ASA and KINGFISHER kill dreams of indian trainee pilots

[shuchim]

hi guys yesterday ASA told there india tranee pilots which r under cadet pilot scheme of kingfisher to pack there bags and go back home because ASA facing finencial problem and will shut off soon ,now what those student going to do and will any action be taken by kingfisher or not in this regard because those student pay a lot of money through bank loan and how will they be able to pay that back .they ask for help from indian goverment in this regard and its our AVIATION PEOPLE duty to help them in solving problem so pls if there any one from kingfisher airline reding this thread ask from your HR to help them and what going to be there carrier in future ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

[C433]

Hi Shuchim,
I am sorry to hear about this as you say a lot of student pilots have lost a lot of money without obtaining a qualification. I am not sure what the agreement is between the students and Kingfisher? At the present time Kingfisher is loosing a lot of money, reducing routes with the likely delay of the international or cancellation all together of the start of international operations. To put it into perspective I think the currently employed qualified pilots should be worried about their jobs, not just those at ASA.

Indian student pilots have had a good run over the last 3 years going from not flying an aircraft at all and then 12 months later being in the right seat of an A320 or B737 with 250 hours total. The bubble had to burst sooner or later! It has burst unfortunately.

The world economy has been on the down for some time now, this hasn't happened overnight! Increasing ATF prices pushing up operating costs which in turn push up the ticket cost to the passenger with the net result of less people flying and the airlines loosing more money.

The airlines have to reduce capacity and reduce the amount of seats they offer on a daily basis to increase their load factors to try and make a profit.

At the end of the day if you pay an organization a lot of money up front prior to obtaining your completed training, it is a large risk! Especially in the world of aviation, with a general aviation organization the risk is even higher.

I also think that people over the last 12 months have had a good indication of this day coming and should have been more cautious and not proceeded with pilot training. I know hind site is great but the indications have been there.

I do hope something is sorted out for these student pilots as it will be a great loss for them. Unfortunately this is life and reality. :(

[capson]

well said C433....

All you youngies...out there who are keen on becoming an Airline pilot!!!!!

GET OUT...!!!!!...it was a hipe, now its gone...:\...please go back to uni do something else...

Its cost too much....to get the "ticket"... when the economy sneezes....the "Airline" catches a COLD and a FEVER :ugh:

Sorry to hear to those effected BY ASA....

Good luck to everyone....

[apachelongbow]

after the article was published in Times of India, dated 27th Nov I did some research of my own. I now understand that Kingfisher KFA is not in any relationship with ASA. There was a agreement earlier where in KFA was supposed to give an interview chance to some ASA students, but the agreement was broken in 2007.

Times of India is known to report wrongly and sensationalize issues for the heck of it, they are good for page -3 reporting as of today. i am not trying to defend Kingfisher in this and students need to keep their eyes open before choosing a flying school.

ASA had a horrible reputation with it being asked for closure in 2007 also. It didnt have a valid business insurance i.e. its aircraft were flying un insured. Also the promoter a certian Mr. Singh overstayed in US after his flying in 1995, he is romored to be running this school as an illegal alien.

In some of his interviews he has claimed his schools problems to arise from 'indian agents' making off with his money and at some other places the students who complained about ASA as students being not qualified enough to fly.

ASA was running a huge racket in the name of flying. if you want you can check the website for yourselves and take a look at the unprofessional language and spelling mistakes to start with.

[flightknight]

Indian pilot trainees duped by US aviation school - Sify.com (http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14705264)

IndiaPost.com - Californian aviation school ousts Indian trainees (http://indiapost.com/article/india/3140/)

The Telegraph - Calcutta (Kolkata) | Nation | California ‘Prince’ dupes aspiring pilots (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080629/jsp/nation/story_9479236.jsp)

TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos - (http://www.timesnow.tv/NewsDtls.aspx?NewsID=10665)

[flightknight]

