Quantas jobs for UK pilots

[jamie230985]

on the quantas website there is a lot of info obviously directed towards Aussie pilots but little for any international pilots. does this mean UK low hr pilots have no chance of getting employment with them?

Jamie

[redsnail]

There's a couple of questions you need to ask yourself.

Do I have Australian citizenship or permanent residency in Australia?
Have I got an Australian CPL with CIR and ATPL subjects completed?

If you do not, then employment with Qantas is not possible.

[Flying Wild]

Yes, that would be a correct assumption. Despite their pilot shortage, the unions in Australia are very resistant to foreign pilots coming in to take jobs. Unless you are experienced and can be based in the UK, you've got a slim-to-none chance of getting a job with them.

[redsnail]

It has nothing to do with the unions. You must have those 2 things I mentioned. Without citizenship or a visa, forget Australia.

The only recent exception is Qantaslink has had to offer Visa 457 to Canadians and South Africans because there aren't enough experienced pilots willing to work for QL (read for the salary)

[mr.tos]

Learning how to spell QANTAS would be a great start :ok:

[Rhodes13]

Could it possibly have entered your mind that the Ozzies over here have the right to work and live in Europe through their ancestors? So when you have the right to live and work in Australia then you can come and bitch about it!

[redsnail]

Yes, one of my relatives was a criminal and sent out. Criminals always return to the scene of the crime, so here I am.

Any way, I have a UK passport because my father was born in Scotland. My husband's grandparents were born in Scotland so he has a visa.

If your parents/grandparents were born in Australia you'd have the same access.

If you want to complain about "fair", then why don't you compare both countries immigration policies. You'll find it a heck of a lot easier to get into Australia than vice versa if you have no ancestral rights.

Protectionalism? Don't make me laugh. Go and compare converting a JAA licence to an Australian one and vice versa. JAA land are past masters at protectionalism!

When I worked in Australia, a great deal many of pilots had "foreign" accents. Whether it be American, Canadian, French, British etc. They all had one thing. The right to live and work in Australia.

[redsnail]

flapsfullretard, the '89 dispute has nothing to do with my post about the number of foreign folks flying in Australia. Most of those guys have retired, about to retire or lost their jobs when Ansett collapsed in 2001. I don't have a problem with someone flying in Australia being born OS. If they are flying in Oz, they have either an Australian or New Zealand passport or a visa, also they have a CASA licence. In every company I worked for, approx 10% were foreign born. Absolutely nothing to do with the pilots dispute. Age isn't an issue. They either turned up when their parents migrated or migrated there themselves.

I don't think there are many low houred young Australians working for airlines in the UK. Don't confuse young southern hemisphere types on a gap year holiday with permanent migrants. I could name a couple of bars in Cairns that were chock full of British backpackers. Doesn't mean they're all going to work for Qantas or Virgin Blue.

I am here because I happen to be entitled to a UK passport. Why am I entitled? My father was born in Scotland. I would bet my house that the vast majority of southern hemisphere types you are talking about have British parents or grandparents. If I tried to migrate to the UK without any ancestral ties, I couldn't. (unless I was a nurse, a doctor or some mega rich person) Australia ran the £10 tourist scheme (Assisted passage) for many years. Many British (and other European) folks took up that offer from the Australian government so that's why so many Australians have access to a UK passport.

The Emirates pilot tale is a strange one. QF long haul weren't a part of the pilots dispute. (they weren't members of the AFAP)

dj. You apply for a visa before you go. It's all on the Australian immigration website.


I am beginning to think that the original poster is a troll..... and it worked... :ugh:

[Rhodes13]

Flapfullretard

Question do you complain about the other nationalities that fly for UK airlines? If not why not? What about other Europeans?

Can you go and fly for Air france? In theory yes but practically no you cant unless you speak French! Isnt that also a form of protectionism?

The JAA are the masters of protectionism! 14 exams to fly an aircraft I already knew how to fly, then an MCC and then a stupidly high price to fly thats what I call protectionism.

You are more than welcome to any jobs in Auatralia, just go and get the visa or marry an Ozzie and convert then apply.

[bluesideoops]

Interesting that everyone has digressed completely from the point and started a racist bagging of each other! so much for civilised societies.

[redsnail]

flaps, I am a British citizen. I have a passport to prove it. I've worked in Australia and I don't want to fly a regional t/prop again. Oh, my job? I don't fly a G- reg aircraft. :E When I left Australia, there wasn't the pilot shortage that is happening now. So, there's nothing stopping a UK citizen chancing their arm and emigrating.

