I have with rank:

My view is that of need and practicality and has nothing to do with rank, status or any other bizarre perceptions some people here have.

Doesn't that cover it for you? :hmm:

[jindabyne]

Mr C,

My apologies re-rank issue - I completely misread your comment regarding this point.

No, I am not suggesting that a military hospital should be dedicated solely to those returning with injuries from overseas, but given that our present commitments are likely to be long-term, I would suggest that this would be a significant purpose. The re-establishment of a military facility would also need to have provision for all service personnel whose needs would be better met within a military environment, including those veterans still deserving treatment for service-related conditions. To date, some 57000 petitioners share this view - arguably a very significant number considering the start and deadline dates. That said, I would accept that it is sometimes difficult for those with no service background to understand the ethos of being necessarily cared for in the miltary environment - including, unfortunately, most of our politicians and civil servants.

As for dispersed care, I reiterate my point that attendance issues would be outweighed by the advantages of ethos and focussed care. Headley Court is a useful yardstick. With regards to NHS integration, I have been hospitalised at length on two occasions in the past two years and received excellent treatment and adequate care; but my experiences helped me to remain convinced that the NHS ethos is, in many respects, not suitable for the purpose of caring for the military. And the inadequacy of the Selly Oak model reinforces just a few of my convictions. All of this is not to say that a military hospital, as previously, should not provide treatment for NHS patients - a sensible and practical quid pro quo, which acknowledges that the reverse is not feasible. I agree that there should be more social integration with the armed forces and the community - a return to how it was, not vice versa, would help.

More funding, as you imply, is fought for on many fronts. In my view, we are talking here about a significant moral exception. I may be wrong, but if a new military hospital was established with a degree of concomitant treatment for civilians (ie the reverse of the Selly Oak model), affordability might be less of an issue. Sadly, it will probably remain a political difficulty.

Regards

[uklocations]

Sorry to appear ignorant.

Can you please tease out the main points for me? (I'm Knowledgeable about health care systems, ignorant to military health care needs.)

What are the arguments for and against integration with NHS provision?

Are you talking about acute or chronic problems?

Is intermediate, acute or ongoing care currently lacking. (And where are your figures/evidence).

What is the pressing need, and where are the gaps in current provision?

Is there any degree of "case management" and how effective is the current system?


Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, or stir debate, just interested in the issues.

[jindabyne]

uklocations

I'm not qualified to answer your points in any detail (and with that, I know that I'm laying myself open to those who do not go along with my views above). However, a trawl through Google and other online sites will readily provide you with some more background on the topic.

Can't be more helpful, but I'm sure there'll be others here (of any persuasion) who might who care to enlighten us.

[Re-Heat]

While I realise the issue with keeping soldiers in civilian wards, particularly with undesireables in city centre locations, military hospitals are an outdated concept for two main reasons:

- Far further location from home for most of the injured
- Medical specialisation that provides greater care through professionals dealing with particular issues daily, rather then generic all-in military hospitals with a lesser degree of specialisation than is typical in modern civilian hospitals.

I rather think this debate should be among medical professionals about how to provide the best degree of care than an emotive one among servicemen and officers on PPRuNe, harking back to days when the military had far more personnel than it now does.

[uklocations]

Depends on the need.

[jindabyne]

Re-heat,

As ukl has mentioned, among other issues, it depends on the need. Why do NATO countries such as, for example, the US, Canada, Germany and France still see a need and not ourselves?

I agree that our medical professionals' advice should be heeded, but I think you'll find that the present debate, very rightly emotional, is far from restricted to 'servicemen and officers on PPRuNe' (and some would query your apparent distinction between servicemen and officers).

Your point about 'when the military had far more personnel than it does now' doesn't hold water. With the Cold War at its height, sure the armed forces were far larger, but there was considerably more than the one military hospital to cater for that number. Now, we're 'simply' scaling things down: and in my humble view, and many thousands of others (eg the DS Petition), the fundamental 'need' remains unchanged. The UK (that's all of us, like it or not)is committed militarily in two areas (at present): look at the casualty rates, and then genuinely satisfy yourself that, domestically, we are coping with the sick, injuread and wounded in a proper manner.

