View Full Version : How much did you earn this fin year?


Its the Pleats
10th Jul 2008, 05:09
Righto, here it is. Hopefully somebody will find this interesting! Hours out of the logbook and pay from the group certificate. No made up numbers heard from somebody else’s mate etc.

Jetstar A320 FO Melbourne based
Pay: 104k
Tax: 30.1k
Hours: 835 (Jul 07-Jun08)
6 weeks leave taken – plus maybe 3 sick days
7 nights not in own bed – not including back-of-the-clock

Now I’m sure somebody will be kind enough to tell everybody how much money they think I’m paying per month off my endorsement, what the cost of living in Melbourne is blah blah blah. Apparently this will be equal to stacking shelves at Coles – we’ve heard it all before. Can we please not even reply to such posts in the hope that this thread stays on topic?

I’m keen to hear similar figures from others especially Virgin FOs. Capt/FO/SO figures from all the carriers plus regional Capt/FO would be interesting too.

Cheers



Skystar320
10th Jul 2008, 05:12
I got mine via paperpushing making things work

AUD$148,000 + 5% retain bonus

+ royalities / commission of US$214,000

Ultralights
10th Jul 2008, 05:25
just a Lowly AME, only working 4 days a week, unfortunately i have 3 day weekends every weekend. very sad..... and grossed $76K

Syd eng
10th Jul 2008, 05:38
Level 4 QF LAME
Gross 66K + Car = 83K
Tax 16K

Not much OT, maybe 4 shifts.

No where near the average of 130K given by DICKson

Metro man
10th Jul 2008, 05:55
A320 F/O Asian base.
Gross AU$108 500
Tax AU$ 7 500

Knowing that the ATO aren't wasting my money on dole bludgers and fat cats -

ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS :)

GFPT
10th Jul 2008, 06:07
Sales Manager - Prestige Car Dealership

$139,200 plus company car and phone :ok:

Less $46,300 in Tax :eek:

Less $22,000 spent on flying training this Year :ouch:


(Probably$32 K next year thanks to Mr KRudd's Luxury Car Tax Increase) :ugh:

Wizofoz
10th Jul 2008, 06:17
Pleats-

105K gross as an Ansett 767 Fo.....17 years ago!!!

Now- Around 160K tax free plus house,utilities, medical, education and transport. Equivelent to 300K plus in comparative terms.

Mate, what you're getting is better than a shelf-stacker. It's just nothing like what a pilot flying an Airline jet should be earning.

Jet_A_Knight
10th Jul 2008, 08:04
Combined income from my main job as an International Playboy & Underwater Welder = $368,255.54

Appearances on the Midget Tossing Circuit = $155,478.25

Endorsement deals = $244,987.52

Nil tax as I am domiciled in the Campione d'Italia (google it)

Pin Head
10th Jul 2008, 08:12
wizofoz - who do you work for?

Wizofoz
10th Jul 2008, 08:34
Sorry I didn't get back to you faster, Pin, had to chase a camel out of the yard:}

EK, based Dubai.

PyroTek
10th Jul 2008, 14:54
$2600,
$50/week pocket money:p (however, goes towards bus tickets, food etc.)
Oh, possibly small extras like lighting jobs here and there... ($~200)

Yup, real rich.
However! I AM looking for a job.. the old catch 22 "you need a job to get a job".. yay?:uhoh:

Pyro:ok:

aulglarse
10th Jul 2008, 15:15
Jetstar A320 Line Captain: $ 195 853.

920 hrs including 6 weeks holidays & day-off callouts.

Equates to 70k in tax.:{

oz in dxb
10th Jul 2008, 15:30
Capt B777 with EK:
150 000AUD nett flying about 640 hours.

tinpis
10th Jul 2008, 20:39
Location: sh!# hole

True.....:ok:

Jabawocky
10th Jul 2008, 20:56
Quote:
Location: sh!# hole
True.....:ok:

Even Darwhine Trumps it ehh Tin?:ok:

tinpis
10th Jul 2008, 21:43
Even Queensland and Perth Jaba

Money?...not me but me mates 18 year old kid started work in pooter support job here on $50k per year. No HSC, nuthin.

capt.cynical
10th Jul 2008, 21:53
$ 55k net--wot's tax :E
Employer SMSF :)

Next Year ?? :(:ouch::confused::ugh:

wb727d
10th Jul 2008, 22:25
$130,000 :) / 42,000 tax :mad:
melb base , just over 300 hrs for the year had 6 weeks leave:ok:
over all great for GA.

KRUSTY 34
10th Jul 2008, 22:44
Wizofoz.

Your post #7 pretty well says it all. And before anyone says anything, reasonable wages was not the reason Ansett is no longer with us.

Green gorilla
10th Jul 2008, 23:19
Four days on four days off 270hrs 120500 paid 35400 tax. Aerorescue.

BN_centre
10th Jul 2008, 23:34
$80700 - ATC 2 years out of the college.

Some overtime, 72 hour fortnight.

Not working any night shifts (yet) but with our current structure earning the same as someone on my band that does.

MAX
11th Jul 2008, 01:30
10 inches.

:}

MAX:cool:

midsection
11th Jul 2008, 01:36
2002. AN CC. $64,500.00.
2008. Recruitment. $107,000 + car, laptop, phone and visa card. 8.0 hour days etc etc.
Both jobs great.:D:)

Transition Layer
11th Jul 2008, 06:19
Well one thing's quite clear from this thread...Jetstar F/O pay sux!!! :yuk:

Enema Bandit's Dad
11th Jul 2008, 07:16
Mate, you should see Qantaslink :yuk::yuk:!

Omega471
11th Jul 2008, 07:33
$662 Gross, $108 Tax - 58hrs.


Over 10 years ago I completed a C210 endorsement, a bare CPL and headed up north ten foot tall and bullet proof. Wow, C210 I could handle that. My instructor at the time told me I should be happy checking fences in a 152. Man I thought he was arrogant.

12 years, happily married, 2 great kids, 1st flying group certificate.