The vast majority of pilots who come from OS (eg Australia or New Zealand) have thousands of hours and therefore, the UK low houred pilots aren't really going for the same job. Whose fault is it that an antipodean pilot with thousands of hours on jets gets hired by easyJet? If they couldn't fulfil the company's requirements for the licence and right of abode, they wouldn't get the job. The CAA has rules about the experience mix in airlines. How many low houred antipodean pilots are there in the UK?

Australians and New Zealand pilots are used to shifting thousands of kilometres for their first and second (and probably third) job. First job? Probably flying a C206 or something similar. However, shifting overseas isn't the easiest thing in the world and makes you far more determined to get a job.

I don't think antipodean pilots are taking all the jobs in the UK.

If you have issues with the present governments' immigration and employment laws, take it up with your local representative.

[Rhodes13]

Flapsfullretard heres an idea how about the UK ceases all overseas trade and bans all things that aren't produced in the UK as well as immigration. Would that solve the problem of no jobs for UK people?

Why do you not complain about the british pilots in the sandpit or on Asia? Or would that make a very big hole in your argument? You don't seem to be understanding the point that every ozzie that is here has the RIGHT OF ABODE to the UK and thus is a UK CITIZEN. When will you get that through your thick head?

I pay uk taxes I have a national insurance number what more would you like? Once again you seem to convientently ignore the fact that BA, BMI and easyjet etc has plenty of Dutch italians etc and the like flying for it. Why not start a thread about how BA should kick those people out? Do you complain about all the English flying for Ryanair. By your logic they are displacing an Irish wannabe? No why not?

As such your argument about displacing english people is moot. Is it our fault that we have hours when we came over. Maybe you would like me to say I have none or give up those hours. Since when does an English person have a god given right to fly an airliner just because they are english?

As for low houred Oz pilots from Overseas I can name about ten that I know, from austria, india and south africa. You know what the common factor was? They had the right of abode for Australia!

Or is it just because you are xenophobic and cant stand the fact that the best person got the job that was going?

[Dreamshiner]

Kinda wish my ancestors stole a loaf of bread and were dumb enough to get caught 200 years ago, oh well ho hum.

I've been reading this with interest as I hope to emigrate to Oz at some time in the future. The issue for me is this, I have an uncle living in Cairns, I'd be able to get sponsorship through him as last remaining family member plus all my points in the scoring system puts me up pretty high.

However if I am awarded right to live in Australia do I have to take it up immediately or can I wait until I have a job offer?

Don't want to go through the process and then have to move without anything and have to give up the award of residency because I can't get a job or alternatively go through the process and have the paperwork before someone will employ me.

It's definitely a chicken and egg thing. I do want to work in Australia as I think it has taken the best parts of the UK and the best of the US and left a lot of the b/s behind. Similar sports to home, same language (almost - G'day) and outdoors culture and nice climate.

I'll admit that it was hard for me to get one foot on the ladder as someone who was brought up in the UK to find a job with a UK company but that down to a few reasons:

1. English is the Lingua Franca of aviation, if you fly commercially you speak English to a degree, therefore the UK is open to you (27 European Union countries now + commonwealth)

2. We were a colonial power, we spread our language and peoples to the far reaches of the planet and as a result we have a lot who can reclaim access to our country via ancestry visas.

3. UK airlines basic business sense - a) take a 250 hour British pilot or b) ex Ansett/bush pilot with 3,000+ with right to live and work, despite excessive use of the word "mate", love or BBQ's and farts and nodding their head in satisfaction.

Not the best for us "home growns", but I don't think anyone can argue anything in aviation has been fair since the mid 80's (so I'm told)

[Rhodes13]

Sorry the right of abode is the argument. I have full rights to be here as do you. When do I become a UK citizen? After 4 generations? 6? How many?
What you are effectively saying is that unless you are born here and can trace your roots back to day dot you have no right to be here. Well if that isnt a xenophobic myopic view I dont know what is!

You should be happy that people are choosing to move to the UK. Immigration into UK plc has been overall good for the economy. I pay my taxes and help support those English out of work. We could ban all overseas pilots and you would still have unemployed uk pilots.

You created the system when you let JAA and the EU run the market. Are you actually going to sit there and say that we should stop all that and go back to the old days. The liberalization created through the EU and JAA has allowed a hell of a lot more pilots to earn a living than ever before.

The argument about being in jets for guys from oz is irrelevant as the guys I knew were building time and you are comparing two totally different markets. Im sure there are guys from overseas flying for the big red rat and good on em.

