Shortage of Helicopter Pilots?

[owe ver chute]

Crippling shortage of helicopter pilots | News | News of the World (http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/2707_army_pilots.shtml)

Wanted: 163 army heli pilots

By Ian Kirby

HARD-PRESSED British forces in the war zones of Afghanistan and Iraq may have to wait YEARS for extra helicopters—because of a crippling shortage of PILOTS.
Shock Ministry of Defence figures reveal the Army Air Corps, RAF and Royal Navy are under strength in almost every area.

Even if our forces were supplied with desperately needed extra helicopters, there would be no one to fly them since they are ALREADY short of 163 trained aircrew.

An internal report shows the biggest shortages are among pilots and crews of our Apache, Chinook, Sea King and Merlin helicopter fleets, which carry out the bulk of the work in the two war zones.

The powerful Apache gunships are vital to the war effort in Afghanistan, supporting the Paras and other hard-pressed units fighting the Taliban.

Yet the MoD's own figures show the Army Air Corps only has 93 Apache aircrew out of the 134 it needs.

That's nearly A THIRD under strength.

Insiders blame delays in training crews for the Apaches, which have been in use for three years.

Damning
There are also sky-high shortages of around 10 per cent in aircrews for the RAF's Chinooks, which supply troops, as well as the ageing Sea King and Merlin helicopter fleets.

Tory defence spokesman Liam Fox called the shortages "appalling".

He said it was a damning indictment of the government, adding: "The pilots they have are being asked to carry out tasks for which they're neither funded nor equipped."

[email protected]


I know that the NoTW isn't the usual place to find "news", but are the numbers as bad as the aper makes out?

[jayteeto]

Do the forces still use reservist pilots? The AAC are scrapping their TA units. Could they offer part-time stuff where you are not just UK based? Apparently the RAF aircrew only ever stay in hotels according to Ppruners. I could volunteer for some 'VR' service....... What are the hotels like in Basra and 'Stan????

[Bofaboy]

If this is the case there would be a lot of AAC Officers eager to fill any gaps be it on exchange tours with the RN or RAF or retraining on Apache at the expense of their "careers".

I appreciate that Apache crews are in the system and that they will filter through in time and there will be no quick fix for this shortfall however the exchange business is much more achieveable. You have a bevvy of AAC Officers about to be dissapointed at the Sqn Command Board who will end up not even commanding an aircraft, never mind soldiers or a Squadron because of the paucity of Sqn Command slots (amplified more with the cut of 7 Regt AAC).

I am sure there would be many AAC Officers (admittedly Majors) who would give their right eye to go flying again with the RN and RAF rather than stare down the barrel of an unfulfilling Staff job. Think what benefits that these people could offer after flying in another Service; JHC would certainly be better for it.

If ever there is a time for self determination for AAC Officers to choose their own path in life rather than the inflxible AAC career route and solve a Defence problem, it is now.

Me first!

Bofaboy

[AHQHI656SQN]

The maths don't add up, or do they?

Plan A. Each Attack Squadron manned with 24 Apache pilots (though the most that any one Squadron had was 19). So 24 pilots and 6 Squadrons equals 144. Add the RHQ element (times 2) that must be at least 3 each Regiment adds up to 150 pilots, then the training Squadron at Middle Wallop, IIRC should be 24 QHIs, so 174 Apache drivers if we were to be fully manned.

Plan B. Each Squadron should now be 20 pilots, 6 Squadrons equals 120 pilots, so that leaves 14 pilots/QHIs for AH Training at Wallop.

The Corps are failing in their attempt to retain AH pilots. In 2006 9 Regt had 36 LCR Apache pilots, 3 Regt had a dozen or so as did AH Training. So two years later we're up to 93. At this rate we'll never fill the manning plot.

[Gnd]

What I really want is some long term truth. I have looked at all 3 services and it is a basic question of life style. What life do you want?

I for one am so fed-up with my lot but there is little to do about it bar pull the plug - an option I am seriously considering.

What are the pros and cons of each service - from 'them that knows'? If we all had that information, we might make some better arguments or decisions!!