Most satisfying $662 I ever earned!!

Yusef Danet
11th Jul 2008, 08:42
188.8k gross
66.6k tax
plus 15.9k non taxable allowances

chickendrummer
11th Jul 2008, 08:58
Good on ya Transition Layer. Stay positive!

cjam
11th Jul 2008, 09:57
Does anyone know how much a CASA pilot earns with skytraders? They have an add on the AFAP website this week, would certainly be interesting!

TWOTBAGS
11th Jul 2008, 10:06
35 on / 31 off :ok:
A$ 95K no tax :ok:
110 hrs in last 365 :}
FO Private Jet operation :E

great lifestlye, best job i have ever had :}

armslides&crossdress
11th Jul 2008, 13:59
Overseas living well and very cheap

working 700 ish...ok

Pain each pay day when exchanging to strong Aussie dollar.. ouch

Little difference to VB 737 Capt nett- however left seat of heavy

= scratching head a lot :confused:

ZK-NSJ
11th Jul 2008, 14:26
1st class sheetie in perth, 102k + approx 8k petrol/travel allowances

approx 65-75 hours per week

Mick.B
11th Jul 2008, 23:35
Construction Industry
$280000 after overheads
Tax. Too Much
No Staying away
8 weeks leave :ok:

Sorry guys couldnt help it. You guys flying for a living deserve more. :ugh:

employes perspective
11th Jul 2008, 23:51
former Qantas Lame on $65k PA,now a bottleshop owner on $231,000 for last year,this year looking like it will be $281,000 + new V8 ute + fuel + grog + cigz..:}:}:}:}

Sarcs
12th Jul 2008, 02:48
131.5k gross, 42k tax. Employer same as Green gorilla.

How times have changed! My base pay has gone up 55k in less than 2yrs with the one company, whereas with my previous employer you were lucky to match CPI.:ok:

Cheers and beers

Sarcs

PS Not to mention you worked at least 3 times as hard and you had to live in a s**thole.

Chadzat
12th Jul 2008, 03:18
From the other end of the ramp-

$33173 Gross. 610hrs
As many days off as i liked- but didn't get paid for them!

Don't know how much tax I have paid as I am still waiting on group certificates! Another perk of GA!

Started the fin year flying C210's, finished it flying C404's.

Gnadenburg
12th Jul 2008, 04:14
340,000 AUD tax around 60,000. 700hours.

Payrise this year of 25-30%.

clear to land
12th Jul 2008, 04:40
EK 777 F/O about $120k on current exchange rate, nil tax, 650 hrs, average 14 days off/mnth. Paying 3.5% interest on Aussie mortgage. Accom etc included.

RodLoad
12th Jul 2008, 06:22
B767 F/O Sydney Base
$160,000

blackhander
12th Jul 2008, 06:30
Base rate 58k
Gross 102k
Who says QF LAMEs do too much OT?

Binoculars
12th Jul 2008, 12:16
Remember the days when your salary was private information? When those who couldn't wait to tell you how much they earned were quickly assigned their own spot at the party by themselves? I think it used to be called class.

But the Greed decade followed by the My 4WD is bigger than yours decade has certainly superseded such notions, as the race to post on this thread indicates. All rather sad, really.

Ixixly
12th Jul 2008, 13:36
Actually, i quite like it. As someone who is looking for his first job in Aviation in the next few months its interesting to see what those out there in the real world are actually earning... i don't really see it as a "Mine is bigger than yours" type competition.

Binoculars
12th Jul 2008, 14:00
I VERY much doubt that any of the previous posters would disagree with you. Juicy rationalisations are very much a part of our makeup when under the pump. If you believe it, that's all that counts.

clear to land
12th Jul 2008, 14:52
Bino's, although no doubt your rationalisation has/does apply to certain people, I believe that the majority here would view this as an 'information' post. From my perspective as an expat, it was information like this that led me to leave the 'dream ' job of flying a jet based in Brisbane, to head to the sandy shores so that I may actually get ahead financially, rather than just assisting my CEO in his incessant quest for ridiculous wealth. In these days of AWA's and individual contracts salary information is not as readily accessible as some may think. I have a nephew who is working underground at the moment, who wants to be a pilot. I shall be referring him to this post so that he has an idea of what to expect from a variety of positions, not just mine. Hope you are enjoying retirement away from ASA. :ok:

RodLoad
12th Jul 2008, 14:53
Binoculars I couldn't disagree more. The more open information there is out there about different airlines pay and conditions the more readily we can negotiate better pay and conditions for all within the industry.

Binoculars
12th Jul 2008, 15:15
Of course you disagree. It would be silly not to attempt to rationalise your position.

That self serving position would be much more defensible if every poster announced their position, qualifications and employer instead of " a million dollars, nya nya na nyahh nyahh."

It's a generational thing you see.

HF3000
12th Jul 2008, 19:57
Financial advice I received from my grandparents as a child: "In my day one didn't borrow money to buy a house, one saved one's pennies for a year or so and paid cash for a house."

How times have changed. These days youngsters will be lucky if they can even save a deposit, then spend 25 years paying off a mortgage. Salary levels have become far more important these days just to achieve the basic living essential of a roof over your head to raise a family.

Society has done this to us, we are powerless now but to respond by seeking a better salary. A basic house in a capital city now costs at least 10 times the average annual take-home pay. And salaries of pilots are losing ground in comparison to the average wage.

Pilots need to protect their industry not because they seek to be prima donnas but just to survive and afford to raise a family in an increasingly difficult economic and social environment.

Pilots can't protect their industry unless they have a good understanding of what they should reasonably expect to earn, and they can only gain this understanding by talking to each other.

Good thread.

B767 F/O in Aust. $160K gross.

Metro Boy
12th Jul 2008, 21:57
Anyone from National Jet?

