Hello all,

I am somewhat surprised that no one in this forum has touched on the subject of Sterling being up shit creek...

Is this the beginning of the end, or....?

Where does this leave all the MPL students, that are currently training with Center Air / Sterling Airlines?

Or will Sterling repeat previous practice of sacking pilots, and as they are leaving the company new ones are coming through the revolving (revolting) door?

Any thoughts?????

Best regards,

Ehhh we have, but it`s hiddn in another thread. Fact is they`ve been up that creek for awhile now unfortunately:(

This is not the end,
This is not even the beginning of the end,
This is the end of the beginning

(Thanks to W.C)

Ok... Sterling is by far the first candidate to bite the dust within a few short period of time! Oil, crew, lease-contracts and the never-ending stream of wet-leases will bring them down. Too bad really but in due time! Never shown black figures and keep on dumping ticket-prices, making it impossible to ever reach a more realistic and not over-established market as the Scandinavian has been for the last five years. I personally think Sterling should focus on their "own" market, the danish, in which they are well established.

Glad I havent just enrollded in their MPL training!!

According to this (http://sydsvenskan.se/danmark/article344684.ece) article (in Swedish) they will now dismiss 200 employees from flight deck and cabin.

...which pretty much says that they couldn`t get onugh people to voluntarily resign/retire, thus they now have to furlough people using the "last in - first out" principle. Also, around 30 captains are to be degraded to first officers, and paid accordingly:ouch:.

So where does this leave the MPL pilots? I`m guessing that they were amongst the last in, so....:{ But where can they go from here? Not really experienced yet, and holding a half-a$$ license doesn`t even open doors in third world aviation countries:= Unless they are "suddenly" ""offered"" to pay for some more hours to gain more "experience":rolleyes:

Sterling Airways STN almost a daily visitor in the 70's.

Im sorry for you guys who will be "hit" by the Sterling mis-management.

For Sterling itself, I couldnt care less. Companies like Sterling (and other shit paying "low cost" carriers that trying underbidding established carriers and selling tickets a stupid prices which everybody know they are not making money - can go and dig there own graves now - good be it!

The more established carriers, who manages to reward their pilots fairly, are struggling to keep costs down and that leads to pressure on the employees - eg deteriorating conditions of service (pay etc) -only because some crap airline management think they are so smart.
Well there you go - goodbye Sterling - now we just need Norwegian to face the same fate and thats just a matter of time too.

Again - I wish the pilots and employees all the best in the future - may you soon find greener pastures.
Y.

Yeager: I work for Norwegian. I agree with you!
What we are seeing now, is a constant drive to get the employees to pay out of their own pockets, so that Norway's white trash (anyone seen the TV series "Charterfeber"...?) can go to Spain for NOK 300. Unfortunately, our company is filled to the brim with people who have struggled their way through countless companies that either went belly-up, and/or had the worst possible working conditions. These pilots are now willing to sacrifice quite a lot in order to keep DY afloat. To a certain extent, I can certainly understand this. You can only take so much of having to start all over again every few years.
As for myself, I would rather see my company follow the Titanic instead of having to work for free and fund everyone else's week end trips to European capitals...
If DY cannot afford to provide their employees with roughly the same basic T&Cs as similar companies and at the same time make some money for their investors - it's the market strategy and business model (management job) that needs to be adjusted - not our T&Cs!

Crossunder: If this is how you feel why don't you simply hand in you resignation?

..rather than telling him to resign, how about taking the lube away from your ass and with a straight spine demand a salary that reflects your qualifications, training, radiation levels, sleep patterns, shift-work, dehydration, divorce rate, lack of job security and average death at (retirment + 3 years)?

The only other professionals I know of that sponsor their employers are called whores.

928; why the hell would I resign just because of what I fear might happen? I am simply saying that I have a sneaking suspicion that far too many in my company are willing to bend over and start picking up soap bars in the boss' shower. Only time will show if we all have the guts to stand our ground and stick together. I don't expect one helluva pay rise and a pot of gold. I'm hoping that the lower 20% of the pilots (on the seniority list) aren't sold down the river, and that we don't accept our T&Cs to diminish. Would you accept a pay cut to an already, at best, mediocre salary?

We are all willing to learn new things and try new approaches to how we perform our daily duties. We (almost) all follow the fuel saving guidlines provided to us by management. We work as efficiently as possible to ensure quick turnarounds. Most of us show up 15-20 min early (often more) to check flight plans, weather etc, so as to be at the gate a few minutes earlier (because our check-in time is really too short). We plan, re-plan, fly the given cost indices, re-evaluate, tanker fuel strategically, many of us help the cabin crew clean the aircraft during the too short turnarounds. We all do our best. Most, if not all new joiners pay for their own type rating. If that is not enough, then this particular company has no future! :=
So instead of resigning, one must fight for decent T&Cs :ok:

I believe Mr. Crossunder has earlier stated that he has resigned for much much greener pastures:ok:

...just saw your last post there,,, well, maybe I was thinking of someone else:ugh:

Haven't resigned....yet! Waiting for a new join date :) Anyway; I would not resign merely because of the present T&Cs at DY. They're not half bad, as long as they don' get any worse :ok:
It's the long term stability I'm worried about. Even SAS cannot provide the kind of stability that can KLM/AF, BA or CX, so the largest carriers are the ones to aim for! ;)

If the f@<hidden> freakin' business model doesnt work as it is - then thats life. Let the white trash stay in their holes. Why is it that some guys think that everything will be good as long at they accept lowering ther conditions of service - how has it ever, ever saved anyhing but the managements bonuses for another year?? Go piss in your pants but up there and it will not be warm for long - I promise you that. Anyways I understand u want to keep your jobs. Wish you guys the best - just dont become cheap whores.

