Lawyer v Pilot

[ElSupremo]

Hi,

I've recently completed my law degree and now have a very difficult decision to make in regards to my career. I can either do another year in uni (Legal practice course which costs £10k) to qualify as a solicitor (I'd then be able to attain a training contract - i.e. on the job training) or go down the airline pilot route (i.e. CTC Wings etc). both have their advantages and disadvantages:

LAWYER:

Advantages:

- great salary (i.e. in the City up to £150k)
- presitious career
- stable job

Disadvantages:

- a bit boring
- highly competitive (training contracts etc)

PILOT:

Advantages:

- good/great salary
- prestigious career
- fun job
- travel

Disadvantages:

- massive costs (worry of having a debt of £70k)
- highly competitive
- unstable (due to oil etc)

Has anyone else been in a similar situation as myself? I simply can't decide which career to take. Can anyone offer any advice?

NB - please don't reply by saying 'if you're not sure you want to be a pilot etc you shouldn't be one' please.

[99jolegg]

I personally think it's a decision for you to make by thinking through each option as you are - nobody except you knows what you'd like doing best in the end.

When you are torn between two careers, you run the risk of being in one and desperately wishing you were in the other but that's life. Trick is to keep thinking and thinking and thinking until you are sure and don't choose an option until you are sure.

I'd suggest you research the finances for various FTOs. For example, CTC Wings scheme won't leave you in £70,000 worth of debt that you need to pay by yourself. The CTC Wings Scheme makes your other disadvantage slightly redundant - once you have your foot in the door, you are a step closer to securing a job in aviation. Of course, the scheme only makes it slightly redundant - "first in, first out" means you are likely to lose your job if an airline goes into administration, but if you are positioned in a large, stable airline then there isn't an enormous risk of losing your job.

I know you don't want to hear "if you don't know if you want to be a pilot, you shouldn't be one" but there is some truth in it because the path to becoming an airline pilot is loooong, arduous and hard work. You'll spend time away from home, spend a lot of time learning, both practically and theoretically, spend large amounts of money, have the risk of not getting an airline job and could well end up not actually making it into an airline. All of this means your will and determination to become an airline pilot will be tested to the limit - just look at the links Scroggs has put in the sticky at the top of the Wannbe's forum about "Pilot Pete's" story and G-SXTY's too. If your determination and will to become an airline pilot is torn between another career, you could well end up on an expensive mistake.

Whichever you choose, make sure you are 100% confident in it.

[AlphaMale]

DarkSoldier might be able to give you some advise?

See this thread; http://www.pprune.org/forums/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/334295-my-fatpl-training-masterplan.html

[Aeromar27]

In my opinion, if your vocation isn't strong enough so that u can even give it second thoughts... maybe this career is not for you.

Be advised, once u study law, u are a lawyer. On the other side, once u finish pilot training, there is still a lot of dust biting to do, and that can only be overcome with great vocation... a vocation that wouldn't even allow you to give it second thoughts.


Again, this is only my opinion and in no way i feel i have the right to tell you what to do.

[akindofmagic]

Can I ask why you're speculatively shelling out for the LPC? Why not apply directly to the firms, who will all pay for your LPC training (and I believe give you some sort of subsitence allowance too)?

With regard to your question: I graduated with a law degree two years ago, and pretty much immediately went out to NZ with CTC. I had wanted to be a pilot since I was about three years old.

I met so many people who had done law because they were expected to: i.e. their parents, teachers etc. had led them down that route, and who were going into training contracts for no other reason than it was the natural next step. I wouldn't presume to suggest that this might be your situation. However, I very nearly got sucked in, applying for vac schemes and so forth, and then looking at training contracts. I came across CTC purely by chance, applied and turned my attention away from the law. The simple fact was, I neither have now, nor did I have then, any interest whatsoever in law.

Many of the guys and gals on my course had, like me, very little interest in law (a common comment heard was "I'm going to have to pretend to have a passion for commercial at my interview tomorrow."), and were heading inexorably into a job they had little or no affinity for.