Jurnos spouting is heartening but I have never seen 'them that does' react! FRI - more Helis - life work balance, I have no idea what will make it better.

Answers on a post please??????:(

[ianp]

", as well as the ageing Sea King and Merlin helicopter fleets."

I know the good old SeaKing is knocking on a bit but the Merlin is a mere youth in brit mil terms!

[Prat At The Back]

Is it just a shortage of helo pilots or is it much deeper than that? What about FJ and Multis?

[Final Flare]

In my humble opinion, and it is humble and my own, the Army Air Corps do absolutely nothing to retain pilots and such is the demand for civvie pilots at the moment (7 year low) why should pilots remain in an environment where the get to see their families every once in a while. I left/was pushed some years ago and looking back on it, it was the best thing i could have done. Having only served 12 years, 5 as a pilot and after some small indiscretions on my behalf had transference, lynx and definately QHI blocked as career routes. Now have a very stable flying job, am an FI on 6 types and have 8 on my licence. Pay is alot more than i could have hoped for and i dont get shot at. Bloody green grass over here.

[Front Seater]

And this is my humble opinion,

Something had better be done soon otherwise JHC is going to have a whole load of young guys tearing around the sky with very little depth or experience left in the squadrons. I could not believe my ears when I heard a civil servant matter of factly remark that the credit crunch, oil prices and subsequent pinch on the airline market would alleviate the mass exodus of service aircrew!

He obviously hasn't looked at the Flight Global website recently to see that (funny old thing) oil companies are now expanding their exploration activities and which (funny old thing) only helicopters can get to.

There is a shortage of rotary pilots across all Services - of course there is. Yes money does play a huge part in it - CHC/Bristows aircrew can now easily earn above the salary of a military pilot - and the old 6 weeks on 6 weeks off (or what ever the rosta) is certainly more stable than JHC units (and when you are home with a civilian employer - you are exactly that - home!). What I am finding is that it is the loved ones that are forcing their aircrew partners to leave because bottom line a divorce and custody battles are far more expensive (and painful) than any FRI. Currently the FRIs (for some!) and salaries are not providing the balance to those that regularly deploy into harms way - and we are no longer talking NI or the Balkans here.

The hierarchy and the Treasury can say what they want about not increasing public sector pay, but as always it will be market forces and there is a lot out there to either 'push' aircrew of the Forces out or 'pull' them into civvie street.

There are other factors apart from the obvious of pay and family. I am fortunate in that I fly one of JHC's most advanced aircraft - however, I do know that there are others that are litterally flogging a dead horse with their aircraft type and their morale is pretty low. I have witnessed crews (no names no pack drills - but we know the airframe) get really disappointed because they could not deliver what the guys wanted, and so were replaced by something else that could do their job for them. No wonder so many of those aircrew either leave or transfer to something that 'does what is advertised on the tin' and delivers something.

The last thing which I find amazing is that the whole agency and civilianisation of key organisations and desks has effectively eaten away at the forces morale from the inside. Whether it is the JPAC 'disineterested' operator or the Treasury that has absolutely no idea what the implications and consequences of its decisions when it doesn't fund aircraft and equipment.

Afghanistan and Iraq are a long way from the British public, especially in tight economic circumstances and a Govt that is struggling.

Family, Pay, Equipment and Leadership - not rocket science

[proper_brevet]

I am currently a WSOP and maybe looking for a career change. How do we go about crossing over to the AAC to become a pilot. Any hints and tips or contacts for me. Ta

[jingly]

There cannot be a shortage of helo pilots/crew etc.
I PVRd and left about a year ago and nobody in the system was interested in retaining me. Spoke to others from FJ and Multis who have the same story.

What you need to realise is that the forces do not care about you, you are just a number. Nobody is responsible for retention, therefore nobody in the system is forced to retain you.

Initially I wasn't 100% convinced I was doing the right thin,g but nobody was interested when I PVRd so that just reinforced my feelings that nobody gave a flying fcuk about me.

