Military Staff Shortages Warning

[MaroonMan4]

I saw this lurking on the BBC web site - may be of interest and also add to the on going discussions on this (and other forums). Here we sit in our cockpits/crewrooms/offices but as we know (and the BBC reported in its 'politics' sub menu) it is not just the winged master race that is in the process of mass exodus.

BBC NEWS | Politics | Military staff shortages warning (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7532008.stm)

Although from a rotary perspective give me (or hang onto/retain) more experienced aircrew please - I need the youth and enthusiasm of the younger guys (and recruiting is not the issue from this end of the pipeline as the guys coming through are on the whole all well up to the job), but I need the balance - and sadly (in my world) it is not there.

If this has been posted before (and I have had a look) then let me know and I will remove.

:sad:

[dallas]

Liberal Democrat defence spokesman Nick Harvey said: "The exodus from the armed forces is now so grave as to be an issue of national security."
I think this guy might be along the right lines in 3-5 years, but right now we're just about coping because we've got no other choice. In my working environment most are fed-up, to say the least, and most will at least claim to have a healthy eye on their next option date. A handful have no plans to leave, but they're certainly a minority. As I see it the problem is comparable to a glacier sliding down a hill; unless you're monitoring it closely - and some things I've heard about individuals leaving would indicate 'the powers' are not - you won't necessarily detect the slide and get to the root causes. But equally glacial, once the momentum builds up it'll be incredibly hard to stop.

Many of my reasons for leaving are fixable, but nobody is asking what they are - they'll perhaps feature in a Commons report in about 8 years time, when they're trying to figure out what went wrong, but that's too late. Continuous General Attitude Surveys, with their selective questions based around what 'they' think is wrong, don't actually get to what individuals think. Additionally, those leading us have, for the most part, decided to stay and make a career of it, naturally viewing 'deserters' with suspicion or disdain (trains to Glasgow etc)......during their 2 year personnel tour that they'll be able to hand over soon. Except I personally think the 'train to Glasgow' crowd are doing more damage to the Service they claim to be proponents of, because they're not tackling the problem - they're ignoring it in a 'let them go' mentality. That policy works okay when those going aren't seemingly the majority of the workforce!

[cheesedoff]

I'm NCA and am within 2 years of my exit date. I have no desire to stay in the RAF whatsoever and do not intend ticking the 'yes' box on the offer of further service that I recently received.

During the past 2 years I have had the will to remain as a member of the RAF thoroughly 'kicked out of me'.

Rant over, 'nuff said

[rej]

Dallas, you have hit the nail on the head. I personally do not bother replying to the Continuous Attitude Surveys anymore ; its a bit like the old addage 'you can buy a Model T in any colour as long as it is black'. The only difference here is that you can tell us anything you like as long as it is what we want to hear. If you had the opportunity to give the reasons, it would probably fall on deaf ears

The triv is is just constantly adding to the major issues in helping people get nibbled to death by ducks. My intention, along with a large element of my peer group is to go at my next option point. Why won't I go earlier?
Well, apart from the fact that I enjoy my present role (not much to look forward to beyond that though), and the inevitable OOA looming, why give the b@$tard$ an element of my pension and gratuity that I have worked hard to earn over the past 20 odd years

[Pontius Navigator]

It was mentioned elsewhere that the RAF recruiting target had been increased but the total strength of the was still 41000. Ergo more recruits to replace those that have not been retained.

Now I do know someone who wants to extend but the difference is they are not deployable.

[Biggus]

PN

For what it is worth under PR08 the strength of the RAF is to go up 600 odd. Extra groundcrew for C-17s, helos, extra RAF Regt, etc........

There must be a glossy about it floating about your workplace somewhere, that is how I found out about it. Still, 600 odd might be considered a drop in the ocean by some.......

[Pontius Navigator]

Biggus, no. True the 600 is shown as extra but it is still within the 41k cap, confusing but true.

Wader2 - The recruiting target for the RAF has been increased to 4559 per year and 629 additional posts have been funded, 184 for RAF Regiment and 99 engineers for the C17.