Boomerang
12th Jul 2008, 22:39
A320 FO UK 111,000 Net (first year), 650 hours (inc. overtime), 7 weeks off, plus 12-15 off per month.

boofta
13th Jul 2008, 01:16
Binos,

I have recently gone for a couple of jobs in aviation. without any
idea of ACTUAL pay rates.
The wheels who interview you are generally on a bonus system, or
some form of budget control of their department.
This means the less you accept, the more they earn!

Pprune is the greatest weapon pilots ever had to get real timely
information on industry standard renumeration. Its not about
being tacky or it being low class to mention comparitive pay.
Its about the pilots having some decent data on whats being paid.
Otherwise only the low class managers have this information.

Track Coastal
13th Jul 2008, 03:55
Interesting thread, particularly the range of incomes for Jet types depending on who you are willing to work for and where you want to live. I'll be directing a few wannabees to this thread.

Gnadenburg, you wrote...

340,000 AUD tax around 60,000. 700hours.

Payrise this year of 25-30%.

Tax on 340K for an Aussie resident is now 130K (132.6K in 07/08). Gnadenburg, care to share info on where you are domiciled (to pay such low tax) AND which organisation/airline?

For anyone that can't google it...ATC pay is here (: Agreements AG845691 Airservices Australia Certified Agreement 2005-2008 (Air Traffic Control and (http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Search/View.ASP?docid=276791)) pay scales are at the bottom on the second last page. A colleague just picked up a gig in the UAE for $200K AUD, no tax, find own accom (maybe a third in housing and utilities leaving around $120KAUD for beer)

Gnadenburg
13th Jul 2008, 08:09
Gnadenburg, care to share info on where you are domiciled

Not really. Supply and demand. The reason for the recent big pay rise is nobody came this year. :}

Non-resident status.

Quokka
13th Jul 2008, 08:42
These days youngsters will be lucky if they can even save a deposit, then spend 25 years paying off a mortgage.

Anyone who was taught Compound Interest at school using a mortgage as the example was sold a dummy... trained to believe that having a mortgage... and therefore debt... is a good thing.

How many teachers add to the Compound Interest lesson, a mention of the definition of Good Debt and Bad Debt... and a discussion of the difference between them.

Salary levels have become far more important these days just to achieve the basic living essential of a roof over your head to raise a family.

Oh so true... one will never get wealthy from earning a salary... but how many people cling that very idea.

Non-resident status.

Worth gold. :ok:

Poita
13th Jul 2008, 13:29
Anyone know the pay and hours of the Toll 737 pilots?

ops_are_normal
13th Jul 2008, 16:08
First full 12 months in GA, flying 210's and 310's did approx 450hrs
Gross = $16,000 :(

Great times had though! :ok:

aulglarse
13th Jul 2008, 16:19
Very well put Owen!

It's taken people many years in this volatile industry to get where they are today. To disclose how much they earn is what this thread is about and not how far one can piss!:=

FO Cokebottle
13th Jul 2008, 16:27
Thought it would be more appropriate to define your salary as "how much you kept"

BTW...Non-resident :ok:

HF3000
13th Jul 2008, 17:59
True, getting ahead is not about how much you earn, but the difference between how much you earn and how much you spend.

Live modestly, pay off your mortgage quickly, retire early and enjoy life.

Propstop
13th Jul 2008, 22:30
LAME 6 weeks on/off overseas $120.000, non resident.

lordofthewings
14th Jul 2008, 00:03
LAME tours, equivalent $130,000aus, 6 wks leave, about 22 hrs/wk..

Metro man
14th Jul 2008, 01:12
From the figures given so far it seems those non resident in Australia and working abroad are far better off financially. Some of the amounts of tax paid are shocking, in return for very little benefit.

For most people on a good income it is not worth being in the "system" in Australia. If I had paid $70 000 tax on a $190 000 income I would expect a final salary based CPI linked pension, unemployment benefits based on a high % of my salary, free first class medical and dental care with no waiting list, free private school and university for my children and a high standard of law and order in return.

The present system is based on the politicians and bureaucrats looking after themselves first, and dishing out generous welfare payments to the unemployed and low income earners to keep voting for them. Those who work hard and earn a good income are sucked dry to support this.

One of the best systems in the world if you are unemployed and unskilled with four children, or are in the public service - a guarantee for your working life and retirement.

Stay abroad, get rich, return when you retire and need the medical benefits. :E

Gnadenburg
14th Jul 2008, 02:07
There are plenty of folks abroad whose big pays are gobbled up by lifestyle and high inflation.

I always convert back to AUD. Never lose the value of your home currency. Forces you to competitively look at your lifestyle choices- and options are a plenty.


First Officer

Ansett

A320

Not quite 900 hrs

Six weeks leave plus 12 to 18 days off per month.

125K not including DTA or superannuation.


This was seven years ago! What have you blokes done to the industry? Although QF drivers seem to be doing OK.

Quokka
14th Jul 2008, 03:42
ATC, overseas, equivalent of AUD$116,880.50 (based on todays exchange rate), no tax, Non-Resident, 16 weeks leave pa.

Free (almost... $1.50 per consult) basic medical, $300 pa. private health insurance (for emergency medical care at private hospital)... still not as good as the health care in Oz.

No pension, you have save and invest for it yourself... but with no CGT, if you're a good punter then the reward is very comfortable retirement... :ok: ... if you stuff it up then... :{

flyer_18-737
14th Jul 2008, 05:48
Whoa NO TAX!!

redsnail
14th Jul 2008, 10:55
Gross €98,060, net €60,692 After tax, national insurance, pension. Private health care included.
Gross $161,911 net $100.212

Rostered to fly/work 200 days a year. After leave, 178 days a year. Do about 400 hours a year.

Two_dogs
14th Jul 2008, 13:33
Not enough!!

always inverted
14th Jul 2008, 22:39
Makes for quite intereting reading...
I wonder why no unn zudd regional crews have posted...No I dont, you others would not believe the crapy pay over here.

bushy
15th Jul 2008, 01:02
Money does not make you happy. I have fifty million now and I am no happier than I was two years ago, when I only had forty eight million.
Arnold Schwarzeger

ContactMeNow
15th Jul 2008, 02:08
Grossed $45k (yet to do tax, but will get most back :E)

I lived remote for most of it, so that will help with getting tax back. Had around 10 weeks off (4 paid), flew back home a few times and went travelling abroad for 8 of those weeks....