I watch the news each day and see another serviceman killed in the Stan and think, why has he been forced to make such a sacrifice? Eventually the politicians will pull us out and we will have made no difference.

I have been left saddened by my time in the RAF and see that my personnal legacy was contributing to Iraq and Afghanistan. Niether of which I can be proud of.

[MyTarget]

I don't miss it one bit i get paid better now and life is good....................The grass is greener.

[chcoffshore]

I agree.............there are jobs a plenty in civvie street!

[Letsby Avenue]

Funny that - After nearly 10 years I still miss life in green, wanted nothing more than to fly and teach on the 64 - but as soon as I hit 40 I was out on my ear :ouch: IMHO the AAC need to introduce spec aircrew quicker than quick.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Or maybe it could assimilate to the light blue and therefore remove the current age 40 and other career issues that seem to dog it's very existence.

This is not an attemp to turn this into another blue/green debate but just a humble thought on how to address some of the AAC issues :ok:

[breakscrew]

Letsby, the Army have introduced a system called Versatile Engagement (VEng) which allows SNCOs to serve to age 55. The AAC are giving it to aircrew who have a specialisation (Spec aircrew) like QHIs, TPs, EWOs etc.
They are listening and trying (yes, I know, very trying....) and do care, albeit it doesn't feel like it sometimes. It is just that the wheels grind exceedingly slow, particularly when they are sunk up to their axles in Treasury mud.

[timex]

Meanwhile the guys are still leaving in droves.....:sad:

[Gnd]

Bollix to assimilation, why don't we keep our identities (has no bearing as we would still have to do the same jobs) and sack the multitude of high ranking pen pushers who tend to make our (certainly mine) lives so difficult. We could then put forward 'up-to-date' policies and ideas ourselves, let the one or 2 remaining rubber stamp it and we would have pots of money saved for our airframes.

Amazed that one force found 2 OF4s for the HQ just to stop them being outnumbered, even managed to get 2 more LSN (PIDS for the bureaucratic mongs)!!!

Who needs promotion on PA, bums on seats and not sprogs is what we need??????:8

[Muzza9999]

From what I hear the new man in charge at DAAvn is retaining, retaining retaining. "If they can be kept, they will be kept" is the new attitude, which marks a departure from the bloke before who was more "what? He wants to leave? Tell him to f*ck off and we didn't want him anyway."

I served 8 years, qualified Lynx and Gazelle, just promoted, and when I signed off I got neither a letter nor a phone call. Not even an interview. You'd think I'd got fired rather than gracefully left to pursue pastures new...Mind boggling stuff.

Does this mean they may bring back the FRI?

[wg13_dummy]

Agree that the new man in DAAvn is trying his hardest to put out fires that the previous fcukwit started. It’s a slow and uphill struggle though. It’s going to be hard to replace the experience that vanished over the past few years and cannot be done 'just like that'. As gnd suggested, the treasury can’t quantify 'experience' and just tot up the numbers. As it happens, the numbers are low and only slightly getting better. Those numbers are new blokes with limited experience. A sure fire recipe for a smoldering hole in the ground. Op experience on these chaps may be seen as a bonus but its quite a specific experience for short periods of time but the non op time gives them no rounded flying time.

We (the AAC) are feeling the results from policy set in place a few years ago. We almost exclusively recruited Direct Entry AAC officers to fill the Apache slots. Unfortunately we neglected the peripheries. Those DE AAC officers are now leaving in their droves due to lack of flying, pants jobs and a lack of command potential. Traditionally, the gaps would be filled with 'cheap labour' NCO pilots. Unfortunately, we either released a huge number of them (refusal of the previous DAAvn to sanction extension of service) or got them to fill SO3 jobs due to the lack of suitably experienced and qualified Captains. They too then banged out to 10 Regt AAC (Air Amb/Police) due to being fecked over on the career front.

I wish the new DAAvn all the luck in the world as he has his work cut out for him. Retention of experience is always going to be a tough nut to crack. Especially when you don’t have huge bags of money to throw at the issue.