Before I begin to be accused of being head-in-sand, I am not necessarily hard-over for a single military hospital at any cost, ignoring all practicalities. But I strongly believe that the present arrangements are letting our servicemen and servicewomen down badly, and that radically new measures should be put in place quickly, recognising above all else military need and military ethos; and as I said earlier, that word ethos is misunderstood by too many.

Yes it is now an emotive issue - and whose fault is that??

[Ayla]

Wizzard Idea, bring back thse PMRAFNS beauties!
http://www.britishpictures.com/photos/pics/nurse1.jpg

[air pig]

My God !! my old Matron has had a face lift. On a more serious note, a military enclave within Selly Oak would be a better proposition. the Armed Forces do not have the specialists to deal with poly-trauma cases on a continuing basis. We do not have enough medical and nursing staff to fullfil current requirements, let alone man a full military hospital with al the specialities required from orthopaedics to chest and heart surgery, it is just not feasible.

A better answer is a dedicated secure establishment with the existing facility, secured closed off and FUNDED TOTALLY by the MoD. Staff could be recruited on a local service engagement including non-deployability if required. Services could be provided by the host hospital such as operating theatre time, ICU beds and lab services for instance.

When Frontier Medical are trying to recruit staff to work in Afghanistan for UK forces, to fill holes in the establishment a dedicated hospital is not going to happen. We have TOO FEW staff for present requirements.

I for one would work in such a unit, being now too OLD to rejoin !!!

Signed any way more in hope rather than expectation.

[jindabyne]

air pig,

For me, a reasoned input. Two questions. Why is Selly Oak seemimgly the favoured site? And why can we not staff it with military personnel? I know nothing of Selly Oak, and have no 'objection' in principle - presumably it is its centric location? Do we really not have the ability to staff such a unit as you propose with Service personnel - the 'retired' option like yourself seems a reasonable possibility? I think your suggestion has been put forward recently by Simon Weston - I only hope that if it gathers ground, it is not a civil-service/political remedy that is seen to be 'doing something' at least cost, rather than fulfilling a National and obligatory need.

It might appear that I'm trying to lead a cause on here or being obsessive. Neither is the case, I simply have a passion. If that's being emotive, out of touch, or blimpish, then I'm not sorry.

[Chugalug2]

Signed, though as already said my concern is for better provision for Forces in-patients, especially war casualties, rather than a stand alone hospital per se. Again, as has been said, the Medical Professionals would have a surer grasp of the pros and cons. Air Pig's post says it all I think, a military establishment within a few large existing NHS hospitals would seem to hold the key and be the best of both worlds. Nurse, the screens!

[air pig]

Jinabyne.

I reason, that Selly Oak is central, near a large airfield so that the aeromed teams can get easy access. There is all the facilities between Selly Oak and Queen Elizabeth Hospital that can deal with polytrauma patients who may need specialists to include neuro, cardio-thoracic(chest) orthopaedic burns and critical care management to name but a few for just one patient. These systems are hard to set up, costly to run and to make such a unit viable you would need at least a 500 bed unit. If such a unit was built you would generally have to admit civilian patients if only to prevent skill fade in the hospital staff and you still have only one hospital. To staff a large ICU is hard enough at present but the cost of staff alone, for 30 beds would I suspect be in the region of £6-7 million per year allowing for 6.5 staff per bed per 24 hours a day 365 days a year. ( This takes into account annual leave days off and minimal mandatory training and the 6.5, is the the British Intensive Care Society estimation, not something snatched out of thin air)

Being relatively central it is easy to get except during rush hours, but amazing what a set of 'blues and two's' and a police escort can do, also relatives can get there much easier, and accommodation is more available, remember Ely Nocturn Hall and even Halton, out in the back of beyond in winter. Halton was cut off during the winter of 81-2 for days.

Military medical training is generally based in Birmingham with both hospitals and the university.