750 approx in the logbook...

Loved every min of it!

CMN :ok:

Skystar320
15th Jul 2008, 02:25
try putting US$500k through your tax return and see how much tax you pay. It hurts like hell!

Horatio Leafblower
15th Jul 2008, 04:17
True, getting ahead is not about how much you earn, but the difference between how much you earn and how much you spend.

Live modestly, pay off your mortgage quickly, retire early and enjoy life.

F:mad:ck that

My Dad tried that and died at 59 :suspect:

flysaucer1200
15th Jul 2008, 05:23
For me, airline oriented but non flying position at this time.

$12 per hour, 38 hours per week.
Gross- $456 week ( 23,712 Yearly )
Net- $369.36 Week ( 19206.72 Yearly )……All Kiwi dollar,

Converted to Aussie dollar using- http://www.xe.com/ucc/ (http://www.xe.com/ucc/)=
$ 290.189 AUD per week( $15089.36 yearly )

And that is the standard wages in NZ, but, I execute subsequent endeavors to replenish my depleting or holy drum of finances; cash only.

In New Zealand, My friend is on the Eagle Air Beech 1900, based in a small north island town where living costs are minimal but lifestyle is rare-

First Officer
$42, 000 Gross yearly
$51.000 Gross yearly After allowances

He quoted 600 to 700 yearly flying
$33,020 Net ( After Tax and Student loan repayments ) ( not sure about Medical etc )

That equated to Aussie dollar
NZ $33, 020 = $25,941.87 AUD yearly net

FullySickBro
15th Jul 2008, 05:51
Flysaucer1200,

I think since there 400,000 kiwis living in Oz it would be more relevant to convert their current oz salaries into kiwi ones!!

Exchange rates aside, if 19 passenger seats can gross you $42k a year how does 300 odd pax seats only gross you $50k a year as a 'Cruise F/O'? :E

redsnail
15th Jul 2008, 09:35
Forgot to add the allowances, tax free.

€10,000 per annum
$16,407.5

empacher48
15th Jul 2008, 09:45
NZD$42000 for the last year + about $1000 allowances.. Did 265 hours flying.

Not in a regional carrier. Just got a cost of living increase which will show in the next financial year.

Transition Layer
16th Jul 2008, 12:40
B744 S/O with a fairly well known Australian Airline ;)

$125 000 gross +

$18500 tax-free allowances

but...$39500 tax!!! ouch :ugh:

770hrs "stick"
approx. 6 weeks annual leave

Tankengine
16th Jul 2008, 13:12
Sal Sacrifice max into super,
$88k tax.
Guess which A330 airline.:E

KRUSTY 34
16th Jul 2008, 22:58
Quote:

"Exchange rates aside, if 19 passenger seats can gross you $42k a year how does 300 odd pax seats only gross you $50k a year as a 'Cruise F/O'? :E"

And there's the rub Bro'.

Love the way an Ejet gig attracts 80% less than the 737. But go the other way (and by a large margin), and what do you get? Mind you, this sort of "accounting" is what management bonuses are built on.

titan uranus
17th Jul 2008, 00:09
Having done the expat thing, and now back...
For those supporting the notion of freedom of salary information on this thread, so they may make "informed work choices".. just remember one thing.
It's not all about money. You get what you pay for tax wise (generally).
In Hong Kong, you get 16% worth. You will see:

* 80 year old women pushing carts loaded with cardboard up hills on 30 deg sweltering days.
* Parks for your kiddies with rubber matting instead of grass, and shared by a cast of thousands
* Polluted beaches, with water you wouldn't WANT to be rescued from
* Air you shudder to breath
* Dangerous roads, and horrendous traffic
* Noise, everywhere, and all the time (and very little laws to prevent it), jack hammering apartment reno's come to mind...
* Public schooling not really an option for the english speaking expat (language/child isolation issues)
* Despite your larger than home salary, you are essentially just holding it in trust for the locals. Anything requiring "fun tickets", be prepared to shed them at a rapid rate.

My point, take a closer look at what you're getting into, not just the coin.

Green gorilla
17th Jul 2008, 00:18
Well said my time in Aus is worth the lower income to be with my family and extended family.

chimbu warrior
17th Jul 2008, 00:38
Hmmm....was feeling seriously underpaid (about A$125k) as Capt on medium jet in exotic location (with various exotic diseases available for the more adventurous), but have to agree totally with titan uranus.

My family get to remain in Australia and have access to a good range of services, plus get to see me fairly frequently (dog only bites me occasionally), my transport, accommodation and basically all meals in aforementioned exotic location are provided, and my flying is fairly enjoyable.

More money would be nice, but isn't everything. One advantage I do have is that I work with some of the nicest people I've ever met (management excluded).

Howard Hughes
17th Jul 2008, 01:08
Turboprop below 5700 KG.

$55,000
+$16,000 (tax exempt)
----------
= $71,000
- $12,000 (income tax paid)

$59,000 net plus about $2000 in allowances.

Next financial year should yield an extra $20,000 due to EBA and out of EBA pay rises!

Less than 500 hours per year, 7-8 day fortnight, 6 weeks annual leave.:eek:

Butr I do get to live in Oz!:ok:

Track Direct
17th Jul 2008, 05:17
Titan Uranus,

Have to agree, no amount of coin can adequately compensate you for the things you mention o/s.
I know people who are "over it" and keen to move home to Oz, for lifestyle alone.:eek:
Quality time with family & friends in the best country on earth, priceless.:ok:

Aussie
17th Jul 2008, 08:04
good post Zoolander.

