Korean Air A330 F/O position

[A319rider]

Hi guys,
I've been recently looking at the prospect of applying to korean air for their A330 F/O positions.
At the moment I'm only rated on the A320 but they would accept me for work as long as I self fund my own type rating if I pass the screening.
I've been looking through Rishworth and they say they can get me a discounted rate for the A330 rating. Anyone who has done it through them would share their experience?
And anyone currently employed by Korean on the A330 fleet can explain how life is working and commuting from Korea?
Thanks in advance for your answers.

[safelife]

- you can get a A330 CCQ of 320 for about 7000 EUR
- I know some who joined on B744 (rated) and are not very happy
- currently you will not be considered without A330 time, rating

[Metro man]

Not working for Korean but:

Don't trust a thing Rishworth tell you, do a search and see what others have to say about them.

Also you will not get a upgrade, astronaut standard medical, difficult time in the sim (may be easier for f/o).

[A319rider]

Thanks a lot for your replies. I hope some more people will share their opinions so i can get a bigger picture about the company and the contractors.

[I-Fly-River]

just wondering how's the lifestyle, work patterns, training like for the A330 FOs in Korean? been browsing through, mainly 777 and 747 CAPT experience and all, but very quiet on the FOs front... cheers:ok:

[RG500]

Positive Aspects - Money is decent and paid on time. Schedule rarely fluctuates, 9 days off at home and they take care of travel dates. You can add on annual leave to your home leave. F/O's travel business, if space available. Travel benefits, though not as cushy as Captain priviledges. You're paid a base salary and your pay is based on time on seat, so forget about overtime. Fleet expansion continues with B747-800's, A380's and B787's being added. No layoffs (actually continual hiring) or paycuts during recent oil price fluctuations. Training may be difficult for some as they stress following Korean culture and it could be completed 2-4 weeks earlier, if completed more efficiently.
Negative Aspects - 5 year contract with no upgrade, all briefings are in Korean (unless you're the only one) and they tend not to speak with you, enroute, but they are great at humming. So, CRM and communication levels on average, are below standard. They're also is a tendency to micromanage and do all of the flying unless you brief them, on your experience.
Currently, there are only 20 expat F/O's, out of approx. 1800 pilots.
Upper management has been briefed on the reasons why KAL hasn't been attracting more F/O candidates and either chooses not to do anything or are unable due to their management hierarchy and culture. It's a great job for an expat captain.

[B737NG]

Ask some of the Expat F/O´s on the B744, they are the only ones who are on the line. All other fleets do not have one on the line yet of completet the training and got terminated.

Rishworth got also the Nickname Rishworse.... No support after you are on line if you have ever a argument with KAL Administration. Why should they risk anything for one Pilot? If he leaves then they have plenty more under contract.

It is hard to survive the Training there and later on the line you have not a US/EU-style operation. 9 days off a month and money on time, no upgrade. Stable roster, there are good things as well, mostly suit ExPat Captain. As a F/O you are not seen as a asset to most of the locals. Rather as a potential threat that in the future you might be a competetor when "higher" or "top" management ever decides to put Ex-Pat F/O´s into a line where they can upgrade after average 12 to 14 years with the Company. The only bonus given are to Ex-ROKAF Pilots, they get a Command 30 months earlier.

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[changer]

I'm curious how the expat captains manage the cockpit. Do they let the FO fly every other leg, as in Western cockpits?

How often do expat captains fly with expat FOs?

Is there any bias from Korean FOs regarding expat captains?

Personally interested in the 777 but comments on any fleet type welcomed

[tom744]

changer,

I share the legs between all crew members but there are still some F/O's who don't want to fly at all, especcially when they are due for upgrade.

I flew already with expad F/O's, even on pax flight ( who does the korean PA??), but it doesn't happen too often since we have only 20 expad F/O's or so on the fleet for the time being.

Normally they are pretty kind to expad captains, sometimes even submissive...
well, we got a good feedback from the civilian trained guys since they mostly prefer to fly with expads (we let them fly, we don't ride the controls or select speed brakes or flaps without command...),
I felt only 2 times any animosity against me, once from a military guy anfd the other time from a civilian trained. 9 maybe the other one's hide it, don't know exactly).

cheers,
tom744

[WallyBallbearing]

Expat FO's get treated the almost the same with Korean Captains as they do with expats except the expat Captain will use a little synergy and the Korean Captain thinks it all them. Theres not much in the way of conversation with the former but the Korean Captains (most) are easy to get alone with. You land about twice a month or sometime less. Most of the time the Captain will do the out station legs and fo's will land back in Incheon. Some Korean Captains will ride the controls on you from time to time but considering the experience from local F/O's they may have reason.

Korean is under a big change with all the expats coming to fly there and from what I hear from the past, its getting better. You have to put your ego in a box and leave it there till you get home. If you cant do that your going to have problems.

You have to look at Korean (for FO's) as a place to make good money and have a great home leave, and thats about it till something else comes along. Lots of Jeju guys who dont have the schedule expats do are leaving for other companies in droves. After years of abuse you cant blame them. Its not a career path you come to Korean as any fo (except military), its a quick fix..for now who knows what the future will bring.

As for the upgrade for expat FO's. I doubt it very much, though opinions vary.

[320330Driver]

Hi, I was just wondering if the A330 F/O training shares the same horror stories as the B777 DEC.