My first Job?

[bartonfly88]

Hi, I'm 19 and finishing up my CPl Next month, and trying to decide what I want to do after that. At my club the CFI only really trains people who he will eventualy hire, and it sounds like I can start training in september. So I'm wondering if any current or past instructors think of it as a first job? It would only be a means to build hours. A float rating is another one of my options.
Any feedback will be appreciated.
C

[wigwamwilly]

work hard and become a doctor

[BEagle]

It would only be a means to build hours

Such dedication is hardly likely to endear you to other instructors or students...

[Romeo India Xray]

There are two types of instructors .... those who love it and have a pride in what they do (passing on their skill and passion) .... and those who dont. Go to a bucket-shop school in the USA and you will see just how badly students learn under the supervision of instructors who are there to just build hours - sure a few of them are very good at it, but most have the kind of attitude that shows they would much rather be in a 146 than a 152.

My advce is dont become one of those depressed individuals, doing nothing but pushing up to your 1000 hour mark.

I know a guy who has recently completed an fATPL and landed dream job with only minimum hours, so it IS possible.

Be yourself, network like crazy, get involved in as much different aviation as possible, apply to everything and everyone and things should come together for you.

[daria-ox]

Don't instruct just to build up your hours. Sorry but if that's the case then I have to say I feel sorry for your students. To be honest, I'm just doing my PPL while full time working, I work hard for every hour I fly and I wouldn't be really happy knowing that the instructor that is teaching does it just because he wants to build up his/her hours and get of this flying intructor job as soon as he/she can.
Do it because you want to get experience, you want to learn something new, something that in some way is going to change your attitude towards aviation. I have to say that becoming a flying instructor isn't that hard, but teaching a student is. I will love watching someone that I've teached become a professional pilot or instructor. I will love watching my student progress and learn new things, basically learn to fly just the way I did. It's amazing that I can show him/her what I went through to get there! It's a fact that also it will build up my hours but it's not only about that. It will be something I would really want to do.

At the moment, I found a way to do my training.
I will finish my PPL, then take my time and enjoy myself while building up hours to progress to a CPL course and then FI. Maybe I will do the ATPL exams while building hours as sometime in the future I want to move to airlines but first of all, get experience on small aircrafts as a Instructor, then maybe move to charter company and few other companies and then when I will be really wanting to move to airlines I will complete the rest of the training from my saved money from being an instructor and not only ;)

Just take my advice, don't become an instructor if your attitude is ' just to build up hours '. Because for me, you're just desperate to move to airlines and flying isn't all about that. Get some real flying experience before you move to big jets, by then you will have loads of hours and experience needed to be a great professional pilot ;)

[bartonfly88]

I dont know aboput you but most the instructors I know do it to get the hours and experiance. The average instructor at my school it the for 2 years tops and then moves on. That doesn't make the bad instructors, I think they just have higher goals set for themselves. IN truth I will do it to get hours but im not just gunna sit in the plane with my thumb in my ass. I'll take it seriously just like every other job, and then move on in a couple of years/

[pipertommy]

My own experience with instructors whilst training for both Private and Commercial licence is that if you are a professional pilot and passionate about flying, it makes no difference where your motivation to instruct comes from. Yes they may be building hours to move onwards, but they still want work to the standard of professional pilot.

Its unfair to class a budding Airline pilot(or what ever direction they wish to head in) as not caring about the welfare of his/her students development as a priority.

PT

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi pipertommy,

Its unfair to class a budding Airline pilot(or what ever direction they wish to head in) as not caring about the welfare of his/her students development as a priority.

Actually, not caring is only one of the undesirable characteristics one finds among the 'hours-builders'. A couple of years ago, when I was renewing a PPL I had not been able to use for over forty years (yes 40!), I found myself flying with a young man who just didn't have the emotional maturity to understand that one didn't have to be young, male and virile to be a capable pilot.

He plainly thought I was a silly old bat who ought to be sitting in an old folks home dribbling. He was most unpleasant to be with and his attitude affected his instructing style, which soon became one of bullying. I was too upset at the way I was being treated even to speak to the CFI about it, so I walked out of that club and never went back.