The Birmingham option whilst not perfect is at the moment what we have, how to go forward sensibily is the question.To me, the military secured enclave is the way forward managed and staff by military personnel and locally recruited staff preferably ex military, who understand the military 'ethos and way of life.'

The problem of security could be dealt with by using those who are unable to deploy for whatever reason or by reserves volunteering for hospital protection duties. I feel that there are many who would willingly give their time even a couple of days a month to provide a security force.

[jindabyne]

air pig

Thanks for a very useful and informative reply.

"To me, the military secured enclave is the way forward managed and staffed by military personnel and locally recruited staff preferably ex military, who understand the military 'ethos and way of life."


If the enclave as you describe it (with sufficient capacity) is properly judged to be the optimum approach, and given that the relevant Government and MoD departments are able to move forward rapidly on a properly established and well-funded basis, I imagine most people might be persuaded. And as Chug suggests, I'd not put all the eggs in one basket.

[air pig]

I agree but this could be a start and for those who are returning from combat or requiring major interventions such as surgery possibly the best place to start, with discharge to regional centres as rehabilitation. For those who are more routine problems a system of units attached to NHS hospitals would suffice using the local facilities as is the case at present.

Halton hospital's Cade unit (Oncology) for instance used to combine their chemotherapy with the use of a Radiotherapy Unit in London, so the system works. It just needs to be RE-LEARNT. Like re-inventing the wheel, we do it every so often, it still looks and acts like a wheel.

Within this system we also not forget the dependants of serving personnel, they MUST be able to go on operations knowing that we will look after them !!

[jindabyne]

Hear hear to that!

[Epsilon minus]

Please read this as an addendum to the sticky at the top of the page. I make no apologies for my concern at the inadequate levels of medical support afforded to our war wounded. Please read this message and then sign the 10 Downing Street petition (if you havent already done so) Please note THE ONLINE PETITION CLOSES 19AUG08. Thank you
EM

UNCLASSIFIED
Petition to: Create a dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital within the UK. (http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Wounded/)

Please accept my apologies for forwarding unsolicited email to you, however I would be grateful if you would consider letting serving and retired UK soldiers, sailors and airmen know about the online petition asking the UK Prime Minister to provide suitable hospital care for injured service personnel.

This email was started originally by MO 2PARA 82-84.

http://www2.army.mod.uk/img/para/2bn/a_company/d_coy3w250.jpg


The Military Covenant is the mutual obligation between the Nation, the Army and each individual soldier; an unbreakable common bond of identity, loyalty and responsibility which has sustained the Army throughout its history.

Soldiers will be called upon to make personal sacrifices - including the ultimate sacrifice - in the service of the Nation. In putting the needs of the Nation and the Army before their own, they forego some of the rights enjoyed by those outside the Armed Forces. In return, British soldiers must always be able to expect fair treatment, to be valued and respected as individuals, and that they (and their families) will be sustained and rewarded by commensurate terms and conditions of service.
In the same way the unique nature of military land operations means that the Army differs from all other institutions, and must be sustained and provided for accordingly by the Nation. This mutual obligation forms the Military Covenant between the Nation, the Army and each individual soldier; an unbreakable common bond of identity, loyalty and responsibility which has sustained the Army throughout its history.
It has perhaps its greatest manifestation in the annual commemoration of Armistice Day, when the Nation keeps covenant with those who have made the ultimate sacrifice, giving their lives in action.
(The Military Covenant - British Army Website (http://www.army.mod.uk/join/terms/3111.aspx))
Friends,
All of you will know, that I am not one to send out “chain” e-mails. However, this is an issue that could not be closer to my heart, other than my family. (BUT, then again, these are my extended family.) In this message I do not refer to only servicemen, I don’t just mean Paras, I don’t just mean just Army – I mean all our Service personnel, whether “in harm’s way” or serving their Country in any way that our politicians (and by dint of the fact that we voted for them, WE, ask.)
The following message is the gist of what I have received from several very reliable sources. Please consider it; if you have not already done so, sign it; and, if you agree, forward it to as many people as possible who you think might also agree and sign it.
“We have been sent the following message. “Our understanding is that Selly Oak is good but it’s just not able to deal with the numbers coming back. As you will see below, time is short but it should still be possible to get some real numbers behind this one. If you feel able to help please sign up by visiting the link below and also please pass it on. I'm not in favour of chain letters but this one really is worth it. They stopped road pricing because of the millions who signed one of these petitions - maybe we can do the same for a military hospital.
Maybe you will join this petition? Only 5,000 people thereabouts have done this so far which is hardly a blip when compared to other petitions.
Just some background: we believe 2 PARA alone on this tour have sent back over 50 casualties to the UK, so when all of the casualties from other battle groups are added to the figure, how is ONE ward in an NHS hospital going to cope? It cannot cope, and the individual troops are sent home to recover relying on NHS visiting services which themselves are over committed.
A lot more than 5000 names are needed for this petition and quite cynically, Downing Street has put a time limit of one month for this to be achieved.
Do what you can.”
Steven Hughes, RMO 2 PARA 1982 – 1984 (and the proudest period of my life.)
PLEASE CONNECT TO THIS LINK.
Petition to: Create a dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital within the UK. (http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Wounded/)

