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BYALPHAINDIA
22nd Jun 2008, 13:56
A 19 year old from Yorkshire has just passed out at Oxford with a Fr ATPL.

Joshua Hubbard achieved 99% in his theory examinations to go on and achieve his ultimate ambition.

Joshua left school at 16 with 4 A Levels & 2 AS Levels.

Although only 19, He would now be able to take the controls of a multi million pound jet, And Would have to be 21 to drive a HGV or a Bus.

His father paid for some of the training at the LBA Airport.

Joshua has already applied for some jobs, including Jet 2 which is based not far from his home.

Full story @ telegraphandargus.co.uk


Well Done & Good luck.:D:D:ok:

99jolegg
22nd Jun 2008, 14:11
Talented guy.

How did he manage 4 A levels and 2 AS levels by 16? That's the age people finish their GCSEs. If that's true, he must have started his GCSEs at the age of 12, i.e. first year of senior school and started his A levels at the age of 14. Very talented!

BerksFlyer
22nd Jun 2008, 14:12
How did he manage to leave with A levels at age 16? That's GCSE year and A levels would take an extra 2 years past that. So either he's an extremely capable lad (99% average implies that) or he left at 18 like everyone else.

We've had a thread about someone who flew 737s aged 19 before, though his Dad was the chief pilot, so it got a mixed reception on here.

I would have thought Oxford passes out many 19 year olds to be honest?

He does sound very talented though with that average and if he took GCSEs and A levels early. Certainly not your average intellect.

Wilton Shagpile
22nd Jun 2008, 14:14
Call me pedantic but he doesn't have an ATPL....just a CPL and IR.

You only need to be 18 to hold either of these qualifications so I'm not that impressed! He won't be able to hold an ATPL till he's 21 AFAIK.

It is tough to get through all the stuff though so he has done well but he avoided the hardest part (paying for it)...

I wonder if his Dad attended the "passing out" parade..

EpsilonVaz
22nd Jun 2008, 14:39
I know someone who was 18 when he gained his CPL/IR (he also uses this forum). I am sure there are many more out there.

SparksFlyHigh
22nd Jun 2008, 14:44
There is no way that at that age and with those qualifications that he has ever done more than a small part time job in his life, which would suggest that "some" of the money that his dad paid was closer to £70,000.

In which case it really takes some of the wow factor out of this. If my dad gave me 70,000 today i would have an atpl by this time next year aged 19 and a half.

Dane-Ger
22nd Jun 2008, 14:58
"There is no way that at that age and with those qualifications that he has ever done more than a small part time job in his life, which would suggest that "some" of the money that his dad paid was closer to £70,000"

Maybe he inherited it? No matter what, he has shown that he can apply himself by achieving 99% in his ATPL's. Well done, it's certainly more than a lot of 19 year olds have achieved.

David Horn
22nd Jun 2008, 15:30
Congratulations to him. I can't quite understand the reasoning behind many people on this board that the money to pay for training should be earned solely through hard graft. I completely agree that working for the money tends to make you a much more mature and well-rounded individual, but that's just one side of the coin.

This shouldn't be the be-all and end-all when considering the situation. How many people who did work like crazy to pay their own way through their training would opt to do it over again, had the money been available from (for example) an inheritance? Not that many, I guess.

What about the massive bank loans most people in training have hanging over their heads, regardless of whether they got the first chunk of money through hard graft or parental help? If that's not a motivation to do well, I can't really think what is.

Just my 2p, but I think there can be way too much of a holier than thou attitude on here. Let this guy enjoy his success - the very fact he's succeeded proves he's earned it.

Jet22
22nd Jun 2008, 15:34
Read about him yesterady in the T'n'A at my nannas. It said something like he left school with 4 A-Levels and 2 AS Levels aswell as 10 GSCE'S. For those of you who know the area he is from thackley bradford.

Mum went yesterday 'Oh you can do that'. I replied 'Can i have £70,000 then please' Got one of them looks:*

perthtrained
22nd Jun 2008, 16:04
Sadly the aviation industry does'nt see fit to investing in training these days, it's not profitable we're told!! If this lad was keen to fly for a living and his family are in a position to help, then the best of luck to him. He sounds just the sort to have been accepted in Hamble years ago.

daria-ox
22nd Jun 2008, 16:53
To be honest , I'm not really suprised. I'm going to be 18 when I'll gain my CPL + IR, I only have GCSE's and HNC Travel & Tourism. I wouldn't be able to get the HNC if I didn't go to school early. Maybe that's the reason for his A levels, etc. A lot of people went and still go to school early, and they finish early too.