ASA is a company that has had a long history of shady business practices. This company was always run by a group of shady businessmen. The aviation world is pretty small and bad news gets around and that is the reason why there were very few LOCAL pilot trainees at the flight school.
The best measure of a pt 141 flight academy is its LOCAL clientele, not the excessive amount of foreign students. "The students who choose these schools bear some responsibility". The information and resources available on the internet regarding flight schools is extensive and ample research should have been done before plunking down tens of thousands of dollars of your parents finances.
Furthermore, the school has several airline logos on its website. Those airlines have no obligation of recruitment unless there is a cadet-pilot agreement between the airline and pilot trainee. If you do have a written agreement with KFA, then mail them at Contact Us (http://www.theubgroup.com/contactus.html)

Spoonfeed to get your money back:

1. File a class action lawsuit.
2. File a report with
Fresno: Home (http://cencal.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=25&id=7b3b2718-cf39-4358-ab5d-718988e3e732)
3. Don't be intimidated by these crooks telling you that they have political and business contacts in your native country.
4. If you're going to become a Professional Pilot, than stop whining and research and fight for your money. No one is going to spoon feed you in this industry.
5. Contact the FAA with your complaints
FAA - Home (http://www.faa.gov/)
6. Contact the local government officials in Atwater, CA
City of Atwater (http://www.atwater.org/)
7. Contact the IRS.
Internal Revenue Service (http://www.irs.gov/)

[TopTup]

Shuchim...

Regarding the title of your post, ie your "dreams have been killed".... If that is all it takes to remove your passion to fly then you need to have a long hard look at your career vocation.

You have received some excellant advice from some people to your post.

I find it so difficult to fathom (if I may read between the lines, and correct me if I'm wrong) that you seem to believe it is your RIGHT to be GIVEN this job. No need to earn it. No need to build experience up. It seems you went to a sausage factory flying school on a half baked promise of free coffee at FL360. And, from others' responses this flying school does not have a good history, nor did it ever (?).

Why not take your shiney new CPL and go and do some freight, scenic, instructing, etc.... and build up some experience until the opportunity presents itself again. Go and study for your ATP(L) subjects!

"When I was a young boy......" (sorry to have to use that term!) pilots would have over 1000 hrs on a single engine piston before getting to look at a twin; then 2500 - 3000 hrs (1000 hrs PIC) before looking at a turbo prop, and 4000 hrs TT before getting the chance to interview for a jet job, then8 out of 10 would be rejected. It seems on the sub continent a culture of job-by-right in aviation has flourished. Now the bubble is bursting.

Get in a car and start driving to airfield after airfield and BEG for work on any aircraft you can and build your hours. It'll be tough, but the rewards endless.

Welcome to aviation. Do your research before getting involved with anything in this industry. Learn to make the best of the bad times and enjoy the good.

Best of luck.

PS: Sorry to point it out but you may need to work on your English if the grammer from your post is any indication.

[getsetgo]

such things happened in past also.
collecting data on the issue.
any trainee,before going to any flying school, must have a representative in the respective country to take up case with the appropriate authorities.
trainees are lucky at least they had return ticket to comeback.
HR says my hands are full , bags are too full.

[getsetgo]

flightnight good show keep it up:ok:

[getsetgo]

Posted by MDDOG earlier
............................................................ ...................
Moreover, as a flight Instructor working at a busy flight school in the late 90's in the Southern California area, over a period of 1 year there were 5 fatal accidents ALL involving either European or Indian students..
............................................................ .....................................

I presume

In this scenario flying school pick trainees who had no representative in USA.
They pick 5 a/c” s which were due for C of A.
Grounding an airplane for C of A is very expensive.
Full money of the course paid by trainees.
Insured a/c”s.
After crash aircraft parts fetching higher price than the a/c.
Parking charges saved.
Parking lots saved.
Flying school made big chunk in one year over the dead bodies.
And why FAA could not go beyond routine enquiry after crash, or made some recommendations for safety after the first crash because inquiry finished looking at the metal on ground.
These trainees had no representative to go to FAA and ask for detailed enquiry and look in to other aspects leading to such events.
FAA could have gone beyond the wall and done justice with the flying school provided someone had followed it up.