Jet_A_Knight
17th Jul 2008, 08:19
Redsnail - does that get you a good lifestyle in the UK??

redsnail
17th Jul 2008, 09:08
Jet A,

Ave wage here is £22K so it does. Checkboard's a captain with easyJet so he's on similar money (many more hours though. :E )

We have a nice house (not heavily mortgaged), nice late model merc, 3 motorbikes (2 Ducatis and a Triumph) in the garage. There's a nice lake nearby that we sail board on and the roads aren't bad for the bikes. A couple of good restaurants nearby and our village has 8 pubs. :ok:

We could live in a more picturesque area (eg Lakes district, Cotswolds or Cornwall) but the commute would be a bitch.

We have access to an airport (Luton...) and we can head to Europe for as little as £25. We view it as a 20 year working holiday with options to live in France or Portugal later on.

We intend to retire back in Australia though.

Binoculars
17th Jul 2008, 12:46
Taking advantage of Australia's benefits after paying tax for twenty years overseas perhaps?

redsnail
17th Jul 2008, 12:54
Well, I still have my super in Australia and I did pay tax in Australia for over 18 years too. I won't be eligible for the full pension in the UK as I won't have worked here (UK) for 25 years.

It's legal.

Binoculars
17th Jul 2008, 13:03
That's OK, Reddo. You'll probably earn as much in the next three years as you did in Australia in 18 years, but we'll take care of you in your dotage. Unless of course all the talk radio conspiracists currently venting their usual bile on the Aussie Election Thread are right in that we will have been consigned to financial oblivion a la Whitlam in the next three years, in which case we'll all be rooned.

Yours faithfully,
Hanrahan

Metro man
17th Jul 2008, 13:33
It's not all about money. You get what you pay for tax wise (generally).

In Australia you can be paying around 35% of your salary in tax in order to support a system benefitting politicians, bureaucrats and the welfare recipients.

For a third of your salary you get:

Health system, which although you have paid for it, as a high income earner you must pay extra to use it (Medicare levy). Or pay even more for private health insurance. Of course if you live off the dole and contribute nothing to it, it's all free.

Education system producing ill disciplined louts, barely able to read and write, but who know all the state benefits they are "entitled" to, and their rights when arrested. Drugs readily available in schools. Of course you could pay extra for private schooling.

Welfare system breeding dependency, families in which two or three GENERATIONS have never worked. People on the dole having a higher standard of living than some of the tax payers supporting them.

Public transport, parks, many areas of cities unsafe at night due to drug addicts and teenage gangs. You pay for their lawyers if the police bother to prosecute. You pay for motel style prisons if the courts give more than a slap on the wrist (rarely)

Political correctness - shame on us straight, white, employed, law abiding males.

Cut out the waste, sort out the drug problem, deal with the anti social behaviour and bring the tax rates down to a sensible level (10-15%). That would bring alot of people back.:rolleyes:

redsnail
17th Jul 2008, 13:44
Oh don't worry Binos. I haven't been a burden on Australia for a few years and won't be for probably another 20.
I'll just bring my money that I've earnt OS and spend it in Australia.

Any way, what do you care?

Binoculars
17th Jul 2008, 13:44
MetroMan, how does it feel to be a living cliche? A certifiably representative member of a narrow "philosophical" clique? You seem to be proud of it, and you've never once expressed any humanitarian view contrasting your own me me me beliefs to any other opinions.

I respect your right to think your own financial well being is the ultimate criterion for your views, but do you not occasionally suspect that every post you have ever made here says the same thing? Do you have anything interesting to say about human nature except that self interest is paramount?

Binoculars
17th Jul 2008, 13:54
What do I care, Reddo? I can only repeat for about the fortieth time on these pages that I care deeply about where Australian taxpayers money goes.

One of my pet hates is middle class welfare. I believe welfare is for those who can't provide for themselves for whatever reason, but that doesn't include bludgers or those who think the state owes them a reason.

I am also a firm believer in means testing of welfare, and and equally firm disbeliever in the nonsensical belief that paying taxes all your life automatically entitles you to a taxpayer funder pension if you are capable of taking care of yourself.

In short, I care about Australia as opposed to my own needs. If you come back to Australia as self funded retirees you will be welcome. If you come back expecting our increasingly bloated welfare system to look after you, you have no sympathy from me.

BeerMan
17th Jul 2008, 23:00
Work as an FO for a regional SAAB operator, based in Sydney. Some rounded annual numbers:

Gross ~ $41,000
Taxable Allowance ~ $9,000
Tax ~$10,000
--------
Net ~$40,000
Tax Free Allow ~ $10,500

Take Home ~$50,500


2-3 rostered overnights per week. Worked 23 RDOs which pushed the taxable allowance up almost $6,000. So not working those RDOs would probably decrease the take home pay by around $4-4.5K.

Great flying and great people though!

BeerMan
17th Jul 2008, 23:02
And pushing 900 hours logged over a year having taken a few weeks leave.

titan uranus
18th Jul 2008, 00:01
Bino's...ditto regarding Metro Man's stock standard take on the Aussie condition...

We are 20 million, living on a land mass the size of the US.
The Chongqing City municipality in China alone has around 30 million.
We expect in Australia to live the "Life of Reilly"...and compared with the parts of the world I've lived and worked, we generally do. The down side is, it's bloody expensive.
And btw, our aviation sector is tiny:rolleyes:

Metro Man, you think our tax rate is expensive? Try somewhere like Finland:ugh:
You think politicians here are corrupt? Try somewhere like China (or in fact...anywhere for that matter...take a glance at the US Presidential election system!):{

You can mope about blaming all and sundry just as much as you like regarding paying tax, but if its your sole motivation in life to live where tax is cheap, just don't expect a lot in return. And by the way, you seriously have your head in the clouds if you think you'll see a tax rate 10-15% here.

There is seriously more to life fellas, analyse the unique aspects Aus has to offer, before you leap for the perception of greener pastures.
The added dilemma with this aviation game of course is once you're gone, and tied to a seniority list elsewhere, its very hard to come back, even if there is an opportunity available. It's not like you're working for Pepsi on a 2 year expatriate secondment!