I would ask yourself: do you really want to be a lawyer? Do you really want to be a pilot? Either will be a long grind if you make the wrong choice. Think carefully.

magic

[greggx101]

At your age, you can do it a lot cheaper than 70K - whats the rush ? Take your time. As someone said on a previous thread, no point rushing into a industry thats on its heels at the moment.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

It is hardly surprising that we don't, as a general rule, allow lawyers to dine at The Middle Temple. They seem to live a rather drab and socially peculiar sort of existence after all. That opinion, of course, in general terms and without prejudice, you understand. Mind you, some of them make quite a lot of money but nothing that can compare or compete with a decent Silk, and have the fun of it too!
Move over to the quality side of the legal pavement. Come up to Chancery Lane and turn your attention to the Bar. Become a criminal lawyer and you will, once you have risen to the peak, make excellent friends, be well remunerated and have the opportunity to cavort with beautiful and intellingent women. Always provided in this last instance, of course, that you do not take on the Russian mafia as a client. In that case the women will not be possessed of the mental acumen to which you might have become accustomed had you encountered a working girl employed as airborne staff by an airline.
I bear in mind that that you might find such ideas repugnant and take in to consideration the fact that the economic situation in which we all find ourselves at the moment does not bode well for the luxury of indebted, unemployed freedom. Furthermore,I bear in mind your obvious youthfulness. My judgement therefore is as follows:
Five years of legal servitude which will afford you to reflect upon the error of your ways whilst accumulating sufficient remuneration, earned through good behaviour, so that upon release from said legal servitude, you will have adequate funds to provide for yourself and your loved ones through any future periods of unemployment. It is further recommended that while serving your time, you avail yourself of sufficient periods of leisure and material so that you will have at least learned the rudiments of your future profession upon release.
Good luck.
Take him down!;)

[magnificent_man]

El Supremo -

Strange to read your post as I seem to be going through a similar dilemna at the moment. I completed a degree last year in Politics and IR then went straight in to working in the London property industry (read Estate Agent...BIG MISTAKE!!!!). Luckily I have now left and have a place to do my Law conversion in September (deposit not yet paid), however I have always wanted to fly as a career. What to do as it's a tough one?!!

I really feel for you in regards to the 'if your not sure, is flying really for you?' front. There is a huge amount of negativity about flying as a career (much of it to be read on this forum) from a huge amount of people and in many respects they are right - as you are, not to simply leap in to the fray having not tried to exhaust as much as possible if this is really what you want to do. I know, I am going through the same process.

Having made one or two slightly half hearted attempts before University, one thing I do know is that when you commit, be it Law or the ATPL, you need to be commited 100%. It's not easy but you are absolutely right to question and then question again.

MM

PS. Obvious point but before you make a decision make sure you have a Class 1 Medical (Otherwise the decision will be made for you!)

[preduk]

Elsupermo,

I make this exact same decision next year, as I enter my final year of studying law but to be honest I've already made my decision.

Flying has always been my dream, I can't imagine doing anything else, it's the only interest that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

I don't fancy arguing over the terms of a contract for the rest of my life lol

[docash1983]

Hi ELSupremo,

My apologies for my very cynical reply, but I feel my 2 pence is valid, so hear goes…

I agree with akindofmagic. I am also in your position but have a different take on it. I only did a Law degree as a back up if things went south as a pilot for example loss of medical, and as a fail safe in case I cannot get the money first off for an integrated route, so that I may eventually have enough money to go modular and most certainly not because I want to be a lawyer.


However, be aware that firstly not many firms offer training contracts straight after your LPC, you are most likely to be stuck in a very, very low paid job in a legal firm before they will even consider giving you a training contract (most firms now wont touch you until 2010). Moreover, and I see this time and time again the money in most circumstances is not what people imagine, I believed this at one point and its only now knowing many who have entered into the profession that I am a little more sceptical. It takes years and years to get the kind of money most people think you will earn.

Moreover, getting into a city firm is very hard and particularly so if you didn’t go to the right uni’s or have the right classification. Moreover if your heart is not in it like me, in an interview they will sniff it out in an instant. Yes they do pay well but the amount of work they expect you to put in is outrageous (I know one guy a commercial lawyer who works at a prestigious firm, earns mega bucks but practically sleeps on his desk when he has a deal on). Don’t be so sure that the job is so secure either; you’ll be sacked in the blink of an eye if you’re not up to their expectations, particularly city firms.

I know this is a very negative post and it is in no way intended to knock your ability as a solicitor, however everything in the legal garden is not as rosy as it seems and it is a cut throat business in some respects. However, it is your choice at the end of the day and only you can be sure what the right career is, either way I wish you the best of luck.

Docash1983

[jaseinlondon]

Hi there El

I was here to find out about sponsorship schemes, but your post caught my eye.