Also an increase in multi-engine pilot trainings and 219 posts in the SH Force.

Oh, and 26 posts for JPA improvements.

With a manpower ceiling of 41000 and only 629 additional posts you can perhaps guess why the recruiting target has increased.

[Biggus]

I'm easily confused, so I'm not surprised.

Does that mean the glossy saying how well the RAF senior neddies had fought to get 600 extra posts out of PR08 should be considered............ (fill in your own thoughts as required).

[SirToppamHat]

My (Joint) Unit had not even had a chance to implement the bollox PR08 cuts fully before MoD came banging on the door demanding cuts under PR09! I am pretty sure we're not the only unit in this situation, but perhaps some other commanders/execs are keeping it under their hats for now.

STH

[LFFC]

Here's a link to the Conclusions and Recommendations (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmselect/cmdfence/424/42408.htm) of the Defence Select Committee's report from which this news item was drawn.

There are some real gems if you wish to find them, like:



Joint Personnel Administration
40. The Joint Personnel Administration system offers potential efficiency and business benefits. However, we are concerned that Service personnel are not receiving the money that they are entitled to because JPA is difficult to use. The number of military administrative and support posts have been cut as part of an efficiency programme and as a result, Service personnel are not getting the help which they require and should be entitled to. We consider that these difficulties stem from poor planning and ineffective training. In its response to our report, we expect the MoD to set out what action it plans to take to address what is, in our view, a totally unacceptable state of affairs.

[moosemaster]

Like that's actually going to happen!!

cheesedoff; you're lucky to have gotten an offer of continued service that early on. I was also NCA and my offer arrived on my desk a mere 6 months before my exit date, with a stipulation that it had to be returned by a date which was, in fact, 2 months prior to me actually receiving it!!!

It's the small things that make the big difference. :ugh:

I had been hassling my desk for a confirmation that I was going to be signed on and all I ever got back was "There's no reason why you shouldn't!"
What I wanted was Yes, and here's the paperwork!

With a young family to feed, I was forced to look elsewhere, and by the time the offer did come, I'd already found a willing employer in civvy street, and had had a belly-full of the admin cr4p.

That said, if the offer had have come earlier I wouldn't be enjoying civvy life just yet, so maybe they did me a favour.

[Pontius Navigator]

JPA, of course it'll get better - 26 new posts :)

[Wader2]

The extra 629 post are just that, the target of 410000 RAF Regular posts remains at 41000. Eyeballing the graph, the manpower gap in April is about 500.

The forecast shows the gap will increase by April next year to about 1900 and closing to about 1000 short, against a ceiling of about 40800 in Oct 2011. So much for more posts.

The new initiatives however should eliminate this shortfall by Oct 2011.

It is said that the shortfall has arisen because people have left on redundancy before their posts have been disestablished. Make of that statement what you will.

On separated service, the target has changed from 140 days in 12 months to 280 days in 24.

[Jayand]

I cant wait to get my offer of service paperwork as it will be going in the same place the continuous attitude survey went!!! file B1N:}

[Melchett01]

On separated service, the target has changed from 140 days in 12 months to 280 days in 24.

Quite an innocuous statement at first glance, after all it still averages out at 140 days/yr, and doesn't it bring us into line with the Army's separated service totals?

However, it now just means that they can deploy everyone on a 4-monther (approx 120-130 days) every year and still not break harmony - especially if you look at it over a rolling 2 year period rather than discrete blocks of time.

I sense that very subtle playing with numbers will lead to more people doing more time in the desert which in turn will do little for retention. Yet more fudging of figures to show the high paid help and politicians that all is well at the coal-face. Bit like my last unit where the boss denied people on near constant ops the chance to carry over more than 15 days leave; after all, if people were told their application would be refused without exception, they wouldn't bother to apply for it and therefore the unit wouldn't have a leave problem! :ugh:

[Justin Cyder-Belvoir]

One of the guys I worked with once said " Stick your hand in a bucket of water and then pull it out. That's how much you will be missed".