[NutLoose]

Done :):):):)

[Alvechurch]

Air Pig's post should be read by everyone before signing up for the petition.
Many of the complaints about the present system are based on misunderstandings and plain media falsehoods which just get endlessly parroted without any basis of fact.
Reports of poor treatment in Selly Oak hospital were investigated and proved to be baseless and, curiously, the Muslim nurse and Muslim visitors verbally attacking injured soldiers turned out to be none-existent too.
Selly Oak Hospital itself will be closing within 18 months and dedicated service-only facilities will be opened in the massive still-building new Queen Elizabeth Hospital complex just half a mile away in Edgbaston.
As far as I'm aware, their are service medical people involved at Selly Oak and the mixing of NHS and Military expertise is said to benefit everyone involved.
On a personal note, many years ago I actually spent some time in Wroughton Hospital and the idea that it was an excellent treatment centre would not be shared by everyone, particularly other ranks I'm afraid.

[air pig]

Today, we find the Daily Express starting a campaign to re-introduce a military hospital. It would appear at first reading to involve RNH Haslar. This is it would appear a DGH style hospital with no major specialities available.

The cost of building a new hospital of approx 500 beds would be £100 million pounds just for bricks and mortar, then add on costs for equipment, everything from cups and saucers to CT scanners, we could easily double the cost and a bit more for the building and contents, then add on costs for staffing and infrastructure support. How do I know the rough cost ? the hospital I work in has just had a new cardiac critical care block built including 28 critical care beds a new scanner and clinic areas, cost £22 million pounds and then the budget was 'moved' around at times. We have not even discussed the cost of staffing yet.

I still believe an enclave secured on NHS sites the better option, the military have access to staff and facilities but their OWN environment when the patient is fit to be discharged from the critical care areas back to the military unit for continuing care.

FACT The military, as all three services do not have enough staff to man a military hospital. The Armed Forces Nursing Services, PMRAFNS and QA's are offering qualified critical care nurses £25,000 golden hello's at present, we have shortage of specialist medical staff, surgeons anaesthetists burns and A/E doctors up to 30 to 50%. Military staf are working in NHS hospital's along side NHS staff providing care at Selly Oak, Peterbrough and other establishments.

We have to for the future learn to live with the NHS, but with the right motivation can make conditions for service personnel much improved.

Lastly, whose budget would all this money come from, the MoD penny pinchers to a man and woman, or the NHS even worse and watch your budget and resources disappear in a welter of poor administration and management.

The choice is yours. I am only playing devils advocate.

[endplay]

In the 70's my wife worked as an PMRAFNS nurse at Ely and treated far more fen dwellers than Service pesonnel. I'm confident that this profile was simarlarly repeated at all our other "military" hospitals. At the moment there are plenty of injured Servicemen to provide work for the medics but this (please God) will not be the continuing situation and there will inevitably be serious skill fade once peace breaks out. In order for our doctors to get appropiate exposure to the sort of battle wounds that we would wish them to become expert at we need to place them in city centre hospitals, such as Selly Oak, where knifings and shootings are relatively commonplace.