I've actually just qualified as a corporate lawyer from one of the biggest in the world, A and O. Having experienced what it is like, I have decided to take the pilot route, giving up a £70k salary in the process.

There are so many sides to this. And I disagree that you must have only considered aviation as a career for it to be a viable choice. I know I had the same thoughts as you, and frankly, after evaluating ALL possible careers, being a pilot ticked the most boxes in terms of what my priorites were, and that is why I'm enrolling. I just wished I'd done it before going down the law route. However, it is a great deal and Idon't regret having done the training - you get law school paid for, you can go abroad for training (Tokyo for me for 6months, swanky appartment, free taxis, cleaner, cook, etc etc amazing) and you get paid 45k as a trainee. But...

I was disillusioned with a career in the corporate side of law because of the long hours doing what is really a paper pushing/project management role. You're essentially going to be on lots of conference calls, managing teams of bankers and doing lots of due diligence juggling dozens of deals at the same time. Its is dull, and the intellectual challenge at uni disappears but stressful because of the amount you must do at the same time and the hours you will spend doing it. I just couldn't motivate myself.

However, there are many many areas depending on the firm you apply to and if you went into litigation I think it would be more cerebral and the hours better. It's about planning your career in law to make it work. My heart just wasn't in it.

And despite this crunch, I know recruitment hasn't been cut back. In a high or low, there will always be a need for lawyers - high : M and A goes up, low : litigation increases etc. And generally it's rare for firms to make cuts on the scale of ibanks or, airlines.

I reckon you should try and get as much info as poss from those actually already in law and aviation. Go to RollOnFriday: news, views and gossip on City law firms (including what they pay). The latest legal news and salary information and everything else the slightly bored solicitor requires. (http://www.rollonfriday.co.uk) for the low down on the law side and make your mind up. However, if you do what I did, and give it a go and decide it's not for you it's not so bad either, I've got the cash now saved to pay for the training and I actually had fun training in Tokyo and other places and made a ton of friends. And learnt a lot and ticked another box knowing for sure it's not for me..

Good luck!

[dragonfly6]

Its a tough one. I have three lawyers and three pilots in the family including myself and i couldnt see any of them doing the others job. akindofmagic is right, they are both a long grind. I agree with jasoninlondon to an extent but you do sound keen on "giving it a bash". I would say in hindsight it may not really be the sort of career you give a bash. Your journey to the front seat of an airliner will be harder and more expensive than that into a lawyers office. I got into it purely out of chance without considering it properly at all. If i knew what i know now i would have thought alot harder. I would still have made the same choice though.

Maybe the attitude of jasoninllondon (and myself when i started out) is ironically beneficial - sod it - give it a go. if my attitude wasnt so blaze to the down sides im not sure how i would have dealt with the instability, never ending dissapointment, delays, expenses and uncertaintly that comes with landing an airline job. Id say you have to be either very philisophical or very keen.

[bonalste]

I've seen a few posts on here lately of a similar nature. They all seem to be almost asking for clarification that flying is the correct path. The way I see it, if you have to ask (and I know you didn't want anyone to say this) then it is not for you... YET. The fact is, you're torn between two possible routes in your life and, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, you shouldn't decide on either if you can help it until you are 100% certain in your mind what you want to do.

And the phrase 'in your mind' is important. We can all tell you what we would do or prescribe you the benefits that we perceive of one route over another, but they are all opnions. The only opinion that matters is your own. As I mentioned at the beginning, it feels like you're hoping for us to solidify in your mind that you should go one route or another, but you'll never get that here. You need to look into yourself to find that answer.

I guess that what I'm saying is, if you have to come on here and ask, you are not ready yet. You are certainly not ready to shell out £70,000. It's a lot of money and a lot of heart-ache if you decide that it's not for you. Likewise, if you choose not to be a pilot and go down the lawyer route, you could regret it for the rest of your life.

Take some space to think about it. Mull it over some with friends and family, by all means, but in the end the decision can't be anyone elses but your own. I don't think that putting it down to pro's and con's will work either. This is a huge step and it has more emotion involved in it than can be put down in a few bullet points. If you're meant to fly you'll know soon enough. Think about it and the answer will come to you. Just don't make the wrong decision now and regret it because that would be a tragedy. If you come to the conclusion that you don't know whether this or that is the right path, but you know you'll regret it if you don't try, I'd say you've found your answer.