Metro man
18th Jul 2008, 00:03
Binos

If I'm paying for the system I expect it to work for me. I compare things in Australia at the moment to a journey on a aircraft:

Ticket agent (ATO) charges me a hefty fee. For this I think I should get first class, but on boarding I find the front end full of politicians drinking champagne and eating lobster at my expense.

Moving down to business class I find it full of single mothers, refugees and dole bludgers streatched out drinking wine and eating steak, again at my expense.

Back in economy we are crammed in ten abreast with only two flight attendents looking after us and told we must pay for food and drinks. Everyone is complaining about how much they have paid and the poor service they are getting in return.

Next time the plane lands I get off and try another airline:

Ticket agent (tax office) charges me a much lower fare. Happy with this I get on board and assuming I've paid an economy fare, head for that cabin. Flight attendent checks my boarding pass and directs me to business class. Everyone around me is happy at the value for money. Check the economy cabin, people sitting ten abreast, simple meal, pay for drinks, two flight attendents.

Ask one of our flight attendents how the company keeps the fares down. She explains that they don't waste money and look after the high yield passengers first, but still provide a basic service to the low yield ones.

Through the cabin notice the politicians in first class, raise my glass to them for doing a good job. ;)

Like Redsnail I'll consider retirement in Australia, and it will hopefully be at a higher standard than I would get if I had worked there all my life.

Jet_A_Knight
18th Jul 2008, 00:36
Thanks for that Reddo.

Teal
18th Jul 2008, 00:37
....you think our tax rate is expensive? Try somewhere like Finland.Or even worse....France, Netherlands, Belgium, and Sweden. If you're in Honkers you're laughing (and/or coughing....:}). See the 2008 Forbes Tax Misery Index below:

http://images.forbes.com/media/2008/03/27/chart1_590.jpg

Metro man
18th Jul 2008, 01:28
titan uranus

As you say we are 20 million, therefore do we really need seperate governments for each state and territory ? How much does this vast duplication waste ? The United Kingdom, with a population three times that of Australia manages with one driver and vehicle licensing authority, how many do we have ? No need to change licences and number plates when you move to a different area over there. Also the road rules are the same. Surely this is cheaper and easier. Even the railway tracks are the same size. :E

Binos idea about means tested welfare is a good one but would never work, political parties are too dependent on votes from those on welfare now who would lose it under means testing.

I don't think Aussie politicians are much better or worse than others in the developed world, but a smaller, better paid and more competent government would be better for us all in the long run.

Aussie tax rates are ridiculous, just because they are not he worlds highest doesn't make them any better. With our small population and vast natural resources there is no justification for current levels.

Just been watching the Australia Network on tv, Paul Clitheroe was advertising his investment company "IPAC". He said "moving to Hong Kong or Singapore is one of the best financial decisions you could ever make."

See you all in about 25 years.;)

tio540
18th Jul 2008, 04:00
Just been watching the Australia Network on tv, Paul Clitheroe was advertising his investment company "IPAC". He said "moving to Hong Kong or Singapore is one of the best financial decisions you could ever make."



Funny that, he lives in Aus.

Metro man
18th Jul 2008, 06:19
Funny that, he lives in Aus

But being a financial wizz I bet he knows and uses all the loop holes to keep his own tax bill down. The sort of things most people wouldn't know about or have access to.

Wyle E Coyote
18th Jul 2008, 16:05
Why do people think the Government can spend their own money better than they can? Tax me less and let me choose where i spend it.

And there's a simple solution to the welfare system, No job - No vote (That'll wipe out about 60% of the left-wing voters;)). You get to participate in the democracy when you contribute to it.

cudza101
18th Jul 2008, 16:44
Why do people think the Government can spend their own money better than they can? Tax me less and let me choose where i spend it.This argument may work to some degree but not all of society's problems can be solved through market mechanisms. Invariably people get left behind.

Some European economies take a more paternalistic approach to taxation but a brief look at the living standards in these countries might suggest that this is a good thing. If you're not concerned about people getting left behind you should make that clear instead of hiding behind the guise of 'choice' ;)

EngineOut
18th Jul 2008, 16:48
S/O HKG based,

HKD$870,000, including housing allowance, (which you can buy your own place with), but excluding other allowances. Tax is $44,000HKD.

On todays un-naturally high exchange rate (7.5:1) that's AUD$116,000, with tax of AUD$5,800.

BUT, a more normal/realistic 6:1 exchange rate it is AUD$145,000, with tax AUD$7,300

After 2 years of service, still as an S/O, package is $1,300,000HKD, with tax of around HKD$54,000. I'll let you do the maths to AUD.(The jump is because housing allowance doubles to around HKD$750,000/year.)

and around 18-22 days off at home (in HK) per month

and all I do is eat sandwiches...

redsnail
18th Jul 2008, 17:38
Binos, I haven't bludged on either the Australian tax payer nor the British taxpayer. My intention is to be self funded. To do that, I need a good income now.

Metro man
18th Jul 2008, 20:56
Binos

As a retired ATC, we can reasonably assume your training was government funded can we not ?

Did you ?
1. Get paid while training
2. Get a good salary afterwards
3. Have a good superannuation scheme
4. Retire at 50 on a full pension
5. Enjoy job security
6. Have good conditions of service, relocation expenses paid, stress leave etc

If so you are a product of the system and defend what has worked for you. You got a lot from it and don't complain about contributing to it.

I and most other pilots:
1. Paid for our own training
2. Earnt nothing whilst learning
3. Were lucky to get a below award job afterwards
4. Got little if any super from dodgy employers
5. Had little if any job security
6. Had poor conditions of service, paid for our own moves, often no holiday pay.

Some of us having worked hard and sacrificed to get a decent job, resent having the "system" which did very little for us in the past, look at us now and say "You've got a good income, give us 35% of it to give to welfare dependents."

Different points of view depending on where you're coming from.

