Uncontrolled Airways

[galaxy flyer]

I recently transited DKR-JNB on the airways offshore to Windhoek, then across Botswana. Are these airways suffixed on the Jepps as F and G airspace, truly uncontrolled? I said so, the Captain said he wanted a clearance and eventually Luanda gave us a clearance from FL 410 to FL 450, but was it necessary? Yes, we were doing TIBA broadcasts. Corp jet, that doesn't often go there.

GF

[Wyle E Coyote]

Some parts of the continent are just slightly more controlled than others. Just be thankful that not many of us can fly that high, reducing ATC’s chances of directing another aircraft into you.

Strange you got any response at all. At FL 410, you're well outside the range of most of those war era radios bull-dog clipped to an old car battery, that seem to pass for ATC. NAM and BOTS both have some large dead zones.

[galaxy flyer]

Thanks for the response. Actually, I don't think we ever lost radio contact, for long, anyway. Luanda came in clear and SELCAL worked OK, too. Roberts was more interested in having our home contact information than anything else. But does ATC excercise any control on them? I was in AMC when the US C-141 and the German TU collided and, for awhile, airspace knowledge was the topic du jour for mission evals. Only recently, have I had the chance to actually put any of the theory to the text.

GF

[CJ750]

Everybody wants your address so they can send you an account for something..........even talking to you on the radio

[Wyle E Coyote]

Spot on. We got "bills" from everyone and no-one when ever we crossed a boundry. Didn't pay them. We'd paid nav, airways, landing, the odd 'instant fine' or 'un-receiptable charge' to keep the wheels greased....there's always some sod looking to line his pockets.

It's a special place. I changed freqs one day, in time to hear a controller sh*tting on a guy (over Bots) for obeying an RA. The controller (who doesn't have radar) was shouting into the radio "how dare you not obey my clearances" along with "you pilots think you know everything" and "you make a report"

I hope he did. Do you obey the TCAS, or some guy with a KX-155 jerry-rigged to a car battery? I filed on several of them, more for myself than anything else. Nothing gets done. We're not seen as pilots concerned about ourselves and the fare-paying pax, We're just collonial demons, trying to tell them how to run their country.

The controller probably didn't understand the request, or just gave you what you wanted to shut you up - you're happy (clearance received), he's happy (gets to finish his joint). No harm done.

There are some excellent controllers there, some of which I will (and have) trusted my life with, yet are hampered by a lack or resources. others have a lack or resources, and are hampered by a lack of skill and ability.

I nearly had a mid-air in Africa. It was the closest I have ever come to another aircraft while it was flying. I was in controlled airspace, and was obeying instructions. I survived and it made me much wiser. I guess we were lucky.

(Apologies for the thread drift)