Tell me what would you do. Remove all pilots flying for English airlines? You do that and the whole system/companies will collapse! Lets pull out all the pilots flying overseas and guess what the young wannabe will still be out of a job. Why because there is always someone more experienced than them. And then where will the precious uk pilot be?

You want to work overseas learn the language and have the right of abode!

Tell me do you read the daily mail?:ugh:

[Dreamshiner]

A popular misconception I thought was reserved only for those filthy rebel yanks was to use the term 'English' when 'British' is correct. Now I find our colonial cousins using and making the same mistakes.

Makes me weep

[dxbpilot]

Guys relax ! Not the Aussies fault that the british gave Australia away. Not the Aussies fault that the UK has piss poor immigration standards. Can you blame the Aussies for being careful who they let in ? They have learned a big lesson from the UK. Because once they are in, the goverment are so politically correct they can't be sent home. (Where ever they may be from).

FlapsFullRetard, We can all understand your frustration with your own country.

Have a good look at BA. Its quite amazing that they don't prioritise British nationals for their jobs. Its just a normal fact that Emirates make sure a local will always get a job over a foreigner and then hire the required pilots from where ever.

I'm sure if Qantas can't get the required pilots that they will provide visa's for experienced pilots. The fact is most Australian's can't get into Qantas !!

[potkettleblack]

To all those young wannabes musing about all the ozzies, kiwis, yanks, saffas etc etc taking their jobs well unfortunately you are blaming the wrong people. Look closer to home to find out why you are out of work. Show a bit of initiative and the jobs are there for the right people. Then again just sit in front of your pc and send off a thousand CV's and wait for a chief pilot to give you a buzz. The problem with this game now is that it is a process of self selection and there are far to many people that have paid out big bucks that will never ever ever cut the mustard.

If nothing is happening head off to Africa, get some hours and start door knocking in any part of the world you like thereafter. Just like the colonials have been doing for years. I look forward to hearing your "accents" up in the airways and good luck.

[GB118]

Sorry to detract from the colonial argument here, but does anyone know the process of converting over to an Austrailian CPL exams etc.... Have tried searching the net but keep getting conflicting advice.

Cheers!

(feel free to keep arguing!!):ok:

[Benny71]

GB118,

I believe to convert a JAA CPL to an AUS CPL all that is required is for you to do a Flight Rules & Air Law exam, obtain a Class 1 medical (only available in Australia) and then a flight test with an Approved Testing Officer. There are plenty off ATO's around, and often large flying schools have them as CFIs or have a couple they use regularly for testing.

All of this is an awful lot cheaper and quicker than coverting an Aus CPL to a JAA CPL.

[redsnail]

GB118,

Get it from the horse's mouth. CASA (http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/overbr.htm)

You can get an Australian Class 1 medical in the UK. Now, whether it's an initial or a renewal might be a different thing. The CASA website should provide all the answers.

(Dr Cranston at Harpenden can do Aus medicals)

[nick2007]

As far as getting Australian PR/working visas go.. it's really not hard for Poms (compared to people from some other backgrounds), especially those with appropriate qualifications. So... stop complaining, and count yourself lucky!

[smith]

BBC NEWS | Business | Airline Qantas to cut 1,500 jobs (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7513146.stm)

copy and paste the link, don't think you'll have much chance at the moment.

Incidently don't worry about spelling QANTAS properly as it is not a word, it is in fact an acronym for Queensland and Northern Territories Air Service.

[redsnail]

You're close.

Try Queensland and Northern Territory Aerial Services.

wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qantas)

These guys take it very seriously in the interview process that you (the prospective pilot) know who they are, their history, their fleets and the current challenges.

[GB118]

thanks for the response guys, appreciated!

[TerryAAE]

Good luck all you job hunting blokes;) As a matter of interest when I was a bit younger and living in Western Queensland we did call it QUANTAS and we took it to stand for Queensland And Northern Territory Aerial Services Pty Ltd as we saw painted on the signs at Charleville and Cloncurry and other places :) I think it was in the late 1950's that some lucky painting contractor got to go around and paint QANTAS on everything .....

[bagmeister]

1st you really ought to be able to spell qantas and know what it stands for...:ok:

[Groundloop]

Have a good look at BA. Its quite amazing that they don't prioritise British nationals for their jobs.

Could be because it is illegal! Also most "foreign" pilots flying for UK airlines are likely to be EU nationals who have every right to be here. There are also lots of UK pilots flying for European airlines. It's what the EU free movement of labour is all about.

[Vortex Thing]

I think the point that fullflaps was trying to make is that British airlines should fill vacancies with British passport holders first and then people with right of abode such as EU nationals or those with ancestral rights.