There's loads of people at the age 18/19 with a fATPL, so it's not that suprising ..

bucket_and_spade
22nd Jun 2008, 16:58
He's actaully not that unique - on average, there's a few who tend to graduate from each OAA course at the same age.

Not taking anything away from him of course - his GS average beats mine!

B&S

MMEMatty
22nd Jun 2008, 17:04
Wasn't there a 21 year old BA Captain a few years ago?

BerksFlyer
22nd Jun 2008, 17:17
He was 23 or 24 and he was at GB Airways, so i assume he's now at easyJet?

MMEMatty
22nd Jun 2008, 17:22
Sorry, yes GB Airways (well its kinda BA (tin hat on!)). I heard he in the 777 now for BA Mainline?

CPL/IR at 19 mind is a good achievement, however you got it...

(Edited to Say...)

CPL/IR is good achievement, whatever age you get it...:ok:

Mikehotel152
22nd Jun 2008, 18:22
All credit and congratulations to an evidently single-minded young man who must have worked very hard for so much of his young life to get such good grades and then do the ATPL exams, CPL and IR as quickly as possible. He's now in an enviable position and will have a very long career in Aviation, if that's what he truly wants.

But let's put this into context.

A-levels these days are far easier than they used to be (or is anyone really supposed to believe that the average student these days is so much more hardworking and/or brighter than previous generations?); the ATPL involved learning a lot of interesting and technical stuff but it's not difficult if you put the time in; and the main pre-requisite to getting the fATPL is money, not talent.

Now, that doesn't mean that there are not many bright, talented pilots out there who might excel in other fields. There most certainly are. But seeing as most moderately intelligent people could achieved the CPL/IR at 19 given the right backing and single minded focus, perhaps we shouldn't overdo the praise!!! Put it this way, you're flying to Mumbai with this chap siting next to you: what would you talk to him about apart from flying?

A bit of Devil's Advocate in the above....:E

porridge
22nd Jun 2008, 18:54
Whilst not diminishing the achievements of this youngster - I don't think he is alone. At our school we have just had a 19 year old pass fATPL AND his instructors rating in the last couple of months! Perhaps our lad maybe the youngest to get all 3? Oh and BTW 1st attempt on all 3 too!

corsair
22nd Jun 2008, 19:18
Well done to him. Just hope he isn't sick of he job aged 29 :) As for getting the exams all done at an early age. It's not uncommon. Best time to do them when you're young and eager.

My wife did her school exams when she was 15 and was in college aged 16. She wasn't unique in her family either. I wish I was half as clever. Hopefully our son will inherit that side of the family's abilitys.

What people forget when they mention young pilots is that it's not really new. 18 year old Lancaster pilots were not rare in the RAF at one stage.

helimutt
22nd Jun 2008, 19:23
I love it when people state they have atpl's that young. So he has met all the requirements to be issued with an ATPL? No. He's passed the exams and gotten himself a CPL? he still has some way to go for ATPL issue doesn't he?
:uhoh:

Adios
22nd Jun 2008, 20:17
He is unique in the fact that he got very high marks in GS. There's nothing unique about doing the course at that age. He's unique in that the press covered it, but many 19 YOs finish quietly every month at a lot of FTOs.

XL319
22nd Jun 2008, 22:55
well done to him for doing so well

However I feel it p****s a lot of people off when people come on here stating this.....

Other people have tried hard getting this golden opportunity and maybe taken them a long time in doing so (i.e. not having well off parents). A lot of people have to fund this training themselves and work hard for it. Maybe these people would have done well if they had the chance earlier.

My point is....just because someone passed his training at 18/19 dosent make him a better pilot than someone who is in his late 20's/30's!!

Mikehotel152
23rd Jun 2008, 07:36
Too true XL319! :ok:

Have you ever met a 15 year old who doesn't think they're an adult or 18 year olds who don't know it all? Statistics regularly show that young men aged 17-24 are the prime cause of road traffic accidents. IMHO this is because they have the above average motor skills and reactions to match their raging and over-bubbling hormones, but not the maturity and experience to curb those instincts.