For those that wish to stay, it’s a buyer’s market. I'm sure you could ask for the world and almost get it in this climate. That in itself is a scary thought.

[Megawart]

Retention....regardless of cost.

Simple

[Mister-T]

This is an interesting thread and you make some good points WG13

I am actually serving in one of those SO3 slots as a WO and well beyond my 22. My personal experience has been very up and down and I was originally enticed by MCM to stay by being able to achieve FRI 2. Sadly with my continuance beginning in August 2006 the FRI was chopped on the 31st March that year. That has now been addressed albeit slightly by the PES (A) qualification changes which bring its application back to the 22 year point but we remain capped at lvl 22 so it suits those arriving at the 22 years point as a SNCO much better than those arriving at WO.

I am devoted to the Corps, I am true Blue and to be honest I don't really know that I will be comfortable doing anything else at the moment but I am also saddened at the loss of some very good people, outstanding people even. Unlike me they have bitten the bullet and moved on, usually to better things and all of them seem to be doing well.

I hope we can address this issue and in a timely manner as the men and women of this Corps are and should be our most treasured asset.

[PNVS]

The AAC manning wing really is not bothered one jot. I was an Apache QHI with over 1000 hours on type and I left because if I stayed I would be in a far worse financial position than staying in. £60000 tax free and over £1000 a month for leaving when DAAvn withdrew the FRI and caused all manner of clusters in the basic administration of the most valuable asset he had (P2 pay, capped PA spine, SSC to IRC ect) The funny thing was it was still good fun and a fabulous job, working with keen dedicated people below the SO1 level. No phone calls, letters or thanks for 24 years. The only sad thing was I didn’t expect any.

[MightyGem]

No phone calls, letters or thanks for 24 years.
Just the same as when I left 11 years ago, so not much has changed, then. :ugh:

[AHQHI656SQN]

PNVS. Please checks your PM's:ok:

[Tiger_mate]

I was an Apache QHI with over 1000 hours on type and I left because if I stayed I would be in a far worse financial position than staying in.

Its been a long day, and it may well be me: But that does not make sense to me.

[jayteeto]

Tiger mate is correct, read it carefully, it basically says he is better off staying in!!

[Staticdroop]

I thought it was just me who got f***k all when he left the Average Air Corps even wrote my own ditty for the red book as nobody gave a t**s. I just wish the guys still serving would get a better deal than i got, and from what i hear it's a start but probably to late. However if you don't like it get out the grass is greener, there's more money and more time off than you can shake a stick at out here, and the flying can be more challenging as well.:ok:

[wazz'n'zoom]

Forgive me for being a cynic but there is plan, by the current RAF Chief of the Air Staff(CAS), to make all things rotary (stand fast the grey Lynx/Merlin, he doesn't want them), RAF manned and controlled within his tenure. This plan, balsey in anyones watch, could be achieved if the current downturn in Army Aviators continues and plays right into his hands. Makes you wonder if his plan is reaching into the TA flight going, FBH QHI training the SAS pilots on their new type etc etc. I understand (from a colleagues son at Tech Trg school) that the Harrier tech's are still doing Apache Tech as their background study in preparation to take over the AH fleet. When the CAS makes CDS (now well with his reach) I wonder if he'll fully realise his dream?
But in the end, as long as the guy's on the ground can get covering airborne firepower, be it Light/Dark Blue, Green or Marine that is all that matters, to me!

[mutleyfour]

Wazz, I doubt if anyone cares any more if they wear Blue, Purple, or Green as all they want is to be treated the same as the rest of the Aircrew fraternity.

[wazz'n'zoom]

:DWell said Sir

[Occasional Aviator]

Wazz,

I have heard people repeat similarly paranoid rumours about the intentions of the current CAS, but:

a) It's pretty certain he won't be the next CDS, and

b) I wish he cared half as much as this about helicopters, but I don't really think he does.

In any case, I fully agree with your last point - it doesn't matter what uniform you wear as long as you're delivering operational effect. I think it has been proven in spades recently that all 3 services pull the stops out and get the job done - time everyone was treated fairly.