The trouble is that with FIs who only stay for a few months, by the time the club/FTO discover what damage they have done, they have left for better things and been replaced by yet another unknown quantity.

As for me, not only did I get my PPL back, I am now hard at work on my IMCR. And that instructor? Last I heard he was working for an airline. Good riddance from the instructing scene!

Broomstick.

[pipertommy]

Hi, I`m really sorry to hear that!! It should never happen, but I think it is probably, as you say, the attitude of the person rather than the path they are following.

I will be starting the FI course soon and yes I do want to progress onto bizjet or airline job in the future. This does`nt mean I`m not interested in being the best instructor I can be!! With the students put first and treating them as I would expected to be treated.

Best of luck with the IMC its great sat on top of the clouds in the sunshine:O

PT

[bartonfly88]

Yeah that sucks

[BroomstickPilot]

Good luck, pipertommy, sounds like you are going to be one of the good guys.

Broomstick.

[iq450]

Not everyone can teach. Just because someone knows how to fly doesn't mean they have that gift.

I think good FI's should be exposed to many other FIs over the course of their training so they can see what works and what doesn't.

I've been lucky enough to be exposed to some world class FIs, and their genuine desire to help others always comes through.

IQ450

[Whirlybird]

Thre's a problem here, or rather, several problems...

1) FIs aren't paid enough and don't have enough job security for many of them to stay in the job long - even if they want to.

2) The FI course teaches you very little about dealing with people or how to teach; most of it is about putting across specific flying exercises. At least, mine was.

3) A fair number of young people have a difficult time teaching older ones. that's one of the consequences of our ageist society. I daresay it works the other way round too - young instructors, do older students give you a hard time?

4) It's not fashionable to say it, or even think it, but female students are sometimes treated as though they'll obviously be hopeless and never make pilots. Note the 'sometimes'.

We need to sort out all of the above before complaining about hourbuilders!

[daria-ox]

I know that a lot of people do instructing to build hours. I was in 4 schools on trial lesson, 2 of them were great because the instructors were really nice and had a good attitude, the other 2 clubs.. I will never get back there. The instructor was just sitting there no caring if that's my dream to become a pilot or if I'l ever make it. The other one said to me that it's not a good idea for a woman to become a pilot and I have to say, I was straight out of there and as the other he didn't give a damn about me.

I want to instruct because I would love watching someone I teach progressing to different levels of training and in the future I'll have the satisfaction that I teached a lot of students who became really good pilots. It's a fact that I'm also doing it to build up hours but to be honest, it's not about the hours. It's mainly about flying and teaching.

[preduk]

Ah well... I'm going to be one of these instructors who "do it for the hours" not because I don't care about the students but because it's free flying and its a helpful step to the dream airline job.

I've flown with several instructors who are just in it for the hour building, one of them was a cracking instructor but was sadly moved away by Ryanair. I had another one who was a complete tw:mad:t although he was following the same route as Daria-Ox.

It doesn't really matter why they are instructing, it's their personality that counts the most. I've met guys from both sides some were great some were crap thats life!

[walbbj]

If you only intend to instruct just to build hours, then I would suggest you tow gliders or drop parachutists.
I have been flying now for 40 years and am still going strong...eighteen months left on my licence. I started as an instructor and put all my efforts into becoming a good instructor. In the meantime I studied by correspondence for the CPL/IR.
I eventually landed an airline job after insructing for 3 years. My instructing experience and my enjoyment of it stood me in good stead in later years when I became a Line Trainer, Sim. instructor, then TRE/IRE, Check & Training Captain on various aircraft. I think instructing gives you a lot of experience and makes you more employable as an airline co-pilot if there is a choice between two candidates, one of whom hasn't been an instrucor. So, I would say go for it, but not half-heartedly.