A single centralised hospital could work for returning battlefield casualties but the logistics for families could prove horrendous. I think that properly staffed and equipped military wards in dispersed locations is the only answer.

[air pig]

Hi Endplay,

My sentiments totally about treating non service patients. When I was at Halton the local pregnant women would fight to go to Halton maternity unit in preference to the alternative 12 miles down the road.

The comments about skill fade are true and like aircrew happens quickly and in some cases without realisation of what is happening.

To me, the use of enclaves for HM personnel and their families to me is the way forward. The major cases should and could go to Birmingham and when fit to Headley Court or a unit nearer home for rehabilitation. Non trauma cases could be treated as now at NHS DGH's.

I have read Col Bob Stewart's article in the Daily Express, but in MY opinion he is living 20 years ago not today or tomorrow, which is what we need to think about for the care of those injured on operations and due to other reasons.

Medical care has moved forward exponentially since the Falklands and Gulf War 1, we are thankfully having troops surviving trauma that not long ago would have been fatal, look at Trooper Ben Parkinson for instance. Where would people want money spent, on maintaining a level of battlefield care and evacuation or on a hospital that may cost lives in the terms of moving resources away from the team in the field.

[Chugalug2]

My sentiments totally about treating non service patients. When I was at Halton the local pregnant women would fight to go to Halton maternity unit in preference to the alternative 12 miles down the road.


Speaking on behalf of Mrs C, guilty as charged! I had just left the RAF and we settled in Dunstable as I was now based at Luton. When our eldest was due our GP made to book the wife into the Luton General. When I requested Halton it was news to him that as an NHS patient she was eligible. Duly ensconced she strung it out for some 10 days instead of the 36 hours of the other establishment. Patients were outnumbered by staff IIRC, but old habits die hard, I courageously and fearlessly attended her delivery (but don't care to talk too much about it) and was amused to witness a shift change midway through! Pity that we can't return to such largess, but Airpig's point is well made and offers, I suspect, the best for patients, staff and service. A rare achievement in itself!

[Basil]

00
Or is it that one's terrified officers might have to mix with real soldiers ?
:confused::confused:I'd always understood that officers WERE real soldiers, sailors and airmen :hmm:

[Basil]

Before reading the following I would have signed the petition. Now I will not.
I have not asked for permission to publish these comments but feel that they are not attributable and, if the originator reads them and wishes them withdrawn, please PM me or mods.

As a founding member of Help For Heroes, I have had the privilege to personally visit Selly Oak several times on a regular basis. Believe me when I say that it is the most impressive place, resourced, staffed and run specifically to save lives when they are hanging by a thread. You can imagine the very worst of battlefield injuries; they deal with them all. Staffed by the very best civilian and military surgeons, medics and nurses working as a close knit team, our wounded receive the best and most rapid surgical attention and dedicated nursing that it’s possible to provide – anywhere in the world. The clinical expertise is superb, better than anything the MOD could possibly provide within a dedicated military hospital. We all remember the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Woolwich, the Cambridge Military Hospital and others; excellent for the ‘normal’ day to day medical challenges, but unlikely to cope with the extreme cases being presented with such depressing regularity as now witnessed at Selly Oak. You will remember the superb, world renowned operating techniques developed and honed at Belfast’s Royal Victoria Hospital during the 70’s and 80’s to deal with gun shot and blast injuries. Selly Oak now enjoys the same status, developed through constant exposure to extreme trauma cases. I suggest that you will not find a single serviceman who has been operated on at Selly Oak within the last year saying that he could have received better treatment and subsequent nursing care in any other hospital. Selly Oak commands their total confidence and, as importantly, the confidence of their families should the worst happen. This is why Help for Heroes and SSAFA has made such a significant investment in providing accommodation for families to use whilst visiting their wounded at Selly Oak and at Headley Court; it knows it’s a hospital worthy of its long term support.