[Low Ball]

Mister T

Check your PM's

LB

[Mister-T]

All done LB, reply is in your box.

[MaroonMan4]

If you dont like it - then leave:

Whatever anyone says, the jobs are out there - and not just the low paid Police/Air Ambulance end of the spectrum. See the link below as some jobs are well within the reach of those that military desperately need to hang onto.

Captains - United Kingdom - Flight Crew - 200110486 - Flight Jobs (http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/job/captains-united-kingdom-flight-crew-united-kingdom-200110486.htm)

[Low Ball]

Mister T

PMs again

LB

[AHQHI656SQN]

W & Z

Who is teaching the Apache tech to your Harriers techs?

I understand (from a colleagues son at Tech Trg school) that the Harrier tech's are still doing Apache Tech as their background study in preparation to take over the AH fleet.

I take my hat off to them if they can learn two systems and not confuse one for the other in exams! :}

I think the point here is being missed. None of the services have the number of pilots required, although the RAF seem to be doing more about the problem, with help from the AAC.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

I am not a pilot, no longer SH and could not give a flying **** who owns what capability, but surely my previous suggestion that if all things "air" belonged to the light blue it would surely sort all of your parity issues out :ok:

[Tourist]

Yea, and we all know that monopolies are the best way to get efficiency, productivity, excellence and..........
....wait a minute

[minigundiplomat]

Yea, and we all know that monopolies are the best way to get efficiency, productivity, excellence and..........
....wait a minute


Remind me, how many Ships Captains/XO's are RAF/Army?

If they were RAF/Army, the ability to read a map/chart may stop embarrassing incidents of people towing Norfolk Island into the path of warships.

Yep, monopolies are obviously the best way to get efficiency, productivity, excellence and ......

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Tourist

You seem to be missing my point somewhat and assume there is something sinister in my suggestion.

If the main bone of contention is that of parity between light blue pilots and dark blue/green pilots then surely, bearing in mind we currently dont do the NCO pilot thing if all pilots were light blue and Occifers..............................:rolleyes:

[Tourist]

Seldom

I have no bone of contention at all, but I do believe that it is good to have all three services flying. It helps to provide contrasts, best practice etc.

Also, 1. Many of the Army NCO pilots would never pass the officer selection. (by saying this I am not for one second impugning the NCOs, rather the selection criteria)
2. There is no justification, in my opinion, for making all aircrew officers.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Tourist

Could not agree more with your sentiment but you would have to admit that to address the current disparity issues my solution does make some sense.

As regards your "Many of the Army NCO pilots would never pass the officer selection" not sure if you are old enough, or ever did know AJ Smith...........those that did will tell you if he could do it ANYONE could :E

[Tourist]

I don't actually believe there is a shortage of pilots in our armed forces.
What we have shortage of is clerks and nibby jobs officers.
A tiny percentage of our "aircrew" are actually flying day to day, and those that are fly, on average, ludicrously low hours per month. (stand fast those on ops, themselves a vanishingly small proportion of the total declared aircrew numbers)

I would happily average 100 hrs per month, if flying was all I did.

It is insane to pay us so much money because we are "special" enough to be able to pass flying training, and then utilise most of our time doing jobs that in any sane organisation would be done by clerks or managers paid a quarter of our wage.
It is also insane to have such a ridiculous number of senior officers (who dont fly)for such a tiny military. I bet there is one group captain/captain for every aircraft in theatre.

[minigundiplomat]

By a bizarre twist of fate Tourist, I totally agree with your last post. It is a ludicrous state of affairs.

[pr00ne]

Tourist,

Couldn't agree more.

Oddly enough that was one of the reasons that I left in the 70's...................

[Tourist]

Oh dear.

If Beagle posts next to agree with me, I think I may have to finally accept that I have gone wibble........:uhoh:

[BEagle]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/wibble.jpg

I agree!!

[Sand4Gold]

Tourist - You've got my vote.


BEagle - Timing is everything.:D:D:D

AA

[diginagain]

As regards your "Many of the Army NCO pilots would never pass the officer selection" not sure if you are old enough, or ever did know AJ Smith...........those that did will tell you if he could do it ANYONE could :E

If you think you were surprised.............

