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Mark 1
12th Jul 2008, 19:54
Carriage of mode A/C transponders is prohibited in the Amsterdam FIR.

That's a direct paste from the Netherlands AIP Gen 1.5 para 4

There doesn't seem to be much scope for interpretation.

Does anyone know how this is being interpreted in practice?

I know about the 1200'/class g limit without mode s, but this seems a bit extreme.

BackPacker
12th Jul 2008, 21:22
It sounds like you are surprised. Why? This has been long in coming, and it's finally there.

Well, not entirely.

In the Netherlands, there is now 100% Mode S radar coverage, meaning that all radar stations are able to interrogate mode S transponders and present their readout to the operator. This works great: Just a few weeks ago I got a transit through the Schiphol CTR while on a 7000 squawk. They could see my callsign so why bother with a discrete squawk? ATC operators, if time permits, are also verifying that whatever is on your flightplan, callsign+equipment, matches with your actual readout and will give you a (rather gentle) reminder if something is wrong.

But contrary to what's in GEN 1.5, mode S is only required for VFR traffic when flying in a TMZ. These TMZs are a blanket across the Netherlands, FL65 and up, and in some cases 1200' and up. In 2009 this blanket will drop to FL45 and in 2010 it will be a blanket requirement to have mode S for anything that flies above 1200'. The details are in AIC A 07/08, effective 22 MAY 2008. These TMZs are also listed at the end of ENR 2.2 (para 4). It looks like GEN 1.5 needs an additional line saying that VFR traffic outside the designated TMZs is not required to have a mode S transponder. I don't know why that's not in there.

So, it is still possible to fly with just an A/C transponder in the Netherlands, but your flight planning will become more and more complicated.

22/04
12th Jul 2008, 22:40
How are they handling gliders? Here in the UK we don't beleive we can comply with Mode S requirements, certianly not for vintage types and are currently the subject of a consultation.

Flyin'Dutch'
13th Jul 2008, 06:30
How are they handling gliders? Here in the UK we don't beleive we can comply with Mode S requirements, certianly not for vintage types and are currently the subject of a consultation.

You either invest in a Mode S transponder or will be restricted to fly in the transponder free zones which are established around some glider sites.

Yup that will cost money and some effort but is technically all doable and no big deal.

bookworm
13th Jul 2008, 18:14
Carriage of mode A/C transponders is prohibited in the Amsterdam FIR.

It's a daft way of phrasing it. Every Mode S transponder I've seen is also capable of responding to Mode A and Mode C interrogation. There isn't a switch to suppress that. Presumably they mean that carriage of transponders capable of responding only to mode A/C are prohibited.

Mark 1
13th Jul 2008, 18:20
Backpacker,
Thanks for the reply. But as the AIC and Gen 1.5 both state the 1200' class G restriction for non-Mode s traffic, whereabouts does the 2009 exemption get stated?

My interpretation is that I have to be at the FIR boundary at 1200' or less with the transponder in SBY or spend £2500 getting Mode S installed. Everywhere else en-route they make life a lot easier (Germany, Denmark, Sweden, UK).

Edited to say thet I've just had a reply from the IVW with some clarification:

AIP GEN will be clarified: not the carriage, but the use of Mode A/C transponder is prohibited in Amsterdam FIR. So it is allowed to fly without a Mode S transponder or with a non active Mode A/C in class G airspace below 1200 ft AMSL.
Above the NSAA a Mode S transponder is required also below 1200 ft AMSL.


So it looks like the long way round and down low.