It's embarassing sounding like Victor Meldrew, but people in their teens and early twenties are simply lacking in an essential ingredient to making decisions under pressure - specifically, life experience. I honestly wouldn't feel as safe flying with a 19 year old at the sharp end as I would with a 30 year old with the same flying hours. I bet most of the travelling public would feel the same.

And as for what Adios said about GS marks, what a load of bananas. Anyone with access to the Question Bank ought to be getting average grades in the 90 percentile without burning the midnight oil. Put the effort in and getting close to 100% for each exam is very achievable. This young guy is at an age where academic learning is at its easiest, he was clearly very focused, and I bet he wasn't out clubbing most nights like most of us were at his age!

altag
23rd Jun 2008, 14:56
Joshua has only one minor problem . . . at the present ..
When he starts turning on the aircraft yaw axis he irreparably start throwing up . .. . but he hold the ATPL frozen
:ugh:

only joking . . . .but . . .
at the end of the story . . . .
i don't mind about that and personally i'm not fascinated by the Aviation of Records -
bye

roll_over
23rd Jun 2008, 15:05
Well he must be really clever if he did 4 proper A levels at 15/16

Mikehotel152
23rd Jun 2008, 21:51
roll_overWell he must be really clever if he did 4 proper A levels at 15/16


Hmmmm, I'd agree that you would have to be above average to get those grades at 16, but with A-Levels easier these days I don't think it marks him as some kind of a genius. :rolleyes:

I stand to be corrected, but it's usually only Public Schools (i.e. fee-paying privately owned schools) who allow kids to take A-Levels early and this has always happened, so I presume that's what this kid did. The benefits of an expensive education huh?

Anyway, getting good grades at A-level and being a good pilot are two different things!!! I think you'll find that most good pilots aren't 'nerdy'!

BerksFlyer
23rd Jun 2008, 22:04
Mikehotel152,

I can't help but feel you under estimate the difficulty of 'todays' A levels. It's so frustrating that the media make it out as if they are literally a piece of p*ss. The grade boundaries are still done in relation to the average student and so anyone who does well does well because they got a good mark compared to the average mark. No average 15/16 year old would be able to get a good grade in an A level exam, and usually they would be doing GCSEs at that age. So provided the article is reliable, he certainly isn't of average intellect.

Regardless of that, of course exam results have absolutely no bearing on how good a pilot you are.

benish
23rd Jun 2008, 23:05
I KNOW JOSH AT A PERSONAL LEVEL AND I ALSO ATTENDED BOTH THE SCHOOLS HE HAS BEEN AT. ALSO I WAS TAUGHT BY HIS MOTHER!
MORE TO THE POINT, JOSH GOT A LEVELS IN PHYSICS AND MATHS AND OTHERS WHEN HE WAS 18, NOT 16. SOMEONE HAS MIS-STATED THAT.

Hes a great guy, and is 2 years older than me, and was in my sisters group of mates. He managed to be selcted into OAT out of 6 people, all with degrees (I think). He achieved OATs best ever pass rate for IR and he is one of the youngest people to graduate with a fATPL because of the time of year when his birthday falls. (think that of all 6 formers that go on to OAT his birthday comes around late in the year, most of the others come sooner).

Although he was not funded by his father, he recieved help securing a loan, but he owes it all back. Why cant someone get help from family to make a dream come true? Family are there to offer support. Just because some of you guys couldnt find that support, doesnt mean others should be ridiculed for having it. I myself could borrow some money from my family, but not the full amount, so Im going to work myself there. No problem in borrowing from family what so ever. its like borrowing from a bank with no interest!

Day_Dreamer
23rd Jun 2008, 23:34
What are we all harping on about ?
There was a recent graduate from OAA who joined BA at 18 with fATPL.
Also there are several 19 year old's ex OAA and other establishments with fATPL on courses with airlines now. They may be 19 or 20 by the time they finish their line training. But at any age its no mean feat to be flying in the right seat of a modern jet, as it takes hard work and dedication to achieve that goal.
Good luck to this young man.
If he's that exceptional then he should get a job soon, maybe we will hear on the news that he's the youngest ...... etc etc etc.