Please don’t be misled by those stories of yesteryear where wounded soldiers were being abused as they lay defenceless in public wards. Disgraceful as this situation was, procedures have since been totally reviewed to ensure that our wounded now enjoy a high level of care, privacy and security. Additionally, Selly Oak provides the opportunity for military surgeons, doctors and nurses to work alongside their civilian counterparts in the NHS. Their collective record is truly impressive. Experience and skills gained by military surgeons working alongside the very best NHS surgeons, together with the support and mentoring that comes with it, allows such hard earned and well practised skills to be taken into the field hospitals when deployed. This would not be the case if we relied solely on a military hospital. It’s worth mentioning that treatment is not only provided at Selly Oak but also at other NHS hospitals in the Birmingham area, all collectively referred to as Selly Oak. And support is always on hand through service liaison officers who carry out a vital role. Where appropriate and as soon as the patient is fit enough for the next stage, the Tri-Service Rehabilitation Centre at Headley Court provides further world beating treatment; I have been there, have personal experience as a patient, and know that what they provide on a daily basis could not be done better anywhere – the world stands in awe. The new prosthesis department alone is inspiring, working at the leading edge of technology. Procedures are constantly being updated to ensure that patients have regular access to the very best medical care, and this continues to be available to out-patients.

These are some of the reasons why I cannot support the petition. Let us accept that what is provided at Selly Oak is world renowned and serves the worst of our injured service personnel in the very best way that money and clinical excellence can provide. The Services are no longer complaining, they know that everything has been done to deliver the very best, and are grateful for the unquestioned skills, equipment and dedicated professionalism provided to save life. Let us put all our efforts behind them and refrain from seeking well meaning alternatives that would inevitably fail to provide the clinical excellence to which our wounded are rightfully entitled.

[air pig]

Hi Basil

Hear Hear !! Totally agree with your sentiments and comments.

And Mr C Hinecap, thank you for your comments on ARRSE about the petition for a hospital.

[VMD+12]

Basil,

Thank you for your clearly stated opinion and excellent description of the current state of medical support at Selly Oak and the very positive impact that these medical skills and equipment have on those personnel unfortunate enough to be severely wounded on operations.

I intend cutting and pasting your comments and 'replying to all' in response to anyone who sends me the round robin e-mails that currently seem to be circulating seeking support for the petition. It is essential to have up to date knowledge of what is available and what current personnel think of the available treatment rather a 'rose tinted spectacles' view of the military hospitals of the cold war past who dealt with sports injuries and bad backs but not serious trauma cases

I will not be signing the petition.

[Whenurhappy]

In the mid 1990s, I collapsed during a morning brief at Lyneham and was immediately transported to RAF Hospital Wroughton. I was initially diagnosed with a cardiac problem but a battery of tests (at PMH Swindon) eventually revealed that I had caught a rather nasty illness from contaminated food. I was moved into Isolation and Barrier Nursed. This proved to be a blessing; my time on the general ward (a 'Nightingale' ward) was characterised by demented geriatrics screaming during the night and on one occasion flinging sh!t around. But enough of Master Aircrew.

The SHO was a particularly rude South African woman and the meals were dished out by a spiteful old hag who presumed to know best and rationed the high-energy/high calorie diet that I was on. Meals, IIRC, were hot-boxed in from PMH Swindon - and not particularly palatable. I was sustained for my three weeks in isolation with butty-boxes of chocolate and Danish pastries brought up (and left at a discrete distance) by colleagues from work. Welfare interest from the staff was largely non-existant although I did receive two visits from an old dear (from SSAFA?) dishing out dog-eared magazines (The People's Friend and Readers' Digest) and 'Sunday School Prize' books in an effort to alleviate the boredom. It was stark contrast with my experience of the US Navy Hospital in Gricingnano, Napoli, where the facilites wer efantastic and the staff could not do enough to make the stay a pleasant one.


I most definitely support Military staffed wards for our Service personnel but we can't go back to our elderly and now inappropriatemilitary hosptials of the past that suffered from years of under-investment and neglect (the Scanner block at Wroughton notwithstanding).

NZWP