Sa Training Schools Infos Request

[salimedj]

Hi African Ppruners

does anyone has some information about FTS in GRAND south Africa
it seems to be a good school and it is run by 2 SAA pilots

the CPL/IR/ME deal is very intersting


all comments welcome
also for Lanseria Training Center and Flight Training College in George
any infos welcome



Thx

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

This little writer has posted a lot about FTS over the last six months or so.
I am sure that you can access those deathless words of praise on this forum in particular and possibly on the flight instructors forum as well.
The school is owned by two SAA A340 pilots. It is an altogether excellent establishment reflecting high standards and worthy of praise.
I have nothing to do with the school in business terms other than having flown with them on such missions as ATPL refresher training and renewals.
Flight Training College, George, is owned by an SAA A340 Skipper with whom I have flown in the past. I am quite sure that you would not be disappointed if you went there. There is plenty of information about that establishment in Pprune archives.
Equipped with two such excellent institutions, I would look no further and make a choice between one or the other of them.......
Good hunting....cc

[alpha-b]

Hi there

I've been very involved with FTS in Grand-central,very excellent institutions can't get any better around,the standard is top-notch being owned by Two SAA pilots they make sure on a daily basis that the standard is set high go for it.All the best

[zapoi67]

Hi Cavortingcheetah, how are you ? :ok:

You were supposed to give me a phone number while in München, in order to discuss FTS.... still waiting for it ! :p


By the way, does anyone have info about Phoebus Apollo flight school in FAGM ?

[cavortingcheetah]

:)

Humble apologies. It should be in your breakfast pms, this merry morning, Wednesday, July 9th.
:)

[digitalsoul]

FTS in Grand Central is a very good school and Instructors, management is all upto standard. they respect their customers and bring them first. So far i did not meet any unhappy student. Aircraft are well maintained. Weather is good all round for flying in joburg. If u are committed you will complete very fast, also they have a system of computer based training, for free, so u can just go to the computer room any time and learn from the computer by watching and listening real time lesson on computer with the headset, making it very easy to understand....and it is anytime...no time restriction, so come any time, learn at your own phase and pass.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND FTC IN GEORGE: REASONS:
weather in George is very bad, cloud come up to ground....Wind is Crazy there, good for crosswind practice, but in many cases flights are canceled because of wind. Accomodation is not near the school, making it hard to come to school, so u will have to arrange your own transport-costly-sometime school provide transport-but not so convenient. George is the most boring place i Have ever experienced, except for the cheap beer
I did not fly in george but visited my friend there for 2 weeks, and being a pilot i could see.
Other than that, FTC is George is also a good school-not much problem.

[Vlamgat]

See the thread on Baron Rental for IF training!!

[kurt0375]

Hi i currently live in the UK and am going to SA to do my PPL as it is half the price than here. I am hoping to do it in 2 months and at Border Aviation Club in East London? Is the weather good in East London in January and is it a good flying school?

[digitalsoul]

Man, don bother going to east london if u wana finish in 2 months. weather sucks a bunch there. Try FTS(flight training service in Grand Central, Johannesburg) Just check for schools in johannesburg area...weather is good and much cheaper than the east london side. I hope this helps. Cheers

[Herold]

Digitalsoul has made a few amusing posts (both with respect to grammar and content) but the time has come for a little sanity to prevail. His devotion to FTS is admirable, but it surely doesn’t warrant the nonsense he writes about South African coastal weather?

The Southern and Eastern Cape weather is great in general. Mossel Bay (45 km from George) has one of the most temperate climates in the world with especially summer and autumn conducive to flight training. Comparatively few (e.g. to Western Europe) days are lost in winter due to bad weather. And, my goodness, if it didn’t rain here we would call the place a desert.

By the way, “cloud come up to ground” (sic) is called fog, something you even get in the desert. It just so happens that it’s not a particularly common phenomenon at George. Then this little gem: “Wind is Crazy there, good for crosswind practice, but in many cases flights are canceled because of wind” (sic). No, not true.