[Hueymeister]

Light Blue gain control of AH...I might come back to the fold....












but then again may be not.

[wazz'n'zoom]

AHQHI656SQN
Who is teaching the Apache tech to your Harriers techs?

I think you used to call it 'concurrent activity' in your stage one army trg and after all it ain't that complex.

I think the point here is being missed. None of the services have the number of pilots required, although the RAF seem to be doing more about the problem, with help from the AAC.

I hope that you don't lose the AH to the RAF. Just under 2 years ago we were asked to canvass the Sqn for volunteers to go on Apache exchange with the AAC. Not one volunteer came forward, that's both overtly and covertly; if that's not a confidence boost that no-one want's that job in it's current guise, I don't know what is. Right now, what most blokes want is a tour on the 7, 18 or 27 Sqn (Chinooks for the uneducated) and to join the hallowed DFC crowd.

Interestingly though, having spoken recently to PMA 32a (The crab appointer) he has 58 Army pilots waiting to transfer to the RAF!!:uhoh:
Also, an ex Army QHI at Shawbury has reported that 2 ex AAC Majors, now Flt Lt's, are on the MEARW course and are doing very well by all accounts. More are in the pipeline too.:uhoh:

Hopefully with new reins at the helm of the AAC this current bad feeling/in fighting (Oh so you use to support Folkes did you etc)will diminsish and the screaming eagle return back to it's former glory.

Remember before going FL rediculous, this is not a slanging site ,it's an info site so let's not degrade this thread to a pure slander match like, unfortunately, so many others.

[minigundiplomat]

I hope that you don't lose the AH to the RAF. Just under 2 years ago we were asked to canvass the Sqn for volunteers to go on Apache exchange with the AAC. Not one volunteer came forward, that's both overtly and covertly; if that's not a confidence boost that no-one want's that job in it's current guise, I don't know what is. Right now, what most blokes want is a tour on the 7, 18 or 27 Sqn (Chinooks for the uneducated) and to join the hallowed DFC crowd.


I agree with most of your post, but the above statement is not strictly true. A mate of mine pushed very hard for the exchange and is there now. However, it took longer than it should as the staish at the time tried to bury it, and it was only by buttonholing an Air Officer at a dinner that he managed to escape to the AAC on exchange.

[Tiger_mate]

Seldomfitforpurpose: Red Card

Putting 'names' on here is a bit off-side especially when placed in such a derogitory manner. As it happens, I have completed 2 tours with the said individual and while he may lack the plum in his throat, he is a good guy to fly with and tells it the way it is. We could do with a lot less bull**** in this mans Air Force, and the said chap would never stab you in the back whilst there was a hangar he could give you a good kicking behind.

[HEDP]

And very well he is doing too, by all accounts,

HEDP

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Seldomfitforpurpose: Red Card......... dont be a complte feckin girl :rolleyes:

"As it happens, I have completed 2 tours with the said individual and while he may lack the plum in his throat, he is a good guy to fly with and tells it the way it is. We could do with a lot less bull**** in this mans Air Force, and the said chap would never stab you in the back whilst there was a hangar he could give you a good kicking behind"

I flew with AJ on more occasions in NI and on 18 Sqn than you can shake a stick at, his sloping ground demo was a joy to behold and his QHI skills were with out doubt as good as any I saw in my 10 year SH time.

The epitomy of a Cranditz graduate................your choice fella but if you were to ask any TSW guys why they took the batteries out of the TV remote control before the Puma landed on...............hence if AJ can get through......................:E

HEDP Long may that continue to be the case :ok:

[TheInquisitor]

Tourist,
I don't actually believe there is a shortage of pilots in our armed forces.
What we have shortage of is clerks and nibby jobs officers.
A tiny percentage of our "aircrew" are actually flying day to day, and those that are fly, on average, ludicrously low hours per month. (stand fast those on ops, themselves a vanishingly small proportion of the total declared aircrew numbers)
Thank you for introducing me to an entirely new experience.....being pleased to see a post from you!