All credit to those out there of ANY age who achieve their fATPL its no small thing.
Getting high grades or first time examination passes does not matter to some recruiters. The first time passes in the flight checks and 1st series IR are more important.
Finally the individuals personality matters when it come to maturity and "Can I sit next to him for X hours" is a major factor in the individual fitting into their organisation.
Good luck to all out there job hunting, take whatever is offered to you.
Get that foot on the first rung of the ladder, whatever the aircraft type.

Adios
23rd Jun 2008, 23:38
MikeHotel152,

So I'm peddling bananas, Josh is nerdy and all 18 YOs are know it alls? That's quite a broad brush you paint with.

If it's so easy, why are 99% averages almost never heard of? 94-95% is common, but 99% is unique and that's all I wrote. I guess if one is pedantic, then 99% is not unique, as the adjective implies only one instance. While I wouldn't attempt ATPL theory without a good question bank, there's still a lot of hard graft to be applied as well as some pretty severe time management constraints.

He obviously put in the effort, stayed focused, probably didn't party excessively. Does that sound like a typical nerdy 18 YO or someone who values hard graft and recognizes the seriousness of a £75K investment? He is not unique in this, as there are dozens of sub 20 YOs and even more older students doing the same at FTOs all across Europe.

Maybe you should meet him before judging him so harshly. I was almost ready to agree with you on the value of life experience. In fact, I agree with much of what you write on a broad range of topics, but tossing out stereotypical cliches is not what I would expect these lessons of life experience would lead one to do.

Mikehotel152
24th Jun 2008, 07:21
Nothing wrong with peddling Bananas. They're a great source of energy. ;)

I take your point Adios. I was deliberately painting with a broad brush to make a point. I don't know Josh and he is probably a very nice, friendly chap. I think I said this in a previous post (unless I deleted it while editing). However, it appears from what others have said that he didn't do all his A-Levels at 16, so that changes the debate slightly. In any event, I agree that getting a top grade for the ATPL requires a great deal of effort. I put in a fair amount of effort too. I don't know what the average ATPL grade might be, but I do know from personal experience that you can get, say, 98% for Principles of Flight without mastering the subject or having a mathematical background. But it's certainly easier to get high grades when you're in your teens. Your brain absorbs things more quickly. I remember studying things in ATPL Meteorology earlier this year and suddenly remembering studying the same thing when I did my Geography Degree in the late 90s. I sat there amazed, recalling that I had understood it all back then, but now, 10 years on I couldn't get my head around it! :}

I have no idea whether this young guy values the huge investment he's making in his chosen career path. I haven't passed judgment on him in that respect. Hell, I invested a lot of money in becoming a lawyer and I've chosen to leave that profession.

I guess I come to this debate from the prospective of someone who made decisions to embark on a particular career at the same age as Josh, invested a lot of money and effort, and ultimately decided that it wasn't for me in the long term. I see so many guys aged 20/21 doing their ATPL and I wonder how many have really sat down and looked at themselves and what they want. Despite being a pretty sensible, well-rounded guy, I made stupid decisions when I was younger. I can honestly say that I matured more between the ages of 21 and 25 than I did between 16 and 21.

Berksflyer - I think you'll find I said he was clearly of above average intellect and must have worked very hard. All credit to him. My point, and one which I've been debating with Adios, is that I don't think you have to be a genius to achieve what this guy has achieved. If you aren't a genius, then, IMHO, putting so much effort into such a narrow career path, at such a young age, means that you miss out on the broader picture. To use the tired metaphor: you are putting all your eggs in one basket. You're also missing out on so much of the fun of being young. There's no rush to get into the right-hand seat of a jet!



PS: If I had my time again, I would still go to University and then turn to flying training.

Wee Weasley Welshman
24th Jun 2008, 08:15
I remember Aer Lingus sending us a sponsored cadet down to Jerez who was turning 17 on the day his course started. I had stopped instructing and joined an airline by the time he was due to graduate but I think he was going to be something like 18yrs and one month when he was due to complete his CPL/IR Frzn ATPL course.

Lets face it - we has teenagers in Spitfires in the Battle of Britain.

WWW

Re-Heat
24th Jun 2008, 08:29
Half this thread sounds like sour grapes from those who had to wait until they were older to train.