A few other considerations: prices between inland and coastal flight schools do not vary much. Simple economics, really. FTC has a brand new crew bus that is used to transport all living in students. It runs every day on a schedule, no problem. The Southern Cape is surely boring if you are not into sea, sand, surf and relaxed way of living. Also, what more do you need in terms of movies, restaurants and bars that George offer like any small city? So we don’t have hijackings and cash-in-transit robberies, but that’s the way we want it to remain.

[kurt0375]

Is the weather in East London suitable enough to do enough flying in january/February to complete a ppl in 2 months. The reson i am going to do it in East London is because my grand mother lives there and it will be easier and cheaper.

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

If you engage in some serious and careful pre training planning, you should be able to complete your PPL within the two month time scale. But it will take hard work. There is more to a two month PPL completion than just the weather.
There are a few things that you could do which might save you time once you get down there. Please forgive me for reminding you of these if you have already thought of them.
Not necessarily in order, but here are some thoughts.

1. Book medical or even better, get one done in the UK that is valid down there. No point in turning up to fly if there is you suddenly discover you have leprosy. There's a chap who lives near Winchester who could probably do that for you.

2. Find out exactly what is required these days for the completion of an SA PPL.

3. Find out in particular precisely what is requried for the issuance of a radio licence.

4. Get the school to DHL you their subject training notes and, most particularly, any text books or notes they have on that radio licence. Study hard now, in the three months remaining before you get down there. You'll have a lot more fun in ZA if you know even half the material before you arive.

5. Book yourself now on the necessary ground courses and any radio course that might be on offer. If the school does not offer courses, go elsewhere.
As I remember, the radio licence could be a real time consumer and you might want to book that course and test now, towards the end of your course.

6. Schedule your flying bookings around your ground courses, which are likely to be in the evening anyway.

7. You should be able to put in, given decent weather, two sessions a day.
So you could consider making flight bookings now for at least the first month.
Most schools seem to run their booking sheets in blocks of 1.5 to 2.0 hours but you will unlikely to fly more than 1 hour in each block, especially in the beginning.
This may sound as though you will be able to fly the forty hours in one month but this will not prove to be the case.
There will be an attrition rate on bookings due to technical problems and weather. You will not, for example, be able to consolidate your solo circuits unless the weather and wind are pretty subdued.

8. The budget might need reviewing. I don't know what you have been told but, if you are budgeting on the minimum flying for licence issure, you should really allow another 10 hours flying, just to be fat. Do not pay the school vast amounts of money up front. Perhaps buy a block of 10 hours at a discounted price, fly that off and buy another?

Cannot find a website for Border Air which does not mean that there isn't one of course. It might be useful if you have not already done so, to do a search on Pprune for them. I am not sure that they have cropped up before and that, in this business probably means that no one goes to them?
If you want a quick fix for flying, which you indicate that you do, have you obtained a quote from any of the more popular schools, either in George or Johannesburg? Many of them, as I understand things, offer in house accomodation and provide transport, which is difficult and expensive and sometimes dangerous in SA?

Well that's a lot of rambling on and most of it is probably useless anyway. It's the ground stuff that's likely to hold you back in terms of time. Just have a feeling that you might perhaps be confusing the priorities between the excellence of the school and their ability to push you through in an expeditious manner with the perceived convenience of living with your grandmother which might, in the long run, not be cheaper and easier than other options.:)

[kurt0375]

Thanks a million. I have cosidered some of those piont and seen as though someone alse (you) has told me i will seriously consider it. I do know someone in SA who was tought by them and apparently they are really good.
Thanks

[digitalsoul]

Herold, I presume u must be running a school on the coastal side, or perhaps the said school in East London, and just trying to advertise your school. To be honest, let's not argue about this; I have trained in 43 air school.... i know the weather there, and I have been to George..... East London is close to 43 air school and we used to go do our instrument flying there from 43.... weather sucks! It's very difficult to do a decent cross country flight quick.
Oh ya... to prove it.... I think the interested party can easily prove that by checking daily weather forecast for that side.... then tell me if am wrong... it's all on internet here.... Herold, please be informative not misleading.....