Nail...head...DH!

:ok:

[PlasticCabDriver]

your choice fella but if you were to ask any TSW guys why they took the batteries out of the TV remote control before the Puma landed on

Christ, how things fade rapidly into the mists of time, I'd forgotten that! It was enough to induce epilepsy the way he used to go through the channels. Lost count of the number of times he asked me how many O levels I had....

[R 21]

'See those birds they dont 'ave a F***in degree and they fly in 't formation' :ok:

[Seymour Belvoir]

'I can do it so why can't you?'

Ah, those were the days!

[Occasional Aviator]

You don't know. You think you know, but you don't.

[Hueymeister]

'AJ looked down and the TANS had dumped...ooooh sh*t, where the f**k are we? (Monaghan)' courtesey of JJ C @ 1992 72 Sqn Song book.

Top bloke, but an absolute menace with the remote control...hence I used to put a bin on the sat dish @V813 when he'd channel hop.

[stick393]

Ok guys I've been reading this thread with interest.

So here is my predicament.

Left the AAC in June 2006 after 27 and 27 days service.

Also no letter or thankyou, lol

I've not flown since that date. Was a QHI on Lynx Gazelle and Squirrel.

So here's the question? What would be my chances of re-enlisting, flogging a dead horse, or give it a go?

[Mister-T]

I would say pretty good considering there is a shortage of QHI in the Corps.

What have you got to lose?

I can get you the number from MCM on Monday if you havent already got it.

[ShyTorque]

Putting 'names' on here is a bit off-side especially when placed in such a derogitory manner. As it happens, I have completed 2 tours with the said individual and while he may lack the plum in his throat, he is a good guy to fly with and tells it the way it is. We could do with a lot less bull**** in this mans Air Force, and the said chap would never stab you in the back whilst there was a hangar he could give you a good kicking behind.

I agree! Said gentleman pilot is still around in civvie street and has a username here. We had a good chinwag last time I saw him at EGLW.

[MightyGem]

looked down and the TANS had dumped
Now that brings back memeories!

[Truckkie]

We now have 4 ex AAC helicopter pilots, including 2 ex QHI's, serving at the secret Wiltshire airbase.

All 4 left the AAC within the last 3 years and were commissioned into the RAF, completed a Multi-engine short course and are now flying C130K/J.

All of them stated leaving the AAC was the best thing that they have done.

About time the Army started looking after and managing it's aircrew better.

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Trukkie,

A point I have tried to make on numerous occasions :ok:

[ChristopherRobin]

Stick 393 check your personal messages.

[lsh]

We had about 4 ex-army WO QHI's on the Puma OCU, Commissioned into the RAF.
All good blokes, all skilled pilots.
No airs and graces, knew their stuff.
And, as one of them related about their short course at Cranwell, after a lot of "mouth" from a staff JNCO;
"May I have a word, if I pass this course you will have to call me Sir,
if I fail the course you will have to call me Sir, do we understand each other"!!
Where are they now?
lsh

[Bertie Thruster]

If you were not a QHI they made you do the long course at Cranwell! Mind you I was commissioned on day one at Cranwell ( I had a degree), giving me 4 months of RAF pay as well, until the Army discharged me 4 months later!:ok:

[Marly Lite]

Stick 393. All Arms are short, esp of QHIs. I'm sure the RAF'll bite your hand off if you apply.:ok:

[RODF3]

All Arms are short, esp of QHIs. I'm sure the RAF'll bite your hand off if you apply.

Don't count on it. PAS QHI with Merlin and Chinook in logbook and they did nothing to try and keep me.

[CirrusF]

All Arms are short
.....I'm sure the RAF'll bite your hand off

well that explains everything then ;-)

[minigundiplomat]

Don't count on it. PAS QHI with Merlin and Chinook in logbook and they did nothing to try and keep me


Are you by chance the person responsible for the 5 degree check? The same person who delivered a USL to the bottom of the South Atlantic?

[RODF3]

nice fishing but no!