Working in Italy

[Billywizz]

Has anyone got any experience of working in the helicopter industry in Italy?
Any different rules and regs?, Special Insurance reqd stuff like that would be greatly appreciated. thanks.

[Non-PC Plod]

Not sure about the actual operations side, but be prepared for some long and frustrating waits if you ever have to deal with ENAC, and more bureaucracy than you can shake a stick at anywhere you go.

[Billywizz]

Not surprised at the bureaucracy, that goes without saying in Italy.:ugh:

[maeroda]

Hello BillyW,

Although I'm US native I work in Italy as pilot sisce 1998.

In Italy JAR-OPS 3 and FCL 2 is used to discipline helo ops nationwide.
It is Agusta's playground, you will find all them flying in hems and offshore.
Singles are Eurocopter 350 family.
Basicaly the market is 50% hems, 10% offshore, 30% firefighting, 10% flight school.
Hems bases are 40 all with twins, 10 are H24 all with two pilots each 12 hours of duty.
Hems pilots like me usually work on 7/7 skedule, 12 to 13 work hours per day (depending of season), maximum 2000 work hours/year, maximum 183 working days/year.
Hems & OS is operated by employers like Elilario, Elilombarda, Airgreen, Elifriulia, Elidolomiti, Helitalia flying 109, 139, 412, few 117, 145 & 135's.
Firefighting is mostly AS350 job from Air Service, Eliwork, and a number of small operators and 7 European Air Cranes S64 E's.
95% of employment contracts are in white (salary, rests, taxes payed by employer ecc.); monthly salary are 1500€ for newbes, 2300€ firefighting pilots and FI, 2700€ for FO in hems & OS, 3500€ for young captains in multi crew.
All is disciplined by the National Contract for Helicopter Pilots in force since 1998.
As long as I know insurance matters here is not as strict as overseas.
Say that if you don't have incident record you can work fine depending of your skills.
Market is very closed to non-italian speaking people; that's why is stabile and static.

What else?
Ah, Bureaucracy? What is this???:}

Basic rule of rules: "italian governments make laws, italian people make ways to avoid them".

Ciao

Maeroda

[Bravo73]

Maeroda,

I noticed your breakdown of the Italian market. Is the onshore charter market in Italy really as small as you imply?

I don't know the exact numbers but I would make a educated guess that in the UK, there are as many charter or corporate aircraft as Police or HEMS aircraft.


Just wondering...

[maeroda]

hello Bravo73, nice to meet you,

about onshore charter market it is something metaphisical, maybe something near 40 helicopters in a nation with 56 million people.
There is lot of people having much money to buy a 109 Grand but less people willing to have I- letters on their fuselages due to high income taxes.:yuk:
Say that YES there is a market but NO there isn't the market!!:ugh:
Something is goin to move in the next few years due to the Milan Expo skeduled in 2015.
You can bet many rich people involved in all that will be purchasing 109's and asking nothern helicopter operators to take care of their new machines.....
This will have some benefit effect on pilots & engeniers occupation.:)

ciao

Maeroda

[TooradinPilots]

Hi Maeroda ,

Is there a big call for pilots in Italy. Coming from an Italian background and speaking a bit of Italian, I would be interested in the employment situation....

Regards

[maeroda]

Hello TP,
There is a certain need of young pilots in hems and OS market due to new european regs regarding 2000 working hours/year limit.
Big companies are hiring 300hours newbees as copilots with 1000€ entry salary......:ugh:
As long as I know there is some new ENI contracts for OS market in the north sea and the biggest company Elilario needs FO's.

Also we are now starting the renewal of the national helicopter pilots contract......expired in 2004:D......blood will flow!

ciao

Maeroda

[Billywizz]

Thanks for the breakdown maeroda, some interesting info esp the salaries. Many thanks

[maeroda]

As I said 14 months salary ranges are 1500€ for newbes, 2300€ firefighting pilots and FI, 2700€ for FO in hems & OS, 3500€ for young captains in multi crew, 4300€ for experienced Captains and very special skilled pilots (eg. long line in high mountain).
Corporate pilots can gain more of hems captains but their contracts are unknowed papers.:hmm:

All figures are tax paid in Italy (income tax could be as much as 44%).

Do you want to apply?:)


Ciao

maeroda

[liftman]

Maeroda you semme to know very well italian situation...I am italian too and I have some question about helicopter job transiting from fixed wing, can I send you a PM?

[maeroda]

Hello Liftman,

I like your photos at airplane-pictures.

Feel free to contact me in PM althorough it would be unfare to exclude the most from knowledge about our market......:confused:

Ciao

Maeroda

[liftman]

Thanks for the photo!

Ok, I will post my question here:

I am fixed wing commercial, 2000TT with 1500 IFR on jet, thinking about getting an helicopter licence.

As for your knowledge, do you think my fixed wing experience could be helpful in finding a job with an italian operator or it is useless?

I am 35, too old? What are real chanches for me getting an helicopter job in Italy?

TKS

[maeroda]

Liftman,

IMHO considering age 35 no way your fixed wing experience could be considered untill you don't are fully released as professional in the helicopter market.
In less words if you are seeking an employment CPL+IR JAR and 300 hours on rotorcraft are enought. Considering your age left seat would be your office for a while.
If you are looking for THE employment (say PIC) you have to be at least ATPL(H)+ IR and no less than 2000 hours in multi engine rotorcraft.:oh:

I understand the situation seems to be unfare for thoose having some good numbers as you could be, flying in Italy it is no as much easy as in USA and recent experience with people raised up overseas and returned back at motherhome without the right attitude stands there with all his load.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Anyway although you can try your way in USA and achieve full satisfaction, why you should return to motherhome after having left it??

maeroda

[tottigol]

Quote Maeroda
"flying in Italy it is no as much easy as in USA and recent experience with people raised up overseas and returned back at motherhome without the right attitude stands there with all his load.":eek:

"Anyway although you can try your way in USA and achieve full satisfaction, why you should return to motherhome after having left it??":hmm:




Being familiar with pretty much everyone who counts in the industry, and knowing how most of the Operators run their pilots' shifts, can you explain us what "the right attitude is"?

Oh, by the way last time I checked 183x12=2196.:=

Thanks for the '139 pictures Maeroda, is that the Milano ship?

[Geoffersincornwall]

Tottigol - methinks you misread maeroda's interesting contribution.

12 - hour shifts
7 on-7 off
Max 183 working days in a year

.......happy?????

:ok:

G

[tottigol]

Yes of course, I must agree, it's a maximum of 2000 hrs duty time or 183 days per year. ;)
I possibly allowed the best of me to be taken aback by some of Maeroda's other statements and read too much into it.
Happy now.

A fairly thorough and correct presentation regarding the state of the industry in the old Country.

[maeroda]

Tottigol (tifi per la maggica??),

right attitude: temperance, decisiveness, never lose one's temper or fall in submission in front of any state rappresentative, a very very huge aviation culture (bigger than Enac guys), awareness, knowledge of the latin way to get to target by deceiving others when you need it.
In the other hand you may be also easy-going person saying things without saying nothing.
BTW this is all you need to live in a country without real law control.

Maeroda