[Herold]

Digitalsoul's amusing take on matters aviation refers. Cavortingcheetah published a very good posting on the factors to take into account when choosing a flight school. It should be clear from the post that weather is only one of many factors to take into consideration when making an informed decision.

However, ignorant posters can put a slant on aspects of training that could put interested parties off a particular region or school, especially if said individual purports to be informed. I’m sure that the particular poster in question isn’t being malicious or trying to push a hidden agenda; he’s just a little passionate about a subject of which he obviously has very little knowledge or insight.

So, how about looking at data from the South African Weather Service for Johannesburg and George, to keep things nice and simple? Historical data indicates that Johannesburg had an average annual rainfall of 713 mm for 1961 to 1990, with George coming in at 715 mm. Johannesburg averages twice the monthly rainfall of George from November to February as it is a summer rainfall region. George has higher annual rainfall for the months of April to September as it has a Mediterranean type climate. And so on... The bottom line is that neither area suffers from climatic extremes. Snow is largely unknown, no monsoons, no hurricanes and no month-long heat waves. It really is six of one and half a dozen of the other wherever one chooses to go from a weather viewpoint. So, many of the factors mentioned by cavortingcheetah carry more weight in a decision-making process than weather because, in a South African context, weather doesn’t play havoc with flight training over extended periods of time.

As a footnote to digitalsoul: you presume wrong on all counts.

[Herold]

Suitcaseman, you’re missing the point.

There are many factors in flight training to consider, of which weather is only one.
No contention in any post that weather is better at the coast, or that flying isn’t influenced by weather at the coast. In RSA it's just not such a big issue compared to other places in the world.
George is only an EXAMPLE to indicate that things aren’t as grim at the coast as certain posters make it out to be. Do you seriously believe that the weather is better in Johannesburg in February, for example, than the Southern Cape? Do you watch cricket?
In the George area several flight schools and flying operations do good business all year round.
Fog occurs during periods of time during the day in George, just like the rain in Johannesburg you refer to. It tends to clear up; your missed approaches in the early AM, no?
Digitalsoul presented opinion as fact, as if weather is such a heavily loaded factor that it should preclude someone from considering flight training at one of the many fine coastal establishments.

I posted comments to try and balance misinterpretations of observations and perceived facts. Nothing too intentionally misleading in that I trust?

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

There is quite a lot bouncing around on this thread now. There's the weather on the coast as well as that in Johannesburg, a time scale for PPL accomplishment, George, FTS @ Grand Central, FTC in George, East London and Border Air.
In general terms, if you've done a good deal of legwork and homework before you arrive in South Africa and provided you have the money in your lederhosen, there seems little reason to doubt that two months is a sufficient time period in which to complete a South African PPL. You should in fact be able to get through the lot in six weeks. It would be hard work but dedication and precision would help.
Therefore one can perhaps afford to loose a fortnight because of weather. I have often seen it clag in over JHB in summer for a week at a time and what, apart from getting rat alcoholised can one do? Why study of course and hang around the flight school taking in briefings and perfecting one's classroom navigation skills. This is, after all, one presumes at any rate, a full time exercise on the part of those who want to do it.
A previously arranged battle plan with the flight school of choice is essential to a successful outcome within the time scale talked about. FTS at FAGC will, I believe accomodate such a plot. I am certain that WW at FTC would do the same. I have no knowledge of Border Air except that I think that many years ago there used to be a company of the same name in East London which flew baby charters for Transkei Airways? I cannot find a website for them, which means that I may be at fault but I would raise a slight eyebrow at launching to train at a school whose website was not easily obtainable on the net.
This may be being unfair because I might have missed the thing myself. I would also have an eye on the recent financial turmoils and the price of Avgas in ZA. I would want to train with a school that was successful enough so that it would be unlikely to encounter its own financial problems while I were down there. In this regard and in passing, November is four months away. perhaps anyone going down to SA had better load their budget by a factor of 15% to cover any increases in flight schooll aircraft hire that might arise between now and then.
On balance and without being very familiar with the FAEL weather, I would opt for FTS at FAGC. I hasten to add that this recommendation has nothing whatsoever to do with FTC. Both schools are probably equal best in Africa. It is just that I theeeenk that JHB probably does have a slight weather edge over the coast and certainly, and it was a fair point raised by digitalsoul, the cross country opportunities from JHB do encompass north, south, east and west. I have my doubts that the same flexibility goes for EL?
That's all folks.