If however this is not what he/she meant then it certainly is what I think!! We should do what every other nation seems to do better than us and that is employ British born, British passport holders first and then others if the standards cannot be reached. German, Dutch, French and Spanish airlines do this all the time why we don't do the same is a mystery.

Just before someone asks do I mean by that that we should take less qualified Brits instead of better qualified other nationality pilots with right of work/abode.... errmmmm yes why not British pilots are unlikely to get the experience they need and then leave British aviation when they have taken what they needed so why wouldn't you.

[MAX]

Airline H.R. Depts can see right through racist and discriminatory applicants.

Be it BA, Qantas or otherwise.

MAX:cool:

[BelArgUSA]

After QUANTAS do we also get QUATAR...?
:ok:
Happy contrails

[happyjack]

Bugger!
'Lost that bet now. 'Been going for years that Qantas was the only Q not followed by a U.
Do I risk another $10 that there isn't another one?

[Adios]

I find it puzzling that in one breath FlapsFullRetard slags non UK pilots for taking the jobs and in another slams them because later they will leave the UK and take that experience away. Which is it, does he want them here or not?

It would be a sad day if the airlines were put in charge of policing the borders or determining immigration policy. This is for Parliament to legislate and the Home Office and the UK Border Agency to police. Complaints about unfairness or perceived economic harm should go to one's MP, not Pprune, unless one merely wants to vent and doesn't really care deep down if it ever changes.

[Vortex Thing]

No one is asking the airlines to replace immigration policy. I think the point here is not about being racist or xenophobic, I have made no mention of race, colour or creed the only issue here is passport. It would be racist to assume that having a British passport assumes anything other than that you are British. This issue here is about non EU passport holders. Many other countries put their nationals first and we don't which is why our economy is slowing compared to the other major European nations.

I have no problem with a controlled immigration policy that works on a points system whereby only those people of significant economic or educational, etc benefit are allowed to apply to live and work here. Before you tell me that we have a fair system, please tell me why asylum seekers and economic migrants queue up in France to get to UK having travelled from places like Eritrea, Iran, India, etc if their lot was so bad they would be content to be out of their home country where they have left to avoid war, pestilence, famine or maybe just a lack of prospects. Why would they choose UK over France, Germany, etc could it be because we have the weaker immigration policy.

The caveat should however be that work permits are ONLY given when a British airline can demonstrate that they CANNOT fill their cockpits with a qualified British or EU passport holder (in that order)

i.e. I genuinely believe that you should turn down a suitably qualified national from ANY country other than Britain with 4000hrs in favour of a 2500hr British pilot for a Captains position as an example.

I assume that the government that you talk of is the same government that allows the DfT and CAA to do nothing about the appalling attitude of security staff at our major airports which causes many of us daily misery. The same government that sends our troops under equipped to war. The same government that squanders money on people too idle to help themselves which it could spend on those who actually deserve helping and the same government that is meant to be watching over people like Haringey council. Is this the government of which you speak because their track record of doing the right thing at the right time is hardly glowing.

Would be nice if they got tough on newly qualified CPL debt, tough on the causes of newly qualified CPL debt...

[Trimmed_Flaps]

......you might then want to retract the following from your previous post

employ British born, British passport holders first .

Or perhaps you should actually look up 'xenophobic' in the dictionary.:=:=:=:=

[Vortex Thing]

Xenophobia is an intense dislike and/or fear of people from other countries.

......you might then want to retract the following from your previous post

Trimmed flaps maybe you want to open your mind and perhaps your eyes. I do not in any way advocate racism, xenophobia or anything of that ilk you are waaay off mark if you think that.

I mean exactly what I said. British born applicants with British passports implies nothing other than the fact that they are British not any race, colour or creed. I have much family and friends who are Canadian, US citizens and South African or Australian and would rather see them unemployed in UK and a British pilot I have never met employed as this is what is best for our economy.

I think that we should do as every other country willingly does in Europe if not in the world and employ our own pilots first. Why?

If you can buy a British product that is as good you should buy that, if you can use a British service industry over a foreign one you should BUT only if it is at least the same standard. If the British industry cannot come up with a suitable good then you should buy the import.

Why because the revenue stays in our economy, employs our workers. This means that we have more employment, more employment = more tax raised = stronger economy = more investment & more exporting thus creating an even stronger economy etc. You are investing in your country so that British businessess can pay more than competitor countries thus keeping our talent who can be suitably rewarded.

I drive a German car, use Microsoft software and own a Finnish mobile phone why because I cannot get better value for money and longevity for THAT product.