I believe the new protocol to the DY collective agreement signed yesterday will clearify the situation a lot.

With 13 workingdays less. 5 early-4 off-5 late-4 off, and a 3,9 % payrise.

Thats more than I even was dreaming about taking into account the current fuelprice situation.

:cool:

But isn`t that the same as 5-5-4-3? If you take into consideration the early starts and late starts you still end up with an effective 3 days off period, though you`ve gained an effective 5 days off (4 off). Good with a payrise, but how much did the rest of the taxpaying country average this year? Was it around 6% or so?

5-5-4-3 ?

Old 5-4-5-3 = 189 working days

New 5-4-5-4 = 177 working days

....But those just 3,9% barely covers the inflation...! Not much when you consider that the salaries in DY already is an industry low among western european airlines.... :*

This will not help awoiding a downgoing spiral when it comes to conditions for pilots!

That's plain bullshit.

This years raise including the build in climb on the payscale, the 3,9 % and the 13 less working days is a 13,4% rise.

:cool:

Hanguren, I don`t think that NAS salaries are at an industry low. In Norway they compare quite well to the other carriers, and working 13 days less each year means that the pilots earn more money any given day than before. This doesn`t really drag them down, does it? But....

Dovregubben, calculating with percentage is interesting. I`ll take your word for it when you say the effective increase is 13,4%. But at the same time you need to mention that this is compared with your previous t&cs which required more working days. What is important is how much your earn per annum:ok: And that should be a 3,9% increase, no? But of course, getting paid more for less days of porduction is always a good deal:D

The salary increase could of course have been better (couldnt it always?), but in the extraordinary situation we find ourselves I think it's resonible.

And some of you make it sound like the pay is at McDonalds level. NAS have a very good startpay (most join at paygrade 4 or 5), better than most (all?) our LCC competitors. The top captain's pay could be a bit higher, and I'm sure we'll get there eventually.

Overall I think the deal was pretty good, all things considered: 5-4 (and dont forget we're home every night)and a pay increase. I'll take it! Then we'll see what happens down the road. I'm sure it'll be a bumpy ride for most of us. Let's just hope and pray the oilprices come down.

A good example is a friend of mine joining the company a good year back. aprox. 1800 hrs TT. Started at level 4, now at 5 with 509.000,- + 100.000 extras + pension scheme and full incurence. Not bad for a 25 year old.

Norwegian vil gi opsjoner for lønnskutt ( Børs og finans , Norwegian Air Shuttle ) (http://e24.no/boers-og-finans/article2539901.ece)

Or maybe this is the beginning of the end?:ouch:

...last time they tried this emplyee stock option scheme, they ended up in a legal battle with the employees who took the bait. The company lost, but is still holding on to the money owed to the employees. I bet that will inspire many to go for a paycut in return for stock options in a company heading for bancruptcy (maybe)? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!
The new deal is ok. Especially the part about working 13 days less per year ;-)

You´re right about the scheme from 2002. It ended up in the courtroom. Anyway, the deal proved to be a good one, just a tiny little fraction of the shares was subject to the legal battle. A lot of pilots made a really good lump on that deal.

Beer make you (me...) angry, so I must agree (with only a few beers aboard) that Norwegian is not all that bad...:

1. The starting salary in Norwegian is good.

2. The salary increase combined with the additional days is quite good.

3. One could expect worse, considering the oil prices....................

BUT: You can fly ambulance flights, helicopter services and 37 seat turboprops in Norway with much better conditions than in a company operation a dual number amount of 737s.

AND: Norwegian have one of the lowest top-salary levels (ex; captain after 15 years of service) in the whole industry in Europe.

So; Okay, I may have been a bit angry, but I am still pissed off about unions which lower our conditions below the LH,. BA, AF, KL and SK level. That is MY privilege, and then you may critisise me as much as you want;

That is YOUR privilege....

H

I'll take more days off instead of money any day. tax man just grabs it all anyway....:uhoh:

Nåja, den ambulanseflygingen gir visst 301.000

"Lufttransport tilbyr nye styrmenn ca. 440 000 kr første året inklusive tillegg"..........

Er det fritid man er ute etter er vel LT en ganske klar vinner. Der jobbes det for tiden 12/16. Dersom Subpart Q (kuk) går igjennom, blir det nok 7-7-7-14. Helt klart en dårligere deal...men likevel myye fritid. Payscale FO, trinn 2 passerer man lett 550k med litt fridagssalg.,....my 2 cents:cool:

BD

...550k med litt fridagssalg...

men da er det vel ikke akkurat 12/16 lenger, er det?