Stationair8
24th Jun 2008, 08:41
Good effort by the young bloke, sounds like a few sour grapes by the pprune experts who are could be's or would be's but you get that in the big games!

nosewheelfirst
24th Jun 2008, 08:42
sounds like 24% too much effort :}

Mikehotel152
24th Jun 2008, 08:44
Re-Heat - Just as WWW is warning that spending £70k on an Integrated Course in the present economic slowdown is a risk, I think making a huge financial and emotional investment in a particular career at 19 is a risk. And despite what you may think, my thoughts and 'advice' are not motivated by sour grapes.

ShyTorque
24th Jun 2008, 09:12
The bloke's obviously far too clever to be a pilot. ;)

Well done to him.

1013 with altsel
24th Jun 2008, 11:14
well done to him, however he got the Fatpl! But now the hardest part of all is to come! Finding a job!

SparksFlyHigh
24th Jun 2008, 16:53
I'm 18 and jealous, which no-one can complain about. Anyway, i dont have work till 9am :rolleyes:

scott5988
24th Jun 2008, 18:40
Are you sure he is the youngest???


I no of a 18/19 year old from guernsey whos a f/o for flybe!!

BerksFlyer
24th Jun 2008, 19:47
I'm sure no one's knocking the lad, he's clearly determined and enthusiastic, but the thing here is a classic example of the media not having a clue about how things work in the airline industry. It is not that special to have an fATPL at 19, and there are many who actually are flying with airlines at this age. The reason why there's a discussion on here is because a newspaper has made it out as if the achievement is unique, when clearly it isn't. But then again, the general public share the media's, dare I say, ignorace about the airline industry and pilots inparticular, so of course these people aren't on our level when it comes to commenting on how much of an achievement it is to be qualified at a young age. The lad's unfortunate in a way that his story made it into a local paper.

Flashdance9
24th Jun 2008, 20:54
There aren’t newspaper editors crawling their way through every flight school in the country trying to find a 'top gun' hyped story about a student. I’m guessing Oxford didn’t send out a press release, so he or one of his family or friends got the story sent into his local newspaper. Good on him I say. Bit of free marketing, all helps when trying to find a job! (it’s called taking the initiative- something some of the readers on here have no understanding of). Ok, so clearly some of the facts are misleading and it’s been hyped up a bit by the press, big deal.

But, he's a young person, clearly worked hard and achieved alot (like most students) and a story like this being read by folk in his local town will find it quite impressive and may even inspire other younger people to follow in his footsteps into aviation (I reserve caution however, as personally I think going into it at 17/18 is too young and perhaps sends out the wrong message to young people...).

When most of the press about young people nowadays is about hoodies, stabbings etc, a story about a young person achieving something like this IS extremely positive and beats all those slumped in front of their computers getting overly jealous that some smart 18 yr old got a licence before them, went to a well known school and got themselves in the paper!

And yes like others have said, he will only have proven himself once he gets a job!

The lad's unfortunate in a way that his story made it into a local paper.

He's only unfortunate that someone posted it on Pprune . :ugh:


Perhaps Josh should read this news story about; "Mr Gardner, who turned 20 in December, is thought to be the youngest passenger pilot in the country."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-507997/Britains-youngest-airline-pilot-meet-20-year-old-flies-holiday-jets-sun.html

BerksFlyer
24th Jun 2008, 23:28
Flashdance,

You're right, it's unfortunate that it was posted here. Though if there was no paper story, it would never have happened! Criticism here has come about because the paper chose to write a story about him, which makes people on here think 'why's he getting attention, he's not unique'. So that's why he's unfortunate in a way. Much like the one in the linked story, if you don't remember the thread on here about him. He was criticised because his dad was chief pilot with Titan and, frankly, anyone willing could be in the right hand seat at such a young age with that advantage. So when people like that get attention, it's unfair on those who aren't so lucky. Afterall, everyone has to get the same licences. I'm not taking it away from anyone, we just play the hand we're dealt. But that doesn't mean that because you've been dealt a good one you should get extra attention, which those who aren't so fortunate, would never get.

Stationair8
25th Jun 2008, 09:03
Downside having to drive into the work carpark with "P" plates on the car, or worse getting mum to drive you to work because you can't hold a drivers licence but you can legally fly aeroplane's.

Upside think of all the hosties, that a 19 year old could have his wicked way with!!