Pumas flying with only one engine fitted?

[Flag Track]

Heard yonks ago that the Portuguese/Egyptians/Indonesians (Add nationality to taste) had only one donk with a concrete block on't other side as ballast. Is this an urban myth or spoof?

[ShyTorque]

You mean the story about the request to the RAF, from the Portugese, for the loan of a spare engine? So they could make it twin engined to fly the Pope?

Never heard it....... ;)

[spinwing]

Mmmmmm `....

"A load of bollocks"

:E

[VfrpilotPB/2]

Seems like Spinwing has it in a Nutshell!!.....:D

[jayteeto]

I know an ex-AAC pilot who joined the RAF, starting one engine and failing to get the second started. He completed his task on one engine...... or was that a rumour also.... ;)

[Salusa]

Bit like the OH-6 Pilot in Vietnam who had one blade shot up on the ground decided to remove its oppo and then flew out on just two blades.

Maybe the same guy graduated onto Puma's?

[the beater]

Maybe the same guy graduated onto Puma's?

Puma's what?

[darrenphughes]

Maybe the same guy graduated onto Puma's?

Puma's what?


Did you just pick up on the fact that he used an apostrophe where he shouldn't have? Thats just plain picky!!!:hmm:

[Robbo Jock]

Thats just plain picky

I think you'll find it's "that's" :}

[bolkow]

I am sure its perfectly true and contrary top popular perception probably increases engine power by 50% over just having its original two engines fitted in place of the concrete on one side.:ugh::ugh:

[affluent boss]

Robbo Jock, A taxi Driver in Southampton was recently denied the renewal of his taxi Driver's permit because his spelling in the English language was not very good. I wonder if your relations work for the Southampton Council.

[oldbeefer]

.........................................

[spinwing]

Mmmmmmm ....

What we did used to do in Pumas on Loooooooong Ferry flights is "Idle" one donk (or if you were brave/silly enough shut it down) to improve the sfc for increased endurance ...perhaps this is what is being alluded too ????

:eek:

[darrenphughes]

I think you'll find it's "that's" :}

Alright, you got me there. You can't expect an Irish guy to have a proper grasp of the English language!! I'm gonna stop typing now for fear of making more mistakes!!:(

[Robbo Jock]

Sorry. Just couldn't resist! :)

[HeliComparator]

spinwing, if you idle one engine your sfc is far worse than on 2 engines. The only option if you are short of fuel is to shut it down (pref climb to a height at which you would have time to restart it in auto!)

HC

[ShyTorque]

I concur that idling one engine for extra endurance is false logic. All the fuel into the idling engine goes to waste running the compressor and accessories and certainly with a Turmo that's a lot of fuel wasted, especially as the alternators run off the MGB anyway. :=

Single engined flight can be more efficient, certainly for endurance but possibly not for a transit, subject to the prevailing wind (the reduced max IAS results in a longer airborne time).

[ericferret]

Many years ago a Bond BO 105 lost an engine while engaged on lighthouse work and ended up marooned on the helideck. The crew of one pilot and one engineer gutted the aircraft of everything it was possible to remove and flew off single engined.

Raised a lot of eyebrows and questions were asked in the house but it worked.

[ShyTorque]

Once had to ferry a Puma single engine from Caye Chapel, Belize back to Airport camp. Of course, we needed to get the AOC's permission to do it. But that was very easy as he was one of those marooned on the island.

It never officially came out in the wash but every RAF pilot, SH and Harrier, was at the barbeque on the island so everyone was stuck there. The Bona mates (all of them) had arrived at the party by speedboat but the steering gear broke as they tried to leave and the boat would only go round in circles. They were authorised for a lift back in the Puma but then one of the engines wouldn't start.... :O

We came back in the dark with a two engined one and everyone got home eventually. ;)

[topendtorque]

A taxi Driver in Southampton was recently denied the renewal of his taxi Driver's permit because his spelling in the English language was not very good. I wonder if your relations work for the Southampton Council.

Reminds me of an Indian sounding gentleman that I spoke to recently whilst reporting a problem with my - other - telephone.

you may all have spoken to him as well.

It seems he got his job by suitably responding to the question, Now saah, please compose a sentence with the words green, pink and yellow in it?

The rest, you should know.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Surely no more than sound judgement is the arbiter here? If a single engined engine ferry can be carried out safely why not? As to carrying out an operational task in a one-donk twin then I'd want to know if a war was on before I thought seriously about it...

I had a starter quill failure in an As355 once, fortunately on a site on cliffs that subsequently, and very publically, fell into the N Sea. Leaving pax behind it was possible to hover taxi on one donk over the cliff and attain translational lift, flying away to refuel rotors running en route to base. Took a bit of cushion creep, but organised in advance, so what? Just had to realign my head to regard the twin as a single - so?