Wyle E Coyote
19th Jul 2008, 02:21
If you're not concerned about people getting left behind you should make that clear instead of hiding behind the guise of 'choice'

You got me there. I'm so far off the right wing, I can't even see it any more.

I just resent paying for a heath system I can't use, as no public system doctor has the time to deal with anything less severe than missing limbs or organs.

I resent paying for a education system that encourages mediorcaty, by discouraging competitiveness and success, and tells all the drop-outs and idiots that they're as good as the A+ students (of which there aren't any anymore as it makes the loosers feel like.....well.....loosers. God forbid!)

I resent my tax dollars being used to "pay" long term unemployed louts to do nothing, while giving them the right to vote for the government that will give them the most for nothing.

I can spend that money better myself.

Taxation is a necessary evil. But right now I'm tax free and loving it

(it'll all be different when I'm king :ok:)

Broads
19th Jul 2008, 06:22
FIRST JOB, last 7 months in GA. $15565 income, $1688 Tax thanks to 'remote' benifits, accom and car supplied. 450 hours on C206.

Binoculars
19th Jul 2008, 14:03
Owen, I think you mean hypocrite but I would hate to be accused of being a spelling nazi along with my other major shame of being paid with government funds, so I'll let it go.

He is part of the most self centred, free loading, destructive generation that has lived yet will jump on the high horse to criticise the people who keep him in the lifestyle he thinks he deserves

You are not the first person on these pages to accuse me of being personally responsible for all the problems that the baby boomers have visited upon succeeding generations including your own. That's ok, if you feel a desperate need to blame your own problems on a whole generation go for it.

I'm certainly not going to justify my financial position to an antagonist, but I would suggest rahter strongly that MetroMan is not contributing and has not contributed to said financial position in any way, and he has made it perfectly clear that he will take full advantage of the Australian system when he retires.

What about you, Owen? You seem rather angry that a previous generation is reaping the benefits of compulsory superannuation. I can understand that. But you know what? The problem you see as being passed on to you as a poisoned chalice, and which you bitterly resent, is part of our legacy too in that our children are inheriting the system of increased property prices, cost of living etc. Do you think we have wiped our hands clean of this problem? Do you not believe that parents are contributing towards that cost of living? Perhaps yours aren't?

I'll leave you to wallow in your image of what you seem to think of as my luxuriously decadent superannuation income. You have no clue about my circumstances and I for one am certainly not going to enlighten you. Continue with your bitterness if you must, but it will affect me not at all.

Metro man
19th Jul 2008, 16:02
Binos

Had the Australian government:
1. Paid for all my training.
2. Paid me while training.
3. Given me a well paid job.
4. Given me job security, no layoffs.
5. Paid my expenses each time I had to move for work.
6. Provided me with generous superannuation and leave benefits.
7. Let me retire early on a full pension.

Then I would have no problem paying the tax rates to support the system which helped me.

However I:
1. Paid virtually all my training out of my own pocket. At todays prices $100 000.
2. Got $0 training wage.
3. Got very low pay in some of my jobs. Bar staff/check out chick earnt more.
4. Did casual work or drove cabs when unable to find a flying job.
5. Paid for every move I had to make.
6. Won't be able to retire early, thankfully I can now fly to 65.
7. Will have to provide for my own retirement funds, no generous government schemes.

Now that I'm finally on a good income, I want to enjoy the fruits of my labour. In Australia the government sees high income earners as a cash cow to be milked with little to be provided in return. With what I save by not having to pay Aussie tax rates I enjoy a higher standard of living and save more money.

If and when I return I will need to be self funded as I won't qualify for a pension. Prehaps I will get a seniors card for rail trips. At least I won't be costing the taxpayer $3000/week like Peter Hollingworth. Not a bad reward for 18 months as GG. System looks after it's own and and hands us the bill.:yuk:

Track Coastal
19th Jul 2008, 16:34
I'll bite.
Had the Australian government:
1. Paid for all my training.
2. Paid me while training.
3. Given me a well paid job.
4. Given me job security, no layoffs.
5. Paid my expenses each time I had to move for work.
6. Provided me with generous superannuation and leave benefits.
7. Let me retire early on a full pension.

Then I would have no problem paying the tax rates to support the system which helped me.

Nothing stops you APPLYING and being assessed for suitability to be an Air Traffic Controller. Assuming that you meet the standards, pass the college phases AND eventually meet the requirements to obtain a licence...however you may have to work 22+ days a month, actually working (using your skills NOT monitoring a system like Pavlov's dog) which can be quite a work load.

Imagine hours of 'moving tin' where one bad decision and its tea and bikkies with management as opposed to hours of watching the FMS and responding to radio prompts (??). There are days where a combination of poor airmanship, bad weather, some equipment failure (eg an ILS, GP fail) and staff shortages and one wonders how one got home without having a bingle some days.

I appreciate the UAE fellas and there big $$ and hedonistic lifestyle...I may go myself. But Singapore???? Been there many many times. Plastic society and nothing going for it IMHO.

Bottom line...Binos has earned his $$ and more.

Toodle pip

Metro man
20th Jul 2008, 02:15
Track Costal

I have to meet some rather high standards myself, demonstrating this every six months in the simulator. My licence and job is on the line each time, and again when I do my medical.

My working hours are limited by law, sometimes this means few days are worked if flying long sectors. Obviously if I only do four hours flying in a day I will have to work more days before I reach the limit.

Pilots do get called in for tea and biscuits as well. Captain responsible if the f/o messes up.

Yes we do have many hours of systems monitoring in airline flying. Many hours of hard work doing instruction or sight seeing flights as well. I doubt I could deal with approach control during peak hours in Sydney, surely there are quieter ATC jobs as well ? Flight watch, small airport, training etc

By all means try the UAE, but read the posts on Emirates in the Middle East forum first. Many different accents from Hong Kong ATC if you fancy a job, but read ther posts from Cathay pilots on the Fragrant Harbour forum first. Singapore doesn't use expats in ATC.