[powerstall]

IMHO,

the bottomline was if they got their CPL license... they expect to be shown their brand spanking new shiny jet.... most of them had the illusion that they are already cut out to fly jets... no need for flight hours and valuable experience... "just give me my right seat" was the mind set... now that the price of ATF is rising by the day, almost all airlines are directly affected by this and need to trim up operations... a lot of flyboys will be left out in the dark... :(

[getsetgo]

powerstall
yes every body is worried about the seat.
i donot think you should be worried about others seat.
and comparing your self to the levels of cpl:{

[flightknight]

Its interesting that there has'nt been a whimper from any of the "brave" future aviators who posted their grieviance on this forum.
Anyways ...more spoonfeed, we just can't sing you'll koombayaah !!!!

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/10/fraud.pdf

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/php/a_report.php

[powerstall]

getsetgo,

nice one, i didn't say i was worried about the indian cpl's / co-pilots seats, who cares about them, what i'm worried about are the expat fo's flying there in curry land. :ok:

glad to be out of there before the bubble bursts! :E

[Dagar]

Powerstall:yuk:,your user id says it all,and what land are you from????show some respect,as you know what goes around comes around.

[powerstall]

Dagar,

let me ask you one thing, have you flown in the land that i am referring to, i suggest you get for yourself firsthand experience (the ones i had and a bunch of the guys here) and walk the walk and then talk the talk... :=

[Norm Sanson]

I think you mean "grammar"

[Kingfisher320]

Call Mallya himself and tell him, what a looser he is.

[flightknight]

Is it true that this "prince" fellow has runaway from the USA ?. Anybody out there pursuing this crook or have you'll just given up because its just your parents hard earned money.

[getsetgo]

power stall
............................................................ .........................

nice one, i didn't say i was worried about the indian cpl's / co-pilots seats, who cares about them, what i'm worried about are the expat fo's flying there in curry land. :ok:

glad to be out of there before the bubble bursts! :E
............................................................ .............................
there is a saying falling from sky and stuck on treetop
and seeing bubbles from tamrind tree........
you can see bubble but you wont get curry there

good luck



http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=4217441)

[rcl7700]

When I had $1,000 USD left in my account and was waiting for the Oakland FSDO to give me a date for my CFI Checkride my school shut down. It sucked. Lots of people lost a whole lot more than $1,000. Lots of lawsuits, anger, tears, etc. After that banks came up with a credit card-type loan system. Students would swipe their card to pay for flights and then their loan money would be transfered from the bank to the school, never before. Good system. I thought most places had switched to that. It is incredible how shaddy flight schools can be.

Good luck to those affected. Everybody made it after the collapse, I'm sure the same with happen here.

rcl

[denlopviper]

i have $2000 with the school. too bad i came to know about the schools reputation too late. i did do some research before selecting the school. i guess the $10k ATP course brought me in (not to mention the incresing price of the dollar which led to a somewhat speedy decision). they were offering us CFI/II and frozen ATPL for $10,000, and then were offering to keep us untill we got to the 1500 hour mark through instructing at the school. ofcourse there was no pay as such, the only thing we were getting in return was free accomodation at the school. im not complaining, anything that gets me experience, i'll do it.

2Gs is still alot in our money considering the exchange rate is US$1 = Pakistani Rupees 70.15


should have gone to PEA :ugh::mad:


PS. anyone know of any school which offers an arangement such as where we can compensate for the course fees/flying charges through instructing at their school? because now im $3000 short :(

[flightknight]

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=b085ceb55c5069d63908eecfee8f202 e

How could anyone trust this character ?. Yeah ! he's going to file bankruptcy after transferring all the money to a third world country. I guess he will use the incorporation status loophole to absolve himself from personal liability.
I am not sure if KINGFISHER is liable for promoting this flightschool in INDIA. They do have an office in California under United Breweries. Maybe, some of the students should contact them about compensation since they are worth over a billion dollars.
"keep him on the run"

[flightknight]

The Hindu : Karnataka / Bangalore News : American aviation school lands in Bangalore (http://www.hindu.com/2007/03/09/stories/2007030915900500.htm)

andhracafe.com - American Aviation recruitment centre in Hyderabad (http://www.andhracafe.com/index.php?m=show&id=18949)

The Peninsula On-line: Qatar's leading English Daily (http://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/Display_news.asp?section=World_News&subsection=India&month=March2007&file=World_News2007030993712.xml)

Aviation India: Careers: American School of Aviation opens recruitment centre in Hyderabad (http://indianaviationnews.net/careers/2007/02/american-school-of-aviation-opens.html)