Men poenget er vel at det fortsatt er pendlervennlig:ok: Og det ser ut til at lønna også er god:D. 7-7-7-14 betyr vel egentlig at i den perioden jobber man totalt 14 dager og har 21 dager fri. Noe som gir lit mere fri enn 12-16, dog ikke like mange sammenhengende fridager. Blir smak og behag, men LT er iallefall en sikker arbeidsgiver og de betaler bra :ok:

Quote:
...550k med litt fridagssalg...
" men da er det vel ikke akkurat 12/16 lenger, er det? "

Det har du rett i. Men poenget var vel at man har store muligheter til å bytte litt fritid mot penger, hvis man vil...;)


men....nå var vel dette opprinnelig en tråd om Sterling..?! :}

Ja fritid uten overtid og lønn ikludert overtid er en vinner!

Subpart Q vil begrense mulighet for overtid i alle selskap meget kraftig.

Still detaljere spørsmål hvis arbeidsgiver oppgir betaling inkl tillegg. Grunnlønn, overtid, nåværende schedule, ny schedule, effekt av subpart Q, diett, diett dager man ikke kalles ut ? etc. Ellers er det ikke mulig å sammenligne flere tilbud. Fremstillinen kan være en blanding av det beste av det nye og det beste av det gamle (som ikke lar seg kombinere) for å pynte kaka maksimalt.

Gjelder alle selskap!

16.juli har passert. Hvorfor snakkes det fortsatt om at EU-OPS PART Q vil eller kommer til å endre ting?

Beech Driver, du skrev idag (20 juli) "Dersom Subpart Q (kuk) går igjennom". Implementering ble gjort for 4 dager siden; betyr det at Lufttransport pr.idag ikke har signert samsvarserklæringen og dermed fått fornyet sin AOC? I så fall, på hvilket grunnlag opererer dere da?

Cloud surfer, dette har mest sannsynlig å gjøre med søknad om disp og behandlingstid av denne. Kanskje også behandlingstid ved evt klagesak. Juli er som kjent ferietid, og da går byråkratiet om mulig enda tregere enn normalt:ugh:

The bullshit continues. The start salary in DY is higher that LT,WIF or whatever. During the years you will have earned more money in DY than in any of the mentioned.

About 80-90 pilots started in DY 3-5 years back, where 85% of these started at 475.000. After 3 years almost all of these got their command upgrade and now are paid fixed 832.000-854.000 + extras.

When they look at their monthly paycheck details, under

7999 ** Totale ytelser **, the numbers are approx. 80.000,- +.

If they work extra days, they are paid 9.638,- + 684,- per diem (9hr + shift) 10.322 a day.

Not industri top but gaining EVERY YEAR.

:cool:

Cloud surfer, dette har mest sannsynlig å gjøre med søknad om disp og behandlingstid av denne. Kanskje også behandlingstid ved evt klagesak. Juli er som kjent ferietid, og da går byråkratiet om mulig enda tregere enn normalt

Leser hva du skriver, men skulle ønsket en forklaring som bygger på mer enn synsing. Siden hele EU-OPS (ikke bare part Q) implementeres fom. 16.juli, er det da slik å forstå at man ikke er underlagt det nye regelverket så lenge man har søkt om disp på ett eller annet? Fortsatt BSL-OPS som gjelder da?

Når det gjelder en mulig klagesak, så gikk høringsfristen ut den 15. desember 2007. Det var muligheten til å klage.

Men så er ikke jeg byråkrat. Noen som kan forklare meg det hele? Ta gjerne med noe linjer om Sterling for å sy den tråden videre....

LT har som nevnt i en annen tråd her inne, en disp søknad liggende til behandling. Skal ikke gå så mye inn i detaljene rund dette, men det søkes kun om disp for å gjennomsnittsberegne tjenestetiden over en 2-ukers periode.

så...I påvente av svar på denne søknaden, så er det gitt selskapet en tillatelse til å fortsette med det gamle vaktsystemet til 15 sept. Hva som skjer etter denne tid, kommer an på om dispen innvilges eller ei.

BD

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=bbhr4gw7tsm7c4t9fyaum0uzz1kvcx8hxhupmeh1uuzukfts1s9


http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=wprhtmg25feymembbetp6ksakjhhfzs1b57sfbh8hmwur4tr893

Now this is just base pay, but NOK 280+ for DY vs NOK410 for WF? This is appearantly for year 1 (and I`m guessing that the DY scale is if the company, by some kind of divine intervention, fronts the rating). Couldn`t find the LT scale, and the SAS scale is also missing.

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/factfile.php?id=jauy3xhfskw74048nyy3cph201qge3sp39avuey9nh7h7z9gjya

And there`s one for the thread as well:ok::}

Snacka om att kapa en tråd..

Kanske läge att byta ämne på denna tråden?

Du bleedair, verkar nog som norrmännen har det ganska bra ändå om dom har så mycket tid övar att debatera ingenting;)

Kunde inte sagt det bättre själv :}