[Brian Abraham]

76A shutdown on off shore platform with an engine problem. Later flown home on its remaining "good" engine. NL told in a post some time ago of Sikorsky giving their OK to operators, probably on a one off approval basis.

[212man]

I know that a BHL Super Puma on UN contract in Liberia had problems starting once shutdown away in theathre. The choice was fly back on one engine, or become machette practice. I think the single engine option came out tops!!!

[JimL]

Under EASA, such operations can only be conducted on a 'Permit to Fly' basis (issued from Cologne). Logical really as any operation that takes the helicopter below its certification basis (or outside the MEL/MMEL) has associated - and somewhat unknown - risks.

Jim

[212man]

Under EASA, such operations can only be conducted on a 'Permit to Fly' basis (issued from Cologne). Logical really as any operation that takes the helicopter below its certification basis (or outside the MEL/MMEL) has associated - and somewhat unknown - risks.


Like I said Jim. I think the machete option came into play - which I'm not sure EASA or JAR any other reasonable option caters for. Johnny common sense rose to the fore...........;)

[unstable load]

I'm with 212man on this one!

If there is a likelyhood of getting shot,chopped,eaten or otherwise then one engine is great, thank you.

[Flag Track]

I remember someone doing a single engine transit from one of the FOBs, Christmas/New year in NI long ago or is my memory definitely shot?

[diginagain]

Flag Track, your memory is fine. Given the territory, the need to get the cab to the replacement engine, rather than the other way round, it's hardly surprising. As in 212man's example, not all of the natives are friendly, and the 'players' rather enjoyed crowing about downed airframes.

[zalt]

"NL told in a post some time ago of Sikorsky giving their OK to operators, probably on a one off approval basis."

Is this a joke?

[ShyTorque]

Under EASA, such operations can only be conducted on a 'Permit to Fly' basis (issued from Cologne). Logical really as any operation that takes the helicopter below its certification basis (or outside the MEL/MMEL) has associated - and somewhat unknown - risks.

Only the takeoff as far as TDP, or it's military equivalent, is unknown.

In the RAF, the limited power takeoff technique was routinely practiced, for this very eventuality.

[Fareastdriver]

"NL told in a post some time ago of Sikorsky giving their OK to operators, probably on a one off approval basis."

Is this a joke?

It must be. A 76A has enough trouble landing on one engine let alone taking off. Wind doesn’t help with planning because Sikorsky do not factor wind on their performance graphs.
Single engine recoveries I have known of or have done are the Belvedere, Wessex, Puma and Super Puma. At 30© zero wind the 332L1 can HOGE OEI with 2,000lbs fuel so there is no drama.
I know of one BHL 332 that had to shut down one engine to get to Bergen. Shutting down one or more engines for range was common on the Meteor, (one out of two), Nimrod, (two out of four) and B36, (six out of ten).

[Brian Abraham]

Is this a joke?
Nope. As I remember NL's post, the operators in question were in a jam and sought Sikorskys' approval, which they duly gave, probably with cautions, caveats and directions attached.
A 76A has enough trouble landing on one engine let alone taking off
You boys not Eurocopter salesmen?

[ShyTorque]

Having flown the S-76A+ for a few hours, I would say it has a performance to match many other single engined aircraft.

Provided it still has both engines running..... :)

[Brian Abraham]

Can remember struggling to get off the deck in a C with the OAT up heavens know where and thinking a 206 could do better. Still, an A seemed to be able to tote more payload than our C's when the OAT was up, and you could couple the A up with only one helipilot working, which was a bonus on a long day - unlike the C.

[Pontious a Pirate]

:O

:{ I have had two occasions where I have had to ferry a 212 on single engine, both at +40C ......

Both from offshore platforms, once with a governor problem (fixed platform) at 65NM and once with a starter problem (Jack up) at 25NM.

The first one was an issue because I had to get a once off ferry permit from my then company GM who was convinced that I had done something :ugh:and the second was a drilling issue because I was running with one engine on the helideck and blocking it!!!! Needless to say the operator wanted me gone ASAP :sad:

I was lucky with No.1 as there was a hell of a breeze blowing, i had around 80 feet to drop down and managed to get the thing airborne, minus my co-pilot :rolleyes: just within the greens and flew back to a gentle run to the pad on with no issues.

No.2 was a case of burning off the fuel to as little as possible, I think around 600 lbs and seeing what I could pull. There wasn't much wind but I managed not to hit the water and get back to land. The next problem was that there was no engineering back up so I ended up ferrying it back to the mainland early the next morning on 1 with a rather interesting cussion creep departure :):):)

As has been previously mentioned, if you are used to single engine ops then getting your head around single engine ferrying is not so bad.

Of course when your co-pilot decides to catch the next flight it does makes you wonder :E

I do love Bell! Big chunky blades, lots of lift :D:D:D