Binos did well out of the system and favours it. A small business operator dealing with high taxes, ever increasing regulations, long hours etc with little back from the government in return would have a different opinion.

As I said earlier, different points of view depending on where you are coming from. :hmm:

Pappa Smurf
20th Jul 2008, 02:52
What happened to the good old days--do what ya want where you want.

OK ,im one of them ,given up my friends and lifestyle to get a $
Same job in the big smoke around $60 ,now in the boondocks getting $125.
Left everyone in debt of $40 in those days on their houses.
Went back years later with a heap of cash--they still owed $40g,but there houses where worth more than i had saved.
Knew a Singapore based oil person once who had a nice house in Sydney rented out.He would redo his house up every year as to pay no tax here in Aussie ,strange but expats have a "thing" about tax.
I pay $16 a year tax on $125-no ,im not diddling things,just put nearly half my wage in super which still leaves me $50g spending money.
Amazing how Dalkieth )WA multi-million dollar suburb) the average income is $80g.

Why are the baby boomers the ones to blame--just mundane ,normal paid jobs in those days.Agriculture was aussies backbone-----how times have changed.
Unless rich had a normal old Holden or little 4 cylinder bomb,
no such things as credit cards.
had to have 50%+deposit for a house,

Now its borrow borrow borrow,a totally different world-a costlier one.

then---pubs shut at 6
holidays were a cravan trip to a beach somewhere
no tv
no fancy toys for kids.

Now--all night entertainment
overseas holidays or resorts in Aust,
Enormous tv,s
nintendos etc ,designer shoes and clothes for kids

No wonder the $ doesnt go as far
More people struggling hence more welfare etc
More infrastrucure---aust a big country for so few people.

Maybe we could all move to Tassie,make it overcrowded and taxes would drop.

I dont like paying tax but i have my way of reducing it.

And political ,which ever party is in control,giveth with one hand and taketh with the other-you need X amount to run the country,so where stuck with it.

Life goes on,work and pay,an if your an ex-pat and plan on coming back and dont own a house in Aussie you had better start saving those tax free dollars.

Track Coastal
20th Jul 2008, 03:08
Metroman,

The old defined benefit type super schemes were schemes that rewarded loyalty and long service. I reckon we are talking 35+ years of service to get say 70% of your FAS in the ATC biz. I am not in such a scheme and therefore haven't the underlying loyalty. The controllers that joined up in the 60s and 70s deserve every cent they get IMHO and they will never be a burden on our welfare system. A good deal if you ask me.

My average tax rate is 30c/$ spread over the 4 thresholds, of that 30c, I have no problem with the govt fulfilling its obligations to our Controllers, Firefighters, Nurses, Policeman, EMS helicopter pilots etc etc - just rewards for long service to OUR communities and generally underpaid for what they did when they worked.

I, like most, do have a problem with my 30c being squandered on poor Defence aquisition decisions, pork-barrelling (marginal electorates getting 'favours'), political junkets, MPs retirement schemes. But the only thing I can really do about that in this wonderful land, if I choose to live here, is vote carefully after due consideration (I'm a swinging voter BUT I've grown to hate the Nationals :mad: in last 10 years).

On the UAE front, by my calculations and circumstances I will pick up a 60+% increase in folding money in Dubai as an ATC. Watch this space. Our EBA is up for negotiation and come 2009 there could be quite a few ATCs at Emirates departure lounges with one way tickets.

If I was a tad curt in my previous post, apologies, I was under the false impression that you thought our retired ATCs were on some of gravy train after a few short years of reading the paper at work (and was fiesty after some very nice 03 Shiraz).

ForkTailedDrKiller
20th Jul 2008, 03:19
I will pick up a 60+% increase in folding money in Dubai

It would take a great deal more than a 60+% increase to get me to live in the sandpit!

Dr :8

PS: But then again I do already live in paradise!

Track Coastal
20th Jul 2008, 03:27
PS: But then again I do already live in paradise!
That, my friend, is the CRUX of the problem (go to a dump and retire earlier or stay in a superb part of the world and spend an extra 7years/12,000 hours at work).

Metro man
20th Jul 2008, 04:13
I have no problem paying a fair tax rate of 10 - 15% to support the running of the country and provide a BASIC welfare system for those who REALLY need it.

I do object to paying 35% to support government ineffeciency and a feather bed welfare system rewarding indolence and apathy.

You can choose to live in a nice place such as Australia paying very high taxes for doing so, or live tax free in Kuwait or Qatar counting the days until you can afford to leave. You can also find something in between.

With the current shortage of controllers the new EBA better be good or there will be even more TIBA. Ever considered that if the welfare burden wasn't so high, Air Services would have more money available for staff salaries, tax rates would be lower so you could keep more of your hard earned. It would be worthwhile to stay home rather than suffer the sand pit. Highly suitable people would be attracted to a lucrative career in ATC - no staff shortages.

Everyone benefits except those who don't want to work. These people should be forced to take a low pay job and given some government assistance to make ends meet. The tax payer gives $150/week wage top up instead of $600/week to do nothing. Employers wouldn't be complaining of staff shortages. Work for the dole taken further.

another superlame
20th Jul 2008, 04:46
This thread has spiralled out of control. How about people posting as per the title and opening comment,

How much did you earn and what tax did you pay.

Keep the school yard comments to the Qantas threads

PlankBlender
20th Jul 2008, 06:24
Superlame, excellent post, I second that!!

As for me, income this FY: $0/zip/zilch/nada/null/nothing :uhoh:

Expenses for CPLs/MECIR/NVFR training and hour building: $45,000 and counting :eek:

Fortunately, savings from my first career mean I can watch my ever diminishing account balance without much panic, although the inevitable point-of-return-to-work is rapidly approaching :{

I'd love to learn how others are doing in GA and instructing. I'm thinking instructor rating after I finally get the CPL tickets later this year (oh those dreaded theory exams), and then move up to the East Coast a I'm reaaaally getting sick of shoddy southern winter weather, although it's great for the CIR..