I worked for the RAF for 19 yrs: did all the good bull, Mess Committee secondary duties, Flight Commander, etc etc.

When I retired I wasn't offered a Station Dining Out, nor a Sqn Dining Out ( the WRAF Sgt on the Sqn was, however) nor did I get a Stn Cdr's interview on retirement. They did take my watch though!

Walk away when you have the chance:loyalty counts for nothing. Look after Number 1.

[KeepItTidy]

Its crazy who makes these decisions that allow so many people to leave , I dont want to say the 530 Group Captains at RAF HQ as the last time I accused them of the reason the service is in dissaray I got my head chewed off. So if they are not at fault or the seniors on our squadrons and so on , who carries the can for not listening to what people want , for years we have passed up the chain what would be nice and yet that message has failed to get to the highest , mainly because senior managers are too scared to pass up ideas that could rock the boat or jeapordise there careers. Spinless leaders maybe

Whinge over

[rej]

AIDU :"I guess you were probably just un-popoular amongst your peers."

That's a bit out of order. It is becoming more of the norm that when people leave, the only words they get is along the lines of "don't let the door hit you on the arse as you leave".

and just to balance things up

Justin Cyder-Belvoir - Sometimes nothing is best. When I left my last tour, at the Wing Dining-in Night my boss made no effort in penning a speech, or even trying to research about me, despite my being the senior departing guest. Instead he 'googled' my name and came up with next to nothing and said derisory comments about my parental ability. Shocked and insulted are just the tip of the iceburg. Thankfully I am now among grown ups.

[Tiger_mate]

AIDI wibbled:
once your mug has disappeared from the crew room you are just a distant memory the next day.

It is a rare day when AIDI contributes anything productive to a thread, and although borne of cynicism, his statement above is sadly correct.

However, formal or indeed informal recognition of ones contributions is a basic element of leadership, and one which middle management seems to lack nowadays. Recognition is also a 'need' of many individuals, and I know of people who would work without salary for genuine appreciation.

Now back to the thread: If the workforce are kept informed, and therefore understand why overstretch is unavoidable, in addition to being led from the front and their efforts appreciated and recognized, then difficult times can be mastered. As has been seen here, a lack of recognition / appreciation has a direct effect on the morale of personnel which is infectious and totally negative.

The individual may be a social hand grenade, but if he has delivered the goods, he deserves recognition, and in the military; tradition states that a dining out or top table dinner be the venue for such an occasion. I also changed units recently, and the fastball posting when everybody was up to their eyeballs in RIAT mud meant that no ceremony was possible. As it happens, a few of my peers made sincere and complimentary comments regarding the negative knock on effect of my departure which more than satisfied my own needs for appreciation.

[Al R]

Does he ever contribute anything of value anyway? Whenever I see his name crop up in a thread, he always seems to be saying the same old thing.

Aidu said:This message is hidden because AIDU is on your ignore list (http://www.pprune.org/forums/profile.php?do=editlist).


Justin: I sympathise.

[Pontius Navigator]

I don't know what people on my ignore list say but I believe AIDU's cheap shot has been used before, but probably by someone else.

Tiger says how some people need appreciation, I think we all do. All aircrew appreciate the AIDU product but few pass on that appreciatin face to face. A trip to AIDU could have two benefits.

On appreciation though:

First WW cartoon I saw in a junk shop yesterday, 2 officers after the honours list came out.

"Nothing for me again, and I carried my wounded sergeant over my shoulder for half a mile muck and bullets everywhere. I told him not to say a word to anyone."

"And he hasn't?"

"No dammit, not a word."

[Biggles225]

Justin
Sounds like you were done!
An old friend of mine said at his dining out 'You're missed as much as when you take your hand out of a bucket of water ..... right up to the point they realise just how many holes your fingers were blocking!' :rolleyes:

[Ayla]

http://www.sterlingtimes.org/walmington_on_sea_needs_you.jpg

Come on Chaps stop bickering and unite against the common enemy!

The French!