[VFE]

After two years of instructing it still holds something new for me everyday - granted at times one feels like one may just be going through the motions but on the whole it's a great way to fly and earn money. People with little experience who look down upon instructing as some kind of second rate flying job really don't know enough yet to realise how much they don't yet know. For example: I recently visited an integrated flying school where many of the budding airline students had yet to solo in an aircraft however, the attitude of some was unbelievably arrogant. Their attitude was little short of insulting towards instructing as a noble occupation and I found myself sat chuckling into my pint wondering if I too had been like that pre-instructing? The answer was no. These kids must really get sunshine blown up their arses at these places from day one... I guess confidence is a key part of success but when confidence and ability are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum it can only ever lead to trouble...

Personally, the idea of having someone sat up front of an airliner who hasn't come up through the ranks of flying and more importantly instructing is very sobering - granted many do and many operate as co-pilots very well but I think back to what I knew and what I had experienced as a pilot when I rolled off the fATPL production line.... two totally different beasts. As an instructor of only two years now it proper amazes me how some inexperienced "wannabes" view instructing with self elevated mockery but you can't tell these people anything unless you have 4 golds bars across yer shoulders - very pitiful state of affairs and one wonders where the romantic awe and respect for flying has gone amongst some youngsters who see operating a fly-by-wire aircraft as the be-all and end-all of their aviation career.

You could be forgiven for thinking I say this to make myself feel better that I am an instructor and not an airline pilot but when I am flying an airliner my opinion will not change.

Instructing is extremely rewarding in every respect bar financial. Don't get so preoccupied walking through the woods that you fail to appreciate the trees. Speak to any airline pilot who instructed and many will tell you that their best flying days were as an instructor. I still instruct but will miss it enormously when that day arrives!

VFE.

[frontlefthamster]

Bartonfly88,

Two decades, thousands of hours, many qualifications, and a life now in which I fly a fascinating variety of aircraft (heavy and light, jet and piston) in an exceedingly rare job, give me the freedom (and audacity) to reply to your original post as follows:

I fear you are another trainee prostitute. Trainee prostitutes have driven the profession to its present lacklustre position.

Please accept the advice earlier on, to go and train for a proper career (outside aviation), rather than starting so soon to demean yourself by entering into the 'I'm a first officer because I had money, and a minimum of ability' world.

Certainly, please don't dare end up one of those sad 'hour-building' instructors who blight the UK skies with their dismal ability, minimal interest, and dubious motivation. And I'd rather, as a professional pilot, that people simply didn't apply for jobs involving bonds, training costs to be paid, reduced terms and conditions in comparison to those already employed, etc.

In fact, Bartonfly, I think accountancy might be just your calling. :*

[VFE]

A tad harsh frontlefthamster. Although it's easy to understand the reasoning behind such a post I feel it slightly misdirected towards someone you perceive to be driving down the terms and conditions of existing commercial pilots and indeed those of the future. Sad fact is that the market has arrived at the present position through economic evolution and market forces which you will see reflected in most other professions, not just ours. People want to fly big aeroplanes and airlines know this. Gone are those halcyon days of guys earning their respect up through the ranks of aviation jobs, arriving at the hallowed position of First Officer at an age and understanding whereby they could contribute more than a mere ability to complete performance calculations and press FMS buttons.

As I said, one totally understands your point here, but feel it harsh to recommend someone give up their chosen career purely because the method of achieving their goal has changed over the years into something you and many others here, myself included, abhor. One person giving up will not change the system I am afraid to say.

A better way of addressing the issue highlighted by the original poster of this thread would be to advise they understand what being a flying instructor really means, and to value the importance of such a position on fellow aviation enthusiasts under their instruction and to themselves as a pilot. One trusts their FIC will install these points as it did many others here.

VFE.

[Badgeman]

See that's funny; I'm so into flying that I love even teaching it although the airlines are my ultimate goal, AND really, I am just building hours by CFI'ing. If I have a student fail a check-ride, it's almost as if I did too. I hate it.

[frontlefthamster]

VFE, thanks for your understanding, but I think the OP has already decided that It would only be a means to build hours and so I fear that he's already on the street corner with his stocking tops showing. I wonder whether his instructors were doing the same thing?

Sad. Very sad.

[Stan Woolley]

Frontlefthamster

I think acting the prossie will be ideal training for getting on in todays aviation industry. No?

Can't see how you're on a high horse? He could be one of the good guys.