If the British government had more tax raised and spent more on our schools and university then our workers would be better qualified. If they were better qualified then they would make them more attractive to young talented Brits
this would lead to innovation and better products. Better products = increased revenue which means companies can invest more on R&D and attracting and retaining the top talent. This means even better products and the cycle goes on. perhaps if this was the case I would have a suitable British choice but to be honest we don't which is why Nokia and Sony are up there in the market.

All in all it means that our children will have better opportunity in a nice strong market economy rather than having to go and work for German or US firms because British firms do not pay enough or do not have the money to invest in innovation.

Training a national from another country to go back to their own country and make their economy stronger is not investing in the future of British aviation.

This is not xenophobia if we are to become the United States of Europe with a completely free economy and employment then this is fine with me but that should mean that I have as much chance of getting into Lufthansa, KLM or Air France as I have of getting British Airways. Condor and Thomas Cook should see me as exactly the same product. I think we know that the market (languages aside) does not work that way elsewhere and until it does we should protect our own economy first by employing British pilots first and other nation pilots 2nd.

This is not about hatred or fear this is purely about the future of our countries industry.

[MAX]

Vortex old chum, it is you who is blinded. Perhaps you should re-read what others have posted.

I (and others) take offence to the the fact you believe you must be born in Britain to be British!! :yuk:

My passport is the same as yours matey and Im proud of my heritage (both sides of it).

Whilst my accent may be different, sadly for you, my pilots license is JAR.

Having worked many many years in the UK I cant say I have ever flown with such a p!ss weak cry baby with such a hard done by attitude.

For the record I know many British pilots working in Europe. I suggest the difference between them and you is they actaully got off their computer!

Now stop crying in your pint glass and let it go..... You are hanging on too tight.

I agree with the view of Trimmed.

MAX:cool:
Proud to be British but born elsewhere!!

[Vortex Thing]

MAX You need to reread my post.

I DO NOT believe that you have to be born in Britain to be British.

I DO NOT believe that those born outside of Britain should not be entitled to British Citizenship, British Subjecture, British Protected Status, et al

I further DO NOT believe that EU citizens should not have the right to live and work across Europe. I have lived and worked in other European countries!

I'm not crying about anything and don't feel remotely hard done by. It does not affect me at all at my stage of my career and it was being on my computer that got me the job I have! Also can't help that notice that you have more posts/length of time on this forum that I. Pot. Kettle?

My point is a point of order about the future of British Aviation. It is unfair to label someone xenophobic because they do not agree with you. I respect your view, which you are entitled to and I am willing to defend your right to have it but I differ in my opinion and that is my right and I would expect you to do me the same courteousy without insinuating that I dislike or fear other nationalities.

I would be happy to be second in the queue in Holland to a Dutch pilot or the same in Poland, Germany etc. I think that it should be one rule for all. We should either all take our own nationalities first or equally select from a whole EU/JAR pool equally. Frankly I don't care which but it should be the same everywhere. It isn't and it is that with which I disagree.

Some people have a different view to you get over it or argue your point but name calling is for those without the intellectual horsepower to back up their argument with something of substance.

[Trimmed_Flaps]

The future of British aviation!! Great spin chum.

Unless you spell xenophobia with a 'W' then no-one labelled you a thing.

No-one with a bag of experience will be falling into line behind you should you have to hit the job trail again.

The truth hurts, as will the trampling.

Trimmed.

[Vortex Thing]

Peoples willingness to put themselves above others, even when it is not the correct thing to do does not make it correct.

I am not saying I expect that people will put anything other than themselves first. What I am saying is that they sometimes SHOULD. The fact that people rarely choose to look further than their own bank balance is the reason that this country is slowly but surely going to the dogs and being overtaken by other countries in many aspects. The values you subscribe to appear to be those of the US not the UK IMHO.

Is my view idealistic, perhaps. Will things get better, unlikely.

Does that mean that I should give up hoping that the world will become a better place where people put their country first and themselves second, no I won't. Does that mean that I should give up hope that British firms will look past their next quarter into the next decade, no I won't.

I just hope that there are enough people like me out their to bring up their children so that they will be willing to go out and fight for YOUR right to put yourself first and those who provided you with that right second.

The difference I fear will be lost on you as you now it is the end of November. People like Max tout pride of their heritage but seemingly have probably forgotten the price paid in blood to make that heritage. People like you use words like xenophobic when I fear and/or dislike no one due to thier nationality.

Will the trampling hurt? Probably but I was built such that even if I die for what I believe in then it is worth it. Luckily for you people are built like me or you wouldn't have the right to scoff and then trample....