Except.

Flight Training College - George South Africa (http://www.flighttraining.co.za/career.htm)

Flight Training Services - Grand Central Airport (http://www.fts.co.za/)

I'm back folks!

Further research revealed that Border Air is in fact called Border Aviation Club. Still cannot find a website for it, but if it is a club then that is not so surprising. Did dig this blurb up. (Below) It does not relate to women and anyway, those delights carry their own little bundle of band aids as endemic.
To the writer who was keen on Border Air and whose friend was trained by them; I would make sure that at the very least, the same highly thought of instructor would be there in a few months time to do my own training. FTS and FTC have myriads of healthy young women instructors, and some good blokes to, but they don't count in the cockpit. You'll might get a bit stuck if the club only has one or two chaps working for it. Do not forget that much of South Africa closes down between (December 15th and January 6th).(ish) That's holiday time folks and the other paying punters go away.I would also very much beware the economics of successful club continuance when the financial crocodiles come munching out of the swamps.

East London South Africa (http://www.south-african-delights.com/east-london.html)

:oh:

[aintboeingaintgoing]

Hi all

Just thought that I would let you all know that I have done a LOT of flying at Border Aviation in East London, and have found them to be a really friendly professional bunch of people who will do anything to make sure that you get all of your training done in the said time frame! All the staff are great the instructors are some of the best I have flown with and will do anything to make sure you get all the flight training you need even if that means them being at the airport at 6am. The first time I was there I had to revalidate my PPL (it had lapsed) and I had 7 days to do it in, I was out there from the UK. With their help I managed to do all the PPL exams and do 13 hours of flying which included the cross country flight test and the PPL flight test. I have no doubt that if I was at a bigger school I would NEVER have managed to accomplish that and would have come back half finished! They have 4 Aeroplanes at the moment (the last time I was there 2 Months ago) they are a C150 2x C172 and 1 PA 28 – 180. You use the main East London airport which is great to fly from and there are loads of costal and inland cross countries you can choose from!

I think that 2 month should be ample time to complete the PPL although I suggest you do speak to Liz and I am sure that she will arrange for the books to be sent across to you so that you can arrive there ready!

Hope this info is useful
:ok:

[cavortingcheetah]

:hmm:

Very useful indeed, one should have thought, but is there a website, just as a point in idle passing?:)

[brownwings]

i did my cpl from scratch and it took me 8 months. i did it in george and the wx was very good. some thick fog sometimes but it disperced pretty quickly.... i really enjoyed living and flying there. the scenery, wearther, people, beaches, surfing, hiking, diving, golf. very laid back atmosphere. and no crime....

if you are going to do flying training at these turbulent times, and you want to do it in south africa, then george is your place...

just remember that with these fuel prices and economic difficulties a few airlines will go down. there wont be as many pilot jobs available as there were in the past years... next couple of years will be difficult times for the aviation.

[G-STAW]

Hello guys,

i am planning to go out to south africa is september/october time to do my ppl training. I am thinking of completely about 10 hours at Liverpool with Revanair....

i'm really wanting more information on getting my PPL out there, looks like the weather is great:ok: plus its looks alot cheaper than the uk etc....

ive been tralling through google, and found some decent sites like flight-school.net.

if you guys could give me more info about SA that'll be great,


thanks for your time guys,

Scott

[zapoi67]

There are LOTS of information on PPRuNe, just do a search. :ok:

Unless you have PRECISE questions....

[kurt0375]

Just got back from South Africa and managed to complete my PPL within 2 months at BAC. The staff (including Admin) were extremely supportive throughout the time and did every thing they could to help me complete in the given time period. I was booked in twice a day. i could have completed it in a shorter space of time but unfortunatly the weather wasn't kind. If any body is considering doing it in South Africa, I highly recomend going to BAC, they are an extremely nice bunch of people and every thing is done in a friendly, enjoyable, laidback (In a Good Way) environment.